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Relativistic train on relativistic wheels

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  Relativistic train on relativistic wheels mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-21 02:15 -0700
    Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-21 22:37 +1100
      Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-21 06:43 -0700
        Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-21 16:36 +0200
          Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels Jim Barthel <jimbart@portlanportal.info> - 2016-10-21 15:00 +0000
            Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-21 17:58 +0200
            Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 10:31 -0700
          Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-24 11:24 +1100
            Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-26 22:27 +0200
    Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 09:48 -0700
      Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com - 2016-10-24 11:06 -0700
        Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-24 23:31 -0700
    Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-25 10:44 -0700
      Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 11:06 -0700
        Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-25 11:35 -0700
          Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 12:13 -0700
            Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-26 07:23 -0700
        Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-25 12:23 -0700
          Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 15:22 -0700
            Re: Relativistic train on relativistic wheels alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-26 07:12 -0700

#396278 — Relativistic train on relativistic wheels

The wheels of a train have l diameter.
The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
1)Is it possible?
2)What is the period of its wheel cycle (measured by ground observer)?

Wonder what our self-appointed gurus will say about
it...

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#396287

On 21/10/2016 8:15 PM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
> The wheels of a train have l diameter.

I suspect they have infinitely many.

Sylvia.

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#396301

W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 13:37:46 UTC+2 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
> On 21/10/2016 8:15 PM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
> > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> 
> I suspect they have infinitely many.

?????
The wheels have infinitely many ... what?

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#396318

Op 21-okt-2016 om 15:43 schreef mlwozniak@wp.pl:
> W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 13:37:46 UTC+2 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
>> On 21/10/2016 8:15 PM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
>>> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
>>
>> I suspect they have infinitely many.
>
> ?????
> The wheels have infinitely many ... what?

Infinitely many diameters.
And all disintegrating at a speed of about 0.000001 c.

Dirk Vdm

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#396323

Dirk Van de moortel wrote:

>>>> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
>>>
>>> I suspect they have infinitely many.
>>
>> ????? The wheels have infinitely many ... what?
> 
> Infinitely many diameters. And all disintegrating at a speed of about
> 0.000001 c. Dirk Vdm

http://russia-insider.com/en/us-blames-northern-lights-russia-imposes-sanctions/ri17149

"One reporter asked about the rumors that world-renowned 
astrophysicist, Dr. Neal deGraas Tyson, had been summoned to the 
White House to seek his expert advice on exactly what appropriate 
counter-measures and retaliation might be available.

“Well . . . Mr. Tyson appears to be a Putin-apologist and commie 
sympathizer.  When we approached him about this, after he stopped 
rudely laughing in our faces, the guy just shrugged his shoulders 
and walked away shaking his head.  What an arrogant man.  We are 
keeping our eye on him.”"

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#396326

Op 21-okt-2016 om 17:00 schreef Jim Barthel:
> Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
>
>>>>> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect they have infinitely many.
>>>
>>> ????? The wheels have infinitely many ... what?
>>
>> Infinitely many diameters. And all disintegrating at a speed of about
>> 0.000001 c. Dirk Vdm
>
> http://russia-insider.com/en/us-blames-northern-lights-russia-imposes-sanctions/ri17149
>
> "One reporter asked about the rumors that world-renowned
> astrophysicist, Dr. Neal deGraas Tyson, had been summoned to the
> White House to seek his expert advice on exactly what appropriate
> counter-measures and retaliation might be available.
>
> “Well . . . Mr. Tyson appears to be a Putin-apologist and commie
> sympathizer.  When we approached him about this, after he stopped
> rudely laughing in our faces, the guy just shrugged his shoulders
> and walked away shaking his head.  What an arrogant man.  We are
> keeping our eye on him.”"

And... DO NOT STARE AT THE LIGHTS!

Dirk Vdm

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#396336

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:00:40 AM UTC-7, Jim Barthel wrote:
> Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
> 
> >>>> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect they have infinitely many.
> >>
> >> ????? The wheels have infinitely many ... what?
> > 
> > Infinitely many diameters. And all disintegrating at a speed of about
> > 0.000001 c. Dirk Vdm
> 
> http://russia-insider.com/en/us-blames-northern-lights-russia-imposes-sanctions/ri17149

Looks like The Onion.

--
Jan

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#396573

On 22/10/2016 1:36 AM, Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
> Op 21-okt-2016 om 15:43 schreef mlwozniak@wp.pl:
>> W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 13:37:46 UTC+2 użytkownik Sylvia
>> Else napisał:
>>> On 21/10/2016 8:15 PM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
>>>> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
>>>
>>> I suspect they have infinitely many.
>>
>> ?????
>> The wheels have infinitely many ... what?
>
> Infinitely many diameters.
> And all disintegrating at a speed of about 0.000001 c.
>
> Dirk Vdm
>

I wonder if mlwozniak has figured out yet how his thread went so awry.

Sylvia.

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#396874

Op 24-okt-2016 om 02:24 schreef Sylvia Else:
> On 22/10/2016 1:36 AM, Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
>> Op 21-okt-2016 om 15:43 schreef mlwozniak@wp.pl:
>>> W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 13:37:46 UTC+2 użytkownik Sylvia
>>> Else napisał:
>>>> On 21/10/2016 8:15 PM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
>>>>> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect they have infinitely many.
>>>
>>> ?????
>>> The wheels have infinitely many ... what?
>>
>> Infinitely many diameters.
>> And all disintegrating at a speed of about 0.000001 c.
>>
>> Dirk Vdm
>>
>
> I wonder if mlwozniak has figured out yet how his thread went so awry.
>
> Sylvia.

Apparently not :-|
Language barrier.
Intelligence barrier.

Dirk Vdm

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#396329

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 11:15:52 PM UTC-10, mlwo...@wp.pl wrote:
> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> 1)Is it possible?
> 2)What is the period of its wheel cycle (measured by ground observer)?
> 
> Wonder what our self-appointed gurus will say about
> it...

Not possible. The amount of coal that the train would need to carry would be astronomical. The wheels would fly apart after it reached a speed of 123,000 miles per hour. Steel only has a tensile strength of 0.99 gigapascals per square furlong.

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#396660

yeah, 18,60,00/1,00,00,00 = 0.99,99,99,99Gp/fl 

> > l diameter.
> > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > 1)Is it possible?
> > 2)What is the period of its wheel cycle (measured by ground observer)?

> astronomical. The wheels would fly apart after it reached a speed of 123,000 miles per hour. Steel only has a tensile strength of 0.99 gigapascals per square furlong.

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#396716

W dniu poniedziałek, 24 października 2016 20:06:38 UTC+2 użytkownik abu.ku...@gmail.com napisał:
> yeah, 18,60,00/1,00,00,00 = 0.99,99,99,99Gp/fl 
> 
> > > l diameter.
> > > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > > 1)Is it possible?
> > > 2)What is the period of its wheel cycle (measured by ground observer)?
> 
> > astronomical. 

Right. According to your Shit - faster the train
is moving slower the wheels rotate.

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#396757

W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> 1)Is it possible?

a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:

--> wr
O---> v
<-- -wr

-------> 2v 
----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
>0

thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c

> 2)What is the period of its wheel cycle (measured by ground observer)?

v = 2piR/T => T = 2pi R / v, always.

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#396759

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > 1)Is it possible?
> 
> a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:
> 
> --> wr
> O---> v
> <-- -wr
> 
> -------> 2v 
> ----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
> >0
> 
> thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c

Incorrect. The original question was framed within relativity. You are
using Newtonian mechanics.

--
Jan

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#396761

W dniu wtorek, 25 października 2016 20:06:16 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> > > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> > > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > > 1)Is it possible?
> > 
> > a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:
> > 
> > --> wr
> > O---> v
> > <-- -wr
> > 
> > -------> 2v 
> > ----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
> > >0
> > 
> > thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c
> 
> Incorrect. The original question was framed within relativity. You are
> using Newtonian mechanics.

Under the SR model everything is the same,
due to the simple math convention:

t' = c'/c t; an artificial time-parameter.

Thus the correct: c' = c-v, is simply replaced by c' = c,
and the pseudotime:
t' = ble ble.
The rest remains the same, because: r' = c't = ct' = r';
geometry doesn't care about human's stupidity at all.

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#396765

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 11:35:50 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> W dniu wtorek, 25 października 2016 20:06:16 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> > On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > > W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> > > > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> > > > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > > > 1)Is it possible?
> > > 
> > > a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:
> > > 
> > > --> wr
> > > O---> v
> > > <-- -wr
> > > 
> > > -------> 2v 
> > > ----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
> > > >0
> > > 
> > > thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c
> > 
> > Incorrect. The original question was framed within relativity. You are
> > using Newtonian mechanics.
> 
> Under the SR model everything is the same,
> due to the simple math convention:
> 
> t' = c'/c t; an artificial time-parameter.
> 
> Thus the correct: c' = c-v, is simply replaced by c' = c,
> and the pseudotime:
> t' = ble ble.
> The rest remains the same, because: r' = c't = ct' = r';
> geometry doesn't care about human's stupidity at all.

No, wrong. 2v =/= 2v/(1 + v^2).

--
Jan

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#396834

W dniu wtorek, 25 października 2016 21:13:58 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 11:35:50 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > W dniu wtorek, 25 października 2016 20:06:16 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> > > On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > > > W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> > > > > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> > > > > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > > > > 1)Is it possible?
> > > > 
> > > > a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:
> > > > 
> > > > --> wr
> > > > O---> v
> > > > <-- -wr
> > > > 
> > > > -------> 2v 
> > > > ----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
> > > > >0
> > > > 
> > > > thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c
> > > 
> > > Incorrect. The original question was framed within relativity. You are
> > > using Newtonian mechanics.
> > 
> > Under the SR model everything is the same,
> > due to the simple math convention:
> > 
> > t' = c'/c t; an artificial time-parameter.
> > 
> > Thus the correct: c' = c-v, is simply replaced by c' = c,
> > and the pseudotime:
> > t' = ble ble.
> > The rest remains the same, because: r' = c't = ct' = r';
> > geometry doesn't care about human's stupidity at all.
> 
> No, wrong. 2v =/= 2v/(1 + v^2).
> 
> --
> Jan

The SR formula for addition is just a rescaling speed wrt the maximal speed, 
thus to light speed.

Look at this:

v' = dx'/dt' = ble ble

the actual speed is in fact: dx'/dt,
so if you want to rescale this number by the light speed,
then you must use c' in a role of an unit of speed:

dx' / dt * c/c', what is just: dx'/dt',
bacause: r' = cdt' = c'dt => dt' = c'/c dt

This is the same like using the naked number: v/c = <-1,1>
in place of the speed v = <-c,c>.

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#396771

W dniu wtorek, 25 października 2016 20:06:16 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> > > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> > > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > > 1)Is it possible?
> > 
> > a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:
> > 
> > --> wr
> > O---> v
> > <-- -wr
> > 
> > -------> 2v 
> > ----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
> > >0
> > 
> > thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c
> 
> Incorrect. The original question was framed within relativity. You are
> using Newtonian mechanics.
> 
> --
> Jan

Using the real Lorentz contraction,
for v = c:

|---> c
|
|---> c
|
|---> c
============== some road

the all point of the circle moves at c.

The top speed is not 2c because there is the extremal contraction...
dL/dt = -c.
2c + -c = c

similarily the point on bottom:
0 + c = c.

because at this point the expansion is extremal: dL/dt = +c,
etc.

Look at a middle point:
the speed is usualy: sqrt(v^2 + (wr)^2) = sqrt2 v;

but in this stupid example it is equal to c too,
because now the contraction is infinite,
thus the central part of the wheel is infinitely dense:
the mass just flows from this point with zero speed, but with infinite density:
m * v = const.

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#396796

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 12:23:12 PM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> W dniu wtorek, 25 października 2016 20:06:16 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> > On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > > W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> > > > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> > > > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > > > 1)Is it possible?
> > > 
> > > a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:
> > > 
> > > --> wr
> > > O---> v
> > > <-- -wr
> > > 
> > > -------> 2v 
> > > ----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
> > > >0
> > > 
> > > thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c
> > 
> > Incorrect. The original question was framed within relativity. You are
> > using Newtonian mechanics.
> > 
> > --
> > Jan
> 
> Using the real Lorentz contraction,
> for v = c:
> 
> |---> c
> |
> |---> c
> |
> |---> c
> ============== some road
> 
> the all point of the circle moves at c.
> 
> The top speed is not 2c because there is the extremal contraction...
> dL/dt = -c.
> 2c + -c = c
> 
> similarily the point on bottom:
> 0 + c = c.
> 
> because at this point the expansion is extremal: dL/dt = +c,
> etc.
> 
> Look at a middle point:
> the speed is usualy: sqrt(v^2 + (wr)^2) = sqrt2 v;
> 
> but in this stupid example it is equal to c too,
> because now the contraction is infinite,
> thus the central part of the wheel is infinitely dense:
> the mass just flows from this point with zero speed, but with infinite density:
> m * v = const.

Before answering your mistakes, let me ask you this elephant in the room
type question:

Do you really think, even for a split second, that you CAN be correct here?
You know what this would imply, don't you.

(Just testing if you're simply too far gone or it's merely a language
problem.)

--
Jan

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#396832

W dniu środa, 26 października 2016 00:23:02 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 12:23:12 PM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > W dniu wtorek, 25 października 2016 20:06:16 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> > > On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-7, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > > > W dniu piątek, 21 października 2016 11:15:52 UTC+2 użytkownik mlwo...@wp.pl napisał:
> > > > > The wheels of a train have l diameter.
> > > > > The train accelerates to 0.99c relative to ground observer.
> > > > > 1)Is it possible?
> > > > 
> > > > a speed of the top of a rotating wheel is:
> > > > 
> > > > --> wr
> > > > O---> v
> > > > <-- -wr
> > > > 
> > > > -------> 2v 
> > > > ----> v - a speed of the center of the wheel
> > > > >0
> > > > 
> > > > thus a limit for a speed of the wheel is 0.5c
> > > 
> > > Incorrect. The original question was framed within relativity. You are
> > > using Newtonian mechanics.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Jan
> > 
> > Using the real Lorentz contraction,
> > for v = c:
> > 
> > |---> c
> > |
> > |---> c
> > |
> > |---> c
> > ============== some road
> > 
> > the all point of the circle moves at c.
> > 
> > The top speed is not 2c because there is the extremal contraction...
> > dL/dt = -c.
> > 2c + -c = c
> > 
> > similarily the point on bottom:
> > 0 + c = c.
> > 
> > because at this point the expansion is extremal: dL/dt = +c,
> > etc.
> > 
> > Look at a middle point:
> > the speed is usualy: sqrt(v^2 + (wr)^2) = sqrt2 v;
> > 
> > but in this stupid example it is equal to c too,
> > because now the contraction is infinite,
> > thus the central part of the wheel is infinitely dense:
> > the mass just flows from this point with zero speed, but with infinite density:
> > m * v = const.
> 
> Before answering your mistakes, let me ask you this elephant in the room
> type question:
> 
> Do you really think, even for a split second, that you CAN be correct here?
> You know what this would imply, don't you.
> 
> (Just testing if you're simply too far gone or it's merely a language
> problem.)
> 
> --
> Jan

The problem is infinitely too hard for you,
and for any other childern in the sci.

More! This problem is over the actual science in general...
This's a type of PDE-problem in fact, not any stupid cinematics.

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