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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #369850 > unrolled thread

Instantaneous action at a distance is real

Started byJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
First post2015-11-12 16:50 -0800
Last post2015-11-21 13:36 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 84 — 12 participants

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  Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-12 16:50 -0800
    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-13 12:09 -0800
    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-14 12:18 +1100
      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 22:41 -0800
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-14 17:42 +1100
          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 23:09 -0800
          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Ty Knotts <TyKnotts@hotmail.org> - 2015-11-14 16:16 +0000
            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-15 13:57 +1100
              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 10:10 -0800
                Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-16 11:21 +1100
                  Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 16:54 -0800
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-16 12:04 +1100
                      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 17:13 -0800
                        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 17:19 -0800
                        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-16 12:23 +1100
                          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 17:43 -0800
      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-14 11:17 -0800
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-15 13:57 +1100
          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-15 14:43 -0800
            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-16 11:19 +1100
              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-16 12:50 -0800
    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-13 22:40 -0800
      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-13 23:01 -0800
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 04:53 -0500
          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 02:22 -0800
            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 12:25 +0100
              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 04:30 -0800
              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 04:34 -0800
                Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-14 05:05 -0800
                  Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 05:23 -0800
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-14 05:55 -0800
                      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 06:05 -0800
                        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-14 06:36 -0800
                          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 07:13 -0800
                            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 16:34 +0100
                            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-14 07:36 -0800
                              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-14 08:03 -0800
                              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 17:04 +0100
                        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 16:08 +0100
                        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 16:08 +0100
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 14:27 -0500
                Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 08:29 -0500
                  Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-14 05:58 -0800
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 14:30 -0500
                      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 11:40 -0800
                        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 15:00 -0500
                          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 12:06 -0800
                            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 16:07 -0500
                          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-14 12:12 -0800
                      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-14 11:57 -0800
                        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 15:03 -0500
                          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Ty Knotts <TyKnotts@hotmail.org> - 2015-11-14 20:20 +0000
                            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 16:19 -0500
                  Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 06:11 -0800
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 14:32 -0500
                Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 09:31 -0600
            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 08:23 -0500
              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Ty Knotts <TyKnotts@hotmail.org> - 2015-11-14 16:27 +0000
                Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Ty Knotts <TyKnotts@hotmail.org> - 2015-11-14 16:52 +0000
                Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-14 14:40 -0500
                  Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Ty Knotts <TyKnotts@hotmail.org> - 2015-11-14 20:13 +0000
              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:15 -0600
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 11:26 -0800
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 09:29 -0600
          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-16 07:41 -0800
      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 23:25 -0800
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-14 02:21 -0800
          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-20 20:04 -0800
            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-20 21:15 -0800
              Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 18:38 -0800
                Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 19:02 -0800
                  Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-12-11 05:37 -0800
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-11 17:03 -0800
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-11 17:23 -0800
                    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 21:46 -0800
                      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-13 19:36 -0800
                      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-13 19:41 -0800
                  Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-11 17:29 -0800
    Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-11-17 13:51 -0800
      Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-11-17 14:01 -0800
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-11-17 14:06 -0800
        Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-17 14:26 -0800
          Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-11-17 14:39 -0800
            Re: Instantaneous action at a distance is real alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-21 13:36 -0800

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#369850 — Instantaneous action at a distance is real

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2015-11-12 16:50 -0800
SubjectInstantaneous action at a distance is real
Message-ID<8205fc8c-7eac-4141-8294-c8d3be48bb70@googlegroups.com>
http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html

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#369881

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2015-11-13 12:09 -0800
Message-ID<0b2b5ab2-0bb2-4cd0-a2e7-99c0be31514b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#369850
W dniu piątek, 13 listopada 2015 01:50:40 UTC+1 użytkownik John Gogo napisał:
> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html

Bell was a mathematical imbecile: IQ <= 79. :)

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#369903

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-14 12:18 +1100
Message-ID<dangeiFns93U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#369850
On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
>

They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.

There is still no evidence for any action at a distance.

Sylvia.

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#369913

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2015-11-13 22:41 -0800
Message-ID<fb604403-06f7-4565-bbd6-a8f700bce395@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#369903
On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 7:18:14 PM UTC-6, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
> >
> 
> They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.
> 
> There is still no evidence for any action at a distance.
> 
> Sylvia.

But it's NIST!

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#369914

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-14 17:42 +1100
Message-ID<dao3ecFruvuU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#369913
On 14/11/2015 5:41 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 7:18:14 PM UTC-6, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
>>>
>>
>> They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.
>>
>> There is still no evidence for any action at a distance.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> But it's NIST!
>

I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is 
evidence for action at a distance.

Sylvia.

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#369917

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2015-11-13 23:09 -0800
Message-ID<c4c896e8-a149-467e-862f-48262158a683@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#369914
On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 12:42:23 AM UTC-6, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 14/11/2015 5:41 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> > On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 7:18:14 PM UTC-6, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.
> >>
> >> There is still no evidence for any action at a distance.
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > But it's NIST!
> >
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is 
> evidence for action at a distance.
> 
> Sylvia.

Your tough to satisfy.

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#369977

FromTy Knotts <TyKnotts@hotmail.org>
Date2015-11-14 16:16 +0000
Message-ID<n27mpc$fc5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#369914
W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
napisał:

> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
> evidence for action at a distance.

If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.

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#370080

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-15 13:57 +1100
Message-ID<daqak2Ff4g6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#369977
On 15/11/2015 3:16 AM, Ty Knotts wrote:
> W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
> napisał:
>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
>> evidence for action at a distance.
>
> If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
> other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.
>

John appears to think that the cited experiment is evidence for action 
at a distance. He is mistaken.

Sylvia.

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#370122

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 10:10 -0800
Message-ID<be4a0e29-9f4c-4b1a-827c-8a7f95fb734e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#370080
On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 6:57:09 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 15/11/2015 3:16 AM, Ty Knotts wrote:
> > W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
> > napisał:
> >
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
> >> evidence for action at a distance.
> >
> > If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
> > other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.
> >
> 
> John appears to think that the cited experiment is evidence for action 
> at a distance. He is mistaken.
> 
> Sylvia.

The effects of gravity's changes (as a force) 
are instantaneous with motion and distance.

The mentioned experiment is spin entanglement 
or quantum entanglement "hidden variables" not 
"spooky action", as of long distance equilibrium 
effects as via gravity.

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#370157

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-16 11:21 +1100
Message-ID<daslrpF3802U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#370122
On 16/11/2015 5:10 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 6:57:09 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 15/11/2015 3:16 AM, Ty Knotts wrote:
>>> W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
>>> napisał:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
>>>> evidence for action at a distance.
>>>
>>> If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
>>> other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.
>>>
>>
>> John appears to think that the cited experiment is evidence for action
>> at a distance. He is mistaken.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> The effects of gravity's changes (as a force)
> are instantaneous with motion and distance.

You've tested that? How?

>
> The mentioned experiment is spin entanglement
> or quantum entanglement "hidden variables" not
> "spooky action", as of long distance equilibrium
> effects as via gravity.
>

Bell's theorem (note, theorem, not theory) excludes the hidden variable 
solution.

Sylvia.

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#370160

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 16:54 -0800
Message-ID<07b96003-a207-427b-8d5f-a003850d51d9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#370157
On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 4:21:16 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 16/11/2015 5:10 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 6:57:09 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 15/11/2015 3:16 AM, Ty Knotts wrote:
> >>> W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
> >>> napisał:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
> >>>> evidence for action at a distance.
> >>>
> >>> If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
> >>> other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.
> >>>
> >>
> >> John appears to think that the cited experiment is evidence for action
> >> at a distance. He is mistaken.
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > The effects of gravity's changes (as a force)
> > are instantaneous with motion and distance.
> 
> You've tested that? How?
> 
> >
> > The mentioned experiment is spin entanglement
> > or quantum entanglement "hidden variables" not
> > "spooky action", as of long distance equilibrium
> > effects as via gravity.
> >
> 
> Bell's theorem (note, theorem, not theory) excludes the hidden variable 
> solution.
> 
> Sylvia.

Here "hidden variables" is "quantum entanglement 
field effect" or in a sense "same crest snowflake 
of the wave that was that particle".

This is where the notional snowflake is that each 
is unique, here that the wave that was that "particle" 
tips out or crests the same for each, "quantum 
entanglement", I guess that's about Bell and E-P-R 
(Einstein Podolsky Rosen).

Information propagates at < c.

For testing gravity's instantaneous effect, the 
Earth doesn't have massy bodies moving near c, for 
usually the astronomical survey to find systems that 
would so exhibit here the usual constant force of 
gravity and the instantaneous effect to all reference 
frames of changes (for example as "curving space-time" 
does).

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#370161

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-16 12:04 +1100
Message-ID<dasocvF3sn0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#370160
On 16/11/2015 11:54 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 4:21:16 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 16/11/2015 5:10 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
>>> On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 6:57:09 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 15/11/2015 3:16 AM, Ty Knotts wrote:
>>>>> W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
>>>>> napisał:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
>>>>>> evidence for action at a distance.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
>>>>> other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John appears to think that the cited experiment is evidence for action
>>>> at a distance. He is mistaken.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> The effects of gravity's changes (as a force)
>>> are instantaneous with motion and distance.
>>
>> You've tested that? How?
>>
>>>
>>> The mentioned experiment is spin entanglement
>>> or quantum entanglement "hidden variables" not
>>> "spooky action", as of long distance equilibrium
>>> effects as via gravity.
>>>
>>
>> Bell's theorem (note, theorem, not theory) excludes the hidden variable
>> solution.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Here "hidden variables" is "quantum entanglement
> field effect" or in a sense "same crest snowflake
> of the wave that was that particle".

It's not helpful to redefine terms that have an accepted meaning.

>
> This is where the notional snowflake is that each
> is unique, here that the wave that was that "particle"
> tips out or crests the same for each, "quantum
> entanglement", I guess that's about Bell and E-P-R
> (Einstein Podolsky Rosen).
>

I have no idea what you're trying to say there.

> Information propagates at < c.

It can propagate at c. It's not constrained to be less than c.


>
> For testing gravity's instantaneous effect, the
> Earth doesn't have massy bodies moving near c, for
> usually the astronomical survey to find systems that
> would so exhibit here the usual constant force of
> gravity and the instantaneous effect to all reference
> frames of changes (for example as "curving space-time"
> does).
>
That appears to be gibberish.

Sylvia.

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#370164

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 17:13 -0800
Message-ID<6335ef67-1b5a-40f3-846e-b002534fe789@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#370161
On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 5:04:34 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 16/11/2015 11:54 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 4:21:16 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 16/11/2015 5:10 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 6:57:09 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 15/11/2015 3:16 AM, Ty Knotts wrote:
> >>>>> W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
> >>>>> napisał:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
> >>>>>> evidence for action at a distance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
> >>>>> other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> John appears to think that the cited experiment is evidence for action
> >>>> at a distance. He is mistaken.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sylvia.
> >>>
> >>> The effects of gravity's changes (as a force)
> >>> are instantaneous with motion and distance.
> >>
> >> You've tested that? How?
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The mentioned experiment is spin entanglement
> >>> or quantum entanglement "hidden variables" not
> >>> "spooky action", as of long distance equilibrium
> >>> effects as via gravity.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Bell's theorem (note, theorem, not theory) excludes the hidden variable
> >> solution.
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > Here "hidden variables" is "quantum entanglement
> > field effect" or in a sense "same crest snowflake
> > of the wave that was that particle".
> 
> It's not helpful to redefine terms that have an accepted meaning.
> 
> >
> > This is where the notional snowflake is that each
> > is unique, here that the wave that was that "particle"
> > tips out or crests the same for each, "quantum
> > entanglement", I guess that's about Bell and E-P-R
> > (Einstein Podolsky Rosen).
> >
> 
> I have no idea what you're trying to say there.
> 
> > Information propagates at < c.
> 
> It can propagate at c. It's not constrained to be less than c.
> 
> 
> >
> > For testing gravity's instantaneous effect, the
> > Earth doesn't have massy bodies moving near c, for
> > usually the astronomical survey to find systems that
> > would so exhibit here the usual constant force of
> > gravity and the instantaneous effect to all reference
> > frames of changes (for example as "curving space-time"
> > does).
> >
> That appears to be gibberish.
> 
> Sylvia.

In the curved space model, the space about 
massy bodies is instantaneously defined by 
their mass(es).

Tests upholding this are usually also of 
the rest of the standard etcetera.

Here "hidden variables" is more along the 
lines of "shared constants" of the two 
entangled particles.

Right, information propagates at <= c, thank you.

(There is an instant of recognition, though.  That 
is in part about what the measurement / observer 
effect _is_ and what it _does_.)

EPR, M-M, and Bell are names of experiments 
usually used to establish various interpretations 
(or decisions, un-scientific) of effect.  They've 
seen various interpretations and decisions over time.

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#370165

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 17:19 -0800
Message-ID<3c746198-d054-46e2-b1cf-0296a7235888@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#370164
On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 5:13:39 PM UTC-8, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 5:04:34 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > On 16/11/2015 11:54 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 4:21:16 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >> On 16/11/2015 5:10 AM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> > >>> On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 6:57:09 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >>>> On 15/11/2015 3:16 AM, Ty Knotts wrote:
> > >>>>> W dniu Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:33:26 +0600 (PDT) użytkownik Sylvia Else
> > >>>>> napisał:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'm not sure what you mean by that. NIST haven't said that this is
> > >>>>>> evidence for action at a distance.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If there is none, why are you talking about it. It could be, once the the
> > >>>>> other entangled particle needs to turn itself upside-done.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John appears to think that the cited experiment is evidence for action
> > >>>> at a distance. He is mistaken.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sylvia.
> > >>>
> > >>> The effects of gravity's changes (as a force)
> > >>> are instantaneous with motion and distance.
> > >>
> > >> You've tested that? How?
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> The mentioned experiment is spin entanglement
> > >>> or quantum entanglement "hidden variables" not
> > >>> "spooky action", as of long distance equilibrium
> > >>> effects as via gravity.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Bell's theorem (note, theorem, not theory) excludes the hidden variable
> > >> solution.
> > >>
> > >> Sylvia.
> > >
> > > Here "hidden variables" is "quantum entanglement
> > > field effect" or in a sense "same crest snowflake
> > > of the wave that was that particle".
> > 
> > It's not helpful to redefine terms that have an accepted meaning.
> > 
> > >
> > > This is where the notional snowflake is that each
> > > is unique, here that the wave that was that "particle"
> > > tips out or crests the same for each, "quantum
> > > entanglement", I guess that's about Bell and E-P-R
> > > (Einstein Podolsky Rosen).
> > >
> > 
> > I have no idea what you're trying to say there.
> > 
> > > Information propagates at < c.
> > 
> > It can propagate at c. It's not constrained to be less than c.
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > For testing gravity's instantaneous effect, the
> > > Earth doesn't have massy bodies moving near c, for
> > > usually the astronomical survey to find systems that
> > > would so exhibit here the usual constant force of
> > > gravity and the instantaneous effect to all reference
> > > frames of changes (for example as "curving space-time"
> > > does).
> > >
> > That appears to be gibberish.
> > 
> > Sylvia.
> 
> In the curved space model, the space about 
> massy bodies is instantaneously defined by 
> their mass(es).
> 
> Tests upholding this are usually also of 
> the rest of the standard etcetera.
> 
> Here "hidden variables" is more along the 
> lines of "shared constants" of the two 
> entangled particles.
> 
> Right, information propagates at <= c, thank you.
> 
> (There is an instant of recognition, though.  That 
> is in part about what the measurement / observer 
> effect _is_ and what it _does_.)
> 
> EPR, M-M, and Bell are names of experiments 
> usually used to establish various interpretations 
> (or decisions, un-scientific) of effect.  They've 
> seen various interpretations and decisions over time.

(These are or were sometimes called "paradoxes", 
some have no paradoxes in theory, for eventual 
decisions or resolutions, or impasse.)

No paradoxes!  The value of Einstein's cosmological 
constant is a real mathematical infinitesimal.

Most relativistic experiment we can have at scale 
are mostly observational of the sky survey, where 
otherwise for the simple "gravity is instantaneous 
effect" that would be a laboratory more or less free 
of influence of any other massy body, i.e., "far, 
far away".

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#370166

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-16 12:23 +1100
Message-ID<daspglF44n0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#370164
On 16/11/2015 12:13 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:

> Here "hidden variables" is more along the
> lines of "shared constants" of the two
> entangled particles.

Bell's theorem proves that such a system cannot produce the observed 
results.

Sylvia.

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#370168

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 17:43 -0800
Message-ID<2da20c78-912b-4598-b405-7ba7ee2fabf1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#370166
On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 5:23:37 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 16/11/2015 12:13 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> 
> > Here "hidden variables" is more along the
> > lines of "shared constants" of the two
> > entangled particles.
> 
> Bell's theorem proves that such a system cannot produce the observed 
> results.
> 
> Sylvia.

"No physical theory of 
local hidden variables 
can ever reproduce all 
of the predictions of 
quantum mechanics."

Here, the value of the spin 
of the particles is of their 
quantum entanglement that 
they are evaluated together 
and basically represent the 
same wave, as a particle, 
not two particles.

Otherwise I agree that the 
system does not have any 
indeterminism, where even 
the probabilistic outcomes 
are deterministic, for an 
interpretation of Bell's 
theorem.  

There's no structure beneath 
the probabilistic, but quantum 
entanglement involves an effect 
over a region and that the 
"particles" (echoes of a wave) 
are so "entangled" as they are the 
same event (the echo of the wave).


Besides the fact that 
gravity is built into 
the geometry, gravity 
is absolute, or rather 
because gravity is absolute, 
it's built into the geometry.

(Then about whether space-time 
is really curved and how lensing 
establishes that, there's a notion 
of establishing the Fresnel optical 
lensing of relatively large massy 
and shiny bodies like suns.  Either 
way, gravity isn't not instantaneous, 
and gravity is a constant "force", 
that is the field of all the things.)

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#370004

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2015-11-14 11:17 -0800
Message-ID<713994b5-caff-487b-80a2-6efcc0433cac@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#369903
W dniu sobota, 14 listopada 2015 02:18:14 UTC+1 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
> On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> > http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
> >
> 
> They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.

Indeed. There are always a great predictions of any fallacy... HAHAHA!

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#370081

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-15 13:57 +1100
Message-ID<daqal4Ff4g6U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#370004
On 15/11/2015 6:17 AM, alsor@interia.pl wrote:
> W dniu sobota, 14 listopada 2015 02:18:14 UTC+1 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
>> On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
>>>
>>
>> They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.
>
> Indeed. There are always a great predictions of any fallacy... HAHAHA!
>

The correlations are real enough.

Sylvia.

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#370145

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2015-11-15 14:43 -0800
Message-ID<47ec92d4-9b1d-4439-a84c-f693f0ee707c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#370081
W dniu niedziela, 15 listopada 2015 03:57:43 UTC+1 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
> On 15/11/2015 6:17 AM, alsor@interia.pl wrote:
> > W dniu sobota, 14 listopada 2015 02:18:14 UTC+1 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
> >> On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> >>> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.
> >
> > Indeed. There are always a great predictions of any fallacy... HAHAHA!
> >
> 
> The correlations are real enough.
> 
> Sylvia.

These are artificial, thus nonrealistic, unfortunately.

|x-y| <= 1 - xy; for any numbers: x,y from [-1,1];

Thus the QM self-contradicts itself - it's a naked fallacy..
just a pseudoscience, like the flat Earth and
other such absurdity without any ground.

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#370156

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2015-11-16 11:19 +1100
Message-ID<daslojF3802U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#370145
On 16/11/2015 9:43 AM, alsor@interia.pl wrote:
> W dniu niedziela, 15 listopada 2015 03:57:43 UTC+1 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
>> On 15/11/2015 6:17 AM, alsor@interia.pl wrote:
>>> W dniu sobota, 14 listopada 2015 02:18:14 UTC+1 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
>>>> On 13/11/2015 11:50 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-nist-team-spooky-action-distance.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They've verified the correlations predicted by quantum mechanics.
>>>
>>> Indeed. There are always a great predictions of any fallacy... HAHAHA!
>>>
>>
>> The correlations are real enough.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> These are artificial, thus nonrealistic, unfortunately.

It predicts the results of certain measurements, and when we do the 
measurements, we get the predicted results. That's real enough in the 
ordinary sense of the word.

Sylvia.

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