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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #358787 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-07-26 23:44 -0500 |
| Last post | 2015-07-28 22:01 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 97 — 16 participants |
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Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-07-26 23:44 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-07-27 22:52 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-07-28 16:41 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-01 12:32 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-02 15:51 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-02 20:29 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:12 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 00:07 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-02 19:32 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-03 12:17 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 19:00 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Bohuš Matuška <bohu@paranetnet.net> - 2015-08-03 18:01 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 20:31 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Bohuš Matuška <bohu@paranetnet.net> - 2015-08-03 19:28 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 18:01 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-03 19:47 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-03 14:52 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 23:00 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Ignorant Raving Crackpot <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 14:32 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-06 10:36 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 07:58 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 08:35 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-07 10:13 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 00:26 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-07 22:25 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 07:14 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-08 05:44 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-08 13:23 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-08 10:16 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-08 10:34 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 10:47 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 17:09 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-09 17:24 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 17:56 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 20:05 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 18:44 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-09 19:08 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:49 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 19:53 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 18:47 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-09 17:52 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 00:07 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 22:33 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-09 22:55 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-09 22:58 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:54 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 17:38 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-10 18:07 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 01:11 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 23:28 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-09 20:43 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:55 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 11:01 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-10 09:32 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 17:42 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 11:38 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 23:00 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-11 22:27 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 22:12 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-11 20:05 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-12 23:32 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:32 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:30 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:11 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 08:23 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:28 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:20 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:22 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:24 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:10 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:15 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:21 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 06:24 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:31 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-13 19:02 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-13 19:07 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-13 16:26 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Ignorant Raving Crackpot <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 14:13 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 16:35 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-13 21:52 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Ignorant Raving Crackpot <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 21:46 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 07:42 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-14 14:04 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 16:02 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-13 18:57 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) - 2015-08-13 12:27 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 22:20 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 11:39 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 12:42 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 14:40 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 22:35 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-12 21:56 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 17:57 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-07-30 11:03 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-08-04 03:10 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-04 17:24 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System wobbly <wobbly@dont-email.me> - 2015-07-28 22:01 +0000
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-07 07:58 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq1hbr$aui$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #359815 |
Dne 06/08/2015 v 16:36 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > > For that I looked up > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbal#Inertial_navigation > which fills in more detail about the function of gimbals. The article > has a number of errors, since it is apparently written by someone with > no actual knowledge because he says that gimbal angles are measured to > provide the 9 direction cosines needed for navigation. instead, the 3 > resolvers (transformers) automatically parcel out all the gyro > signals to the proper axes. > Therefore I edited it, which was apparently effective immediately. > (See inertial navigation section). > > John Polasek > Are you aware this may be against WP editing and mainly source policy ? Original or personal opinion based information is not allowed, unless referenced to external resources. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-07 08:35 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq1jge$h4p$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #359815 |
Dne 06/08/2015 v 16:36 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > ............because he says that gimbal angles are measured to > provide the 9 direction cosines needed for navigation. instead, the 3 > resolvers (transformers) automatically parcel out all the gyro > signals to the proper axes. "These resolvers perform an automatic matrix transformation according to each gimbal angle.......... The gimbal angle is never measured. " If "The gimbal angle is never measured. " than what does mean "according to each gimbal angle" ? -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-07 10:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lae9sapm5egecld2d974b6iuf2ne7djatv@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #359882 |
On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 08:35:26 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: >Dne 06/08/2015 v 16:36 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > >> ............because he says that gimbal angles are measured to >> provide the 9 direction cosines needed for navigation. instead, the 3 >> resolvers (transformers) automatically parcel out all the gyro >> signals to the proper axes. > >"These resolvers perform an automatic matrix transformation according to >each gimbal angle.......... The gimbal angle is never measured. " > >If "The gimbal angle is never measured. " >than what does mean >"according to each gimbal angle" ? The stable platform coordinate system is separated from the airplane's coordinate system by rotations through roll pitch and yaw angles. Platform error signals must be transformed by these rotations to make sense in the other coordinate system. Therefore the axles are each fitted out with a resolver that automatically does the coordinate transformation electromagnetically. The stator and the rotor each have a pair of windings at right angles to each other like an L or like the 2 base vectors X, Y. A gyro signal is connected to one of the stator windings say X. It shows up in the rotor as the components X', Y' having been transformed by the rotation matrix for that particular axis. Then the signals X', Y' are applied to another subsequent resolver to take care of that rotation. It is all very nifty and it is apparent that almost no one on earth understands resolvers. This makes it quite apparent that nobody's writing down the gimbal angles and finding the 9 direction cosines. John Polasek
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-08 00:26 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq3b8a$427$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #359919 |
Dne 07/08/2015 v 16:13 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 08:35:26 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Dne 06/08/2015 v 16:36 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> >>> ............because he says that gimbal angles are measured to >>> provide the 9 direction cosines needed for navigation. instead, the 3 >>> resolvers (transformers) automatically parcel out all the gyro >>> signals to the proper axes. >> >> "These resolvers perform an automatic matrix transformation according to >> each gimbal angle.......... The gimbal angle is never measured. " >> >> If "The gimbal angle is never measured. " >> than what does mean >> "according to each gimbal angle" ? > The stable platform coordinate system is separated from the airplane's > coordinate system by rotations through roll pitch and yaw angles. > Platform error signals must be transformed by these rotations to make > sense in the other coordinate system. Therefore the axles are each > fitted out with a resolver that automatically does the coordinate > transformation electromagnetically. > The stator and the rotor each have a pair of windings at right angles > to each other like an L or like the 2 base vectors X, Y. A gyro signal > is connected to one of the stator windings say X. It shows up in the > rotor as the components X', Y' having been transformed by the > rotation matrix for that particular axis. Then the signals X', Y' are > applied to another subsequent resolver to take care of that rotation. > It is all very nifty and it is apparent that almost no one on earth > understands resolvers. So you are one of the few manufacturers of the gimbal gyroscopes.... > This makes it quite apparent that nobody's writing down the gimbal > angles and finding the 9 direction cosines. Why do you ever think anybody would want to do that ? ( unless employing army of small inteligent dwarf ) Resolvers do that implicitly. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-07 22:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <akoasape978vfem3s0es2dbk6uaatro057@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #359966 |
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 00:26:52 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: >Dne 07/08/2015 v 16:13 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 08:35:26 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Dne 06/08/2015 v 16:36 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >>> >>>> ............because he says that gimbal angles are measured to >>>> provide the 9 direction cosines needed for navigation. instead, the 3 >>>> resolvers (transformers) automatically parcel out all the gyro >>>> signals to the proper axes. >>> >>> "These resolvers perform an automatic matrix transformation according to >>> each gimbal angle.......... The gimbal angle is never measured. " >>> >>> If "The gimbal angle is never measured. " >>> than what does mean >>> "according to each gimbal angle" ? >> The stable platform coordinate system is separated from the airplane's >> coordinate system by rotations through roll pitch and yaw angles. >> Platform error signals must be transformed by these rotations to make >> sense in the other coordinate system. Therefore the axles are each >> fitted out with a resolver that automatically does the coordinate >> transformation electromagnetically. >> The stator and the rotor each have a pair of windings at right angles >> to each other like an L or like the 2 base vectors X, Y. A gyro signal >> is connected to one of the stator windings say X. It shows up in the >> rotor as the components X', Y' having been transformed by the >> rotation matrix for that particular axis. Then the signals X', Y' are >> applied to another subsequent resolver to take care of that rotation. >> It is all very nifty and it is apparent that almost no one on earth >> understands resolvers. > >So you are one of the few manufacturers of the gimbal gyroscopes.... I'm not acquainted with that term. I spent 20 years in the 50s and 60s analyzing inertial guidance systems. Apparently the 1st time you ever heard of them was last week. >> This makes it quite apparent that nobody's writing down the gimbal >> angles and finding the 9 direction cosines. > >Why do you ever think anybody would want to do that ? >( unless employing army of small inteligent dwarf ) Because 9 direction cosines was the previous description in Wiki before I modified the article. You seemed perfectly willing to measure the angle--and then what? Then you need 3 cascaded matrices to take care of each of the 3 angles, the product giving you your 9 direction cosines the hard way! >Resolvers do that implicitly. You never knew how resolvers worked until I told you and even the Wiki discussion of resolvers is a jumble. They describe 1 winding on the rotor and 2 windings on the stator, without realizing that such cannot be cascaded in a chain to handle more than one angle. Why do you continue to struggle? You're out of your depth. John Polasek
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-08 07:14 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq4352$8rg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #359980 |
Dne 08/08/2015 v 04:25 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 00:26:52 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> It is all very nifty and it is apparent that almost no one on earth >>> understands resolvers. >> >> So you are one of the few manufacturers of the gimbal gyroscopes.... > I'm not acquainted with that term. Yo did not get the joke. If almost no one on Earth but you understands resolvers than almost no one on Earth but you can manufacture them. > I spent 20 years in the 50s and 60s analyzing inertial guidance > systems. Apparently the 1st time you ever heard of them was last week. Apparently wrong again. And, it is long time since than, so technology went long way.. No wonder why you are lost, frozen in 50s and 60s ( no offence ) It is typical for aging people, dwelling on things of their bets years. No offence intended, I will be probably the same. >>> This makes it quite apparent that nobody's writing down the gimbal >>> angles and finding the 9 direction cosines. >> >> Why do you ever think anybody would want to do that ? >> ( unless employing army of small inteligent dwarf ) > Because 9 direction cosines was the previous description in Wiki > before I modified the article. You did not get why they were mentined. > You seemed perfectly willing to measure the angle--and then what? Then Again, your misunderstanding. No reason for measuring angle. Resolvers measure the codines directly and implicitly. > you need 3 cascaded matrices to take care of each of the 3 angles, the > product giving you your 9 direction cosines the hard way! Finally you got it. >> Resolvers do that implicitly. > You never knew how resolvers worked until I told you and even the Wiki > discussion of resolvers is a jumble. You semm do not know how they work until now yet, as they measure the cosines. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-08 05:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nihg9c-uhp.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #359988 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: > Dne 08/08/2015 v 04:25 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 00:26:52 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >>>> It is all very nifty and it is apparent that almost no one on earth >>>> understands resolvers. >>> >>> So you are one of the few manufacturers of the gimbal gyroscopes.... > >> I'm not acquainted with that term. > > Yo did not get the joke. > If almost no one on Earth but you understands resolvers > than almost no one on Earth but you can manufacture them. > >> I spent 20 years in the 50s and 60s analyzing inertial guidance >> systems. Apparently the 1st time you ever heard of them was last week. > > Apparently wrong again. > And, it is long time since than, so technology went long way.. > No wonder why you are lost, frozen in 50s and 60s ( no offence ) > > It is typical for aging people, dwelling on things of their bets years. > No offence intended, I will be probably the same. And it is typical for jokers like you to fail to realize that basic physics hasn't changed no matter what the hardware implementation is what with your instant "education" of reading a few web sites and suddenly becoming an expert. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-08 13:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mq4vsf$bo5$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #360004 |
jimp wrote: >>> I spent 20 years in the 50s and 60s analyzing inertial guidance >>> systems. Apparently the 1st time you ever heard of them was last week. >> >> Apparently wrong again. >> And, it is long time since than, so technology went long way.. >> No wonder why you are lost, frozen in 50s and 60s ( no offence ) This paragraph reveals Poutink has no experience whatsoever in Science and Engineering, let alone The Modern Science. >> It is typical for aging people, dwelling on things of their bets years. >> No offence intended, I will be probably the same. > > And it is typical for jokers like you to fail to realize that basic > physics hasn't changed no matter what the hardware implementation is > what with your instant "education" of reading a few web sites and > suddenly becoming an expert. Agree.
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-08 10:16 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <fg3csahlogc3tbacse9h097sqd1a4l3d21@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #359988 |
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 07:14:43 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: >Dne 08/08/2015 v 04:25 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 00:26:52 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >>>> It is all very nifty and it is apparent that almost no one on earth >>>> understands resolvers. >>> >>> So you are one of the few manufacturers of the gimbal gyroscopes.... > >> I'm not acquainted with that term. > >Yo did not get the joke. >If almost no one on Earth but you understands resolvers >than almost no one on Earth but you can manufacture them. > >> I spent 20 years in the 50s and 60s analyzing inertial guidance >> systems. Apparently the 1st time you ever heard of them was last week. > >Apparently wrong again. >And, it is long time since than, so technology went long way.. >No wonder why you are lost, frozen in 50s and 60s ( no offence ) > >It is typical for aging people, dwelling on things of their bets years. >No offence intended, I will be probably the same. > >>>> This makes it quite apparent that nobody's writing down the gimbal >>>> angles and finding the 9 direction cosines. >>> >>> Why do you ever think anybody would want to do that ? >>> ( unless employing army of small inteligent dwarf ) > >> Because 9 direction cosines was the previous description in Wiki >> before I modified the article. > >You did not get why they were mentined. > >> You seemed perfectly willing to measure the angle--and then what? Then > >Again, your misunderstanding. >No reason for measuring angle. >Resolvers measure the codines directly and implicitly. > >> you need 3 cascaded matrices to take care of each of the 3 angles, the >> product giving you your 9 direction cosines the hard way! > >Finally you got it. > >>> Resolvers do that implicitly. >> You never knew how resolvers worked until I told you and even the Wiki >> discussion of resolvers is a jumble. > >You semm do not know how they work until now yet, >as they measure the cosines.
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-08 10:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <8t3csat86uuul2s2002quhp0a297gtkmd0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #359988 |
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 07:14:43 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: >Dne 08/08/2015 v 04:25 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 00:26:52 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >>>> It is all very nifty and it is apparent that almost no one on earth >>>> understands resolvers. >>> >>> So you are one of the few manufacturers of the gimbal gyroscopes.... > >> I'm not acquainted with that term. > >Yo did not get the joke. >If almost no one on Earth but you understands resolvers >than almost no one on Earth but you can manufacture them. > >> I spent 20 years in the 50s and 60s analyzing inertial guidance >> systems. Apparently the 1st time you ever heard of them was last week. > >Apparently wrong again. >And, it is long time since than, so technology went long way.. >No wonder why you are lost, frozen in 50s and 60s ( no offence ) > >It is typical for aging people, dwelling on things of their bets years. >No offence intended, I will be probably the same. > >>>> This makes it quite apparent that nobody's writing down the gimbal >>>> angles and finding the 9 direction cosines. >>> >>> Why do you ever think anybody would want to do that ? >>> ( unless employing army of small inteligent dwarf ) > >> Because 9 direction cosines was the previous description in Wiki >> before I modified the article. > >You did not get why they were mentined. > >> You seemed perfectly willing to measure the angle--and then what? Then > >Again, your misunderstanding. >No reason for measuring angle. >Resolvers measure the codines directly and implicitly. > >> you need 3 cascaded matrices to take care of each of the 3 angles, the >> product giving you your 9 direction cosines the hard way! > >Finally you got it. > >>> Resolvers do that implicitly. >> You never knew how resolvers worked until I told you and even the Wiki >> discussion of resolvers is a jumble. > >You semm do not know how they work until now yet, >as they measure the cosines. (Taki osel!) One more shot: signals are sent to the windings at 400 cps. The X coil gets the X signal component and the Y coil gets the Y signal component on the rotor. The stator also has an X and Y coil. which if the angle is 0 on the shaft, then X' and Y' equal X and Y. Clearly if the shaft is rotated by angle a, the transmitted opponents rearrange themselves exactly as if you had performed a 3 x 3 rotation matrix on the input. you get correct values of X' and Y'. You failed to see that the resolvers take all the work out of it and the required matrix transformations are taken care of by simply installing resolvers. Nobody gives a damn about the cosines. John Polasek
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 10:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq7402$au8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #360014 |
Dne 08/08/2015 v 16:34 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> >> You semm do not know how they work until now yet, >> as they measure the cosines. > (Taki osel!) > One more shot: signals are sent to the windings at 400 cps. The X coil > gets the X signal component and the Y coil gets the Y signal component > on the rotor. > The stator also has an X and Y coil. which if the angle is 0 on the > shaft, then X' and Y' equal X and Y. > Clearly if the shaft is rotated by angle a, the transmitted opponents > rearrange themselves exactly as if you had performed a 3 x 3 rotation > matrix on the input. you get correct values of X' and Y'. > You failed to see that the resolvers take all the work out of it and > the required matrix transformations are taken care of by simply > installing resolvers. Nobody gives a damn about the cosines. > John Polasek > You still do not get the way how the cosines are involved. They are involved where positions are determined by angles, and where Cartesian coordinates are not used, but cylindrical or spherical ones. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 17:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <93ek9c-t1o.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #360077 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: > Dne 08/08/2015 v 16:34 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >>> >>> You semm do not know how they work until now yet, >>> as they measure the cosines. > >> (Taki osel!) > > > >> One more shot: signals are sent to the windings at 400 cps. The X coil >> gets the X signal component and the Y coil gets the Y signal component >> on the rotor. >> The stator also has an X and Y coil. which if the angle is 0 on the >> shaft, then X' and Y' equal X and Y. >> Clearly if the shaft is rotated by angle a, the transmitted opponents >> rearrange themselves exactly as if you had performed a 3 x 3 rotation >> matrix on the input. you get correct values of X' and Y'. >> You failed to see that the resolvers take all the work out of it and >> the required matrix transformations are taken care of by simply >> installing resolvers. Nobody gives a damn about the cosines. >> John Polasek >> > You still do not get the way > how the cosines are involved. > > They are involved where positions are determined by angles, > and where Cartesian coordinates are not used, > but cylindrical or spherical ones. You appear clueless as to how inertial navigation systems work mathematically. The sensors, no matter what they are or how they are constructed or what technology is used to build them, provide an acceleration vector. Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. The acceleration vector is integrated into a velocity vector. Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. The velocity vector is integrated into a position change vector. Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. The position change vector is then added to the last known postion. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 17:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mq82d4$mp$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #360125 |
jimp wrote: > The velocity vector is integrated into a position change vector. You both are irrelevant and inexperienced. There are no velocity vectors present anywhere, but acceleration vectors only. > The position change vector is then added to the last known postion. Derived from the above. Guess how.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 17:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6sgk9c-t1o.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #360126 |
In sci.physics Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> wrote: > jimp wrote: > >> The velocity vector is integrated into a position change vector. > > You both are irrelevant and inexperienced. There are no velocity vectors > present anywhere, but acceleration vectors only. Did you miss the part where I said the acceleration vector is integrated into the velocity vector? >> The position change vector is then added to the last known postion. > > Derived from the above. Guess how. Depends on the design; doesn't change the mathematical theory. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 20:05 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq84le$ear$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #360126 |
Dne 09/08/2015 v 19:24 Emmerich Schultheiß napsal(a): > > You both are irrelevant and inexperienced. You can keep this mantra of Usenet Id chameleons for yourself. > and inexperienced. There are no velocity vectors > present anywhere, but acceleration vectors only. Coriolis force of vibrating structure gyroscopes depends on angular velocity. Yes, accelerometers do measure acceleration, but they are different devices, used for linear, not angular motion. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 18:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9mjk9c-apo.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #360129 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: > Dne 09/08/2015 v 19:24 Emmerich Schultheiß napsal(a): >> >> You both are irrelevant and inexperienced. > > You can keep this mantra of Usenet Id chameleons for yourself. > >> and inexperienced. There are no velocity vectors >> present anywhere, but acceleration vectors only. > > > Coriolis force of vibrating structure gyroscopes > depends on angular velocity. Ice cream has no bones. > Yes, accelerometers do measure acceleration, > but they are different devices, > used for linear, not angular motion. A gyroscope is a gyroscope is a gyroscope. What you can sense with a gyroscope depends on what sensors you put on it. What can be derived from sensor data depends on the processing done. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 19:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mq88es$g7o$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #360129 |
Poutnik wrote: > Dne 09/08/2015 v 19:24 Emmerich Schultheiß napsal(a): >> >> You both are irrelevant and inexperienced. > > You can keep this mantra of Usenet Id chameleons for yourself. Sorry, I didn't want to call you a cretin, a qualificative easily to be misunderstood. >> and inexperienced. There are no velocity vectors present anywhere, but >> acceleration vectors only. > > Coriolis force of vibrating structure gyroscopes depends on angular > velocity. Angular velocity is not a velocity in the spirit of the above discussion. Learn this, I say it one time. Any motion unpacks into two kind, rotation and translation. Rotation is not directly a motion, but a change of an angle. The velocity in this discussion here is about translation. > Yes, accelerometers do measure acceleration, > but they are different devices, used for linear, not angular motion. There is no angular motion. You don't get it. I was all too indulgent by saying that you are irrelevant and inexperienced.
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| From | Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 10:49 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq9ogf$i5h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #360136 |
On 08/09/2015 09:08 PM, Emmerich Schultheiß wrote: > Poutnik wrote: > > >>> and inexperienced. There are no velocity vectors present anywhere, but >>> acceleration vectors only. >> >> Coriolis force of vibrating structure gyroscopes depends on angular >> velocity. > > Angular velocity is not a velocity in the spirit of the above discussion. Angular velocity is not linear velocity and vice versa. above discussions was about gyroscopes, that are together with accelerators part of Inertial navigation systems. > > Learn this, I say it one time. Any motion unpacks into two kind, rotation Again, keep this mantra of Usenet Id chameleons fo yourself. > Any motion unpacks into two kind, rotation > and translation. Rotation is not directly a motion, but a change of an > angle. The velocity in this discussion here is about translation. Rotation is motion, but anguler, not linear one. Learn the basics of mechanics. > >> Yes, accelerometers do measure acceleration, >> but they are different devices, used for linear, not angular motion. > > There is no angular motion. You don't get it. I was all too indulgent by > saying that you are irrelevant and inexperienced. Larnt the basics of mechanics. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 19:53 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq8403$bkg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #360125 |
Dne 09/08/2015 v 19:09 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com napsal(a): > > You appear clueless as to how inertial navigation systems work > mathematically. Wrong observation, as pointed below. > > The sensors, no matter what they are or how they are constructed or > what technology is used to build them, provide an acceleration vector. > > Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. > > The acceleration vector is integrated into a velocity vector. > > Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. > > The velocity vector is integrated into a position change vector. > > Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. > > The position change vector is then added to the last known postion. > Exactly. But what you have missed is, this applies to accelerometers, not gyroscopes we were talking about. Vibration structure gyroscopes alias Coriolis gyroscopes, either macro size or MEMS size, detects angular speed, not angular acceleration via Coriolis force acting on vibrating structures, when they rotate. Good inertial navigation systems have both accelerometers and gyroscopes. 3 accelerometres for 3D linear acceleration 3 gyroscopes for 3D angular speed and optionally also 3 Hall sensors for magnetic field orientation. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 18:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6rjk9c-apo.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #360127 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: > Dne 09/08/2015 v 19:09 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com napsal(a): > >> >> You appear clueless as to how inertial navigation systems work >> mathematically. > > Wrong observation, as pointed below. >> >> The sensors, no matter what they are or how they are constructed or >> what technology is used to build them, provide an acceleration vector. >> >> Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. >> >> The acceleration vector is integrated into a velocity vector. >> >> Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. >> >> The velocity vector is integrated into a position change vector. >> >> Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. >> >> The position change vector is then added to the last known postion. >> > > Exactly. > > But what you have missed is, > this applies to accelerometers, > not gyroscopes we were talking about. What you have missed is that a gyroscope is a gyroscope. What one can sense with a gyroscope depends on what sensors have been put on the gyroscope. What information can be derived from a sensor depends on how the sensor data is processed. <snip babble> -- Jim Pennino
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