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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #614563 > unrolled thread

A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity.

Started byLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
First post2023-07-06 11:05 -0700
Last post2023-07-07 20:50 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 152 — 28 participants

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Contents

  A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 11:05 -0700
    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 11:09 -0700
    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 11:14 -0700
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 11:17 -0700
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2023-07-06 11:32 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-06 11:51 -0700
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 12:19 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-07 15:26 +1000
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 01:14 -0700
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-07 09:33 +0000
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-07 14:57 +0200
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-07 13:33 +0000
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 07:30 -0700
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-07 16:34 +0200
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 07:51 -0700
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-07 16:52 +0200
                        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 07:57 -0700
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-07 17:04 +0200
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-07-07 16:31 +0300
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:02 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-08 12:09 +1000
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Lou <noelturntive@live.co.uk> - 2023-07-08 01:15 -0700
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-06 21:45 +0200
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 12:47 -0700
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 12:48 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-06 13:16 -0700
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 13:17 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-06 15:17 -0500
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 13:32 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-06 16:03 -0500
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 13:37 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-06 16:06 -0500
    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-07-06 11:59 -0700
    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-07-06 23:07 +0200
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 14:46 -0700
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-06 21:07 -0400
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 20:11 -0700
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-07-07 10:14 +0200
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 01:40 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 10:57 -0700
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-07-07 22:12 +0200
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-07 12:43 -0400
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Kalaki Kalacos <oiis@nnnhgsoi.nd> - 2023-07-07 17:55 +0000
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:16 -0700
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-08 12:28 +1000
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:10 -0700
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 10:15 -0700
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-07-09 11:59 +0300
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-07-09 15:09 +0000
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 18:15 +0200
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-07-07 22:13 +0200
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 14:22 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Duston Pantelakos <eats@sonknkdt.tt> - 2023-07-07 21:15 +0000
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 20:20 -0700
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-08 13:45 +1000
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-06 22:54 -0500
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 20:59 -0700
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 01:16 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 21:13 -0700
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-07 10:10 -0500
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 09:28 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:09 -0700
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-07 18:30 +0000
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-07 18:33 +0000
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-08 03:16 +0200
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:08 -0700
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-08 03:33 +0200
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-08 09:31 +0200
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-08 00:45 -0700
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-08 09:49 +0000
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-07 18:49 -0500
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-07-07 12:20 +0300
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 02:24 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 07:00 -0700
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-07-07 17:37 +0300
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 07:53 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:05 -0700
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-07-08 11:52 +0300
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-07 12:50 -0400
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 09:51 -0700
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-07 23:55 -0400
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:07 -0700
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:37 -0700
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:42 -0700
                        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:45 -0700
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 22:00 -0700
                            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 10:33 -0700
                              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-08 16:07 -0400
                                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 13:10 -0700
                                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-08 16:59 -0400
                                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-08 22:31 -0700
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 10:30 -0700
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 10:28 -0700
                        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-08 12:42 -0700
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 13:02 -0700
                            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-08 18:54 -0500
                              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-09 11:58 -0700
                                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-09 14:15 -0500
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:13 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 19:29 +0200
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:19 -0700
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Norge Brisimitzakis <niig@tbirsnii.ie> - 2023-07-07 18:31 +0000
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:36 -0700
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-07 19:06 +0000
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 13:16 -0700
                        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-07 20:47 +0000
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 13:50 -0700
                            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@alphapou.net> - 2023-07-07 21:12 +0000
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-08 09:26 +0200
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:17 -0700
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-07 17:40 -0400
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-07 18:51 -0500
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Mervin Paraskevopoulos <eepk@aupoavsa.sl> - 2023-07-07 18:19 +0000
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-07 17:28 -0400
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Bertin Lolos <rblb@ltinllrt.ot> - 2023-07-07 21:53 +0000
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-07 23:46 -0400
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Nolberto Eliopoulos <looo@btoloene.pb> - 2023-07-08 19:29 +0000
                        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2023-07-08 12:58 -0700
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Bondie Antonopoulos <oebo@niononud.te> - 2023-07-08 20:36 +0000
                            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2023-07-08 15:32 -0700
                              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Michaes Egonidis <esnh@soddssei.si> - 2023-07-08 23:10 +0000
                              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-09 13:59 -0400
                                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2023-07-09 11:05 -0700
                                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Jeff Egonidis <noig@iegoiiio.nf> - 2023-07-09 18:20 +0000
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-06 14:56 -0700
    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-07 11:06 -0700
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 11:22 -0700
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-07 14:28 -0700
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Deangelo Sfakianos <enoe@adaonlnd.eo> - 2023-07-07 19:28 +0000
    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 20:28 -0700
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-08 13:50 +1000
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 20:52 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-08 14:56 +1000
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 10:32 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-09 10:48 +1000
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Bill <davos2329@gmail.com> - 2023-07-08 19:16 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-07-09 12:04 +0300
      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-08 00:04 -0400
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-07 21:15 -0700
        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-08 10:24 -0700
          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-09 13:32 -0400
            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 13:15 -0700
              Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 15:03 -0700
                Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 21:20 -0700
                  Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 22:13 -0700
                    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 22:47 -0700
                      Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 22:59 -0700
                        Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 23:13 -0700
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 23:37 -0700
                          Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 23:39 -0700
                            Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-09 23:47 -0700
    Re: A sniper bullet trajectory & relativity. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-07 20:50 -0700

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#614673

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2023-07-07 22:12 +0200
Message-ID<1qdinf7.2ddkn11qwoywgN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#614652
Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 1:14:05?AM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16?PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> > > > On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56?PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > >> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must
> > > > >>> take into account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows
> > > > >>> the lack of any wind, it does not show the bullet does not share
> > > > >>> the velocity of the source. It does not show the bullet velocity
> > > > >>> is independent of the source. It does not confirm the constancy
> > > > >>> or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still shares the
> > > > >>> velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the
> > > > >>> constancy of the speed of light.
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Of course it didn't. 
> > > > >> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> > > > >> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Jan 
> > > > > Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX
> > > > > proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a
> > > > > stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
> > > > > 
> > > > Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of
> > > > the MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because
> > > > that's what all the experimental results stated.
> > > > 
> > > > (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for
> > > > belief in a constant speed of light?)
> > 
> > > This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know.
> > This 'well-known fact' is known to crackpots like you only. 
> > History flatly contradicts it of course. 
> > If constancy of the speed of light follows from MMX, 
> > why didn't Michelson say so right away? 
> > (FYI, he said something altogether different) 
> > 
> > Why did the whole scientific establishment of the late 19th century,
> > including the best minds there were at the time, 
> > struggle with the interpretation of MMX for almost 30 years? 
> > 
> > The answer is of course that constancy of the speed of light 
> > doesn't 'follow' from anything. 
> > It took the genius of Einstein to see that everything falls into place
> > once you -postulate- it. 
> > MMX is then merely a trivial corrolary.
> > > Do you have to accuse anyone of lying?
> > Now now, come on, Hanlon's Razor applies. 
> > "Never assume malice when stupidity is an adequate explanation". 
> > You -could- try to mend the errors of your ways, 
> > 
> > Jan
> I did not say constancy of the speed of light follows from the MMX. I said
> it does not.

Yes, so I asked you:
===
Of course it didn't.
Why kick down this open door once again?
(and worse, with faulty arguments)
===
You didn't answer.

> It does not because the MMX is most parsimoniously explained
> by ordinary additive velocities, which assume light shares the source's
> velocity. Obviously, the best minds had trouble relinquishing the ether. I
> don't believe in an ether, but Einstein adopted it again in 1920. The
> constancy of the speed of light can be determined from an experiment like
> the MMX but more exact because the perpendicular beam would have negative
> additive velocity.

Yes, yes, covered that already. "faulty arguments".

> I might figure you people are stupid or you are lying or just plain
> mistaken. It is curious that you have even twisted Hanlon's razor.

Don't worry, in your case stupidity is in all likelyhood
the adequate explanation,

Jan
 

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#614643

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-07-07 12:43 -0400
Message-ID<u89fbe$1cnd7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#614599
On 7/6/2023 11:11 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into
>>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind,
>>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It
>>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does
>>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still
>>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the
>>>>> constancy of the speed of light.
>>>> Of course it didn't.
>>>> Why kick down this open door once again?
>>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments)
>>>>
>>>> Jan

>>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.

>> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the
>> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's
>> what all the experimental results stated.
>>
>> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for
>> belief in a constant speed of light?)

> This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have to accuse anyone of lying?

I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing. 
You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his 
ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments 
before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light as a 
constant. The physicists of the time were saying to themselves 
"Experiments show the speed of light is a constant. How/why?"

Experiments before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light 
as a constant. All Einstein did was to say "what if a constant speed of 
light is some unknown law of physics?" He took a constant speed of light 
(and the first postulate) and worked out what would happen. The result 
was SR.

I will type the next sentence very slowly so that you can understand it.
A constant speed of light was already known before Einstein came along.

The MMX doesn't prove the speed of light is a constant. The MMX also 
doesn't prove the speed of light isn't a constant. All it did was to 
prove a certain form of aether didn't exist.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#614651

FromKalaki Kalacos <oiis@nnnhgsoi.nd>
Date2023-07-07 17:55 +0000
Message-ID<u89ji8$3d7a6$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#614643
Volney wrote:

>> This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have
>> to accuse anyone of lying?
> 
> I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing.
> You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his
> ass

of course is Russia's fault not taking back Odessa and co. I would want to 
visit Odessa, but I cant visit anything with those nazis in it. You 
fucking american immigrants not even know what a nazi is. You never saw a 
nazi, you fucking inbreed. You play with words of nazi, but you don't know 
what it is. Fuck you, morony. You think communism is capitalism and 
capitalism is communism. Fucking idiots of america.

they have cocaine dealer in their fucking white hows, where a man, possing 
as the first lady were fucking unborn american black president of the 
united states in his as. Now his vicepresident sniffs cocaine and 
promulgate tranny pedophiles to children, in schools, military etc. FUck 
you, america, suck my dick.

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#614658

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-07 11:16 -0700
Message-ID<86ce6bfc-94b7-4474-9598-92aed8570ebbn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614643
On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 9:43:30 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> On 7/6/2023 11:11 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> >> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> >>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into 
> >>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind, 
> >>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It 
> >>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does 
> >>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still 
> >>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the 
> >>>>> constancy of the speed of light. 
> >>>> Of course it didn't. 
> >>>> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> >>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Jan 
> 
> >>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all. 
> 
> >> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> >> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> >> what all the experimental results stated. 
> >> 
> >> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> >> belief in a constant speed of light?)
> > This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have to accuse anyone of lying? 
> 
> I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing. 
> You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his 
> ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments 
> before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light as a 
> constant. The physicists of the time were saying to themselves 
> "Experiments show the speed of light is a constant. How/why?" 
> 
> Experiments before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light 
> as a constant. All Einstein did was to say "what if a constant speed of 
> light is some unknown law of physics?" He took a constant speed of light 
> (and the first postulate) and worked out what would happen. The result 
> was SR. 
> 
> I will type the next sentence very slowly so that you can understand it. 
> A constant speed of light was already known before Einstein came along. 
> 
> The MMX doesn't prove the speed of light is a constant. The MMX also 
> doesn't prove the speed of light isn't a constant. All it did was to 
> prove a certain form of aether didn't exist.
The physicists were wondering whether it shared the velocity of the source, and even Michelson in 1913, when he did his moving mirrors experiment (as I have mentioned here) thought it did not. Interpreting the experiments as showing light speed is constant does not mean they necessarily showed that. It is now clear they did not because simple additive velocities suffice, as has been shown by many scientists.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#614716

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Date2023-07-08 12:28 +1000
Message-ID<kgrvutF1vk7U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614658
On 08-July-23 4:16 am, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 9:43:30 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> On 7/6/2023 11:11 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into
>>>>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind,
>>>>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It
>>>>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does
>>>>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still
>>>>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the
>>>>>>> constancy of the speed of light.
>>>>>> Of course it didn't.
>>>>>> Why kick down this open door once again?
>>>>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jan
>>
>>>>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
>>
>>>> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the
>>>> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's
>>>> what all the experimental results stated.
>>>>
>>>> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for
>>>> belief in a constant speed of light?)
>>> This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have to accuse anyone of lying?
>>
>> I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing.
>> You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his
>> ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments
>> before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light as a
>> constant. The physicists of the time were saying to themselves
>> "Experiments show the speed of light is a constant. How/why?"
>>
>> Experiments before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light
>> as a constant. All Einstein did was to say "what if a constant speed of
>> light is some unknown law of physics?" He took a constant speed of light
>> (and the first postulate) and worked out what would happen. The result
>> was SR.
>>
>> I will type the next sentence very slowly so that you can understand it.
>> A constant speed of light was already known before Einstein came along.
>>
>> The MMX doesn't prove the speed of light is a constant. The MMX also
>> doesn't prove the speed of light isn't a constant. All it did was to
>> prove a certain form of aether didn't exist.
> The physicists were wondering whether it shared the velocity of the source, and even Michelson in 1913, when he did his moving mirrors experiment (as I have mentioned here) thought it did not. Interpreting the experiments as showing light speed is constant does not mean they necessarily showed that. It is now clear they did not because simple additive velocities suffice, as has been shown by many scientists.

If the simple addition of velocities explained it all, do you not think 
that the physicists of the time would have realised that?

Of course, the results of Fizeau's experiment, performed several decades 
before MMX, were already a problem for a model based on simple addition.

Sylvia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#614733

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-07 21:10 -0700
Message-ID<6d425a86-ccbc-4751-8046-b3ec9058665en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614716
On Saturday, 8 July 2023 at 04:28:49 UTC+2, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 08-July-23 4:16 am, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 9:43:30 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> >> On 7/6/2023 11:11 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> >>>> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> >>>>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into 
> >>>>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind, 
> >>>>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It 
> >>>>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does 
> >>>>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still 
> >>>>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the 
> >>>>>>> constancy of the speed of light. 
> >>>>>> Of course it didn't. 
> >>>>>> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> >>>>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Jan 
> >> 
> >>>>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all. 
> >> 
> >>>> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> >>>> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> >>>> what all the experimental results stated. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> >>>> belief in a constant speed of light?)
> >>> This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have to accuse anyone of lying? 
> >> 
> >> I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing. 
> >> You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his 
> >> ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments 
> >> before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light as a 
> >> constant. The physicists of the time were saying to themselves
> >> "Experiments show the speed of light is a constant. How/why?"
> >> 
> >> Experiments before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light
> >> as a constant. All Einstein did was to say "what if a constant speed of
> >> light is some unknown law of physics?" He took a constant speed of light 
> >> (and the first postulate) and worked out what would happen. The result 
> >> was SR. 
> >>
> >> I will type the next sentence very slowly so that you can understand it. 
> >> A constant speed of light was already known before Einstein came along. 
> >>
> >> The MMX doesn't prove the speed of light is a constant. The MMX also 
> >> doesn't prove the speed of light isn't a constant. All it did was to 
> >> prove a certain form of aether didn't exist.
> > The physicists were wondering whether it shared the velocity of the source, and even Michelson in 1913, when he did his moving mirrors experiment (as I have mentioned here) thought it did not. Interpreting the experiments as showing light speed is constant does not mean they necessarily showed that. It is now clear they did not because simple additive velocities suffice, as has been shown by many scientists. 
> 
> If the simple addition of velocities explained it all, do you not think 
> that the physicists of the time would have realised that? 

Oh, they did, lady.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#614764

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-08 10:15 -0700
Message-ID<50c737c0-7a01-4192-abdc-e663c6594e41n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614716
On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 7:28:49 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 08-July-23 4:16 am, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 9:43:30 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> >> On 7/6/2023 11:11 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> >>>> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> >>>>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into 
> >>>>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind, 
> >>>>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It 
> >>>>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does 
> >>>>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still 
> >>>>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the 
> >>>>>>> constancy of the speed of light. 
> >>>>>> Of course it didn't. 
> >>>>>> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> >>>>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Jan 
> >> 
> >>>>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all. 
> >> 
> >>>> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> >>>> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> >>>> what all the experimental results stated. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> >>>> belief in a constant speed of light?)
> >>> This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have to accuse anyone of lying? 
> >> 
> >> I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing. 
> >> You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his 
> >> ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments 
> >> before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light as a 
> >> constant. The physicists of the time were saying to themselves
> >> "Experiments show the speed of light is a constant. How/why?"
> >> 
> >> Experiments before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light
> >> as a constant. All Einstein did was to say "what if a constant speed of
> >> light is some unknown law of physics?" He took a constant speed of light 
> >> (and the first postulate) and worked out what would happen. The result 
> >> was SR. 
> >>
> >> I will type the next sentence very slowly so that you can understand it. 
> >> A constant speed of light was already known before Einstein came along. 
> >>
> >> The MMX doesn't prove the speed of light is a constant. The MMX also 
> >> doesn't prove the speed of light isn't a constant. All it did was to 
> >> prove a certain form of aether didn't exist.
> > The physicists were wondering whether it shared the velocity of the source, and even Michelson in 1913, when he did his moving mirrors experiment (as I have mentioned here) thought it did not. Interpreting the experiments as showing light speed is constant does not mean they necessarily showed that. It is now clear they did not because simple additive velocities suffice, as has been shown by many scientists. 
> 
> If the simple addition of velocities explained it all, do you not think 
> that the physicists of the time would have realised that? 
> 
> Of course, the results of Fizeau's experiment, performed several decades 
> before MMX, were already a problem for a model based on simple addition. 
> 
> Sylvia.
Please see (if you are willing to look through the telescope): “Optical Fizeau Experiment with Moving Water is Explained without Fresnel's Hypothesis and Contradicts Special Relativity” “Abstract
Fizeau experiment actually proves not partial, as the special relativity asserts, but complete dragging of the light by moving medium. The decrease of the fringe shift in the Fizeau's two-beam interferometer is explained not with wrong Fresnel's aether drag hypothesis but with the phase deviations arising in the interfering beams because of Doppler shift of the frequencies. Fizeau experiment does not prove but, on the contrary, refutes Einstein's theory of relativity"

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#614822

FromMikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Date2023-07-09 11:59 +0300
Message-ID<u8dstv$23eau$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#614764
On 2023-07-08 17:15:50 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

> Please see (if you are willing to look through the telescope): “Optical 
> Fizeau Experiment with Moving Water is Explained without Fresnel's 
> Hypothesis and Contradicts Special Relativity”

The article is based on an error. In its Introduction it says "Although
that time Doppler has already showed that the light changes its frequency
when enters moving medium,". In the Fizeau experiment light does not
change its frequency and Doppler did not show otherwise. The frequency
change is seen by a moving observer but there is no moving observer in
the Fizeau experiment. The light source and the screen where the
interference pattern is seen are both stationary.

> “Abstract
> Fizeau experiment actually proves not partial, as the special 
> relativity asserts, but complete dragging of the light by moving 
> medium. The decrease of the fringe shift in the Fizeau's two-beam 
> interferometer is explained not with wrong Fresnel's aether drag 
> hypothesis but with the phase deviations arising in the interfering 
> beams because of Doppler shift of the frequencies.

That sentence mentiones the Doppler effect but the claim is false.

> Fizeau experiment does not prove but, on the contrary, refutes 
> Einstein's theory of relativity"

Mikko

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#614835

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr>
Date2023-07-09 15:09 +0000
Message-ID<MDRvjfVHwHY2KYmKpSvn7HWTbEg@jntp>
In reply to#614716
Le 08/07/2023 à 04:28, Sylvia Else a écrit :
> On 08-July-23 4:16 am, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:

> Of course, the results of Fizeau's experiment, performed several decades 
> before MMX, were already a problem for a model based on simple addition.
> 
> Sylvia.

he scientific problem today is twofold.
On one side the cranks, which pose w=v+u, and on the other the physicists, 
who pose w=(v+u)/(1+v.u/c²)
Some: mad; others: shy.

Thereupon comes Dr. Hachel, and proposes equations worthy of interest: he 
is threatened with death.

Don't laugh, friends. It is reality.
In the meantime, physicists, researchers, lovers of the truth and beauty 
of relativistic science may prefer a truer and more complete equation.

So I leave this to them.

<http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?MDRvjfVHwHY2KYmKpSvn7HWTbEg@jntp/Data.Media:1>

They can have fun looking for everything according to angles or speeds.

The beauty and perfection of the equation will remain.

"Heaven and earth will pass away, my words will absolutely not pass away." 
Jesus Christ

Some concepts, some equations are eternal.

R.H. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#614838

FromAthel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-09 18:15 +0200
Message-ID<kh04p3Fmuk0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614835
On 2023-07-09 15:09:02 +0000, Richard Hachel said:

> Le 08/07/2023 à 04:28, Sylvia Else a écrit :
>> On 08-July-23 4:16 am, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> 
>> Of course, the results of Fizeau's experiment, performed several 
>> decades before MMX, were already a problem for a model based on simple 
>> addition.
>> 
>> Sylvia.
> 
> he scientific problem today is twofold.
> On one side the cranks, which pose w=v+u, and on the other the 
> physicists, who pose w=(v+u)/(1+v.u/c²)
> Some: mad; others: shy.
> 
> Thereupon comes Dr. Hachel, and proposes equations worthy of interest: 
> he is threatened with death.

Who has threatened "Dr." Hachel with death? When? When is "Dr." Hachel 
going to reveal which university awarded his "doctorate"? When? What 
was the title of his thesis? For that matter, when is "Dr." Hachel 
going to reveal where he taught for 22 years, and in what capacity?

I don't doubt that Dr. Lengrand has the qualifications necessary for 
practising medicine in Arras, or wherever it is, but that's irrelevant: 
it doesn't qualify "Dr." Hachel for claiming to be an expert on physics.

> Don't laugh, friends. It is reality.

If it's reality, then you can easily provide some evidence.

> In the meantime, physicists, researchers, lovers of the truth and 
> beauty of relativistic science may prefer a truer and more complete 
> equation.
> 
> So I leave this to them.

Except that you won't. You'll keep coming back with more nonsense.

> <http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?MDRvjfVHwHY2KYmKpSvn7HWTbEg@jntp/Data.Media:1>
> 
> They can have fun looking for everything according to angles or speeds.
> 
> The beauty and perfection of the equation will remain.
> 
> "Heaven and earth will pass away, my words will absolutely not pass 
> away." Jesus Christ
> 
> Some concepts, some equations are eternal.
> 
> R.H.


-- 
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

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#614676

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2023-07-07 22:13 +0200
Message-ID<1qdiq1a.1klmxtpedonzpN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#614643
Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 7/6/2023 11:11 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16?PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> >> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56?PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into
> >>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any
> >>>>> wind, it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the
> >>>>> source. It does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the
> >>>>> source. It does not confirm the constancy or invariance of the
> >>>>> bullet's speed. It still shares the velocity of the source.
> >>>>> Therefore, the MMX did not prove the constancy of the speed of
> >>>>> light.
> >>>> Of course it didn't.
> >>>> Why kick down this open door once again?
> >>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments)
> >>>>
> >>>> Jan
> 
> >>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved
> >>> the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid
> >>> conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
> >>> 
> >> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the
> >> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's
> >> what all the experimental results stated.
> >>
> >> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for
> >> belief in a constant speed of light?)
> 
> > This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have
> > to accuse anyone of lying?
> > 
> I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing.
> You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his
> ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments
> before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light as a 
> constant. The physicists of the time were saying to themselves 
> "Experiments show the speed of light is a constant. How/why?"

You really should drop this silly naive empirism.
It is completely unhistorical.
Nothing even remotely like it happened.

> Experiments before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light
> as a constant. 

Idem. If you disagree, cite such a measurement.

> All Einstein did was to say "what if a constant speed of light is some
> unknown law of physics?" He took a constant speed of light (and the first
> postulate) and worked out what would happen. The result was SR.

That is more like it.
Your 'all he did' greatly underestimates the depth of his fundamental
insight though.

> I will type the next sentence very slowly so that you can understand it.
> A constant speed of light was already known before Einstein came along.

'Known'? And by whom?

> The MMX doesn't prove the speed of light is a constant. The MMX also 
> doesn't prove the speed of light isn't a constant. All it did was to 
> prove a certain form of aether didn't exist.

That is not the most conservative conclusion.
It showed, like Michelson said,
that the aether was fully dragged by the Earth.
(but that conflicted with other experiments)
So the result was confusion all around.
Non-existence of the aether didn't arise until Einstein 1905,

Jan

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#614686

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-07 14:22 -0700
Message-ID<bfd6fbe8-03af-469f-89b0-af5f039b466en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614676
On Friday, 7 July 2023 at 22:13:04 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Volney <vol...@invalid.invalid> wrote: 
> 
> > On 7/6/2023 11:11 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16?PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> > >> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56?PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> > >>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into 
> > >>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any 
> > >>>>> wind, it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the 
> > >>>>> source. It does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the 
> > >>>>> source. It does not confirm the constancy or invariance of the 
> > >>>>> bullet's speed. It still shares the velocity of the source. 
> > >>>>> Therefore, the MMX did not prove the constancy of the speed of 
> > >>>>> light. 
> > >>>> Of course it didn't. 
> > >>>> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> > >>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Jan 
> > 
> > >>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved 
> > >>> the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid 
> > >>> conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all. 
> > >>> 
> > >> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> > >> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> > >> what all the experimental results stated. 
> > >> 
> > >> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> > >> belief in a constant speed of light?) 
> > 
> > > This is a well known fact so I'm surprised you don't know. Do you have 
> > > to accuse anyone of lying? 
> > > 
> > I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing. 
> > You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his 
> > ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments 
> > before Einstein's paper always measured the speed of light as a 
> > constant. The physicists of the time were saying to themselves 
> > "Experiments show the speed of light is a constant. How/why?"
> You really should drop this silly naive empirism. 
> It is completely unhistorical. 
> Nothing even remotely like it happened.

:))))))
Listen to your fellow idiot, stupid Mike.

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#614683

FromDuston Pantelakos <eats@sonknkdt.tt>
Date2023-07-07 21:15 +0000
Message-ID<u89va8$3ef9k$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#614643
Volney wrote:

> I accuse the liars of lying because that is what they (you) are doing.
> You are claiming that Einstein pulled a constant speed of light from his
> ass and proclaimed it to be true. That's not what happened. Experiments

khazar goy zelenske is about to be fucked up by close people.

*_Ukrainian_Man_Asks_Security_Services_To_Investigate_Zelensky_*
https://b%69%74%63hute.com/video/0pIoUTHS0vQB


watch what the war criminal, gay actor khazar goy zelenske, says at 29:40
*_UK_Column_News_-_7th_July_2023_*
https://b%69%74%63hute.com/video/272rtTJyNgNQ

he says, *_he_said_it_* before February 24 2022, and
*_the_west_still_gave_him_hard_weapons_*. Hence the fucking
*_collective_west_knew_it_* in advance! Correspondingly, if the west dies
from the face of the earth, is definitely not for nothing. This goy
motherfucker *_dictates_the_politics_of_nazi_nato_* long ago!

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#614600

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-06 20:20 -0700
Message-ID<edf9325f-ad6f-4826-a408-00aab4a658a2n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614596
On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> >> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into 
> >>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind, 
> >>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It 
> >>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does 
> >>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still 
> >>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the 
> >>> constancy of the speed of light. 
> >> Of course it didn't. 
> >> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> >> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> >> 
> >> Jan 
> > Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> what all the experimental results stated. 
> 
> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> belief in a constant speed of light?)
In any case many relativists also assert it, that Einstein asserted it. That's why it is criticized as unwarranted and not supported by the MMX.

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#614720

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Date2023-07-08 13:45 +1000
Message-ID<kgs4e3F3br5U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614600
On 07-July-23 1:20 pm, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into
>>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind,
>>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It
>>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does
>>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still
>>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the
>>>>> constancy of the speed of light.
>>>> Of course it didn't.
>>>> Why kick down this open door once again?
>>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments)
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
>> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the
>> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's
>> what all the experimental results stated.
>>
>> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for
>> belief in a constant speed of light?)
> In any case many relativists also assert it, that Einstein asserted it. That's why it is criticized as unwarranted and not supported by the MMX.

If you have an issue with people who assert it, take it up with them. If 
there's a claim that Einstein asserted it, then take it up with the 
person making the claim.

The assertion is not part of special relativity, and raising it here is 
being pointlessly argumentative.

Sylvia.

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#614603

Fromwhodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com>
Date2023-07-06 22:54 -0500
Message-ID<kgpgkdFl0g0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614596
On 7/6/2023 8:07 PM, Volney wrote:
> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into
>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any 
>>>> wind,
>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the 
>>>> source. It
>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does
>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still
>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the
>>>> constancy of the speed of light.
>>> Of course it didn't.
>>> Why kick down this open door once again?
>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments)
>>>
>>> Jan
>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved 
>> the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid 
>> conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
> 
> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> what all the experimental results stated.
> 
> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> belief in a constant speed of light?)

Because that's he only way they can rationalize their beliefs.

Appeal to authority seems to help them.

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#614604

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-06 20:59 -0700
Message-ID<e313d7e5-efbb-4e72-9460-9a030f01c790n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614603
On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 8:54:57 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> On 7/6/2023 8:07 PM, Volney wrote: 
> > On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> >>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into 
> >>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any 
> >>>> wind, 
> >>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the 
> >>>> source. It 
> >>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does 
> >>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still 
> >>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the 
> >>>> constancy of the speed of light. 
> >>> Of course it didn't. 
> >>> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> >>> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> >>> 
> >>> Jan 
> >> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved 
> >> the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid 
> >> conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all. 
> > 
> > Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> > MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> > what all the experimental results stated. 
> > 
> > (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> > belief in a constant speed of light?)
> Because that's he only way they can rationalize their beliefs. 
> 
> Appeal to authority seems to help them.
The important point is that if the second postulate doesn't explain the MMX it doesn't explain anything and it does not.

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#614614

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-07 01:16 -0700
Message-ID<d881fbcf-bbc9-4ae0-ba3a-e1ea17ef5b20n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614603
> On 7/6/2023 8:07 PM, Volney wrote: 
> > Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> > MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> > what all the experimental results stated. 

Only such an idiot can believe such an impudent lie,
stupid Mike.

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#614605

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-06 21:13 -0700
Message-ID<7a63a660-e170-435a-a24b-061c41090d30n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614596
On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> >> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into 
> >>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind, 
> >>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It 
> >>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does 
> >>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still 
> >>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the 
> >>> constancy of the speed of light. 
> >> Of course it didn't. 
> >> Why kick down this open door once again? 
> >> (and worse, with faulty arguments) 
> >> 
> >> Jan 
> > Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the 
> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's 
> what all the experimental results stated. 
> 
> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for 
> belief in a constant speed of light?)
A steel man of the first postulate: Galileo said everything in the ships cabin shares the velocity of the source.
A steel man f he second postulate: Einstein said light does not.
The second does not follow from the first.

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#614640

Fromwhodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com>
Date2023-07-07 10:10 -0500
Message-ID<kgqo84Fr14dU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614605
On 7/6/2023 11:13 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 6:07:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> On 7/6/2023 5:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 2:07:56 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A long-distance shot by a sniper (shooting from a train) must take into
>>>>> account wind. If the trajectory of the bullet shows the lack of any wind,
>>>>> it does not show the bullet does not share the velocity of the source. It
>>>>> does not show the bullet velocity is independent of the source. It does
>>>>> not confirm the constancy or invariance of the bullet's speed. It still
>>>>> shares the velocity of the source. Therefore, the MMX did not prove the
>>>>> constancy of the speed of light.
>>>> Of course it didn't.
>>>> Why kick down this open door once again?
>>>> (and worse, with faulty arguments)
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>> Because Einstein and many relativists continue to claim the MMX proved the constancy of light speed when that is obviously a stupid conflation. It did not provide any evidence for it at all.
>> Einstein never claimed the speed of light was constant because of the
>> MMX. He stated the speed of light may be constant simply because that's
>> what all the experimental results stated.

>> (why do the anti-relativity cranks have to make up false reasons for
>> belief in a constant speed of light?)

> A steel man of the first postulate: Galileo said everything in the ships cabin shares the velocity of the source.
> A steel man f he second postulate: Einstein said light does not.
> The second does not follow from the first.

Here's the problem in a nutshell. Science is always logical. Even
heliocentrism made sense in the context of what was being observed
and known at the time. The difficulty of "makes no sense" occurs
because we don't have *all* the facts.. Science always runs ahead
of common knowledge.

For example, Einstein explained (maybe you didn't catch it) that
an "aether" transmits light through space, and explained that
he didn't know what that was. See his 1920 speech to which I've
posted a link several times.

I'll say once again, new advances may topple relativity, I don't
know for sure whether or not something/someone will, but that hasn't
happened yet.

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