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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #383919 > unrolled thread

Questions for SRians

Started bykenseto <setoken@att.net>
First post2016-05-21 14:38 -0700
Last post2016-05-23 18:20 +0200
Articles 6 on this page of 86 — 13 participants

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Contents

  Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 14:38 -0700
    Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-21 20:56 -0500
      Re: Questions for SRians JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 10:54 -0700
      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 09:35 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-24 08:40 -0500
          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 07:21 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:30 -0500
          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 07:28 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:54 -0500
              Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-24 16:55 +0000
                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 13:55 -0500
                  Re: Questions for SRians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 14:59 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:19 -0700
              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 12:14 -0700
                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 14:18 -0500
                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 06:50 -0700
                    Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:40 -0500
                Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 13:00 -0700
                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 06:40 -0700
                    Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:46 -0500
                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 07:06 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 14:51 +0000
                          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:44 -0700
                            Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 14:05 -0700
                              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 04:51 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:29 -0700
                                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:33 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 08:53 -0700
                                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:23 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:56 -0500
                                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 13:01 -0700
                            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:12 -0500
                              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 05:14 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:00 -0500
                            Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 22:45 +0000
                              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 06:16 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:23 -0500
                                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:19 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:25 -0500
                                    Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:19 -0700
                                      Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 12:59 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:40 -0700
                                          Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 14:59 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:10 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 08:21 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 16:26 +0000
                                      Re: Questions for SRians "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:42 -0700
                                      Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:57 -0500
                                        Re: Questions for SRians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-26 13:28 -0400
                                          Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 13:33 -0500
                                            Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:16 -0700
                                              Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 16:54 -0500
                                        Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 17:36 +0000
                                          Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 10:50 -0700
                                            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 14:48 -0500
                                              Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 14:51 -0700
                                                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 17:03 -0500
                                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 13:53 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 14:06 -0700
                                          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:57 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-27 02:46 +0000
                              Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 10:11 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-27 11:17 -0500
                                  Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 16:11 -0700
                    Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:22 -0700
                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:46 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:15 -0700
                          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:35 -0700
                            Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 14:02 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 11:35 -0500
                          Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 11:41 -0500
                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:59 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:20 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-25 21:48 -0500
              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 06:09 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2016-05-25 00:04 +0200
      Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 16:47 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-27 12:03 -0500
          Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 14:34 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-29 22:04 -0500
              Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 22:26 -0700
                Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-06-03 10:42 -0500
    Re: Questions for SRians Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-05-22 14:20 +0200
      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 08:37 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-05-23 18:20 +0200

Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]


#384587

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-05-29 22:04 -0500
Message-ID<cPadnSiXXchbMNbKnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#384577
On 5/29/16 5/29/16   4:34 PM, Koobee Wublee wrote:
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 10:03:29 AM UTC-7, tjrob137 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 4:47:28 PM UTC-7, Koobee Wublee wrote:
>>> The Lorentz transform if written in the form using (dt, dx, dy, dz)
>>> instead of (t, x, y, z) should satisfy any non-inertial frames of
>>> references as well.
>>
>> You keep saying this. IT IS WRONG. Apparently you do not understand very
>> basic mathematics.
>>
>> Let me demonstrate how and why it is wrong. Consider the LT in two dimensions
>> between two sets of coordinates (x,t) and (x',t') with relative velocity v:
>>
>> 	x' = g(v)(x - v t)         = A(x,t)      {defines A(x,t)}
>> 	t' = g(v)(t - v x / c^2)   = B(x,t)      {defines B(x,t)}
>> 	     g(v) = 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
>>
>> Now derive the transform in differential form (@ = partial derivative):
>>
>> 	dx' = @A(x,y)/@x dx + @A(x,t)/@t dt = g(v)(dx - v dt)
>> 	dt' = @B(x,t)/@x dx + @B(x,t)/@t dt = g(v)(dt - v dx / c^2)
>>
>> Now it should be clear that for a LINEAR TRANSFORM the formulas for the
>> coordinate transform and the differential transform are the same (mutatis
>> mutandis). It should also be obvious that this is so ONLY for a linear
>> coordinate transform.
>>
>> Between almost all pairs of non-inertial "frames", and between any inertial
>>  frame and any non-inertial "frame", the coordinate transform is nonlinear.
>> Your claim is disproven.
>
> Just how does the above prove Koobee Wublee wrong?

In a clear and obvious way to anybody who understands basic mathematics.
Apparently this does not include you.

Remember we have (from the definitions of A() and B() above)
	x' = A(x,t)
	t' = B(x,t)
So, from the definition of partial differentiation, we have:
	dx' = @A(x,y)/@x dx + @A(x,t)/@t dt     "Set a"
	dt' = @B(x,t)/@x dx + @B(x,t)/@t dt
Thus the ONLY case in which the differential LT holds
	dx' = g(v)(dx - v dt)                   "Set b"
	dt' = g(v)(dt - v dx / c^2)
is when
	@A(x,y)/@x = g(v)
	@A(x,t)/@t = -g(v) v
	@B(x,t)/@x = g(v)
	@B(x,t)/@t = -g(v) v / c^2

	(OK, you're unable to follow basic math, so I'll point out
	that both "Set a" and "Set b" must hold for all possible
	values of dx and dt, so we can equate the coefficients of
	them in the two sets of equations; that's all I did here.)

These last 4 equations show QUITE CLEARLY that the transform must be linear. BUT 
AS I SAID: Between almost all pairs of non-inertial "frames", and between any 
inertial frame and any non-inertial "frame", the coordinate transform is 
nonlinear. So your claim is disproven.

	(OK, you're unable to follow basic math, so I'll point out
	that the last 4 equations can be integrated trivially to give
		x' = A(x,t) = g(v)(x - v t)
		t' = B(x,t) = g(v)(t - v x / c^2)
	Note that these are i) LINEAR in x and t, and ii) the original
	Lorentz transform we started with. Only (i) matters here.)




Later you say:
> Tom’s claim has no support just erroneous and empty statements.

My "claim" is:
>> LET is the LORENTZ Ether Theory, and it uses the LORENTZ transform.

This is INDISPUTABLE, because THIS IS WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN.


>> But it does not really matter, as the Larmor transform between two given
>> frames is algebraically identical to the Lorentz transform between the same
>> frames.
>
> This is just not true since Larmor’s and the Lorentz transforms differ
> mathematically.

Prove it.

	(OK, we'll all watch while KW simply abandons the thread without
	 presenting any evidence in support of his claim. Because, of
	 course, there is no possible support for such blatantly wrong
	 claims. They LOOK different, but are algebraically identical;
	 but KW is unable to follow basic math and deceived himself.)

	From 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Lorentz_transformations#Larmor_.281897.2C_1900.29
	The Larmor transform (final form) is:
		x' = g (x - v t)
		y' = y
		z' = z
		t' = t/g - g (x - v t) v / c^2
		g = 1/sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)
	The first three are manifestly the same as the Lorentz transform.
	The fourth just takes elementary algebra to put it into the usual
	form of the Lorentz transform.


Tom Roberts

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#384591

FromKoobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-29 22:26 -0700
Message-ID<fac7304b-545f-4860-8d06-533bae385ccb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384587
On Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 8:04:40 PM UTC-7, tjrob137 wrote:
> Koobee Wublee wrote:

> > The Lorentz transform if written in the form using (dt, dx, dy, dz)
> > instead of (t, x, y, z) should satisfy any non-inertial frames of
> > references as well.
>
> Remember we have (from the definitions of A() and B() above)
> 	x' = A(x,t)
> 	t' = B(x,t)
> So, from the definition of partial differentiation, we have:
> 	dx' = @A(x,y)/@x dx + @A(x,t)/@t dt     "Set a"
> 	dt' = @B(x,t)/@x dx + @B(x,t)/@t dt
> Thus the ONLY case in which the differential LT holds
> 	dx' = g(v)(dx - v dt)                   "Set b"
> 	dt' = g(v)(dt - v dx / c^2)
> is when
> 	@A(x,y)/@x = g(v)
> 	@A(x,t)/@t = -g(v) v
> 	@B(x,t)/@x = g(v)
> 	@B(x,t)/@t = -g(v) v / c^2

Yes.  <shrug>

> 	(OK, you're unable to follow basic math, so I'll point out
> 	that both "Set a" and "Set b" must hold for all possible
> 	values of dx and dt, so we can equate the coefficients of
> 	them in the two sets of equations; that's all I did here.)

Nonsense, you nincompoop!  How does that mathematics prove Koobee Wublee wrong?  All mathematical models that satisfy the null results of the MMX satisfy what Tom has elementarily written above.  What the fuck, Tom!  <shrug>

> [more ranting nonsense that actually exposes Tom’s ignorance snipped]

<shaking head>

> My "claim" is: “LET is the LORENTZ Ether Theory, and it uses the LORENTZ
> transform.”

And that remains Tom’s baseless claim.  <shrug>

> This is INDISPUTABLE, because THIS IS WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN.

Ahahaha!  Is Tom playing a fucking idiot?  LORENTZ Ether Theory can only be the LORENTZ transform if claimed.  <shrug>

> > This is just not true since Larmor’s and the Lorentz transforms differ
> > mathematically.
> 
> Prove it.

Once again, here it is that Tom has fucking ignored for the n’th time.  <shrug>

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics.relativity/qnFbRQrXb0k/k-liW9RFr_wJ

> [rest of idiotic rants from Tom snipped]

Tom is nothing but a snake oil salesman who knows nothing about mathematics nor physics.  <shrug>

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#384905

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-06-03 10:42 -0500
Message-ID<acadnXYy07LPOMzKnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#384591
On 5/30/16 5/30/16 - 12:26 AM, Koobee Wublee wrote:
> On Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 8:04:40 PM UTC-7, tjrob137 wrote:
>> Koobee Wublee wrote:
>>> The Lorentz transform if written in the form using (dt, dx, dy, dz)
>>> instead of (t, x, y, z) should satisfy any non-inertial frames of
>>> references as well.
>> Remember we have (from the definitions of A() and B() above)
>> 	x' = A(x,t)
>> 	t' = B(x,t)
>> So, from the definition of partial differentiation, we have:
>> 	dx' = @A(x,y)/@x dx + @A(x,t)/@t dt     "Set a"
>> 	dt' = @B(x,t)/@x dx + @B(x,t)/@t dt
>> Thus the ONLY case in which the differential LT holds
>> 	dx' = g(v)(dx - v dt)                   "Set b"
>> 	dt' = g(v)(dt - v dx / c^2)
>> is when
>> 	@A(x,y)/@x = g(v)
>> 	@A(x,t)/@t = -g(v) v
>> 	@B(x,t)/@x = g(v)
>> 	@B(x,t)/@t = -g(v) v / c^2
>
> Yes.  <shrug>
>
>> 	(OK, you're unable to follow basic math, so I'll point out
>> 	that both "Set a" and "Set b" must hold for all possible
>> 	values of dx and dt, so we can equate the coefficients of
>> 	them in the two sets of equations; that's all I did here.)
>
> Nonsense, you nincompoop!

Here the nincompoop is clearly Koobee Wublee -- You agreed with the equations 
and then called the explanation of how they were obtained "nonsense". You don't 
even know your own mind.


> How does that mathematics prove Koobee Wublee wrong?

It quite clearly shows that the Lorentz transform in differential form applies 
only to LINEAR TRANSFORMS, which only occur between inertial frames.

	(And some very special pairs of non-inertial "frames", which
	 are a negligibly small subset of the set of all pairs of
	 non-inertial "frames".)

So your claim that the Lorentz transform in differential form "should satisfy 
any non-inertial frames of reference" is just plain wrong.


>> My "claim" is: “LET is the LORENTZ Ether Theory, and it uses the LORENTZ
>> transform.”
> And that remains Tom’s baseless claim.  <shrug>
>> This is INDISPUTABLE, because THIS IS WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN.
> Ahahaha!  Is Tom playing a fucking idiot?

No, I don't "play" like that. But Koobee Wublee _IS_ a fucking idiot.

Lorentz created and described the Lorentz Ether Theory (LET), and he naturally 
used his own derivation of the transform. All of the documents that describe LET 
were written by LORENTZ, including his 1904 paper which introduced the LORENTZ 
transform in its final form.

	Just because Larmor's name also starts with "L" does NOT mean
	he was involved; he wasn't.


> LORENTZ Ether Theory can only be the LORENTZ transform if claimed.  <shrug>
>
>>> This is just not true since Larmor’s and the Lorentz transforms differ
>>> mathematically.
>>
>> Prove it.
>
> Once again, here it is that Tom has fucking ignored for the n’th time.  <shrug>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics.relativity/qnFbRQrXb0k/k-liW9RFr_wJ

Koobee Wublee again references his own post, in which he fails to show any 
difference between the two transforms WHEN WRITTEN BETWEEN A GIVEN PAIR OF FRAMES.


Tom Roberts

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#383935

FromDirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not>
Date2016-05-22 14:20 +0200
Message-ID<nhs864$1kis$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#383919
Op 21-mei-2016 om 23:38 schreef kenseto:
> Why is the SRT math only have time dilation and length contraction
> equations?
>
> Why is there no time expansion and length expansion equations?

Tom already replied. I will add this.

Picture this carefully:

You and I are in relative motion. We know that because
if are not careful, we might smash into one another.

I have a clock at rest in my system. The time
between two ticks on my clock is defined as the
proper time between the ticks of my clock.
When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
the time interval between the same two ticks from
my clock, but now in your system in which my clock
is moving, then we find that "your" time interval
is dilated w.r.t. "my" proper time.

You have a clock at rest in your system. The time
between two ticks on your clock is defined as the
proper time between the ticks of your clock.
When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
the time interval between the same two ticks from
your clock, but now in my system in which my clock
is moving, then we find that "my" time interval
is dilated w.r.t. "your" proper time.

I have a stick at rest in my system. The distance
between the two endpoints of my stick is defined as
the proper length of my stick.
When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
the distance between the same two endpoints of my
stick, but now in your system in which my stick is
moving, then we find that "your" length is
contracted w.r.t. "my" proper length.

You have a stick at rest in your system. The distance
between the two endpoints of your stick is defined as
the proper length of your stick.
When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
the distance between the same two endpoints of your
stick, but now in my system in which your stick is
moving, then we find that "my" length is contracted
w.r.t. "your" proper length.

Note that my clock is not your clock, and that my
stick is not your stick. These are all entirely
different objects.
I measure properties of and about your objects.
You measure properties of and about my objects.

>
> Does that mean thatSRT is based on the concept that the SRT observer
> assumes that he is in a preferred frame.....the aether frame and
> that's why SRT and LET have the same math?

No, it assumes that you and I see similar things about
each other's objects.

>
> Does that mean that the inertial frame in SRT is just another name
> for the aether frame?

No, it means that my frame and your frame are on equal
footing. No frame is preferred. And aethers are out
of the picture.

>
> Thank you for your answers.
>

Dirk Vdm

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#384006

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-23 08:37 -0700
Message-ID<05c4138e-e2df-44d0-842a-9b7c9d058e4d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#383935
On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 8:20:23 AM UTC-4, Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
> Op 21-mei-2016 om 23:38 schreef kenseto:
> > Why is the SRT math only have time dilation and length contraction
> > equations?
> >
> > Why is there no time expansion and length expansion equations?
> 
> Tom already replied. I will add this.
> 
> Picture this carefully:
> 
> You and I are in relative motion. We know that because
> if are not careful, we might smash into one another.
> 
> I have a clock at rest in my system. The time
> between two ticks on my clock is defined as the
> proper time between the ticks of my clock.
> When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
> the time interval between the same two ticks from
> my clock, but now in your system in which my clock
> is moving, then we find that "your" time interval
> is dilated w.r.t. "my" proper time.

What you said contradicts actual observations....clocks 
in relative motion will accumulate clock seconds at different 
rates....that means that between two clocks A and B 
if the correct prediction for A is that B's clock second is worth 
gamma clock seconds on his clock then the correct the correct 
prediction for B is that A's clock second is worth 1/gamma second
on his (B's) clock. 


> 
> You have a clock at rest in your system. The time
> between two ticks on your clock is defined as the
> proper time between the ticks of your clock.
> When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
> the time interval between the same two ticks from
> your clock, but now in my system in which my clock
> is moving, then we find that "my" time interval
> is dilated w.r.t. "your" proper time.
> 
> I have a stick at rest in my system. The distance
> between the two endpoints of my stick is defined as
> the proper length of my stick.
> When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
> the distance between the same two endpoints of my
> stick, but now in your system in which my stick is
> moving, then we find that "your" length is
> contracted w.r.t. "my" proper length.

In real life (and in SR) the material length of a meter stick is not changed due to relative motion. SR says that the projected length of a moving meter stick onto the observer's coordinate system is foreshortened by a factor of 1/gamma. It is clear that this invented projection effect explanation is not very satisfying....and it is not verifiable experimentally. To this end I invented a new interpretation for the LC equation as follows:
1. The material length of a meter stick remains the same in all frames.
2. The length-path length (LPL) of the observer's meter stick is assumed to be it material length.
3. The LPL of a moving meter stick is predicted to be gamma or 1/gamma meter long...dependent on the state of absolute motion of the moving meter stick compared to that of the observer's absolute motion. If the stick has a higher state of absolute motion than the observer then the correct prediction is that its LPL is gamma meters long. If the stick is in a lower state of absolute motion then the correct prediction is that its LPL is 1/gamma meters long.

The above concept on length contraction is included in my new theory of relativity called IRT. A paper on IRT is available in the following link:
http://www.modelmechanics.org/2015irt.pdf
 

> 
> You have a stick at rest in your system. The distance
> between the two endpoints of your stick is defined as
> the proper length of your stick.
> When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
> the distance between the same two endpoints of your
> stick, but now in my system in which your stick is
> moving, then we find that "my" length is contracted
> w.r.t. "your" proper length.
> 
> Note that my clock is not your clock, and that my
> stick is not your stick. These are all entirely
> different objects.
> I measure properties of and about your objects.
> You measure properties of and about my objects.
> 
> >
> > Does that mean thatSRT is based on the concept that the SRT observer
> > assumes that he is in a preferred frame.....the aether frame and
> > that's why SRT and LET have the same math?
> 
> No, it assumes that you and I see similar things about
> each other's objects.
> 
> >
> > Does that mean that the inertial frame in SRT is just another name
> > for the aether frame?
> 
> No, it means that my frame and your frame are on equal
> footing. No frame is preferred. And aethers are out
> of the picture.
> 
> >
> > Thank you for your answers.
> >
> 
> Dirk Vdm

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#384013

FromDirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not>
Date2016-05-23 18:20 +0200
Message-ID<nhvalc$boa$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#384006
Op 23-mei-2016 om 17:37 schreef kenseto:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 8:20:23 AM UTC-4, Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
>> Op 21-mei-2016 om 23:38 schreef kenseto:
>>> Why is the SRT math only have time dilation and length contraction
>>> equations?
>>>
>>> Why is there no time expansion and length expansion equations?
>>
>> Tom already replied. I will add this.
>>
>> Picture this carefully:
>>
>> You and I are in relative motion. We know that because
>> if we are not careful, we might smash into one another.
>>
>> I have a clock at rest in my system. The time
>> between two ticks on my clock is defined as the
>> proper time between the ticks of my clock.
>> When we use the Lorentz transformation to calculate
>> the time interval between the same two ticks from
>> my clock, but now in your system in which my clock
>> is moving, then we find that "your" time interval
>> is dilated w.r.t. "my" proper time.
>
> What you said contradicts actual observations....

I said, picture this carefully.
CAREFULLY.

Dirk Vdm

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