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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #614301 > unrolled thread

Feynman rejected the second postulate.

Started byLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
First post2023-07-02 16:46 -0700
Last post2023-07-03 09:14 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 66 — 14 participants

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Contents

  Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-02 16:46 -0700
    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-02 16:52 -0700
    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-07-03 10:24 +1000
      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-02 17:39 -0700
        Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-07-02 19:43 -0700
        Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-02 23:23 -0400
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-02 20:39 -0700
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-03 00:08 -0400
              Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:31 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:45 -0700
                  Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:50 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-03 01:01 -0400
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-07-03 09:52 +0200
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-03 12:16 -0700
              Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:04 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:28 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:53 -0700
                  Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 14:03 -0700
              Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-07-03 22:56 +0200
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-05 10:36 -0700
                  Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-07-05 21:21 +0200
                    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-05 14:27 -0700
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-02 20:59 -0700
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-03 00:11 -0400
              Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:12 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-07-03 13:27 -0500
                  Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:02 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-03 14:36 -0400
    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 18:45 -0700
      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-02 19:15 -0700
      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:05 -0700
        Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:34 -0700
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:49 -0700
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:15 -0700
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-03 13:38 -0500
              Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:03 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-03 16:10 -0500
    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-07-02 23:19 -0500
    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 09:22 +0200
      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 00:26 -0700
        Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 09:55 +0200
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 01:23 -0700
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 10:37 +0200
              Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 02:01 -0700
                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:43 +0200
                  Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 03:03 -0700
                    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:23 +0200
                      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 05:29 -0700
                      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-03 14:33 +0200
                        Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 05:39 -0700
                          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-03 14:57 +0200
                            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 06:08 -0700
                              Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-03 15:42 +0200
                                Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 06:53 -0700
                                  Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2023-07-03 15:21 +0000
                                    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-03 20:10 +0200
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-03 13:34 -0500
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 12:17 -0700
      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:17 -0700
        Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:22 -0700
        Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:24 -0700
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-07-03 13:39 -0500
          Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-07-03 17:22 -0400
            Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 22:06 -0700
      Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:35 -0700
    Re: Feynman rejected the second postulate. "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 09:14 -0700

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#614525

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2023-07-05 21:21 +0200
Message-ID<1qdeyvq.pfc3byfgsr19N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#614516
RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On July 3, J. J. Lodder wrote:

[wrote none of that]
> >>> You are disagreeing with Feynman. I'm with Feynman. 
> >  
> >> Feynman was snookered by the proposed superluminal 
> >> communications device, supposedly based on quantum 
> >> entanglement, utilizing quantum state replication. Until 
> >> he was informed of its essential defect.
> >
> > Source? 
> 
> Wojiech Zurek.
> 
> Alice and Bob receive a pair of entangled particles.  The idea was 
> that each would make multiple copies of the quantum state of the 
> received particles.  Then, through redundancy, using statistical 
> methods, they could communicate instantaneously.  

It should be obvious that both Alice and Bob
cannot do that by themselves.

> It's a clever idea.  Later, someone proved it's impossible to clone a
> quantum state.  It fooled many people.  Though it wasn't intended as 
> a hoax, the inventors proposed it as physically permissible.

I think Zurek himself proved that.
Feynman was 'snookered'?
[still no source]

Jan


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#614532

FromRichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>
Date2023-07-05 14:27 -0700
Message-ID<12099b31-179b-4a3b-98c9-1b2c1b466456n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614525
On July 5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >> Feynman was snookered by the proposed superluminal 
>> >> communications device, supposedly based on quantum 
>> >> entanglement, utilizing quantum state replication. Until 
>> >> he was informed of its essential defect. 
> 
>>> Source? 
> 
>> Wojiech Zurek. 
>> Alice and Bob receive a pair of entangled particles. The idea was 
> > that each would make multiple copies of the quantum state of the 
> > received particles. Then, through redundancy, using statistical 
> > methods, they could communicate instantaneously.
>
> It should be obvious that both Alice and Bob 
> cannot do that by themselves.

Maybe obvious, but wrong.

Alice sends a single bit, by choosing to align her spin detector on 
the N-S axis, or E-W axis.  The receiving apparatus makes multiple 
copies of the quantum state, and multiple measurements, along 
specific angles, the same idea Bell used in his paper.  Bob can then 
infer Alice's alignment.

>> It's a clever idea. Later, someone proved it's impossible to clone a 
>> quantum state.  It fooled many people. Though it wasn't intended as a hoax
>
> I think Zurek himself proved that. 
> Feynman was 'snookered'?   [still no source] 

Zurek, in an interview.

--
Rich

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#614318

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-02 20:59 -0700
Message-ID<fd05c8e4-59ef-4ede-b64a-41b9614ffac2n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614313
On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 8:23:38 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> On 7/2/2023 8:39 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 5:24:53 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >> On 03-July-23 9:46 am, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>> He firmly asserted that light always behaves as a particle. That means its velocity is not independent of that of the source. 
> >> Run that past me again. Why does particle behaviour mean velocity is not 
> >> source independent? They look to me to be two unrelated things. 
> >> 
> >> Sylvia. 
> > Particle behavior means something shares the velocity of the source which is the opposite of independence from the velocity of the source.
> That's not part of the definition of a particle. 
> 
> Don't forget that the SR speed combination formula works for particles, 
> and at relativistic speeds the velocity is not a simple sum.
Light is always moving at relativistic speeds.

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#614323

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-07-03 00:11 -0400
Message-ID<u7thp9$3k0vo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#614318
On 7/2/2023 11:59 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 8:23:38 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> On 7/2/2023 8:39 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:

>>> Particle behavior means something shares the velocity of the source which is the opposite of independence from the velocity of the source.

>> That's not part of the definition of a particle.
>>
>> Don't forget that the SR speed combination formula works for particles,
>> and at relativistic speeds the velocity is not a simple sum.

> Light is always moving at relativistic speeds.

Exactly. The speed of light from a source moving at v is not the simple 
sum c+v but simply c.

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#614366

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-03 11:12 -0700
Message-ID<1dfd3ab5-3256-4d77-9c91-25582b6ac6c9n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614323
On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:11:24 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> On 7/2/2023 11:59 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 8:23:38 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> >> On 7/2/2023 8:39 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> 
> >>> Particle behavior means something shares the velocity of the source which is the opposite of independence from the velocity of the source. 
> 
> >> That's not part of the definition of a particle. 
> >> 
> >> Don't forget that the SR speed combination formula works for particles, 
> >> and at relativistic speeds the velocity is not a simple sum. 
> 
> > Light is always moving at relativistic speeds.
> Exactly. The speed of light from a source moving at v is not the simple 
> sum c+v but simply c.
Feynman says the opposite.

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#614372

FromTom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2023-07-03 13:27 -0500
Message-ID<GtqdnZWfWN5mjz75nZ2dnZfqlJz8fwAA@giganews.com>
In reply to#614366
On 7/3/23 1:12 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:11:24 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> The speed of light from a source moving at v is not the simple
>> sum c+v but simply c.
> Feynman says the opposite.

Provide a COMPLETE quote where he says that.

You will fail, because Feynman knew full well that light emitted from a 
moving source propagates at c, not c+v (over macroscopic distances).

Feynman said "light is particles" (or equivalent). It is YOU who added 
"therefore it moves at c+v", and it is YOU who is wrong. The "particles" 
Feynman referred to are photons, which are quantum excitations of the 
electromagnetic field; they do not act like the "particles" you are 
thinking of (e.g. billiard balls).

Tom Roberts

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#614391

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-03 13:02 -0700
Message-ID<06653faf-7029-47ac-b0e4-7d27fb7a32d3n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614372
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:27:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 7/3/23 1:12 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:11:24 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> >> The speed of light from a source moving at v is not the simple 
> >> sum c+v but simply c. 
> > Feynman says the opposite.
> Provide a COMPLETE quote where he says that. 
> 
> You will fail, because Feynman knew full well that light emitted from a 
> moving source propagates at c, not c+v (over macroscopic distances). 
> 
> Feynman said "light is particles" (or equivalent). It is YOU who added 
> "therefore it moves at c+v", and it is YOU who is wrong. The "particles" 
> Feynman referred to are photons, which are quantum excitations of the 
> electromagnetic field; they do not act like the "particles" you are 
> thinking of (e.g. billiard balls). 
> 
> Tom Roberts
I would prefer to think Feynman was not so stupid as to accept the second postulate.

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#614378

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-07-03 14:36 -0400
Message-ID<u7v4el$3ou0k$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#614366
On 7/3/2023 2:12 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:11:24 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> On 7/2/2023 11:59 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 8:23:38 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>>>> On 7/2/2023 8:39 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>
>>>>> Particle behavior means something shares the velocity of the source which is the opposite of independence from the velocity of the source.
>>
>>>> That's not part of the definition of a particle.
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget that the SR speed combination formula works for particles,
>>>> and at relativistic speeds the velocity is not a simple sum.
>>
>>> Light is always moving at relativistic speeds.
>> Exactly. The speed of light from a source moving at v is not the simple
>> sum c+v but simply c.

> Feynman says the opposite.

No, he didn't, regardless of what out-of-context mined quotes you find.

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#614306

FromPaul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-02 18:45 -0700
Message-ID<b281c6d0-baca-4f3c-916d-246e118c964fn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614301
On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 4:46:52 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:

> He firmly asserted that light always behaves as a particle. That means its velocity is not independent of that of the source.

But then there is this...

https://physics-archive.wooster.edu/JrIS/Files/Web_Article_Fuller.pdf

"With the empirical evidence brought to bear, the answer to the question “Is light a particle or a wave?” appears to be “yes.” Light has both particle and wave properties. Which property is more relevant to the situation
at hand, however, is what makes these experiments interesting. The Feynman experiment forces both properties
to be relevant. It is impossible to describe the results otherwise."

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched...

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#614308

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-02 19:15 -0700
Message-ID<d3461452-c975-45af-954b-c112ed8d7b5bn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614306
On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 6:45:04 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 4:46:52 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > He firmly asserted that light always behaves as a particle. That means its velocity is not independent of that of the source.
> But then there is this... 
> 
> https://physics-archive.wooster.edu/JrIS/Files/Web_Article_Fuller.pdf 
> 
> "With the empirical evidence brought to bear, the answer to the question “Is light a particle or a wave?” appears to be “yes.” Light has both particle and wave properties. Which property is more relevant to the situation 
> at hand, however, is what makes these experiments interesting. The Feynman experiment forces both properties 
> to be relevant. It is impossible to describe the results otherwise." 
> 
> Don't count your chickens before they are hatched...
Thank you. Very interesting. However, light cannot both share and not share the velocity of the source. If it ever shares the velocity of the source, the second postulate is falsified. The property he spoke of was shared velocity of the source.

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#614321

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-02 21:05 -0700
Message-ID<fd7cd6f6-2cb4-4b52-8481-070b49011b2an@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614306
On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 03:45:04 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 4:46:52 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > He firmly asserted that light always behaves as a particle. That means its velocity is not independent of that of the source.
> But then there is this... 
> 
> https://physics-archive.wooster.edu/JrIS/Files/Web_Article_Fuller.pdf 
> 
> "With the empirical evidence brought to bear, the answer to the question “Is light a particle or a wave?” appears to be “yes.” Light has both particle and wave properties. 

The logic of an idiot, as expected from an idiot. 
To be wave, light would have to have ALL
properties of wave, not just some of them.
Does it have them?
To be particles, light would have to have ALL
properties of particles, not just some of them.
Does it have them?

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#614327

FromPaul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-02 21:34 -0700
Message-ID<7f7fd840-41ac-444d-9750-70c50c1cb1b9n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614321
On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:05:26 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

> To be wave, light would have to have ALL 
> properties of wave, not just some of them. 
> Does it have them? 
> To be particles, light would have to have ALL 
> properties of particles, not just some of them. 
> Does it have them?

It is statements like this that move me to advise you not to post here anymore, Woz. You simply don't know shit about relativity!

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#614330

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-02 21:49 -0700
Message-ID<b16ddc88-57f3-45dc-812d-97e7f3644414n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614327
On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 06:34:23 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:05:26 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> 
> > To be wave, light would have to have ALL 
> > properties of wave, not just some of them. 
> > Does it have them? 
> > To be particles, light would have to have ALL 
> > properties of particles, not just some of them. 
> > Does it have them?
> It is statements like this that move me to advise you not to post here anymore, Woz. You simply don't know shit about relativity!

You're an idiot, but I bet you still can guess how
much your advice means to me. And know enough 
to prove your mumble to be inconsistent.

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#614367

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-03 11:15 -0700
Message-ID<7a93df4f-3a13-42fb-89c1-a82d2e34349bn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614327
On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:34:23 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:05:26 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> 
> > To be wave, light would have to have ALL 
> > properties of wave, not just some of them. 
> > Does it have them? 
> > To be particles, light would have to have ALL 
> > properties of particles, not just some of them. 
> > Does it have them?
> It is statements like this that move me to advise you not to post here anymore, Woz. You simply don't know shit about relativity!
By the same token, why don't you set an example and stop posting here?

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#614379

Fromwhodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com>
Date2023-07-03 13:38 -0500
Message-ID<kggiscF88a7U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614367
On 7/3/2023 1:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:34:23 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:05:26 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>
>>> To be wave, light would have to have ALL
>>> properties of wave, not just some of them.
>>> Does it have them?
>>> To be particles, light would have to have ALL
>>> properties of particles, not just some of them.
>>> Does it have them?

>> It is statements like this that move me to advise you not to post here anymore, Woz. You simply don't know shit about relativity!

> By the same token, why don't you set an example and stop posting here?

So you can't stand the competition.

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#614392

FromLaurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com>
Date2023-07-03 13:03 -0700
Message-ID<09c89f9c-b9cf-4c5c-a737-dda6c16d4ad9n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614379
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> On 7/3/2023 1:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:34:23 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote: 
> >> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:05:26 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> To be wave, light would have to have ALL 
> >>> properties of wave, not just some of them. 
> >>> Does it have them? 
> >>> To be particles, light would have to have ALL 
> >>> properties of particles, not just some of them. 
> >>> Does it have them? 
> 
> >> It is statements like this that move me to advise you not to post here anymore, Woz. You simply don't know shit about relativity! 
> 
> > By the same token, why don't you set an example and stop posting here?
> So you can't stand the competition.
You aren't competition. You're not even in a scientific league. Go back to business consulting.

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#614400

Fromwhodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com>
Date2023-07-03 16:10 -0500
Message-ID<kggrqpF9bq1U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614392
On 7/3/2023 3:03 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
>> On 7/3/2023 1:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:34:23 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:05:26 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> To be wave, light would have to have ALL
>>>>> properties of wave, not just some of them.
>>>>> Does it have them?
>>>>> To be particles, light would have to have ALL
>>>>> properties of particles, not just some of them.
>>>>> Does it have them?
>>
>>>> It is statements like this that move me to advise you not to post here anymore, Woz. You simply don't know shit about relativity!

>>> By the same token, why don't you set an example and stop posting here?

>> So you can't stand the competition.

> You aren't competition. 

Oh but I am. You show us that in the way you reply.

You're not even in a scientific league. Go back to business consulting.

ibid. You cannot stand the competition.

So what precisely is "a scientific league?" Based on your
postings in your most recent iterations of pseudonyms you
certainly don't have any understanding of the scientific
topics you propound. You seem to think you're reaching for
the stars but you don't understand the basics of science
taught to high school students.

You lash out like this whenever the discussion gets too
close to the truths you cannot deal with. Take a deep breath
and deal with (accept) the realities that provide you so much
discomfort.

You have (and had) an opportunity to advance science. Instead
you've wasted everyone's time rehashing long disproved ideas.

Shame on you!

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#614324

FromTom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2023-07-02 23:19 -0500
Message-ID<kkKdnfidyL_50T_5nZ2dnZfqlJ9j4p2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#614301
Feynman did NOT "reject the second postulate". His discussion is much
more nuanced, but you are too stupid and have not bothered to to
understand it.

On 7/2/23 6:46 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> He firmly asserted that light always behaves as a particle.

Yes. And he also asserted that in certain physical situations,
light can mimic wave-like behavior (interference, refraction, etc.).

> That means its velocity is not independent of that of the source.

No. Because the "particle" he meant is a photon, which is a quantum
excitation of the electromagnetic field. In particular, light does NOT
behave like "little billiard balls", it behaves as modeled by QED, which
is very much more complicated. It is quite clear that over macroscopic
distances in vacuum, light propagates with speed c relative to any
(locally) inertial frame, because literally zillions of experiments have
demonstrated that.

Bottom line: it simply does not matter what Feynman, Einstein, or
anybody else said or did, what matters is how modern theoretical physics
models the behavior of light, elementary particles, and everything else.
For that, within the domains of the various models, modern theoretical
physics does an excellent job.

Tom Roberts

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#614336

FromAthel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-03 09:22 +0200
Message-ID<kgfb8sF2dieU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#614301
On 2023-07-02 23:46:49 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

> He firmly asserted that light always behaves as a particle. That means 
> its velocity is not independent of that of the source.

Feynman devoted three chapters (15–17) of volume 1 of Lectures on 
Physics to explaining relativity. Why do you suppose he did that if he 
believed what the crackpots say?

-- 
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

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#614337

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-03 00:26 -0700
Message-ID<76151140-1115-4401-bec7-7c8569ff0675n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#614336
On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 09:22:09 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-07-02 23:46:49 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said: 
> 
> > He firmly asserted that light always behaves as a particle. That means 
> > its velocity is not independent of that of the source.
> Feynman devoted three chapters (15–17) of volume 1 of Lectures on 
> Physics to explaining relativity.

Did he also explain why it is inconsistent?

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