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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #358787 > unrolled thread

Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System

Started byLofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com>
First post2015-07-26 23:44 -0500
Last post2015-07-28 22:01 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 97 — 16 participants

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  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-07-26 23:44 -0500
    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-07-27 22:52 +0000
      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-07-28 16:41 -0400
        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-01 12:32 +0200
          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-02 15:51 -0400
            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-02 20:29 +0000
            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:12 +0200
              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 00:07 +0000
                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-02 19:32 -0700
                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-03 12:17 -0400
                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 19:00 +0200
                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Bohuš Matuška <bohu@paranetnet.net> - 2015-08-03 18:01 +0000
                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 20:31 +0200
                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Bohuš Matuška <bohu@paranetnet.net> - 2015-08-03 19:28 +0000
                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 18:01 +0000
                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-03 19:47 -0700
                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-03 14:52 -0400
                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 23:00 +0200
                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Ignorant Raving Crackpot <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 14:32 -0700
                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-06 10:36 -0400
                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 07:58 +0200
                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 08:35 +0200
                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-07 10:13 -0400
                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 00:26 +0200
                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-07 22:25 -0400
                                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 07:14 +0200
                                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-08 05:44 +0000
                                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-08 13:23 +0000
                                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-08 10:16 -0400
                                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-08 10:34 -0400
                                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 10:47 +0200
                                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 17:09 +0000
                                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-09 17:24 +0000
                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 17:56 +0000
                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 20:05 +0200
                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 18:44 +0000
                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-09 19:08 +0000
                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:49 +0200
                                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 19:53 +0200
                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 18:47 +0000
                                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-09 17:52 -0400
                                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 00:07 +0200
                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 22:33 +0000
                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-09 22:55 +0000
                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-09 22:58 +0000
                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:54 +0200
                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 17:38 +0000
                                                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-10 18:07 +0000
                                                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 01:11 +0200
                                                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 23:28 +0000
                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-09 20:43 -0400
                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:55 +0200
                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 11:01 +0200
                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-10 09:32 -0400
                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 17:42 +0000
                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 11:38 -0400
                                                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 23:00 +0200
                                                    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-11 22:27 +0000
                                                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 22:12 -0400
                                                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-11 20:05 -0700
                                                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-12 23:32 -0500
                                                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:32 +0200
                                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:30 -0500
                                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:11 +0000
                                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 08:23 -0500
                                                                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:28 +0000
                                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:20 +0200
                                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:22 +0000
                                                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:24 -0500
                                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:10 +0200
                                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:15 +0000
                                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:21 +0200
                                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 06:24 -0700
                                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:31 +0000
                                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-13 19:02 -0700
                                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-13 19:07 -0700
                                                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-13 16:26 -0400
                                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Ignorant Raving Crackpot <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 14:13 -0700
                                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 16:35 -0500
                                                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-13 21:52 -0400
                                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Ignorant Raving Crackpot <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 21:46 -0700
                                                                Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 07:42 -0500
                                                                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-14 14:04 -0400
                                                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 16:02 -0700
                                                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-13 18:57 -0700
                                                        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) - 2015-08-13 12:27 -0400
                                                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 22:20 -0400
                                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 11:39 +0200
                                      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 12:42 +0200
                          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 14:40 -0400
                            Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 22:35 +0200
                              Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-12 21:56 -0400
                  Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 17:57 +0000
      Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-07-30 11:03 -0400
        Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-08-04 03:10 -0400
          Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-04 17:24 +0000
    Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System wobbly <wobbly@dont-email.me> - 2015-07-28 22:01 +0000

Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next page →


#360151

FromJackpol11@hotmail.com
Date2015-08-09 17:52 -0400
Message-ID<kehfsah4rnit0u3al1hura5kkjpdd16cbh@4ax.com>
In reply to#360077
On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:47:32 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Dne 08/08/2015 v 16:34 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
>>>
>>> You semm do not know how they work until now yet,
>>> as they measure the cosines.
>
>> (Taki osel!)
>
>
>
>> One more shot: signals are sent to the windings at 400 cps. The X coil
>> gets the X signal component and the Y coil gets the Y signal component
>> on the rotor.
>> The stator also has an X and Y coil. which if the angle is 0 on the
>> shaft, then X' and Y' equal X and Y. 
>> Clearly if the shaft is rotated by angle a, the transmitted opponents
>> rearrange themselves exactly as if you  had performed a 3 x 3 rotation
>> matrix on the input. you get correct values of X' and Y'.
>> You failed to see that the resolvers take all the work out of it and
>> the required matrix transformations are taken care of by simply
>> installing resolvers. Nobody gives a damn about the cosines.
>> John Polasek
>> 
>You still do not get the way
>how the cosines are involved.
>
>They are involved where positions are determined by angles,
>and where  Cartesian coordinates are not used,
>but cylindrical or spherical ones.
(Taki snop!)
What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of
analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not
experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines
that you can stuff into a digital computer.
The pure analog is this: picture a chart with the X and Y axis drawn
horizontally and vertically called X and Y and by pure analog, a
resolver with 2 coils called X and Y orthogonally situated. When
currents enter the X and Y input coils, they create a magnetic vector
V between the 2 coils. By transformer action, the X' and Y' coils, in
the secondary, resolve V into their own components in their coordinate
set. Everything required by the stable platform is delivered nicely to
each of the axes.
No one has to lift a finger-the tricky job is done and they let God do
it.
The signals that are resolved are error signals generated by the
gyroscopes on the stable platform, because as the plane maneuvers, the
gimbal axes have to turn against friction tending to tip the platform.
The correct torques are automatically applied through the resolver
chain to counter this. 
Consequently we have the ideal situation of an inertial platform Fixed
in inertial space from which we can integrate on the East-West the
north-south accelerometers, with no problem.
The vertical axis of the stable platform needs to shift to keep a
local vertical, which changes as we go, and therefore the gyros are
torqued by current proportional to the integrated velocity = V/R. The
result is as the plane goes along, the earth vector is changing and
the platform keeps up.
John Polasek

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#360153

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-10 00:07 +0200
Message-ID<mq8irl$868$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#360151
Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):

> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of
> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not
> experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines
> that you can stuff into a digital computer.

Why do you think trigonometric functions
are not involved in analogue systems ?
They are, and even better than in digital ones,
as they are analogue continuous functions.

You would know it, if you were more experienced
in analogue systems... :-P

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

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#360157

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-08-09 22:33 +0000
Message-ID<921l9c-tnb.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#360153
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
> 
>> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of
>> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not
>> experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines
>> that you can stuff into a digital computer.
> 
> Why do you think trigonometric functions
> are not involved in analogue systems ?
> They are, and even better than in digital ones,
> as they are analogue continuous functions.

Utter, babbling, ignorant, nonsense.

No analog system has infinite resolution.

The "better" depends on the resolution and accuracy of the computational
elements.

> You would know it, if you were more experienced
> in analogue systems... :-P

Like you have ever seen an analog computer.

 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#360159

FromFelipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org>
Date2015-08-09 22:55 +0000
Message-ID<mq8lp6$fal$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#360157
jimp wrote:

> In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
>> 
>>> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of
>>> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not
>>> experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines
>>> that you can stuff into a digital computer.
>> 
>> Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue
>> systems ?
>> They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
> 
> Utter, babbling, ignorant, nonsense.

Agree.

> No analog system has infinite resolution.

All sensors exploit a form of analogue physical/chemical effects or 
interaction. The DSP part may or may not be integrated, nevertheless 
present along the ulterior stages.

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#360160

FromFelipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org>
Date2015-08-09 22:58 +0000
Message-ID<mq8lvd$fgg$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#360153
> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
> 
>> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of
>> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not
>> experienced,
>> because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines that you can
>> stuff into a digital computer.

Actually cosines are not used, but arctangent

> Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue
> systems ? They are, and even better than in digital ones,
> as they are analogue continuous functions.
> 
> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue systems...
> :-P

Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What
other systems out there?

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#360192

FromPoutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-10 10:54 +0200
Message-ID<mq9ooo$j14$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#360160
On 08/10/2015 12:58 AM, Felipe Delgado wrote:
>> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
>>
> 
>> Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue
>> systems ? They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
>>
>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue systems...
>> :-P
> 
> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What
> other systems out there?
> 

Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed.

Do you really think that
e.g. the radio receiver antenne calculates anything
regarding its angle wrt to radio EM wave propagation ?


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

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#360227

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-08-10 17:38 +0000
Message-ID<u44n9c-u0k.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#360192
In sci.physics Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/10/2015 12:58 AM, Felipe Delgado wrote:
>>> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
>>>
>> 
>>> Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue
>>> systems ? They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
>>>
>>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue systems...
>>> :-P
>> 
>> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What
>> other systems out there?
>> 
> 
> Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed.

If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly
need to do a lot of calculations somehow.

> Do you really think that
> e.g. the radio receiver antenne calculates anything
> regarding its angle wrt to radio EM wave propagation ?

Irrelevant.
 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#360230

FromFelipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org>
Date2015-08-10 18:07 +0000
Message-ID<mqap9c$54o$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#360227
jimp wrote:

>>>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue
>>>> systems...
>>>> :-P
>>> 
>>> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What
>>> other systems out there?
>>> 
>>> 
>> Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed.
> 
> If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly need
> to do a lot of calculations somehow.

He won't need, he is an impertinent know-nothing idiot. A cretin.

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#360277

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-11 01:11 +0200
Message-ID<mqbav5$oa6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#360230
Dne 10/08/2015 v 20:07 Felipe Delgado napsal(a):
> jimp wrote:
> 
>>>>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue
>>>>> systems...
>>>>> :-P
>>>>
>>>> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What
>>>> other systems out there?
>>>>
>>> Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed.
>>
>> If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly need
>> to do a lot of calculations somehow.
> 
> He won't need, he is an impertinent know-nothing idiot. A cretin.
> 

Intelligence of people is best observed in way
how they speak about others.

BTW, there was an era of analogue computers.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

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#360280

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-08-10 23:28 +0000
Message-ID<plon9c-mdm.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#360277
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dne 10/08/2015 v 20:07 Felipe Delgado napsal(a):
>> jimp wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue
>>>>>> systems...
>>>>>> :-P
>>>>>
>>>>> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What
>>>>> other systems out there?
>>>>>
>>>> Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed.
>>>
>>> If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly need
>>> to do a lot of calculations somehow.
>> 
>> He won't need, he is an impertinent know-nothing idiot. A cretin.
>> 
> 
> Intelligence of people is best observed in way
> how they speak about others.
> 
> BTW, there was an era of analogue computers.

No shit; that era being roughly 100 BC until the end of the 20th Century.

Did you just learn that from a web search?

Would it surprise you to learn analog computers are still used in
some applications? 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#360165

FromJackpol11@hotmail.com
Date2015-08-09 20:43 -0400
Message-ID<bpsfsat6604dduda952ug3b228m03k61m4@4ax.com>
In reply to#360153
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 00:07:19 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
>
>> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of
>> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not
>> experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines
>> that you can stuff into a digital computer.
>
>Why do you think trigonometric functions
>are not involved in analogue systems ?
>They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>as they are analogue continuous functions.
>
>You would know it, if you were more experienced
>in analogue systems... :-P
I think my work here is done.
John Polasek

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#360193

FromPoutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-10 10:55 +0200
Message-ID<mq9orp$j14$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#360165
On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Why do you think trigonometric functions
>> are not involved in analogue systems ?
>> They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
>>
>> You would know it, if you were more experienced
>> in analogue systems... :-P

> I think my work here is done.
> John Polasek

Here maybe,
but add the reference for your wikipedia article modification.


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

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#360194

FromPoutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-10 11:01 +0200
Message-ID<mq9p6s$kl0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#360165
On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Why do you think trigonometric functions
>> are not involved in analogue systems ?
>> They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
>>

> I think my work here is done.
> John Polasek

I hope not.

Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ).

I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems.

I just wanted to point out that not all
is like them today, in both high and low ends.....


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

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#360209

FromJackpol11@hotmail.com
Date2015-08-10 09:32 -0400
Message-ID<3u9hsa94c0m1gmq4git934d559kp0v5638@4ax.com>
In reply to#360194
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:01:50 +0200, Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Why do you think trigonometric functions
>>> are not involved in analogue systems ?
>>> They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
>>>
>
>> I think my work here is done.
>> John Polasek
>
>I hope not.
>
>Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ).
>
>I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems.
>
>I just wanted to point out that not all
>is like them today, in both high and low ends.....
To je leps^i, synko!
John Polasek

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#360228

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-08-10 17:42 +0000
Message-ID<gc4n9c-u0k.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#360194
In sci.physics Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Why do you think trigonometric functions
>>> are not involved in analogue systems ?
>>> They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
>>>
> 
>> I think my work here is done.
>> John Polasek
> 
> I hope not.
> 
> Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ).
> 
> I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems.
> 
> I just wanted to point out that not all
> is like them today, in both high and low ends.....
 
The underlying physics and mathematics is independant of the hardware
implementation.

 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#360336

FromJackpol11@hotmail.com
Date2015-08-11 11:38 -0400
Message-ID<dj5ksap8amodp05bens76j9bb3so90nfbl@4ax.com>
In reply to#360194
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:01:50 +0200, Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Why do you think trigonometric functions
>>> are not involved in analogue systems ?
>>> They are, and even better than in digital ones,
>>> as they are analogue continuous functions.
>>>
>
>> I think my work here is done.
>> John Polasek
>
>I hope not.
>
>Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ).
>
>I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems.
>
>I just wanted to point out that not all
>is like them today, in both high and low ends.....
That reminds me of the time (1972?) I was hired by a company  to
digitize their analog aircraft something simulator. There was a very
large schematic with  op-amp integrators (they may have used homemade
op-amps). There were about a half-dozen resolvers and the guy
explained to me they didn't know what to do with them.
So I figured out the proper matrix equations for each resolver that
could then be used in the digital version.
But, notice, the thing was working before I wrote any equations. Just
put a resolver wherever there's an axle that turns and the job is
done. 
The originating resolver forms a magnetic vector V, from the inputs X
and Y (like you would do with a straight edge on paper) and that same
magnetic V is properly dissected by the secondary coils into the 2
true geometric components in the next coordinates set offset by that
angle. 
(redundancy noted)
John Polasek

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#360390

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-11 23:00 +0200
Message-ID<mqdnmp$9ut$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#360336
Dne 11/08/2015 v 17:38 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):

> That reminds me of the time (1972?) I was hired by a company  to
> digitize their analog aircraft something simulator. There was a very
> large schematic with  op-amp integrators (they may have used homemade
> op-amps). There were about a half-dozen resolvers and the guy
> explained to me they didn't know what to do with them.
> So I figured out the proper matrix equations for each resolver that
> could then be used in the digital version.
> But, notice, the thing was working before I wrote any equations. Just
> put a resolver wherever there's an axle that turns and the job is
> done. 
> The originating resolver forms a magnetic vector V, from the inputs X
> and Y (like you would do with a straight edge on paper) and that same
> magnetic V is properly dissected by the secondary coils into the 2
> true geometric components in the next coordinates set offset by that
> angle. 
> (redundancy noted)
> John Polasek
> 
I was 7 years old than..

http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02253.png

What I previously wanted to point out was,
that resolver is an elementary segment
of eventually more complex analog computer.

It produces at stator coils
voltage proportional to sinus, resp. cosinus of the angle,
that can be processed by other analog modules.

I think there could be previously misunderstanding
that I was going to work with cosines in digital computer.

I remember early 80s when I was on technical high school
and 2 of our enthusiastic professors
presented to our class a working analog computer:
2 big boxes, full of connectors and cables,
with few osciloscope or TV screens.

Wit op amps, some basic operations can be easily achieved.



-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

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#360400

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-08-11 22:27 +0000
Message-ID<re9q9c-hr2.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#360390
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dne 11/08/2015 v 17:38 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
> 
>> That reminds me of the time (1972?) I was hired by a company  to
>> digitize their analog aircraft something simulator. There was a very
>> large schematic with  op-amp integrators (they may have used homemade
>> op-amps). There were about a half-dozen resolvers and the guy
>> explained to me they didn't know what to do with them.
>> So I figured out the proper matrix equations for each resolver that
>> could then be used in the digital version.
>> But, notice, the thing was working before I wrote any equations. Just
>> put a resolver wherever there's an axle that turns and the job is
>> done. 
>> The originating resolver forms a magnetic vector V, from the inputs X
>> and Y (like you would do with a straight edge on paper) and that same
>> magnetic V is properly dissected by the secondary coils into the 2
>> true geometric components in the next coordinates set offset by that
>> angle. 
>> (redundancy noted)
>> John Polasek
>> 
> I was 7 years old than..
> 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02253.png
> 
> What I previously wanted to point out was,
> that resolver is an elementary segment
> of eventually more complex analog computer.

Maybe or maybe doing something else such as generating a radar PPI
display.

> It produces at stator coils
> voltage proportional to sinus, resp. cosinus of the angle,
> that can be processed by other analog modules.

If you have sinus issues, try an antihistamine; no idea what to do
for a cosinus issue.
 
> I think there could be previously misunderstanding
> that I was going to work with cosines in digital computer.
> 
> I remember early 80s when I was on technical high school
> and 2 of our enthusiastic professors
> presented to our class a working analog computer:
> 2 big boxes, full of connectors and cables,
> with few osciloscope or TV screens.
> 
> Wit op amps, some basic operations can be easily achieved.

I remember the mid 60's when I was introduced to the Nike-Hercules
fire control computer that solved the differential intercept equations
in real time.

It had 78 tube based op amps and used motor driven zero set switches,
AKA chopper stabilizers, to eliminate drift.


-- 
Jim Pennino

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#360418

FromJackpol11@hotmail.com
Date2015-08-11 22:12 -0400
Message-ID<fi9lsa595l8cs1gqfqf163ilppsjttg08b@4ax.com>
In reply to#360400
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:27:07 -0000, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:

>In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dne 11/08/2015 v 17:38 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
>> 
>>> That reminds me of the time (1972?) I was hired by a company  to
>>> digitize their analog aircraft something simulator. There was a very
>>> large schematic with  op-amp integrators (they may have used homemade
>>> op-amps). There were about a half-dozen resolvers and the guy
>>> explained to me they didn't know what to do with them.
>>> So I figured out the proper matrix equations for each resolver that
>>> could then be used in the digital version.
>>> But, notice, the thing was working before I wrote any equations. Just
>>> put a resolver wherever there's an axle that turns and the job is
>>> done. 
>>> The originating resolver forms a magnetic vector V, from the inputs X
>>> and Y (like you would do with a straight edge on paper) and that same
>>> magnetic V is properly dissected by the secondary coils into the 2
>>> true geometric components in the next coordinates set offset by that
>>> angle. 
>>> (redundancy noted)
>>> John Polasek
>>> 
>> I was 7 years old than..
>> 
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02253.png
>> 
>> What I previously wanted to point out was,
>> that resolver is an elementary segment
>> of eventually more complex analog computer.
>
>Maybe or maybe doing something else such as generating a radar PPI
>display.
>
>> It produces at stator coils
>> voltage proportional to sinus, resp. cosinus of the angle,
>> that can be processed by other analog modules.
>
>If you have sinus issues, try an antihistamine; no idea what to do
>for a cosinus issue.
> 
>> I think there could be previously misunderstanding
>> that I was going to work with cosines in digital computer.
>> 
>> I remember early 80s when I was on technical high school
>> and 2 of our enthusiastic professors
>> presented to our class a working analog computer:
>> 2 big boxes, full of connectors and cables,
>> with few osciloscope or TV screens.
>> 
>> Wit op amps, some basic operations can be easily achieved.
>
>I remember the mid 60's when I was introduced to the Nike-Hercules
>fire control computer that solved the differential intercept equations
>in real time.
>
>It had 78 tube based op amps and used motor driven zero set switches,
>AKA chopper stabilizers, to eliminate drift.
These inertial guidance systems  I worked on,  all of the signals were
400 cycle AC which had to be rectified before integrating, then
possibly re-modulated for further use. The synchros and resolvers
required 400 cps. With this frequency less iron was required in the
transformers, but higher frequencies would be bothered by the
capacitance of the coils, approaching self resonance.
These inertial guidancesystems went into ICBMs that stood vertically
with the inertial platform on top. To align the platform into the
plane of the target, a theodolite beam was sent up to a Porro prism
and adjustments were made. This prism is sensitive only on one axis.

I was given the task ofcalculating the azimuth errors resulting from
tilts on the pitch and roll axes (which were supposedly neutralized
out). 
As a result I finally wrote a complicated paper in the Journal of the
Optical Society JOSA October 1967 "Matrix analysis of gimbaled mirror
and prism systems)". (For $45 you can get a copy.) 
That is certainly one of the drawbacks of the "peer-reviewed" system.
Essentially nobody gets to see it.
John Polasek

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#360420

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2015-08-11 20:05 -0700
Message-ID<bb981748-ebe9-4436-92f1-5bd66b64b749@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#360418
On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 9:12:08 PM UTC-5, Jack...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:27:07 -0000, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> 
> >In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Dne 11/08/2015 v 17:38 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a):
> >> 
> >>> That reminds me of the time (1972?) I was hired by a company  to
> >>> digitize their analog aircraft something simulator. There was a very
> >>> large schematic with  op-amp integrators (they may have used homemade
> >>> op-amps). There were about a half-dozen resolvers and the guy
> >>> explained to me they didn't know what to do with them.
> >>> So I figured out the proper matrix equations for each resolver that
> >>> could then be used in the digital version.
> >>> But, notice, the thing was working before I wrote any equations. Just
> >>> put a resolver wherever there's an axle that turns and the job is
> >>> done. 
> >>> The originating resolver forms a magnetic vector V, from the inputs X
> >>> and Y (like you would do with a straight edge on paper) and that same
> >>> magnetic V is properly dissected by the secondary coils into the 2
> >>> true geometric components in the next coordinates set offset by that
> >>> angle. 
> >>> (redundancy noted)
> >>> John Polasek
> >>> 
> >> I was 7 years old than..
> >> 
> >> http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02253.png
> >> 
> >> What I previously wanted to point out was,
> >> that resolver is an elementary segment
> >> of eventually more complex analog computer.
> >
> >Maybe or maybe doing something else such as generating a radar PPI
> >display.
> >
> >> It produces at stator coils
> >> voltage proportional to sinus, resp. cosinus of the angle,
> >> that can be processed by other analog modules.
> >
> >If you have sinus issues, try an antihistamine; no idea what to do
> >for a cosinus issue.
> > 
> >> I think there could be previously misunderstanding
> >> that I was going to work with cosines in digital computer.
> >> 
> >> I remember early 80s when I was on technical high school
> >> and 2 of our enthusiastic professors
> >> presented to our class a working analog computer:
> >> 2 big boxes, full of connectors and cables,
> >> with few osciloscope or TV screens.
> >> 
> >> Wit op amps, some basic operations can be easily achieved.
> >
> >I remember the mid 60's when I was introduced to the Nike-Hercules
> >fire control computer that solved the differential intercept equations
> >in real time.
> >
> >It had 78 tube based op amps and used motor driven zero set switches,
> >AKA chopper stabilizers, to eliminate drift.
> These inertial guidance systems  I worked on,  all of the signals were
> 400 cycle AC which had to be rectified before integrating, then
> possibly re-modulated for further use. The synchros and resolvers
> required 400 cps. With this frequency less iron was required in the
> transformers, but higher frequencies would be bothered by the
> capacitance of the coils, approaching self resonance.
> These inertial guidancesystems went into ICBMs that stood vertically
> with the inertial platform on top. To align the platform into the
> plane of the target, a theodolite beam was sent up to a Porro prism
> and adjustments were made. This prism is sensitive only on one axis.
> 
> I was given the task ofcalculating the azimuth errors resulting from
> tilts on the pitch and roll axes (which were supposedly neutralized
> out). 
> As a result I finally wrote a complicated paper in the Journal of the
> Optical Society JOSA October 1967 "Matrix analysis of gimbaled mirror
> and prism systems)". (For $45 you can get a copy.) 
> That is certainly one of the drawbacks of the "peer-reviewed" system.
> Essentially nobody gets to see it.
> John Polasek

Yes, there will be more free information disseminated in the next 10 years which will equal all the pay per view ever created. 

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