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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #393694 > unrolled thread

Clarification of Simultaneity.

Started byHGW <hw@....>
First post2016-09-25 17:24 +1000
Last post2016-10-13 19:32 +1100
Articles 20 on this page of 297 — 27 participants

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Contents

  Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-25 17:24 +1000
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 10:36 +0200
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-09-25 12:00 +0200
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-25 20:02 +1000
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 12:25 +0200
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-09-25 14:41 +0200
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-26 06:52 +1000
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2016-09-25 08:46 -0600
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-09-25 20:21 +0200
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-26 06:55 +1000
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-26 00:18 -0500
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-25 23:16 -0700
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-26 20:01 +1000
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-01 21:13 +0200
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-26 06:53 +1000
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-26 03:18 +0000
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-26 20:03 +1000
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-27 01:20 +0000
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-27 13:22 +1000
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-27 20:11 +1000
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-27 20:18 +1000
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 14:25 +1000
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-28 14:49 +1000
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 08:49 +1000
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-27 03:33 -0700
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-25 05:36 -0700
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-26 06:58 +1000
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 17:12 -0500
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-25 16:27 -0700
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-09-25 20:44 -0600
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 08:17 -0500
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-26 06:35 -0700
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-26 07:13 -0700
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 09:42 -0500
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-27 06:47 -0700
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 09:08 -0500
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-27 08:04 -0700
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 11:10 -0500
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-27 12:54 -0700
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 14:59 -0500
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-28 06:11 -0700
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 09:29 -0500
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-28 09:15 -0700
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 14:37 -0500
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 14:54 -0500
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-28 13:30 -0700
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:36 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 10:58 -0700
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-26 21:05 +0200
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-27 09:22 +1000
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-27 13:39 +0200
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 09:17 +1000
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-29 10:37 +0200
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 19:56 +1000
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 10:20 -0500
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-30 10:30 +1000
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-27 06:27 -0700
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Python <python@org.invalid> - 2016-09-27 15:45 +0200
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 09:05 -0500
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-27 07:54 -0700
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 10:05 -0500
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-27 12:51 -0700
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 14:58 -0500
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-28 06:00 -0700
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 09:27 -0500
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-28 23:33 -0700
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-28 15:14 +0200
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-28 09:05 -0700
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 14:37 -0500
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-28 14:09 -0700
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:48 -0500
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 14:24 +1000
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 10:08 -0500
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-29 05:48 -0700
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 10:26 -0500
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-30 07:08 -0700
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 09:29 -0500
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-01 07:57 -0700
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:52 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-03 06:04 -0700
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 10:04 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-03 06:36 -0700
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 10:07 -0500
                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-04 07:19 +1100
                                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 15:25 -0500
                                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-05 09:24 +1100
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-30 06:23 -0700
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 09:17 -0500
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-01 07:10 -0700
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:34 -0500
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-02 18:41 +1100
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 09:41 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-04 06:47 +1100
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 15:14 -0500
                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-05 09:25 +1100
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-02 07:33 -0700
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-03 09:01 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-03 07:22 -0700
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 09:51 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-04 06:52 +1100
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 15:15 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-05 01:18 -0700
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 08:24 -0500
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-03 06:46 -0700
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 12:25 -0500
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-04 04:36 -0700
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 09:55 -0500
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-04 15:02 +0000
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-29 03:05 +0000
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 14:26 +1000
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-29 15:42 +0000
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-30 10:37 +1000
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-30 03:38 +0000
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 07:15 -0500
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-07 23:22 +0200
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-08 21:01 +1100
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-08 19:25 +0200
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-09 20:22 +1100
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-09 14:33 +0200
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-13 05:35 +0200
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-13 18:42 +1100
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-14 21:08 +0200
                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-15 06:35 +1100
                                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-15 06:10 +0200
                                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-16 05:06 +1100
                                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-15 22:02 +0200
                                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-16 01:38 +0000
                                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-16 09:43 +0200
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-29 10:44 +0200
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-15 12:13 -0700
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-16 06:22 +1100
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 06:12 +0200
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-26 20:05 +1000
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 06:24 +0200
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-27 20:18 +1000
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 21:30 +0200
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 11:24 +1000
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-29 22:12 +0200
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-30 10:28 +1000
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-30 06:59 +0200
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-01 05:24 +1000
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-01 06:31 +0200
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-01 20:09 +1000
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-01 13:27 +0200
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-01 17:44 +0200
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-02 08:54 +1100
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 03:33 +0200
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-02 18:27 +1100
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 22:11 +0200
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-03 09:11 +1100
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-03 07:04 +0200
                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-05 09:22 +1100
                                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-05 05:22 +0200
                                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-06 07:41 +1100
                                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-06 06:54 +0200
                                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-07 10:10 +1100
                                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-07 06:18 +0200
                                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-06 23:46 -0700
                                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-07 22:59 +0200
                                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-08 21:07 +1100
                                                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-08 19:33 +0200
                                                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-09 05:26 +0200
                                                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-10 06:39 +0200
                                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-08 09:25 +1100
                                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-08 19:26 +0200
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-04 14:48 +1100
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 13:27 -0700
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-05 20:41 +0200
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-05 23:48 -0700
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-16 09:40 +0200
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-10-16 11:33 +0200
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-16 18:25 +0200
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-17 00:02 -0700
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-17 21:18 +0200
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-17 23:36 -0700
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-26 09:11 +0200
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-26 01:56 -0700
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-26 22:39 +0200
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-10-29 12:18 +0200
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-09-25 11:38 +0200
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-25 05:54 -0700
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-09-25 16:39 +0200
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-25 21:53 +0200
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-26 07:02 +1000
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-26 10:17 +0200
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-26 01:46 -0700
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-26 20:14 +1000
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-26 20:59 +0200
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-27 09:24 +1000
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 08:45 +0200
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-03 08:57 -0500
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-03 18:18 +0200
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-04 06:56 +1100
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-04 05:14 +0200
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-04 16:31 +1100
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-04 15:19 -0500
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-05 05:40 +0200
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-06 10:05 +1100
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-12 04:55 +0200
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-13 09:02 +1100
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-13 04:27 +0200
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-13 19:32 +1100
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-17 21:07 +0200
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-18 07:40 +1100
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-18 06:32 +0200
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-19 07:23 +1100
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-18 17:21 -0700
                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Jim Barthel <jimbart@portlanportal.info> - 2016-10-19 19:30 +0000
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-19 04:59 +0200
                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-20 04:05 +1100
                                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-19 21:06 +0200
                                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-21 04:12 +1100
                                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-20 10:59 -0700
                                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Jim Barthel <jimbart@portlanportal.info> - 2016-10-20 18:15 +0000
                                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-21 05:37 +0200
                                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-21 20:35 +1100
                                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-21 22:12 +0200
                                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Jim Barthel <jimbart@portlanportal.info> - 2016-10-21 20:20 +0000
                                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-21 22:56 +0200
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 14:07 -0700
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-04 04:52 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 17:04 -0500
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 13:13 -0700
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-27 09:27 +1000
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 06:12 -0500
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 13:42 -0700
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:43 -0500
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 13:08 -0700
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 14:21 -0700
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 16:29 -0500
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-30 05:57 -0700
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 09:15 -0500
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-01 06:30 -0700
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:07 -0500
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-03 05:57 -0700
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 10:03 -0500
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Python <python@org.invalid> - 2016-09-30 16:17 +0200
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-01 06:44 -0700
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Python <python@python.invalid> - 2016-10-01 18:24 +0200
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-02 06:25 -0700
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 08:24 -0500
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-03 06:50 -0700
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 12:27 -0500
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-04 04:37 -0700
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 09:55 -0500
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-05 01:21 -0700
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-30 14:32 +0000
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-09-30 18:28 +0200
                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 11:03 -0700
                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:00 -0500
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 02:53 -0700
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-02 05:43 -0700
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 13:21 -0700
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-04 18:01 -0700
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-05 13:39 -0700
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-06 08:05 -0700
                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 10:59 -0700
                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-06 19:09 -0700
                                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 14:13 -0700
                                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-07 20:25 -0700
                                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 09:35 -0700
                                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-09 10:36 -0700
                                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 13:42 -0700
                                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-10 15:35 -0700
                                                Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-10-12 14:01 -0700
                                                  Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-16 10:16 -0700
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-02 06:55 -0700
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-02 13:26 -0700
                        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-03 05:40 -0700
                          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-03 10:27 -0700
                            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-04 04:39 -0700
                              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-04 05:53 -0700
                      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 09:49 -0500
                    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-11 07:47 +0200
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-30 03:49 +0000
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-27 20:22 -0500
        Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 13:00 -0700
          Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-09-30 11:58 +0200
            Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-30 13:47 +0000
              Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-09-30 19:24 +0200
    Clarification of Simultaneity. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-29 19:27 -0700
      Clarification of Simultaneity. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-29 19:32 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-02 16:22 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-02 16:23 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 16:28 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-04 14:34 +1100
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 14:43 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 15:02 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 16:22 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 16:23 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 16:46 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-05 14:16 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-07 15:07 -0700
    Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-07 15:09 -0700
    Clarification of Simultaneity. John Gogo <jfgogo22@gmail.com> - 2016-10-12 19:36 -0700
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-13 14:54 +1100
      Re: Clarification of Simultaneity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-13 19:32 +1100

Page 10 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12 … 15  Next page →


#393727

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-09-25 05:54 -0700
Message-ID<02b0a20b-5489-465b-9847-3fc6fbf72013@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#393708
On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 5:38:20 AM UTC-4, Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
> Op 25-sep-2016 om 09:24 schreef HGW:
> > Two events that are absolutely simultaneous will not, in general, appear
> > to be simultaneous. That is a consequence of the finite speed of light
> > and is not an indication that simultaneity is relative.
> >
> > Einstein and his followers were always too stupid to realize this.
> 
> After 20 years here, just like Seto, you *still*
> think that we are all stupid enough to think that
> our *seeing* two events simultaneously (--see your
> usage of "appear"--) always implies that the events
> happened simultaneously.
> Hopeless. Specially after 20 years.

No we don't use the word "seeing" or "apparent" to judge the absolute simultaneity of two events A and B. The absolute simultaneity of A and B can only be measured by an observer who is at rest and at equal distance from A and B. No other observer who is moving wrt A and B is qualified to measure the absolute simultaneity of A and B. The observer who does the measurement can use the LT to inform other observers that the time of absolute simultaneity at equal distance from A and B is T_ab. In SR and IRT the value of T_ab is: 
T_ab=T_o/gamma.
T_o=L/c
L=the distance of A and B from the mid point.

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#393732

FromDirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not>
Date2016-09-25 16:39 +0200
Message-ID<ns8njo$thq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393727
Op 25-sep-2016 om 14:54 schreef kenseto:
> On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 5:38:20 AM UTC-4, Dirk Van de
> moortel wrote:
>> Op 25-sep-2016 om 09:24 schreef HGW:
>>> Two events that are absolutely simultaneous will not, in general,
>>> appear to be simultaneous. That is a consequence of the finite
>>> speed of light and is not an indication that simultaneity is
>>> relative.
>>>
>>> Einstein and his followers were always too stupid to realize
>>> this.
>>
>> After 20 years here, just like Seto, you *still* think that we are
>> all stupid enough to think that our *seeing* two events
>> simultaneously (--see your usage of "appear"--) always implies that
>> the events happened simultaneously. Hopeless. Specially after 20
>> years.
>
> No we don't use the word "seeing" or "apparent" to judge the absolute
> simultaneity of two events A and B.

After 20 years her, just like Wilson, you *still* have not learned
to read what people write. I did *not* say that you use the word
"seeing" or "apparent" to judge the absolute simultaneity of two
events A and B.

Dirk Vdm

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#393753

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-09-25 21:53 +0200
Message-ID<ns9a09$sbu$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#393694
On 25.09.2016 09:24, HGW wrote:
> Two events that are absolutely simultaneous will not, in general, appear
> to be simultaneous. That is a consequence of the finite speed of light
> and is not an indication that simultaneity is relative.

Ah! Of course! Why didn't I realize this before?

> Einstein and his followers were always too stupid to realize this.

Quite. You are obviously correct.
It never occurred to Einstein or any other physicist in
The Great Conspiracy that the speed of light is finite!

Thanks for enlightening us, Ralph.
This should falsify 'relativity of simultaneity' once for all!

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#393764

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-09-26 07:02 +1000
Message-ID<ns9e0l$3up$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393753
On 26/09/16 05:53, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> On 25.09.2016 09:24, HGW wrote:
>> Two events that are absolutely simultaneous will not, in general, appear
>> to be simultaneous. That is a consequence of the finite speed of light
>> and is not an indication that simultaneity is relative.
>
> Ah! Of course! Why didn't I realize this before?
>
>> Einstein and his followers were always too stupid to realize this.
>
> Quite. You are obviously correct.
> It never occurred to Einstein or any other physicist in
> The Great Conspiracy that the speed of light is finite!
>
> Thanks for enlightening us, Ralph.
> This should falsify 'relativity of simultaneity' once for all!

That's true. It does...

If communication was instant, a pair of events would be either 
absolutely simultaneous all frames or separated by the same absolute 
time intervals.
That should be obvious, even to you.

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#393826

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-09-26 10:17 +0200
Message-ID<nsalis$8ui$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#393764
On 25.09.2016 23:02, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> On 26/09/16 05:53, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> On 25.09.2016 09:24, HGW wrote:
>>> Two events that are absolutely simultaneous will not, in general, appear
>>> to be simultaneous. That is a consequence of the finite speed of light
>>> and is not an indication that simultaneity is relative.
>>
>> Ah! Of course! Why didn't I realize this before?
>>
>>> Einstein and his followers were always too stupid to realize this.
>>
>> Quite. You are obviously correct.
>> It never occurred to Einstein or any other physicist in
>> The Great Conspiracy that the speed of light is finite!
>>
>> Thanks for enlightening us, Ralph.
>> This should falsify 'relativity of simultaneity' once for all!
>
> That's true. It does...
>
> If communication was instant, a pair of events would be either
> absolutely simultaneous all frames or separated by the same absolute
> time intervals.
> That should be obvious, even to you.

Indeed it is.
But since communication isn't instant then simultaneity isn't
necessarily absolute, so we will have to perform experiments
in the real world to see if it is.

"Relativity of simultaneity" is an inevitable consequence
of the invariance of the speed of light.
And we know what experimental evidence have to say about
that, don't we?

https://paulba.no/paper/Babcock_Bergman.pdf
https://paulba.no/paper/Alvager_et_al.pdf
https://paulba.no/paper/Beckmann_Mandics.pdf
https://paulba.no/paper/Filippas_Fox.pdf
https://paulba.no/paper/Brecher.pdf

Now you can kick and scream - it won't help.


   It is interesting to note that to Kennedy and Thorndike
   it was so obvious that "relativity of time" was
   a consequence of the invariance of the speed of light
   that they called their 1932 'KTX' paper
   "Experimental Establishment of the Relativity of Time".

    https://paulba.no/paper/Kennedy_Thorndike.pdf

    What they really measured was that the speed of light
    was the same in all inertial frames. (They repeated
    the measurement at different times of the year.)

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#393829

Frommlwozniak@wp.pl
Date2016-09-26 01:46 -0700
Message-ID<0c6bccae-ab1a-4bbe-8bcc-548adae3135b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#393826
W dniu poniedziałek, 26 września 2016 10:17:33 UTC+2 użytkownik Paul B. Andersen napisał:

 
> "Relativity of simultaneity" is an inevitable consequence
> of the invariance of the speed of light.
> And we know what experimental evidence have to say about
> that, don't we?

Well, which, exactly, experiment told  you
that proper clocks are unsynchronized clocks?


> 
> https://paulba.no/paper/Babcock_Bergman.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Alvager_et_al.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Beckmann_Mandics.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Filippas_Fox.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Brecher.pdf

Which one of them?

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#393840

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-09-26 20:14 +1000
Message-ID<nsase6$pl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393826
On 26/09/16 18:17, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> On 25.09.2016 23:02, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:

>>
>> That's true. It does...
>>
>> If communication was instant, a pair of events would be either
>> absolutely simultaneous all frames or separated by the same absolute
>> time intervals.
>> That should be obvious, even to you.
>
> Indeed it is.
> But since communication isn't instant then simultaneity isn't
> necessarily absolute, so we will have to perform experiments
> in the real world to see if it is.
>
> "Relativity of simultaneity" is an inevitable consequence
> of the invariance of the speed of light.

It would be if light speed was invariant...but it isn't is t Paul.

> And we know what experimental evidence have to say about
> that, don't we?
>
> https://paulba.no/paper/Babcock_Bergman.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Alvager_et_al.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Beckmann_Mandics.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Filippas_Fox.pdf
> https://paulba.no/paper/Brecher.pdf

Very amusing, Paul...

> Now you can kick and scream - it won't help.

I don't haveto Paul. You and your colleagues just keep on uttering the 
same old nonsense and nobody takes any notice any more.

Einstein was fun while it lasted...but it's all gone now..



>    It is interesting to note that to Kennedy and Thorndike
>    it was so obvious that "relativity of time" was
>    a consequence of the invariance of the speed of light
>    that they called their 1932 'KTX' paper
>    "Experimental Establishment of the Relativity of Time".
>
>     https://paulba.no/paper/Kennedy_Thorndike.pdf
>
>     What they really measured was that the speed of light
>     was the same in all inertial frames. (They repeated
>     the measurement at different times of the year.)

Null results mean the theory behind the experiment is wrong.
>


-- 

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#393903

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-09-26 20:59 +0200
Message-ID<nsbr75$g8i$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#393840
On 26.09.2016 12:14, HGW wrote:
> On 26/09/16 18:17, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> On 25.09.2016 23:02, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>>>
>>> If communication was instant, a pair of events would be either
>>> absolutely simultaneous all frames or separated by the same absolute
>>> time intervals.
>>> That should be obvious, even to you.
>>
>> Indeed it is.
>> But since communication isn't instant then simultaneity isn't
>> necessarily absolute, so we will have to perform experiments
>> in the real world to see if it is.
>>
>> "Relativity of simultaneity" is an inevitable consequence
>> of the invariance of the speed of light.
>
> It would be if light speed was invariant...but it isn't is t Paul.
>
>> And we know what experimental evidence have to say about
>> that, don't we?
>>
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Babcock_Bergman.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Alvager_et_al.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Beckmann_Mandics.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Filippas_Fox.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Brecher.pdf
>
> Very amusing, Paul...
>
>> Now you can kick and scream - it won't help.
>
> I don't haveto Paul. You and your colleagues just keep on uttering the
> same old nonsense and nobody takes any notice any more.
>
> Einstein was fun while it lasted...but it's all gone now..

Did those remarks make the experimental evidence go away? :-D

>>    It is interesting to note that to Kennedy and Thorndike
>>    it was so obvious that "relativity of time" was
>>    a consequence of the invariance of the speed of light
>>    that they called their 1932 'KTX' paper
>>    "Experimental Establishment of the Relativity of Time".
>>
>>     https://paulba.no/paper/Kennedy_Thorndike.pdf
>>
>>     What they really measured was that the speed of light
>>     was the same in all inertial frames. (They repeated
>>     the measurement at different times of the year.)
>
> Null results mean the theory behind the experiment is wrong.

'nuff said! :-D

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#393934

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-09-27 09:24 +1000
Message-ID<nscan7$tog$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393903
On 27/09/16 04:59, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> On 26.09.2016 12:14, HGW wrote:

>>> Indeed it is.
>>> But since communication isn't instant then simultaneity isn't
>>> necessarily absolute, so we will have to perform experiments
>>> in the real world to see if it is.
>>>
>>> "Relativity of simultaneity" is an inevitable consequence
>>> of the invariance of the speed of light.
>>
>> It would be if light speed was invariant...but it isn't is t Paul.
>>
>>> And we know what experimental evidence have to say about
>>> that, don't we?
>>>
>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Babcock_Bergman.pdf
>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Alvager_et_al.pdf
>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Beckmann_Mandics.pdf
>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Filippas_Fox.pdf
>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Brecher.pdf
>>
>> Very amusing, Paul...
>>
>>> Now you can kick and scream - it won't help.
>>
>> I don't haveto Paul. You and your colleagues just keep on uttering the
>> same old nonsense and nobody takes any notice any more.
>>
>> Einstein was fun while it lasted...but it's all gone now..
>
> Did those remarks make the experimental evidence go away? :-D

It will....but lots of red faces will replace it.

>>>    It is interesting to note that to Kennedy and Thorndike
>>>    it was so obvious that "relativity of time" was
>>>    a consequence of the invariance of the speed of light
>>>    that they called their 1932 'KTX' paper
>>>    "Experimental Establishment of the Relativity of Time".
>>>
>>>     https://paulba.no/paper/Kennedy_Thorndike.pdf
>>>
>>>     What they really measured was that the speed of light
>>>     was the same in all inertial frames. (They repeated
>>>     the measurement at different times of the year.)
>>
>> Null results mean the theory behind the experiment is wrong.
>
> 'nuff said! :-D
>


-- 

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#394567

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-10-02 08:45 +0200
Message-ID<e5boo1F7s61U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#393840
Am 26.09.2016 12:14, schrieb HGW:

>> It is interesting to note that to Kennedy and Thorndike
>> it was so obvious that "relativity of time" was
>> a consequence of the invariance of the speed of light
>> that they called their 1932 'KTX' paper
>> "Experimental Establishment of the Relativity of Time".
>>
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Kennedy_Thorndike.pdf
>>
>> What they really measured was that the speed of light
>> was the same in all inertial frames. (They repeated
>> the measurement at different times of the year.)
>
> Null results mean the theory behind the experiment is wrong.

I would like to remind you about the experiment of Martin Grusenick.

This was a vertical interferometer experiment in the fashion of 
Michelson-Morley.

This experiment did show some results in vertical direction.

'Invariant velocity' would also require a governing mechanism along the 
way of the light, which is possibly more important than the act of 
emission.

This could eventually add energy to the beam and keep that beam straight.

Much weaker and much slower the same mechanism could make things drop. 
And that could be measured with a vertical interferometer.


TH

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#394688

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-10-03 08:57 -0500
Message-ID<oYqdneH5ipUt_m_KnZ2dnUU7_81g4p2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#394567
On 10/2/16 10/2/16   1:45 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> I would like to remind you about the experiment of Martin Grusenick.
> This was a vertical interferometer experiment in the fashion of Michelson-Morley.
> This experiment did show some results in vertical direction.

Yes. It showed NOTHING AT ALL about the speed of light, and merely showed that 
his apparatus flexes as it rotates vertically. No surprise.


Tom Roberts

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#394710

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-10-03 18:18 +0200
Message-ID<e5fen2F4fqvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#394688
Am 03.10.2016 15:57, schrieb Tom Roberts:

>> I would like to remind you about the experiment of Martin Grusenick.
>> This was a vertical interferometer experiment in the fashion of
>> Michelson-Morley.
>> This experiment did show some results in vertical direction.
>
> Yes. It showed NOTHING AT ALL about the speed of light, and merely
> showed that his apparatus flexes as it rotates vertically. No surprise.


There is actually no evidence, that the effect was caused by flexing.

There were other experiments, which referred to gravity and used light, 
like e.g. the Pound-Rebka-experiments, which showed an influence of 
gravity on light.

If there is in fact red-shift caused by gravitation, this would cause a 
shift of interference patterns (as Martin Grusenick observed).

It is easy to reproduce a similar effect in other realms of lower frequency:

  If you have interference of two waves of similar frequency, you get a 
stable pattern. If you tune one of these frequencies up and down a bit, 
the interference patterns are expected to move.


TH

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#394736

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-10-04 06:56 +1100
Message-ID<nsud5k$1r47$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#394710
On 04/10/16 03:18, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 03.10.2016 15:57, schrieb Tom Roberts:
>
>>> I would like to remind you about the experiment of Martin Grusenick.
>>> This was a vertical interferometer experiment in the fashion of
>>> Michelson-Morley.
>>> This experiment did show some results in vertical direction.
>>
>> Yes. It showed NOTHING AT ALL about the speed of light, and merely
>> showed that his apparatus flexes as it rotates vertically. No surprise.
>
>
> There is actually no evidence, that the effect was caused by flexing.

The displacements Grusenick saw were far to big to be produced by 
gravity. Tom is correct for once.

> There were other experiments, which referred to gravity and used light,
> like e.g. the Pound-Rebka-experiments, which showed an influence of
> gravity on light.

Many orders of magnitude smaller....

> If there is in fact red-shift caused by gravitation, this would cause a
> shift of interference patterns (as Martin Grusenick observed).

Do the sums before you make more silly claims.

> It is easy to reproduce a similar effect in other realms of lower
> frequency:
>
>   If you have interference of two waves of similar frequency, you get a
> stable pattern. If you tune one of these frequencies up and down a bit,
> the interference patterns are expected to move.
>
>
> TH
>

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#394777

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-10-04 05:14 +0200
Message-ID<e5gl4hFd5leU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#394736
Am 03.10.2016 21:56, schrieb HGWilson, DSc.:

>>>> I would like to remind you about the experiment of Martin Grusenick.
>>>> This was a vertical interferometer experiment in the fashion of
>>>> Michelson-Morley.
>>>> This experiment did show some results in vertical direction.
>>>
>>> Yes. It showed NOTHING AT ALL about the speed of light, and merely
>>> showed that his apparatus flexes as it rotates vertically. No surprise.
>>
>>
>> There is actually no evidence, that the effect was caused by flexing.
>
> The displacements Grusenick saw were far to big to be produced by
> gravity. Tom is correct for once.

Actually he didn't try to measure gravity.

The question is, if the Michelson-Morely experiment contains a 
systematic error, since the measurement was only horizontal, but would 
have shown a result, if carried out vertically.

Since the Michelson-Moreley experiment tried to measure 'the ether' or 
something similar, a vertical result could be a hint for vertical 'ether 
flow'.

If so, this 'ether flow' could eventually have something to do with 
gravity, since gravity is acting in the same direction.


>> There were other experiments, which referred to gravity and used light,
>> like e.g. the Pound-Rebka-experiments, which showed an influence of
>> gravity on light.
>
> Many orders of magnitude smaller....

Smaller than what?

Pound-Rebka showed 'gravitational redshift'.

'Redshift' is a change of frequency of light.

Interference patterns of a laser beam are now patterns, because 
laser-beams are coherent beams of same frequency. If you alter the 
frequency (through the influence of gravity) of one of the beams, the 
interference patterns should move.

This is actually, what Mr. Grusenick had found and what Mr. Roberts 
ascribes to 'flexing'. But Mr. Roberts took this 'flexing' out of thin 
air and provided no evidence whatsover for his claim.

>> If there is in fact red-shift caused by gravitation, this would cause a
>> shift of interference patterns (as Martin Grusenick observed).
>
> Do the sums before you make more silly claims.


Well, calculations could make a statement more valuable. But first 
subject is to think about the result in a conceptual way.

These are questions like: 'does it make sense?',  'what would be 
expected?',  'how could results be interpreted ?' and so forth.

>> It is easy to reproduce a similar effect in other realms of lower
>> frequency:
>>
>> If you have interference of two waves of similar frequency, you get a
>> stable pattern. If you tune one of these frequencies up and down a bit,
>> the interference patterns are expected to move.
>>
>>
The movement of interference patterns could be observed with 
sound-waves, where the frequency of one wave is tuned a little bit up or 
down.

Sound is much easier to adjust in frequency than laser-beams. But the 
principle is actually the same.


TH

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#394783

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-10-04 16:31 +1100
Message-ID<nsvequ$1atj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#394777
On 04/10/16 14:14, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 03.10.2016 21:56, schrieb HGWilson, DSc.:

>> The displacements Grusenick saw were far to big to be produced by
>> gravity. Tom is correct for once.
>
> Actually he didn't try to measure gravity.
>
> The question is, if the Michelson-Morely experiment contains a
> systematic error, since the measurement was only horizontal, but would
> have shown a result, if carried out vertically.
>
> Since the Michelson-Moreley experiment tried to measure 'the ether' or
> something similar, a vertical result could be a hint for vertical 'ether
> flow'.

The Pound Rebka experiment did that. It showed that light speeds up as 
it falls , just like matter does.


> If so, this 'ether flow' could eventually have something to do with
> gravity, since gravity is acting in the same direction.

It is possible that Fields might be made of something resembling 
classical aether but that is as far as the likeness goes.

>>> There were other experiments, which referred to gravity and used light,
>>> like e.g. the Pound-Rebka-experiments, which showed an influence of
>>> gravity on light.
>>
>> Many orders of magnitude smaller....
>
> Smaller than what?

It was sensitive to changes of about 1 part in 10^16.
The MMX only to about 1 in 10^9.

> Pound-Rebka showed 'gravitational redshift'.
>
> 'Redshift' is a change of frequency of light.

Redshift is change in wave arrival rate, ie., a speed change.
Light has no other 'frequency'.


>
>
> Well, calculations could make a statement more valuable. But first
> subject is to think about the result in a conceptual way.
>
> These are questions like: 'does it make sense?',  'what would be
> expected?',  'how could results be interpreted ?' and so forth.

It doesn't make sense because the only way Grusenick could have produced 
that kind of fringe displacement would have been through flimsy apparatus.


> The movement of interference patterns could be observed with
> sound-waves, where the frequency of one wave is tuned a little bit up or
> down.
>
> Sound is much easier to adjust in frequency than laser-beams. But the
> principle is actually the same.

No it isn't.

> TH


-- 

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#394836

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-10-04 15:19 -0500
Message-ID<f9CdnRgjpLMnk2nKnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#394777
On 10/3/16 10/3/16 - 10:14 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> The question is, if the Michelson-Morely experiment contains a systematic error,
> since the measurement was only horizontal, but would have shown a result, if
> carried out vertically.

This is not a "question" to people who understand modern physics. There is no 
doubt whatsoever that if one could rotate a Michelson interferometer PERFECTLY 
RIGIDLY in a vertical plane, its fringes would move. But there are two 
difficulties with this:
  1. it simply is not possible to rotate it perfectly rigidly [#]
  2. the movement of the fringes is predicted to be BILLIONS AND
     BILLIONS of times too small to observe.

	[#] Brillet and Hall performed a related experiment using
	lasers that was about a million times more sensitive than
	the original MMX. They had a residual variation in their
	laser frequency of ~50 Hz (out of ~ 10^15 Hz) that they
	attributed to their rotation axis being off vertical by a
	few microradians. Their apparatus was VASTLY more rigid
	than Grusenick's.

Tom Roberts

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#394881

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-10-05 05:40 +0200
Message-ID<e5jb20F26dvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#394836
Am 04.10.2016 22:19, schrieb Tom Roberts:

>> The question is, if the Michelson-Morely experiment contains a
>> systematic error,
>> since the measurement was only horizontal, but would have shown a
>> result, if
>> carried out vertically.
>
> This is not a "question" to people who understand modern physics. There
> is no doubt whatsoever that if one could rotate a Michelson
> interferometer PERFECTLY RIGIDLY in a vertical plane, its fringes would
> move. But there are two difficulties with this:
> 1. it simply is not possible to rotate it perfectly rigidly [#]
> 2. the movement of the fringes is predicted to be BILLIONS AND
> BILLIONS of times too small to observe.
>
> [#] Brillet and Hall performed a related experiment using
> lasers that was about a million times more sensitive than
> the original MMX. They had a residual variation in their
> laser frequency of ~50 Hz (out of ~ 10^15 Hz) that they
> attributed to their rotation axis being off vertical by a
> few microradians. Their apparatus was VASTLY more rigid
> than Grusenick's.


I would agree.

But why then have you not written about Brillet and Hall and explained, 
that hey had  conducted a similar experiment with a far better device?

So people think, that Mr. Grusenick is treated unfair and something is 
'swept under the rug'.

Sure, Mr. Grusenick's device is flimsy and build from cheap items, you 
could easily buy on e-bay.

But it was not meant to be high-tech and should only demonstrate a 
principle, which is apparently well known.

If this is the case, than it deserves critique, if this knowledge is not 
mentioned anywhere.

Instead the quality of the device and the qualification of the author 
are criticised, even if both are irrelevant in this case.

This is an extremely questionable behaviour of mainstream scientists 
(what you apparently are).


TH



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#394967

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-10-06 10:05 +1100
Message-ID<nt40v3$pas$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#394881
On 05/10/16 14:40, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 04.10.2016 22:19, schrieb Tom Roberts:

>
> I would agree.
>
> But why then have you not written about Brillet and Hall and explained,
> that hey had  conducted a similar experiment with a far better device?
>
> So people think, that Mr. Grusenick is treated unfair and something is
> 'swept under the rug'.
>
> Sure, Mr. Grusenick's device is flimsy and build from cheap items, you
> could easily buy on e-bay.

It is easy to check how flimsy it is....just try to deform with a 
little force it while it is horizontal.


>
> TH
>
>
>
>


-- 

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#395441

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-10-12 04:55 +0200
Message-ID<e65n1iFdvcsU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#394967
Am 06.10.2016 01:05, schrieb HGW:

>> But why then have you not written about Brillet and Hall and explained,
>> that hey had conducted a similar experiment with a far better device?
>>
>> So people think, that Mr. Grusenick is treated unfair and something is
>> 'swept under the rug'.
>>
>> Sure, Mr. Grusenick's device is flimsy and build from cheap items, you
>> could easily buy on e-bay.
>
> It is easy to check how flimsy it is....just try to deform with a little
> force it while it is horizontal.
>
>
Well, yes, but the device carries only a screen and tiny mirrors. The 
screen sits perpendicular to the line, where the aluminium tubes would 
eventually bend. So bending tubes would have not effect, only 
lengthening tube would influence the results.

But for lengthening you need a force. This force is gravity, which would 
require some significant mass.

If the mirrors and the screen were large, their weight could eventually 
stretch the tubes.

But in fact all the tubes had to carry was a small piece of plywood.

So, flimsy or not, the device should not be influenced by gravity, since 
the masses are too small in comparison to the strength of the material.

TH

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#395520

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-10-13 09:02 +1100
Message-ID<ntmbsv$6m8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#395441
On 12/10/16 13:55, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 06.10.2016 01:05, schrieb HGW:

>>
> Well, yes, but the device carries only a screen and tiny mirrors. The
> screen sits perpendicular to the line, where the aluminium tubes would
> eventually bend. So bending tubes would have not effect, only
> lengthening tube would influence the results.
>
> But for lengthening you need a force. This force is gravity, which would
> require some significant mass.
>
> If the mirrors and the screen were large, their weight could eventually
> stretch the tubes.
>
> But in fact all the tubes had to carry was a small piece of plywood.
>
> So, flimsy or not, the device should not be influenced by gravity, since
> the masses are too small in comparison to the strength of the material.
>
> TH

Work out the self compression due to gravity in a vertical 1 metre 
aluminium rod.

You will find that it is considerable in terms of light wavelengths.


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