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Black holes don't exist in reality

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  Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-04 17:37 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-05 05:14 +0200
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-05 10:38 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 00:52 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-05 20:39 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 07:46 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-06 12:33 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 22:49 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 14:18 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-06 15:02 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 15:37 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-07 04:37 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-07 13:07 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-07 14:56 -0700
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 12:05 +0200
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-08 04:12 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 10:21 +0200
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 15:19 +0200
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:34 -0700
                              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 00:11 +0200
                                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 22:55 -0700
                                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 00:54 +0200
                                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-12 16:20 -0700
                                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 17:17 -0700
                                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 02:40 +0200
                                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-14 20:07 -0700
                                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 09:30 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-10 19:56 +0200
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-10 11:09 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 05:50 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-29 21:09 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-29 21:12 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 02:33 +0200
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-10 18:00 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-11 15:21 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 14:03 +0000
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-11 21:34 +0200
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 12:57 -0700
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 20:50 +0000
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 14:00 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-11 23:27 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-06 19:39 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 20:08 +0200
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 13:21 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Haných Ltskáš <lnni@yawlucla.ha> - 2018-09-06 20:24 +0000
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 14:19 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-07 04:30 +0200
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-08 09:55 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 19:56 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-08 12:10 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 21:29 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-08 12:50 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 12:56 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-09 14:05 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 02:28 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:40 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 00:14 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 13:15 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 23:29 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 07:40 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 09:50 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 11:09 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 12:19 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 18:52 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 09:04 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 16:26 +0000
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:45 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-13 17:07 +0000
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-12 22:58 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 21:18 +0000
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 17:16 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:56 -0700
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:54 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-14 05:13 +0200
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 06:34 -0700
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-14 19:05 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:37 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-08 14:59 -0500
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 15:54 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 09:28 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-16 09:11 -0500
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-16 18:21 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 17:58 +0000
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 12:50 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-10 21:35 +0000
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 14:54 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 16:35 +0000
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 11:13 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 12:58 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-12 13:27 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 23:15 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 18:02 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 18:44 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 04:39 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 19:48 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality consequently7990662@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 20:10 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 10:14 +0200
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality consequently7990662@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 15:42 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 16:57 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 17:06 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 20:21 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 20:58 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 21:20 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 21:20 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 14:20 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-19 23:54 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 15:20 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-21 23:50 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:10 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 15:34 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-19 17:37 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 19:36 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 15:25 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 14:57 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-22 00:24 +0200
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-21 22:42 +0000
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-21 23:08 +0000
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:15 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-20 15:02 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-20 15:11 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-20 15:16 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:08 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-22 16:18 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-22 20:40 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-22 20:46 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-22 23:36 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-23 15:42 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-23 15:50 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-25 17:06 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-25 18:43 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-25 18:53 -0700
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-25 19:09 -0700

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#470498 — Black holes don't exist in reality

We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that 
we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.


Einstein and Hawking both went against singularities.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#470509

Am 05.09.2018 um 02:37 schrieb mitchrae3323@gmail.com:
> We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
> short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
> won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that
> we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
> 

If you apply a Lorentz transform to a coordinate system and turn the 
axis of time from - say - vertical to - say - a little to the right, the 
axis' x,y and z of the coordinate system are kind or 'squeezed' together.

Since the three axis x, y and z of space represent space (OUR!!! space), 
the turning of the axis of time would create a situation, which is 
called 'black hole'.

Since this picture is based on General Relativity and that on gravity, 
the explanation for 'black holes' is usually gravity, while in fact it 
is an effect caused by the deviation of the axis of time away from our 
own time into an invisible realm.

That 'bending of time' is actually, what causes the space associated to 
be 'squeezed' and to be bent away to apparently disappear in a black hole.

But this is more or less an optical illusion, since seen from  a black 
hole would look like  as if WE (planet Earth) would vanish in a black 
hole, what we clearly do not do.

So in a way you are right and black holes do not really exist, even if 
it looks like as if they would.

That is more like other visual effects (e.g. a mirage), where you could 
eventually see a city floating in the sky. But that is not real, it only 
looks like.


TH

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#470542

On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 8:14:43 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 05.09.2018 um 02:37 schrieb mitchrae3323@gmail.com:
> > We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
> > short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
> > won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that
> > we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
> > 
> 
> If you apply a Lorentz transform to a coordinate system and turn the 
> axis of time from - say - vertical to - say - a little to the right, the 
> axis' x,y and z of the coordinate system are kind or 'squeezed' together.
> 
> Since the three axis x, y and z of space represent space (OUR!!! space), 
> the turning of the axis of time would create a situation, which is 
> called 'black hole'.
> 
> Since this picture is based on General Relativity and that on gravity, 
> the explanation for 'black holes' is usually gravity, while in fact it 
> is an effect caused by the deviation of the axis of time away from our 
> own time into an invisible realm.
> 
> That 'bending of time' is actually, what causes the space associated to 
> be 'squeezed' and to be bent away to apparently disappear in a black hole.
> 
> But this is more or less an optical illusion, since seen from  a black 
> hole would look like  as if WE (planet Earth) would vanish in a black 
> hole, what we clearly do not do.
> 
> So in a way you are right and black holes do not really exist, even if 
> it looks like as if they would.
> 
> That is more like other visual effects (e.g. a mirage), where you could 
> eventually see a city floating in the sky. But that is not real, it only 
> looks like.
> 
> 
> TH

Time cannot end. There can be no black hole.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#470587

Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 05.09.2018 um 02:37 schrieb mitchrae3323@gmail.com:
>> We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
>> short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
>> won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that
>> we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
> 
> If you apply a Lorentz transform to a coordinate system and turn the 
> axis of time from - say - vertical to - say - a little to the right, the 
> axis' x,y and z of the coordinate system are kind or 'squeezed' together.
> 
> Since the three axis x, y and z of space represent space (OUR!!! space), 
> the turning of the axis of time would create a situation, which is 
> called 'black hole'.

Utter nonsense, not even wrong.  Why do you keep writing about things
that you have no clue about as if you had one?  What’s the point?

Black holes are a feature in *curved* spacetime only.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470606

On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 3:52:13 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
> > Am 05.09.2018 um 02:37 schrieb mitchrae3323@gmail.com:
> >> We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
> >> short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
> >> won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that
> >> we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
> > 
> > If you apply a Lorentz transform to a coordinate system and turn the 
> > axis of time from - say - vertical to - say - a little to the right, the 
> > axis' x,y and z of the coordinate system are kind or 'squeezed' together.
> > 
> > Since the three axis x, y and z of space represent space (OUR!!! space), 
> > the turning of the axis of time would create a situation, which is 
> > called 'black hole'.
> 
> Utter nonsense, not even wrong.  Why do you keep writing about things
> that you have no clue about as if you had one?  What’s the point?
>

We are seeing something else as black hole theory has failed...

Mitchell Raemsch

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#470609

mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> We are seeing something else as black hole theory has failed...

Your statements are evidence that you are delusional, so whatever
you see is not reality.

To begin with, there is no “black hole theory”.  Black holes are an
inevitable consequence of (the) general (theory of) relativity.

<https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180730090158.htm>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_black_hole_physics>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470653

On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 10:46:34 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> > We are seeing something else as black hole theory has failed...
> 
> Your statements are evidence that you are delusional, so whatever
> you see is not reality.

Prove that nothing is wrong Tommy Boy...

Why did Hawking say event horizons were a problem?
and that there could only be dim holes...
His 2015 paper was titled "No Black Holes"



> 
> To begin with, there is no “black hole theory”.  Black holes are an
> inevitable consequence of (the) general (theory of) relativity.

Wrong Tom... black holes are the extreme end of gravity theory...

> 
> <https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180730090158.htm>
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_black_hole_physics>
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#470666

mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 10:46:34 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>>> We are seeing something else as black hole theory has failed...
>> Your statements are evidence that you are delusional, so whatever
>> you see is not reality.
> 
> Prove that nothing is wrong Tommy Boy...

I beg your pardon?

> Why did Hawking say event horizons were a problem?

Because of the black hole information paradox: the assumption of all physics
is that no information is lost.  But this would be the case as the
information about objects beyond the event horizon cannot get out of a black
hole.

However, this problem has been solved with the holographic principle: the
information about what fell beyond the event horizon is not lost behind
that, but preserved on it.

“Leonard Susskind on The World As Hologram” (2011)
by TVO (Ontario, Canada); <http://tvo.org/>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY>

> and that there could only be dim holes...

Cite evidence that he said that.

> His 2015 paper was titled "No Black Holes"

No, but his whimsical titles have been widely misunderstood by the general
public, also thanks to some science journalists who have no clue and (thus)
have not read beyond the title, or the abstract.

>> To begin with, there is no “black hole theory”.  Black holes are an
>> inevitable consequence of (the) general (theory of) relativity.
> 
> Wrong Tom...

No, Mitch.

> black holes are the extreme end of gravity theory...

General relativity *is* a (geometrical) theory of gravity:

<http://www.einstein-online.info/elementary/generalRT.html>

Please stop talking about things that you know nothing about.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470676

On 9/6/2018 1:49 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 10:46:34 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> We are seeing something else as black hole theory has failed...
>>> Your statements are evidence that you are delusional, so whatever
>>> you see is not reality.
>>
>> Prove that nothing is wrong Tommy Boy...
> 
> I beg your pardon?
> 
>> Why did Hawking say event horizons were a problem?
> 
> Because of the black hole information paradox: the assumption of all physics
> is that no information is lost.  But this would be the case as the
> information about objects beyond the event horizon cannot get out of a black
> hole.
> 
> However, this problem has been solved with the holographic principle: the
> information about what fell beyond the event horizon is not lost behind
> that, but preserved on it.

I personally think that this just might be correct and think the 
holographic principle is interesting. Still have a sneaking suspicion 
that we are inside a black hole.


> 
> “Leonard Susskind on The World As Hologram” (2011)
> by TVO (Ontario, Canada); <http://tvo.org/>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY>
> 
>> and that there could only be dim holes...
> 
> Cite evidence that he said that.
> 
>> His 2015 paper was titled "No Black Holes"
> 
> No, but his whimsical titles have been widely misunderstood by the general
> public, also thanks to some science journalists who have no clue and (thus)
> have not read beyond the title, or the abstract.
> 
>>> To begin with, there is no “black hole theory”.  Black holes are an
>>> inevitable consequence of (the) general (theory of) relativity.
>>
>> Wrong Tom...
> 
> No, Mitch.
> 
>> black holes are the extreme end of gravity theory...
> 
> General relativity *is* a (geometrical) theory of gravity:
> 
> <http://www.einstein-online.info/elementary/generalRT.html>
> 
> Please stop talking about things that you know nothing about.
> 

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#470683

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 1:49:19 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 10:46:34 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> We are seeing something else as black hole theory has failed...
> >> Your statements are evidence that you are delusional, so whatever
> >> you see is not reality.
> > 
> > Prove that nothing is wrong Tommy Boy...
> 
> I beg your pardon?

I challenge you that nothing is wrong Tommy Boy.
Light can always get out.

Mitchell Raemsch


> > Why did Hawking say event horizons were a problem?
> 
> Because of the black hole information paradox: the assumption of all physics
> is that no information is lost.  But this would be the case as the
> information about objects beyond the event horizon cannot get out of a black
> hole.
> 
> However, this problem has been solved with the holographic principle: the
> information about what fell beyond the event horizon is not lost behind
> that, but preserved on it.
> 
> “Leonard Susskind on The World As Hologram” (2011)
> by TVO (Ontario, Canada); <http://tvo.org/>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY>
> 
> > and that there could only be dim holes...
> 
> Cite evidence that he said that.
> 
> > His 2015 paper was titled "No Black Holes"
> 
> No, but his whimsical titles have been widely misunderstood by the general
> public, also thanks to some science journalists who have no clue and (thus)
> have not read beyond the title, or the abstract.
> 
> >> To begin with, there is no “black hole theory”.  Black holes are an
> >> inevitable consequence of (the) general (theory of) relativity.
> > 
> > Wrong Tom...
> 
> No, Mitch.
> 
> > black holes are the extreme end of gravity theory...
> 
> General relativity *is* a (geometrical) theory of gravity:
> 
> <http://www.einstein-online.info/elementary/generalRT.html>
> 
> Please stop talking about things that you know nothing about.
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470708

On 9/6/2018 3:02 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 1:49:19 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 10:46:34 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> We are seeing something else as black hole theory has failed...
>>>> Your statements are evidence that you are delusional, so whatever
>>>> you see is not reality.
>>>
>>> Prove that nothing is wrong Tommy Boy...
>>
>> I beg your pardon?
> 
> I challenge you that nothing is wrong Tommy Boy.
> Light can always get out.
[...]

Light that goes into "orbit" around a BH might be focused into a jet, 
however, imvvvvho, light that goes in will never come out...

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#470755

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> Light that goes into "orbit" around a BH might be focused into a jet, 

Nonsense.

Relativistic jets are something completely different.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470872

On 9/6/2018 7:37 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> Light that goes into "orbit" around a BH might be focused into a jet,
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Relativistic jets are something completely different.
> 

Should I have said matter instead of light, and a quasar or BH on a 
feeding frenzy?

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#470896

On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 1:07:48 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/6/2018 7:37 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >> Light that goes into "orbit" around a BH might be focused into a jet,
> > 
> > Nonsense.
> > 
> > Relativistic jets are something completely different.
> > 
> 
> Should I have said matter instead of light, and a quasar or BH on a 
> feeding frenzy?

Tom lost the argument... 

We are seeing something else.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#470943

mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 1:07:48 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 9/6/2018 7:37 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> Light that goes into "orbit" around a BH might be focused into a jet,
>>>
>>> Nonsense.
>>>
>>> Relativistic jets are something completely different.
>>>
>>
>> Should I have said matter instead of light, and a quasar or BH on a 
>> feeding frenzy?
> 
> Tom lost the argument... 

In your dreams perhaps.

> We are seeing something else.

Your fantasies, delusions, and pipe dreams do not matter.

SEAN MARTIN: “Scientists discover ZOMBIE STARS in shock black hole BREAKTHROUGH”
“WHEN dead stars pass a black hole, the latter can revive the former and
create a ZOMBIE star, researchers have found.”
PUBLISHED: 17:04, Wed, Sep 5, 2018 | UPDATED: 17:10, Wed, Sep 5, 2018
<https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1013481/zombie-star-black-hole-discovery-astronomy-space-news>

Alison Klesman: “X-ray light reveals the geometry of a black hole”.
“By measuring scattered light from Cygnus X-1, astronomers have traced how
matter acts around a black hole.”
Published: Tuesday, July 31, 2018
<http://www.astronomy.com/news/2018/07/cygnus-x-1-polarimetry>

,-<https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/black-holes>
|
| NASA Science Mission Directorate
| Black Holes
|
| […]
| In recent years, NASA instruments have painted a new picture of these
| strange objects that are, to many, the most fascinating objects in space.
| […]
| Scientists can't directly observe black holes with telescopes that detect
| x-rays, light, or other forms of electromagnetic radiation. We can,
| however, infer the presence of black holes and study them by detecting
| their effect on other matter nearby.
| […]
| Recent discoveries offer some tantalizing evidence that black holes have a
| dramatic influence on the neighborhoods around them - emitting powerful
| gamma ray bursts, devouring nearby stars, and spurring the growth of new
| stars in some areas while stalling it in others.
| […]
| Historically, astronomers have long believed that no mid-sized black holes
| exist.  However, recent evidence from Chandra, XMM-Newton and Hubble
| strengthens the case that mid-size black holes do exist.
| […]
| Recent Discoveries
|
| Date: Discovery
| July 12, 2018: Fermi Traces Source of Cosmic Neutrino
|                to Monster Black Hole
|
<https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-fermi-traces-source-of-cosmic-neutrino-to-monster-black-hole>
|
| June 21, 2018: 'Red Nuggets' are Galactic Gold for Astronomers
| <http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2018/mrk1216/>
|
| June 18, 2018: Star Shredded by Rare Breed of Black Hole
| <http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2018/j2150/>
|
| June 15, 2018: Astronomers See Distant Eruption as Black Hole Destroys
|                Star
|
<http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/news/2054-ssc2018-08-Astronomers-See-Distant-Eruption-as-Black-Hole-Destroys-Star>
|
| May 31, 2018:  Gravitational Wave Event Likely Signaled Creation of
|                a Black Hole
| <http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2018/gw170817/>
|
| May 9, 2018:   Black Hole Bounty Captured in the Milky Way Center
|
<https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/images/black-hole-bounty-captured-in-the-milky-way-center.html>
|
| February 15, 2018: Supermassive Black Holes Are Outgrowing Their Galaxies
| <http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2018/cdfs_bh/>
|
| January 5, 2018:   Hubble Views a Supermassive Black Hole Burping -
|                    Twice (SDSS J1354 and SDSS J1354+1327)
| <http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/potw1803a/>
|
| January 1, 2018:   Lasers and Supermassive Black Holes (UGC 6093)
| <http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/potw1801a/>
|
| December 6, 2017:  Most Distant Black Hole
| <https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/found-most-distant-black-hole>
|
| November 30, 2017: Giant Black Hole Pair Photobombs Andromeda Galaxy
| <http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2017/m31/>
|
| October 30, 2017:  Black Hole with Jets - V404 Cygni and GX 339-4
| <https://www.nustar.caltech.edu/news/nustar20171030>
|
| October 3, 2017:   Scientists Find Elusive Giant Black Hole Pairs
| <http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2017/doubleagn/>
|
| August 15, 2017:   Cosmic Magnifying Lens Reveals Inner Jets of
|                    Black Holes
|
<http://www.caltech.edu/news/cosmic-magnifying-lens-reveals-inner-jets-black-holes-79330>

More: <https://www.google.com/search?q=black+hole&filter=0>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470953

On Saturday, 8 September 2018 12:05:09 UTC+2, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn  wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 1:07:48 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >> On 9/6/2018 7:37 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >>>> Light that goes into "orbit" around a BH might be focused into a jet,
> >>>
> >>> Nonsense.
> >>>
> >>> Relativistic jets are something completely different.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Should I have said matter instead of light, and a quasar or BH on a 
> >> feeding frenzy?
> > 
> > Tom lost the argument... 
> 
> In your dreams perhaps.
> 
> > We are seeing something else.
> 
> Your fantasies, delusions, and pipe dreams do not matter.
> 
> SEAN MARTIN: “Scientists discover ZOMBIE STARS in shock black hole BREAKTHROUGH”
> “WHEN dead stars pass a black hole, the latter can revive the former and
> create a ZOMBIE star, researchers have found.”
> PUBLISHED: 17:04, Wed, Sep 5, 2018 | UPDATED: 17:10, Wed, Sep 5, 2018
> <https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1013481/zombie-star-black-hole-discovery-astronomy-space-news>
> 
> Alison Klesman: “X-ray light reveals the geometry of a black hole”.
> “By measuring scattered light from Cygnus X-1, astronomers have traced how
> matter acts around a black hole.”
> Published: Tuesday, July 31, 2018
> <http://www.astronomy.com/news/2018/07/cygnus-x-1-polarimetry>


The fantasies, delusions, and pipe dreams of your moronic gurus
do not matter.

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#470942

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/6/2018 7:37 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> Light that goes into "orbit" around a BH might be focused into a jet,
>>
>> Nonsense.
>>
>> Relativistic jets are something completely different.
> 
> Should I have said matter instead of light, and a quasar or BH on a 
> feeding frenzy?

Partially.  Light does go into orbit (no quotation marks) around a BH,
*too*; the area on which it is in orbit is called the photon sphere.

However, relativistic (plasma) jets are not light, but indeed (in that
sense) "matter" at high (relativistic, i.e. close-to-c) speeds that emits
light.  It has gained those high speeds "by the gravity" of the BH.
(Gravity is just our limited perception of curved spacetime.)

Because, like with other massive objects, whenever something with a
comparably small mass approaches a black hole, there are three possibilities:

  A) It is accelerated and thrown away (cf. “gravity assist”);

  B) It goes into orbit;

  C) It falls toward the surface (in the case of a BH: towards, onto,
     and beyond the event horizon)

<http://jila.colorado.edu/~ajsh/home.html> pp.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470962

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Because, like with other massive objects, whenever something with a
> comparably small mass approaches a black hole, there are three possibilities:
> 
>   A) It is accelerated and thrown away (cf. “gravity assist”);

By “thrown away” I do not mean “put away as garbage”, but “ejected out of
orbit to a place where the "gravity" of the body that accelerated it is no
longer dominant”.

As it happened, for example, with the Voyager spacecrafts when getting a
“gravity assist” by Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus (Voyager 2 only).

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#471058

On 9/8/2018 6:19 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Because, like with other massive objects, whenever something with a
>> comparably small mass approaches a black hole, there are three possibilities:
>>
>>    A) It is accelerated and thrown away (cf. “gravity assist”);
> 
> By “thrown away” I do not mean “put away as garbage”, but “ejected out of
> orbit to a place where the "gravity" of the body that accelerated it is no
> longer dominant”.

Can the jets interact with another galaxy, or cluster of mass many, many 
light years away? The influence cast out by a jet just might be able to 
sort of whip things up, in a sense?

> 
> As it happened, for example, with the Voyager spacecrafts when getting a
> “gravity assist” by Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus (Voyager 2 only).
> 

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#471078

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/8/2018 6:19 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Because, like with other massive objects, whenever something with a
>>> comparably small mass approaches a black hole, there are three possibilities:
>>>
>>>    A) It is accelerated and thrown away (cf. “gravity assist”);
>>
>> By “thrown away” I do not mean “put away as garbage”, but “ejected out of
>> orbit to a place where the "gravity" of the body that accelerated it is no
>> longer dominant”.
> 
> Can the jets interact with another galaxy, or cluster of mass many, many 
> light years away? The influence cast out by a jet just might be able to 
> sort of whip things up, in a sense?

Certainly; both the jets and the light that they emit.  For example,
gamma-ray bursts (GRB) could also be caused by relativistic jets, and a GRB
can wipe out all life on a planet – or cause a mutation that supports evolution.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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