Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #425889 > unrolled thread

Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges?

Started by	Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com>
First post	2017-07-23 01:23 -0700
Last post	2017-07-28 16:00 +0200
Articles	19 — 6 participants

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  Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-23 01:23 -0700
    Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-07-23 14:25 -0700
      Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? Ernard Hevalier <adrdo@tarlaab.lr> - 2017-07-24 08:02 +0000
        Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-07-24 12:17 -0700
          Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-24 22:57 -0700
            Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-07-25 15:35 -0700
              Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-26 06:17 -0700
                Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-07-26 12:17 -0700
                  Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-26 22:47 -0700
                    Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-27 04:11 -0700
                      Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-27 04:29 -0700
                        Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-27 05:07 -0700
                    Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-07-27 15:20 -0700
                      Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-27 23:10 -0700
                        Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-07-28 13:05 -0700
                          Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-28 15:22 -0700
                          Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-29 01:02 -0700
    Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-24 02:08 -0700
      Re: Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-07-28 16:00 +0200

#425889 — Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges?

From	Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com>
Date	2017-07-23 01:23 -0700
Subject	Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges?
Message-ID	<70403ece-6253-4d42-987a-5dda03f03ab0@googlegroups.com>

Lee Smolin: "Einstein's Legacy - Where are the Einsteinians? Special relativity was the result of 10 years of intellectual struggle, yet Einstein had convinced himself it was wrong within two years of publishing it." http://www.logosjournal.com/issue_4.3/smolin.htm

In 1907 Einstein convinced himself special relativity was wrong? What had happened between 1905 and 1907? John Norton explains:

John Norton: "Already in 1907, a mere two years after the completion of the special theory, he [Einstein] had concluded that the speed of light is variable in the presence of a gravitational field." http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/papers/OntologyOUP_TimesNR.pdf

Does "variable in the presence of a gravitational field" entail "variable in gravitation-free space as well"? The brainwashed scientific community is unable to answer this question but nowadays initiated Einsteinians know that the answer is "yes" and cool-headedly leave the sinking ship:

http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Bb713bb56/15112108_dBrrH.png

The pioneer of the campaign was John Baez, once the Tomas de Torquemada of the Einstein cult. He posted on his website information how to trap, gloriously, unlimitedly long objects inside unlimitedly short containers, then found it unbearable to live in Einstein's schizophrenic world, and eventually left the sinking ship:

John Baez: "These are the props. You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors at either end, that can be opened and closed simultaneously by a switch. You also have a pole, 80m long, which of course won't fit in the barn. [...] So, as the pole passes through the barn, there is an instant when it is completely within the barn. At that instant, you close both doors simultaneously, with your switch. [...] If it does not explode under the strain and it is sufficiently elastic it will come to rest and start to spring back to its natural shape but since it is too big for the barn the other end is now going to crash into the back door and the rod will be trapped in a compressed state inside the barn." http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/barn_pole.html

John Baez 2008: "Should I be thinking about quantum gravity? One of the big problems in physics - perhaps the biggest! - is figuring out how our two current best theories fit together. On the one hand we have the Standard Model, which tries to explain all the forces except gravity, and takes quantum mechanics into account. On the other hand we have General Relativity, which tries to explain gravity, and does not take quantum mechanics into account. Both theories seem to be more or less on the right track - but until we somehow fit them together, or completely discard one or both, our picture of the world will be deeply schizophrenic. [...] So, I eventually decided to quit working on quantum gravity." https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11356

All important Einsteinians have already left the sinking ship, even though on sunny mornings you can still hear them singing "Divine Einstein", "Yes we all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity" and "The faster you move, the heavier you get":

http://www.amazon.com/Faster-Than-Speed-Light-Speculation/dp/0738205257
Joao Magueijo, Faster Than the Speed of Light, p. 250: "Lee [Smolin] and I discussed these paradoxes at great length for many months, starting in January 2001. We would meet in cafés in South Kensington or Holland Park to mull over the problem. THE ROOT OF ALL THE EVIL WAS CLEARLY SPECIAL RELATIVITY. All these paradoxes resulted from well known effects such as length contraction, time dilation, or E=mc^2, all basic predictions of special relativity. And all denied the possibility of establishing a well-defined border, common to all observers, capable of containing new quantum gravitational effects."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730370-600-why-do-we-move-forwards-in-time/
"[George] Ellis is up against one of the most successful theories in physics: special relativity. It revealed that there's no such thing as objective simultaneity. [...] Rescuing an objective "now" is a daunting task."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029410.900
New Scientist: "Saving time: Physics killed it. Do we need it back? [...] Einstein landed the fatal blow at the turn of the 20th century."

https://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/research/conferences/convergence/roundtable-discussion-questions/what-are-lessons-quantum
Perimeter Institute: "Quantum mechanics has one thing, time, which is absolute. But general relativity tells us that space and time are both dynamical so there is a big contradiction there. So the question is, can quantum gravity be formulated in a context where quantum mechanics still has absolute time?"

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026831.500-what-makes-the-universe-tick.html
"...says John Norton, a philosopher based at the University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Norton is hesitant to express it, but his instinct - and the consensus in physics - seems to be that space and time exist on their own. The trouble with this idea, though, is that it doesn't sit well with relativity, which describes space-time as a malleable fabric whose geometry can be changed by the gravity of stars, planets and matter."

https://www.edge.org/response-detail/26563
Nobel Laureate David Gross observed, "Everyone in string theory is convinced...that spacetime is doomed. But we don't know what it's replaced by."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U47kyV4TMnE
Nima Arkani-Hamed (06:09): "Almost all of us believe that space-time doesn't really exist, space-time is doomed and has to be replaced by some more primitive building blocks."

https://edge.org/response-detail/25477
What scientific idea is ready for retirement? Steve Giddings: "Spacetime. Physics has always been regarded as playing out on an underlying stage of space and time. Special relativity joined these into spacetime... [...] The apparent need to retire classical spacetime as a fundamental concept is profound..."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727721.200-rethinking-einstein-the-end-of-spacetime.html
"Rethinking Einstein: The end of space-time [...] The stumbling block lies with their conflicting views of space and time. As seen by quantum theory, space and time are a static backdrop against which particles move. In Einstein's theories, by contrast, not only are space and time inextricably linked, but the resulting space-time is moulded by the bodies within it. [...] Something has to give in this tussle between general relativity and quantum mechanics, and the smart money says that it's relativity that will be the loser."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jun/10/time-reborn-farewell-reality-review
"And by making the clock's tick relative - what happens simultaneously for one observer might seem sequential to another - Einstein's theory of special relativity not only destroyed any notion of absolute time but made time equivalent to a dimension in space: the future is already out there waiting for us; we just can't see it until we get there. This view is a logical and metaphysical dead end, says Smolin."

http://www.knetbooks.com/search-results?terms=9780544245594&referrer=KBCJ
"Was Einstein wrong? At least in his understanding of time, Smolin argues, the great theorist of relativity was dead wrong. What is worse, by firmly enshrining his error in scientific orthodoxy, Einstein trapped his successors in insoluble dilemmas..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lE-I2I4i00
"Divine Einstein. No-one's as dee-vine as Albert Einstein not Maxwell, Curie, or Bohr! His fame went glo-bell, he won the Nobel - He should have been given four! No-one's as dee-vine as Albert Einstein, Professor with brains galore! No-one could outshine Professor Einstein! He gave us special relativity, That's always made him a hero to me! No-one's as dee-vine as Albert Einstein, Professor in overdrive!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PkLLXhONvQ
Max Tegmark: "We all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. Yes we all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. Everything is relative, even simultaneity, and soon Einstein's become a de facto physics deity. 'cos we all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. We all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. Yes we all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuxFXHircaI
Michio Kaku, Brian Cox, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian Greene, Lisa Randall: "Now, listen carefully. The faster you move, the heavier you get. Light travels at the same speed no matter how you look at it. No matter how I move relative to you light travels at the same speed. No matter who is doing the measurement and no matter what direction you are moving the speed of light is the same. The speed of light is the same no matter what direction or how fast... As you travel faster time slows down. Everything slows down. Everything slows down. Time slows down when you move. Time passes at a different rate. Clocks run slow. It's a monumental shift in how we see the world. It's a beautiful piece of science. It's a beautifully elegant theory. It's a beautiful piece of science. It's a beautiful piece..."

Pentcho Valev

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#425923

From	JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date	2017-07-23 14:25 -0700
Message-ID	<e347b284-b289-4b82-817d-7d563df43bee@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#425889

On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 1:23:08 AM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Lee Smolin: "Einstein's Legacy - Where are the Einsteinians?

Nowhere. "Einsteinians" is a phantom you created in order to enjoy fighting it in full
public view. It gives you an ego boost.

--
Jan

From	Ernard Hevalier <adrdo@tarlaab.lr>
Date	2017-07-24 08:02 +0000
Message-ID	<ol49i5$h37$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#425923

From	mlwozniak@wp.pl
Date	2017-07-24 22:57 -0700
Message-ID	<19ea30f4-cad1-4e70-b931-40d4725c25ef@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#425991

From	Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date	2017-07-27 04:11 -0700
Message-ID	<98080874-06f8-4fd3-a63e-85e556365cfc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#426242

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date	2017-07-28 16:00 +0200
Message-ID	<eu0ucdF5n39U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#425964

Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges?

Contents

#425889 — Where are the Einsteinians, the thaumaturges?

#425923

#425957

#425991

#426036

#426128

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#426201

#426242

#426270

#426274

#426278

#426375

#426407

#426464

#426487

#426511

#425964

#426441