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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #390090 > unrolled thread

Re: My instantaneous point of view

Started byJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
First post2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
Last post2016-08-23 16:22 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 89 — 6 participants

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Contents

  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:22 -0700
      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:25 -0700
        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-19 18:45 -0700
          Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-20 13:34 +1000
            Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-20 13:17 -0700
              Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-21 12:40 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 16:41 -0700
                  Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 11:31 +1000
                    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:42 -0700
                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:45 -0700
                      Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 12:17 +1000
                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 19:48 -0700
                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:03 -0700
                          Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 13:21 +1000
                            Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:26 -0700
                              Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 14:29 +1000
                          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:22 -0700
                            Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:30 -0700
                              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:39 -0700
                                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 15:18 +1000
                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 08:42 -0700
                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-24 12:54 +1000
                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-24 18:52 -0700
                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-25 16:02 +1000
                                          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 15:29 -0700
                                            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 11:51 +1000
                                              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:02 -0700
                                                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:05 +1000
                                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:09 -0700
                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:40 +1000
                                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:45 -0700
                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:43 +1000
                                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:50 -0700
                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:58 -0700
                                              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:06 -0700
                                                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:45 +1000
                                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:46 -0700
                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:47 -0700
                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 12:59 +1000
                                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 21:11 -0700
                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 15:19 +1000
                                                          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:21 -0700
                                                            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 14:18 +1000
                                                          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:23 -0700
                                                          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 21:32 -0700
                                                            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 15:11 +1000
                                                              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 18:08 -0700
                                                                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 11:28 +1000
                                                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:36 -0700
                                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:41 -0700
                                                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 12:57 +1000
                                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:07 -0700
                                                                          Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 13:45 +1000
                                                                            Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 17:37 -0700
                                                                              Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 11:49 +1000
                                                                                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:59 -0700
                                                                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 13:54 +1000
                                                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:26 -0700
                                                                                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 19:08 -0700
                                                                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 14:00 +1000
                                                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:14 -0700
                                                                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:18 -0700
                                                                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:33 -0700
                                                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 17:37 -0700
                                                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-01 08:53 -0700
                                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:09 -0700
                                                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:53 -0700
                                                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:29 -0700
                                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:42 -0700
                                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:50 -0700
                                                                          Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 04:57 -0700
                                                                            Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 17:25 -0700
                                                                              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 -0700
                                                                                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:05 -0700
                                                                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:12 -0700
                                                                            Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:56 -0700
                                                                              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:03 -0700
                                                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 20:55 -0700
                                                                          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 21:07 -0700
                                                                            Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 21:21 -0700
                                                                              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 22:23 -0700
                                                                                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-07 06:45 -0700
                                Re: My instantaneous point of view mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-21 23:21 -0700
                                  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:12 -0700
                                    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:14 -0700
                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:17 -0700
                                      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:19 -0700
                                        Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:22 -0700

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#390090 — Re: My instantaneous point of view

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
SubjectRe: My instantaneous point of view
Message-ID<12973d1d-ec12-4e75-8bf7-3c7b0b62ef86@googlegroups.com>
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 5:10:50 AM UTC-5, Python wrote:
> Le 14/08/2016 à 06:28, John Gogo a écrit :
> > Someone, may ask, well how can this be true? My answer, would be that
> > we have not yet established a timed baseline long enough to incorporate
> > an instantaneous response. But there are many clues...
> 
> 
> My guess is that you are a kook talking to himself John, with too long
> lines.

I can talk about this stuff all day long, heck.

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#390091

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-15 19:22 -0700
Message-ID<047220f6-b9f7-444b-868a-f05641df0b4e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390090
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:19:56 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 5:10:50 AM UTC-5, Python wrote:
> > Le 14/08/2016 à 06:28, John Gogo a écrit :
> > > Someone, may ask, well how can this be true? My answer, would be that
> > > we have not yet established a timed baseline long enough to incorporate
> > > an instantaneous response. But there are many clues...
> > 
> > 
> > My guess is that you are a kook talking to himself John, with too long
> > lines.
> 
> I can talk about this stuff all day long, heck.

We do not recognize the instantaneousness of lighted body sources is because, when we deal with occurrences like this- there is not baseline long enough to establish a time line. This is a fact, whether you like it or not monkey.

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#390092

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-15 19:25 -0700
Message-ID<8f25307f-5e37-4f3c-b1e6-469b021fd6eb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390091
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:19:56 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 5:10:50 AM UTC-5, Python wrote:
> > > Le 14/08/2016 à 06:28, John Gogo a écrit :
> > > > Someone, may ask, well how can this be true? My answer, would be that
> > > > we have not yet established a timed baseline long enough to incorporate
> > > > an instantaneous response. But there are many clues...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > My guess is that you are a kook talking to himself John, with too long
> > > lines.
> > 
> > I can talk about this stuff all day long, heck.
> 
> We do not recognize the instantaneousness of lighted body sources is because, when we deal with occurrences like this- there is not baseline long enough to establish a time line. This is a fact, whether you like it or not monkey.

We are dealing with the speed of light here.

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#390424

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-19 18:45 -0700
Message-ID<811333f0-5d5d-42cf-8aab-b0f6c8df326d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390092
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:25:49 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:19:56 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 5:10:50 AM UTC-5, Python wrote:
> > > > Le 14/08/2016 à 06:28, John Gogo a écrit :
> > > > > Someone, may ask, well how can this be true? My answer, would be that
> > > > > we have not yet established a timed baseline long enough to incorporate
> > > > > an instantaneous response. But there are many clues...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > My guess is that you are a kook talking to himself John, with too long
> > > > lines.
> > > 
> > > I can talk about this stuff all day long, heck.
> > 
> > We do not recognize the instantaneousness of lighted body sources is because, when we deal with occurrences like this- there is not baseline long enough to establish a time line. This is a fact, whether you like it or not monkey.
> 
> We are dealing with the speed of light here.

Obviously, if we cannot put on the moon, a 10 meter in diameter screen or 50 meter screen(which ever that maximum visual acuity plus the magnitude of our most powerful telescopes would require in order to SEE the screen) this Gedankin will never be possible.

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#390425

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-08-20 13:34 +1000
Message-ID<e1q1deFpi2U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#390424
On 20/08/2016 11:45 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:25:49 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
>> On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:19:56 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 5:10:50 AM UTC-5, Python wrote:
>>>>> Le 14/08/2016 à 06:28, John Gogo a écrit :
>>>>>> Someone, may ask, well how can this be true? My answer, would be that
>>>>>> we have not yet established a timed baseline long enough to incorporate
>>>>>> an instantaneous response. But there are many clues...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My guess is that you are a kook talking to himself John, with too long
>>>>> lines.
>>>>
>>>> I can talk about this stuff all day long, heck.
>>>
>>> We do not recognize the instantaneousness of lighted body sources is because, when we deal with occurrences like this- there is not baseline long enough to establish a time line. This is a fact, whether you like it or not monkey.
>>
>> We are dealing with the speed of light here.
>
> Obviously, if we cannot put on the moon, a 10 meter in diameter screen or 50 meter screen(which ever that maximum visual acuity plus the magnitude of our most powerful telescopes would require in order to SEE the screen) this Gedankin will never be possible.
>

How about we put a retro-reflector on the moon, fire a laser beam at it, 
and measure the transit time?

Sylvia.

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#390450

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-20 13:17 -0700
Message-ID<18dbda6a-dee2-409f-a1e3-cbbfef9b37cd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390425
On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 10:34:10 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 20/08/2016 11:45 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:25:49 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> >> On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> >>> On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 9:19:56 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 5:10:50 AM UTC-5, Python wrote:
> >>>>> Le 14/08/2016 à 06:28, John Gogo a écrit :
> >>>>>> Someone, may ask, well how can this be true? My answer, would be that
> >>>>>> we have not yet established a timed baseline long enough to incorporate
> >>>>>> an instantaneous response. But there are many clues...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My guess is that you are a kook talking to himself John, with too long
> >>>>> lines.
> >>>>
> >>>> I can talk about this stuff all day long, heck.
> >>>
> >>> We do not recognize the instantaneousness of lighted body sources is because, when we deal with occurrences like this- there is not baseline long enough to establish a time line. This is a fact, whether you like it or not monkey.
> >>
> >> We are dealing with the speed of light here.
> >
> > Obviously, if we cannot put on the moon, a 10 meter in diameter screen or 50 meter screen(which ever that maximum visual acuity plus the magnitude of our most powerful telescopes would require in order to SEE the screen) this Gedankin will never be possible.
> >
> 
> How about we put a retro-reflector on the moon, fire a laser beam at it, 
> and measure the transit time?
> 
> Sylvia.
It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.

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#390468

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-08-21 12:40 +1000
Message-ID<e1sik6Fj7arU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#390450
On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:

> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
>
>

So, not instantaneous then.

Sylvia.

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#390530

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 16:41 -0700
Message-ID<820dc899-c731-49c5-833e-3a567ad553a2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390468
On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> 
> > It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> >
> >
> 
> So, not instantaneous then.
> 
> Sylvia.

No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.

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#390536

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-08-22 11:31 +1000
Message-ID<e1v2utF7914U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#390530
On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>
>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
>

Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered 
up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen 
was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be 
observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?

Sylvia.

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#390537

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 18:42 -0700
Message-ID<fa0f0b42-cd56-4076-9b60-f29abfb5dce9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390536
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>
> >>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> So, not instantaneous then.
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
> >
> 
> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered 
> up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen 
> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be 
> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> 
> Sylvia.

Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.

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#390538

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 18:45 -0700
Message-ID<ad01e1d6-1fd7-4e4a-abab-0bde217536a7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390537
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:42:58 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> So, not instantaneous then.
> > >>
> > >> Sylvia.
> > >
> > > No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
> > >
> > 
> > Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered 
> > up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen 
> > was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be 
> > observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> > 
> > Sylvia.
> 
> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.

The fact that we cannot know this yet has to do with the fact that no screen exists that would give us the clear cut answer... but, there are always clues...

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#390540

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-08-22 12:17 +1000
Message-ID<e1v5m7F7qg8U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#390537
On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
>>>
>>
>> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered
>> up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen
>> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be
>> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
>

Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the photons 
representing the largeness of the screen before the photons in the 
returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel faster than the 
latter. Why would they travel faster? How would they know that they 
should travel faster?

Sylvia.

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#390541

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 19:48 -0700
Message-ID<fdc1b17a-4afe-46c4-a560-b8ef14fa6e85@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390540
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So, not instantaneous then.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sylvia.
> >>>
> >>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered
> >> up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen
> >> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be
> >> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
> >
> 
> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the photons 
> representing the largeness of the screen before the photons in the 
> returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel faster than the 
> latter. Why would they travel faster? How would they know that they 
> should travel faster?
> 
> Sylvia.

Let me attempt to give you some insight on the subject of Maximum Visual Acuity MVA:

MVA is the power of the observer's magnitude ability to make objects observable that exist in nature, large enough to be seen. If we hold our MVA up to nature and the universe, how do we fare? The answer to this is not very significant. With our eyes has evolved a power- a magnification which is limited. The general definition of MVA, according to Guyton, says that a 1mm. object's limit to be seen exists at a distance of 10 meters. The magnitude of this length and width measure is 10,000 to 1. Now, all objects which are large enough and are illuminated "fall into" this ratio are observed instantly- without a signal. It is simply the best definition of mankind's ability to measure objects. Ultimately, MVA is extremely limited. The stars and planets in the sky are limited by our observation! We do not see most of what is going on in the universe because the phenomena simply fails to register to our very limited measures of MVA

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#390544

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 20:03 -0700
Message-ID<784d5b96-dc30-4091-9a35-3b8215a8bd67@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390540
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So, not instantaneous then.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sylvia.
> >>>
> >>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered
> >> up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen
> >> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be
> >> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
> >
> 
> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the photons 
> representing the largeness of the screen before the photons in the 
> returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel faster than the 
> latter. Why would they travel faster? How would they know that they 
> should travel faster?
> 
> Sylvia.

You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons" from which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like this. Think about why the object is large as it is and what makes this possible. Then you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't do this. Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.

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#390546

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-08-22 13:21 +1000
Message-ID<e1v9doF8i88U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#390544
On 22/08/2016 1:03 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one
>>>>>>> second if one-way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of
>>>>> the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is
>>>>> instantaneous.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially
>>>> covered up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector,
>>>> the large screen was uncovered. Do you maintain that the
>>>> largeness of the screen could be observed before the returning
>>>> laser pulse reaches the Earth?
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
>>>
>>
>> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the
>> photons representing the largeness of the screen before the photons
>> in the returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel
>> faster than the latter. Why would they travel faster? How would
>> they know that they should travel faster?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons" from
> which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like
> this. Think about why the object is large as it is and what makes
> this possible. Then you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't
> do this. Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in
> seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.
>

There is no image of the screen until the photons from it arrive at the 
retina.

Sylvia.

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#390548

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 20:26 -0700
Message-ID<e90c74c7-6674-4c31-bdba-fb396bdbb65f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390546
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:21:31 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 22/08/2016 1:03 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one
> >>>>>>> second if one-way.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sylvia.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of
> >>>>> the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is
> >>>>> instantaneous.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially
> >>>> covered up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector,
> >>>> the large screen was uncovered. Do you maintain that the
> >>>> largeness of the screen could be observed before the returning
> >>>> laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> >>>>
> >>>> Sylvia.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the
> >> photons representing the largeness of the screen before the photons
> >> in the returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel
> >> faster than the latter. Why would they travel faster? How would
> >> they know that they should travel faster?
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons" from
> > which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like
> > this. Think about why the object is large as it is and what makes
> > this possible. Then you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't
> > do this. Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in
> > seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.
> >
> 
> There is no image of the screen until the photons from it arrive at the 
> retina.
> 
> Sylvia.

Arrive at the speed of light, right? This is the current theory, but it is only a theory. The time it take for photons to leave the source and "fall into the eyes". Trust me, there's more to it than that.

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#390552

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-08-22 14:29 +1000
Message-ID<e1vdd5F9dkeU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#390548
On 22/08/2016 1:26 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:21:31 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22/08/2016 1:03 PM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one
>>>>>>>>> second if one-way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of
>>>>>>> the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is
>>>>>>> instantaneous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially
>>>>>> covered up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector,
>>>>>> the large screen was uncovered. Do you maintain that the
>>>>>> largeness of the screen could be observed before the returning
>>>>>> laser pulse reaches the Earth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the
>>>> photons representing the largeness of the screen before the photons
>>>> in the returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel
>>>> faster than the latter. Why would they travel faster? How would
>>>> they know that they should travel faster?
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons" from
>>> which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like
>>> this. Think about why the object is large as it is and what makes
>>> this possible. Then you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't
>>> do this. Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in
>>> seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.
>>>
>>
>> There is no image of the screen until the photons from it arrive at the
>> retina.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Arrive at the speed of light, right? This is the current theory, but it is only a theory. The time it take for photons to leave the source and "fall into the eyes". Trust me, there's more to it than that.
>
It's not "only" a theory. It's a model of the behaviour of light that's 
stood up to every test scientists have been able to devise. There is 
nothing to suggest it's not how light behaves. Your notion, by contrast, 
is just a wild speculation based on nothing at all.

Sylvia.

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#390547

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 20:22 -0700
Message-ID<3a9cb0fe-b2f8-4a3f-bf30-131c33dae0a6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390544
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > >>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So, not instantaneous then.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sylvia.
> > >>>
> > >>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered
> > >> up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen
> > >> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be
> > >> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> > >>
> > >> Sylvia.
> > >
> > > Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
> > >
> > 
> > Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the photons 
> > representing the largeness of the screen before the photons in the 
> > returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel faster than the 
> > latter. Why would they travel faster? How would they know that they 
> > should travel faster?
> > 
> > Sylvia.
> 
> You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons" from which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like this. Think about why the object is large as it is and what makes this possible. Then you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't do this. Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.
This is the only way you are going to spatially be able to tell a time difference.

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#390549

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 20:30 -0700
Message-ID<0462b7c6-2605-49a4-b2b2-5e702c536de6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390547
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:22:05 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > >> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > >>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > >>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> So, not instantaneous then.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Sylvia.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered
> > > >> up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen
> > > >> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be
> > > >> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> > > >>
> > > >> Sylvia.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the photons 
> > > representing the largeness of the screen before the photons in the 
> > > returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel faster than the 
> > > latter. Why would they travel faster? How would they know that they 
> > > should travel faster?
> > > 
> > > Sylvia.
> > 
> > You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons" from which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like this. Think about why the object is large as it is and what makes this possible. Then you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't do this. Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.
> This is the only way you are going to spatially be able to tell a time difference.

I'm just giving you the facts here... you can like it or not.

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#390550

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-08-21 20:39 -0700
Message-ID<85c15dd2-d09d-462a-917d-0b4f29e0367e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#390549
On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:30:11 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:22:05 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > > On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > > >> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > > >>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to Earth, one second if one-way.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> So, not instantaneous then.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Sylvia.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was initially covered
> > > > >> up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen
> > > > >> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the screen could be
> > > > >> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sylvia.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the photons 
> > > > representing the largeness of the screen before the photons in the 
> > > > returning laser pulse, the former would have to travel faster than the 
> > > > latter. Why would they travel faster? How would they know that they 
> > > > should travel faster?
> > > > 
> > > > Sylvia.
> > > 
> > > You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons" from which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like this. Think about why the object is large as it is and what makes this possible. Then you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't do this. Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.
> > This is the only way you are going to spatially be able to tell a time difference.
> 
> I'm just giving you the facts here... you can like it or not.

For instance, the Jupiter moon measure... I refuse to believe that the 22 minutes of the six month variation of occultation of the Jupiter's two main moons have anything to do with the speed of light. I believe the 22 minutes means something else. Now, I know what the 22 minutes means to you, but do you know what the 22 minutes mean to me?

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