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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #400212 > unrolled thread

Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh

Started by"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
First post2016-11-30 06:18 +1100
Last post2016-12-21 16:35 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 348 — 27 participants

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Contents

  Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-11-30 06:18 +1100
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-29 11:22 -0800
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 13:25 -0800
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-29 13:39 -0800
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-05 11:28 -0800
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 11:45 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-05 12:06 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 13:23 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-05 23:28 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-06 10:04 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 11:48 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-06 13:28 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-06 15:52 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 16:13 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-10 11:00 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-10 21:42 +1100
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-10 04:12 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-10 06:46 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 00:25 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-12 02:12 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-10 09:17 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 16:56 -0600
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-13 06:47 +1100
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 14:19 -0600
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-12-12 20:36 +0000
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-12 01:57 +0000
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-13 06:53 +1100
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-12 22:42 +0000
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Lauretta Nagle <uattea@aeuatte.au> - 2016-12-16 19:28 +0000
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-16 21:38 +0000
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Lauretta Nagle <uattea@aeuatte.au> - 2016-12-16 22:02 +0000
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-17 16:08 +0000
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Lauretta Nagle <uattea@aeuatte.au> - 2016-12-17 17:47 +0000
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-05 23:26 -0800
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-01 03:03 +1100
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-30 08:06 -0800
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-01 08:46 +1100
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 17:05 +0100
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 08:14 -0800
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 18:05 +0100
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 09:23 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 18:59 +0100
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 10:07 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-13 10:26 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 20:22 +0100
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 13:22 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 13:39 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 15:50 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 17:28 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 20:16 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 21:09 -0800
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 22:20 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 22:31 -0800
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 22:39 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 22:40 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 23:48 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 00:56 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-14 06:29 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 21:43 -0800
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 22:36 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 22:39 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 22:41 -0800
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 23:01 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 23:06 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 23:14 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 23:18 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 23:16 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 23:41 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-14 06:27 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 01:00 -0800
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 04:25 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 04:41 -0800
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 04:43 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 04:55 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 07:26 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-15 07:30 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 04:46 -0800
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 07:25 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 20:32 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 21:11 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 13:42 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 23:04 +0100
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 14:14 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 23:48 +0100
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 15:26 -0800
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 10:25 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 10:34 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 10:55 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 20:32 +0100
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-13 22:15 +0100
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 13:48 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-13 23:04 +0100
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 14:21 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odilia Blatt <Bditttaliol@Bditttali.l.org> - 2016-12-13 23:49 +0000
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 20:32 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 21:14 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odilia Blatt <ttaliol@itrh3gdit.org> - 2016-12-14 17:54 +0000
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-14 10:52 +0100
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 02:08 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-14 06:31 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odilia Blatt <ttaliol@itrh3gdit.org> - 2016-12-14 17:52 +0000
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-15 06:42 +1100
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 20:58 +0100
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-14 11:37 -0600
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-14 09:59 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 20:10 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-14 20:23 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 01:27 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 04:28 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-15 09:14 -0600
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 07:41 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-15 10:46 -0600
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 08:55 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 14:21 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 15:11 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 16:09 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 16:21 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 18:18 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 23:19 -0800
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-16 03:18 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:21 -0600
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-17 08:31 -0800
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-17 20:09 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 21:17 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-17 21:32 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-18 10:00 -0600
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-18 08:43 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-18 12:56 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-18 21:35 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-18 21:30 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-18 23:14 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-18 23:20 -0800
                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 05:45 -0800
                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 06:30 -0800
                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 07:10 -0800
                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 08:09 -0800
                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 08:15 -0800
                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 08:24 -0800
                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 08:28 -0800
                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 08:32 -0800
                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 08:56 -0800
                                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 09:12 -0800
                                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 09:29 -0800
                                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 09:33 -0800
                                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 12:21 -0800
                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-19 12:27 -0800
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-19 14:21 -0800
                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-20 10:42 -0800
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-20 16:39 -0800
                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 12:35 -0800
                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 12:40 -0800
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 13:28 -0800
                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 15:18 -0800
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 17:34 -0800
                                                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-19 18:04 -0800
                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-20 10:16 -0600
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 08:37 -0800
                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-20 09:04 -0800
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-21 08:21 +1100
                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-21 10:17 +0100
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-21 01:29 -0800
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-22 08:18 +1100
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-18 21:33 -0800
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-16 03:25 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 05:32 -0800
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-16 07:10 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 11:38 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-16 12:01 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 12:13 -0800
                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-16 21:39 -0800
                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 01:00 -0800
                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 05:56 -0800
                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-17 20:06 -0800
                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 20:53 -0800
                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-17 21:30 -0800
                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 21:42 -0800
                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-20 09:18 -0800
                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 10:31 -0800
                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-20 11:13 -0800
                                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 11:58 -0800
                                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-20 13:25 -0800
                                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 14:47 -0800
                                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-20 17:50 -0800
                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 22:05 -0800
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 22:59 -0800
                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 23:13 -0800
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 23:34 -0800
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-21 05:58 -0800
                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 06:58 -0800
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-21 07:40 -0800
                                                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 10:40 -0800
                                                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-21 10:48 -0800
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-21 09:13 -0800
                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 15:25 -0800
                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-21 16:57 -0800
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 18:47 -0800
                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 18:58 -0800
                                                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-21 20:13 -0800
                                                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 20:32 -0800
                                                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-21 20:36 -0800
                                                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 01:55 -0800
                                                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 02:24 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 02:55 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 06:32 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 06:30 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 12:20 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 13:13 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 13:29 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 13:41 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 13:45 -0800
                                                                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 14:01 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 14:07 -0800
                                                                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 14:26 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 16:25 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 01:16 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-23 07:28 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-22 13:14 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-22 13:37 -0800
                                                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-22 00:11 -0800
                                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-20 13:49 -0800
                                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 14:58 -0800
                                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-20 17:51 -0800
                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 21:27 -0800
                                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-17 21:37 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 11:59 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 09:52 -0600
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-17 20:03 -0800
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 12:46 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-14 14:00 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 14:22 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-14 17:29 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-05 15:37 +0100
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-07 11:35 +1100
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-06 18:11 -0800
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-07 19:58 +1100
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-07 14:45 +0000
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-07 06:58 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Chantell Dillingham <intlii@dtilnignii.org> - 2016-12-07 15:30 +0000
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-07 07:50 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-07 07:59 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 14:47 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-09 09:21 +1100
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 16:18 -0800
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 18:20 -0800
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-07 20:00 +1100
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-07 10:39 +0100
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 07:42 -0600
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-10 00:31 +0100
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Estrella Batey <yeaetl@sryeaet.org> - 2016-12-09 23:42 +0000
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-10 21:01 +1100
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 14:43 -0600
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 22:31 -0600
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-14 05:13 +1100
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Zaida Orvis <iOsddiosaa@iOsddi.saa.iOs> - 2016-12-13 20:06 +0000
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-13 22:20 +0100
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-14 12:12 -0600
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odilia Blatt <ttaliol@itrh3gdit.org> - 2016-12-14 18:29 +0000
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-15 06:20 +1100
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-07 05:18 -0800
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-08 08:05 +1100
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-08 09:51 +0100
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-09 09:25 +1100
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-09 14:03 +0100
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-10 20:59 +1100
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-10 12:44 +0100
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-10 08:57 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-11 10:00 +0100
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-11 05:50 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-11 23:32 +0100
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-12 04:51 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-12 15:15 +0100
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-12 08:29 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-13 21:00 +0100
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Zaida Orvis <iOsddiosaa@iOsddi.saa.iOs> - 2016-12-13 20:08 +0000
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-14 07:19 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-14 20:24 +0100
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-14 12:38 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-15 15:51 +0100
                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-15 10:25 -0800
                                            Cretin Jay Mosley perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 10:33 -0800
                                              Cretin Jay Mosley perseveres jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-15 10:47 -0800
                                                Re: Cretin Jay Mosley perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 10:52 -0800
                                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-16 08:56 +1100
                                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-16 13:47 +0100
                                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-17 09:13 +1100
                                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Lauretta Nagle <uattea@aeuatte.au> - 2016-12-16 23:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-17 11:59 +1100
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odilia Blatt <ttaliol@itrh3gdit.org> - 2016-12-14 18:07 +0000
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-11 20:23 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-12 05:21 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-12 07:24 -0800
                              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-12 08:34 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-12 09:09 -0800
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-12 12:04 -0800
                                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-12 14:05 -0800
                                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-13 00:33 -0800
                                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-13 07:02 -0800
                                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 22:24 -0600
                                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-13 01:33 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-11 15:59 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-12-12 08:07 +1100
          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-09 08:56 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-09 09:44 -0800
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-09 10:33 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-09 11:15 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-09 11:28 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-09 11:32 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-10 12:03 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-10 13:26 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-10 14:54 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-12-10 19:22 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-11 16:01 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-10 16:25 -0800
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-11 00:35 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-14 17:44 -0600
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-15 01:09 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 11:35 -0600
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 09:54 -0800
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-16 08:17 +1100
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-15 16:23 -0800
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-16 19:21 +1100
                          Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-16 03:42 -0800
                            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-17 18:45 +1100
                    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-12-18 10:05 -0600
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-19 08:49 +1100
                        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-18 16:17 -0800
                      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-18 22:48 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-15 03:19 -0800
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-15 11:16 -0800
                    Cretin Jay Mosley perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-15 11:21 -0800
            Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-09 18:52 +0100
              Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-09 10:17 -0800
                Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-12-10 09:45 +0100
                  Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-12-10 02:07 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-19 10:42 -0800
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-19 12:13 -0800
        Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-12-19 22:17 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-19 10:42 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-19 12:41 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-19 14:40 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-20 16:02 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-21 11:06 -0800
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh HGW <hw@....> - 2016-12-23 08:24 +1100
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh furthermore12345@gmail.com - 2016-12-21 15:26 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh furthermore12345@gmail.com - 2016-12-21 15:47 -0800
      Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh Darleen Sloop <aolenD@nedfdealln.org> - 2016-12-21 23:52 +0000
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-21 16:23 -0800
    Re: Why the Sagnac Effect destroys Einstein and supports BaTh numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-12-21 16:35 -0800

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#401061

FromJanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-07 14:47 -0800
Message-ID<f496ec98-57d5-4217-8fe3-ba6a18c6ddc5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400993
On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 12:58:17 AM UTC-8, HGW wrote:
> On 07/12/16 13:11, Dono, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 4:35:37 PM UTC-8, HGW wrote:
> >>
> >> How does Einstein's light decide whether to move at c or c+v
> >> relative to its source?
> >
> > It doesn't "decide", cretin. There is no "decision" to be made.
> > Decision implies choice. Light ALWAYS moves at "c" wrt the source.
> > You were born a cretin, you are a cretin, your only consolation is
> > that you will die a cretin.
> 
> Poor fool! Einstein's explanation of the Sagnac Effect is based on the 
> idea that light from the source splits into two beams at the 45 mirror 
> and one half leaves that mirror at c+v and the other at c-v.

No, that's incorrect. With respect to the lab the light moves at c,
with respect to the rotating platform signal source/receiver the
speed of light is not c and its exact value at specific point
_as measured by that source at a distance_ depends on the choice of
coordinates (i.e., it's a number which is man-made in that sense).

On the rotating platform there are no "obvious" coordinates, one
is simply the inertial ("lab") _rotating_, the other is the momentarily
co-moving inertial integrated over the platform. Both are artificial in
the sense that they do not correspond to the "natural" notion of
simultaneity at a distance (aka. "slow clock transport") experienced by
the signal source (and _that_ natural notion of simultaneity _cannot_ be 
extended unambiguously over the entire length of the signal path).

In the "lab rotating" coordinates the light is measured at c+v and
c-v, in the momentarily co-moving inertial the light speed varies
continuously along the track, I forget the exact formula, we went
through all this in full detail in the late 1990s here.

The actual SR model for all this is that light always moves at speed c
locally but the line of simultaneity does not form a closed loop
along the signal trajectory, thus creating an inherent time discrepancy.
In SR this discrepancy _is_ the Sagnac effect.

--
Jan

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#401132

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-12-09 09:21 +1100
Message-ID<o2cme5$hh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401061
On 08/12/16 09:47, JanPB wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 12:58:17 AM UTC-8, HGW wrote:

>> Poor fool! Einstein's explanation of the Sagnac Effect is based on the
>> idea that light from the source splits into two beams at the 45 mirror
>> and one half leaves that mirror at c+v and the other at c-v.
>
> No, that's incorrect. With respect to the lab the light moves at c,
> with respect to the rotating platform signal source/receiver the
> speed of light is not c and its exact value at specific point
> _as measured by that source at a distance_ depends on the choice of
> coordinates (i.e., it's a number which is man-made in that sense).
>
> On the rotating platform there are no "obvious" coordinates, one
> is simply the inertial ("lab") _rotating_, the other is the momentarily
> co-moving inertial integrated over the platform. Both are artificial in
> the sense that they do not correspond to the "natural" notion of
> simultaneity at a distance (aka. "slow clock transport") experienced by
> the signal source (and _that_ natural notion of simultaneity _cannot_ be
> extended unambiguously over the entire length of the signal path).
>
> In the "lab rotating" coordinates the light is measured at c+v and
> c-v, in the momentarily co-moving inertial the light speed varies
> continuously along the track, I forget the exact formula, we went
> through all this in full detail in the late 1990s here.
>
> The actual SR model for all this is that light always moves at speed c
> locally but the line of simultaneity does not form a closed loop
> along the signal trajectory, thus creating an inherent time discrepancy.
> In SR this discrepancy _is_ the Sagnac effect.

What  a load of crap...terrible crap!!!

When the beams leave the source, they don't know they are going around 
in a  circle. The source is effectively inertial. They both move at c 
relative to the source in opposite directions.

The Einsteinian explanation of Sagnac regards light as a simple 
oscillator that moves at different speeds from the source.
BaTh has a very simple explanation. Light moves at c relative to the 
source and the path lengths are different. Since wavelength is absolute 
and frame independent, the phases at the receiver vary with path length. 
BaTh produces the correct equation for fringe displacement as does 
Einstein's aether theory, 4aw/Lc.  http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html

> Jan
>


-- 

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#401142

FromJanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-08 16:18 -0800
Message-ID<a077fc8b-cbef-4d5d-a791-bbdbb036fcae@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#401132
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 2:22:06 PM UTC-8, HGW wrote:
> On 08/12/16 09:47, JanPB wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 12:58:17 AM UTC-8, HGW wrote:
> 
> >> Poor fool! Einstein's explanation of the Sagnac Effect is based on the
> >> idea that light from the source splits into two beams at the 45 mirror
> >> and one half leaves that mirror at c+v and the other at c-v.
> >
> > No, that's incorrect. With respect to the lab the light moves at c,
> > with respect to the rotating platform signal source/receiver the
> > speed of light is not c and its exact value at specific point
> > _as measured by that source at a distance_ depends on the choice of
> > coordinates (i.e., it's a number which is man-made in that sense).
> >
> > On the rotating platform there are no "obvious" coordinates, one
> > is simply the inertial ("lab") _rotating_, the other is the momentarily
> > co-moving inertial integrated over the platform. Both are artificial in
> > the sense that they do not correspond to the "natural" notion of
> > simultaneity at a distance (aka. "slow clock transport") experienced by
> > the signal source (and _that_ natural notion of simultaneity _cannot_ be
> > extended unambiguously over the entire length of the signal path).
> >
> > In the "lab rotating" coordinates the light is measured at c+v and
> > c-v, in the momentarily co-moving inertial the light speed varies
> > continuously along the track, I forget the exact formula, we went
> > through all this in full detail in the late 1990s here.
> >
> > The actual SR model for all this is that light always moves at speed c
> > locally but the line of simultaneity does not form a closed loop
> > along the signal trajectory, thus creating an inherent time discrepancy.
> > In SR this discrepancy _is_ the Sagnac effect.
> 
> What  a load of crap...terrible crap!!!

This is how SR models this. If you say it's "crap", it means you don't
know how SR models this.

> When the beams leave the source, they don't know they are going around 
> in a  circle.

Agreed (although you could have said it more precisely).

> The source is effectively inertial.

Well, here you have to be precise again. By that token, everything in the
universe is at rest (do consult Zenon). Perhaps you are right, it's impossible
to say without the details of what you mean.

> They both move at c 
> relative to the source in opposite directions.

They move at c locally (i.e. past each signal path point). How fast they
move with respect to the platform observer depends on how you set up your
speed-measurement procedure:

1. If you use the most obvious way to synchronise events along the path,
you'll discover that:

(a) the speed of light is c constantly,
(b) but the time coordinate does not match after completing one
circuit (no matter how slow your synchronising clock has been moving),

2. if you use the momentarily co-moving inertial coordinates, the speed
of light you measure varies smoothly back and forth (I forget the exact 
formula),

3. if you use the lab coordinates set rotating, the sppeds are c-v and c+v.

> The Einsteinian explanation of Sagnac regards light as a simple 
> oscillator that moves at different speeds from the source.
> BaTh has a very simple explanation.

Does it match the results from QFD? Can you derive massive weak bosons
from BaTh? You have no theory unless you can do at least as good as
existing theories.

--
Jan

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#400987

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2016-12-06 18:20 -0800
Message-ID<5538cba8-bbab-431d-a8d0-25550e7f02eb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400982
HGW wrote:

I have read them...and I'm still laughing...How does Einstein's light decide whether to move at c or c+v relative to its source? 

Bulk Elastic Modulus & Wave speed 

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#400994

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-12-07 20:00 +1100
Message-ID<o28j2h$16fg$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#400987
On 07/12/16 13:20, David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller wrote:
> HGW wrote:
>
> I have read them...and I'm still laughing...How does Einstein's light
> decide whether to move at c or c+v relative to its source?
>
> Bulk Elastic Modulus & Wave speed

...light needs no medium. It carries is own...and joins up with others.




-- 

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#400996

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-12-07 10:39 +0100
Message-ID<o28ld5$bmc$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#400982
On 07.12.2016 01:35, HGW wrote:
> On 06/12/16 01:37, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> On 29.11.2016 20:18, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>>> Read all about it here. http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html
>>
>> And when you are through laughing, you can read these:
>> https://paulba.no/pdf/sagnac_ring.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/pdf/four_mirror_sagnac.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/FourMirrorSagnac.html
>
> I have read them...and I'm still laughing...How does Einstein's light
> decide whether to move at c or c+v relative to its source?
> Can it read the future and know instantly if it is going straight ahead
> or around a circle?...and if you want to try criticizing BaTh, you
> should learn what it is all about first and not make up some silly
> theory of your own.
>

SR predicts that the phase difference is Δφ=8πAω/λc.
Emission/ballistic theory predicts  Δφ=0.
Which of the predictions is in accordance with experimental evidence?


-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#401178

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-09 07:42 -0600
Message-ID<o2ecd1$9ho$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#400982
On 12/6/2016 6:35 PM, HGW wrote:
> On 06/12/16 01:37, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> On 29.11.2016 20:18, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>>> Read all about it here. http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html
>>
>> And when you are through laughing, you can read these:
>> https://paulba.no/pdf/sagnac_ring.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/pdf/four_mirror_sagnac.pdf
>> https://paulba.no/FourMirrorSagnac.html
>
> I have read them...and I'm still laughing...How does Einstein's light
> decide whether to move at c or c+v relative to its source?

It always moves at c relative to the source.
It always moves at c relative to the observer.
The mistake you make is thinking that if the observer is moving relative 
to the source at speed v, and the light is moving at c relative to the 
observer, then it MUST be moving at c-v or c+v relative to the source. 
That is incorrect.
The value of c-v or c+v is a *closing* speed between the source at the 
light in the observer's frame. It is NOT a relative speed between the 
light and the source. Speed relative to the source must be measured in a 
frame in which the source is at rest, and the observer's frame doesn't 
satisfy that.

You have the same confusion between closing speed and relative speed 
that Seto has, and as you know, Seto knows nothing about relativity. 
Neither do you, apparently.

> Can it read the future and know instantly if it is going straight ahead
> or around a circle?...and if you want to try criticizing BaTh, you
> should learn what it is all about first and not make up some silly
> theory of your own.
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#401228

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2016-12-10 00:31 +0100
Message-ID<740668201.0ifERbkFSE@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#401178
Odd Bodkin wrote:

> […] Speed relative to the source must be measured in a
> frame in which the source is at rest, […]

I beg your pardon?

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#401231

FromEstrella Batey <yeaetl@sryeaet.org>
Date2016-12-09 23:42 +0000
Message-ID<o2ffgo$49m$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401228
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
>> […] Speed relative to the source must be measured in a frame in which
>> the source is at rest, […]
> 
> I beg your pardon?

You just gave the proof that you are not even a half-engineer. You must be 
a half of something else.

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#401270

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-12-10 21:01 +1100
Message-ID<o2gjq1$1ckt$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401178
On 10/12/16 00:42, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 12/6/2016 6:35 PM, HGW wrote:
>> On 06/12/16 01:37, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>> On 29.11.2016 20:18, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>>>> Read all about it here. http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html
>>>
>>> And when you are through laughing, you can read these:
>>> https://paulba.no/pdf/sagnac_ring.pdf
>>> https://paulba.no/pdf/four_mirror_sagnac.pdf
>>> https://paulba.no/FourMirrorSagnac.html
>>
>> I have read them...and I'm still laughing...How does Einstein's light
>> decide whether to move at c or c+v relative to its source?
>
> It always moves at c relative to the source.
> It always moves at c relative to the observer.
> The mistake you make is thinking that if the observer is moving relative
> to the source at speed v, and the light is moving at c relative to the
> observer, then it MUST be moving at c-v or c+v relative to the source.
> That is incorrect.
> The value of c-v or c+v is a *closing* speed between the source at the
> light in the observer's frame. It is NOT a relative speed between the
> light and the source. Speed relative to the source must be measured in a
> frame in which the source is at rest, and the observer's frame doesn't
> satisfy that.

Bodkin, you have  been reading too much LET...and you insist there is no 
aether...so why do you keep referring to it?

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#401534

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-12 14:43 -0600
Message-ID<o2n24o$13gk$8@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401270
On 12/10/2016 4:01 AM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> On 10/12/16 00:42, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 12/6/2016 6:35 PM, HGW wrote:
>>> On 06/12/16 01:37, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>>> On 29.11.2016 20:18, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>>>>> Read all about it here. http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html
>>>>
>>>> And when you are through laughing, you can read these:
>>>> https://paulba.no/pdf/sagnac_ring.pdf
>>>> https://paulba.no/pdf/four_mirror_sagnac.pdf
>>>> https://paulba.no/FourMirrorSagnac.html
>>>
>>> I have read them...and I'm still laughing...How does Einstein's light
>>> decide whether to move at c or c+v relative to its source?
>>
>> It always moves at c relative to the source.
>> It always moves at c relative to the observer.
>> The mistake you make is thinking that if the observer is moving relative
>> to the source at speed v, and the light is moving at c relative to the
>> observer, then it MUST be moving at c-v or c+v relative to the source.
>> That is incorrect.
>> The value of c-v or c+v is a *closing* speed between the source at the
>> light in the observer's frame. It is NOT a relative speed between the
>> light and the source. Speed relative to the source must be measured in a
>> frame in which the source is at rest, and the observer's frame doesn't
>> satisfy that.
>
> Bodkin, you have  been reading too much LET...and you insist there is no
> aether...so why do you keep referring to it?
>
>

LET does not say any of things said above.

But I appreciate you trying to create a diversion by throwing sparkly 
things in the air before turning and running. Very pretty.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#401581

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-12-12 22:31 -0600
Message-ID<YYWdnXq3g7YR5NLFnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#401178
On 12/9/16 12/9/16   7:42 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> [light] always moves at c relative to the source.
> [light] always moves at c relative to the observer.

Only when source/observer are at rest in an inertial frame -- the reference is 
really the inertial frame, and not the source/observer -- it is impossible to 
measure speed relative to a pointlike object like a source or observer, it 
ALWAYS requires a coordinate system.

> [... more, on which I have no comment]

Tom Roberts

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#401638

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-12-14 05:13 +1100
Message-ID<o2pdof$uba$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401581
On 13/12/16 15:31, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 12/9/16 12/9/16   7:42 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> [light] always moves at c relative to the source.
>> [light] always moves at c relative to the observer.
>
> Only when source/observer are at rest in an inertial frame -- the
> reference is really the inertial frame, and not the source/observer --
> it is impossible to measure speed relative to a pointlike object like a
> source or observer, it ALWAYS requires a coordinate system.

Crap! Terrible CRAP! OWLS can always be measured under any circumstance, 
using two clocks that are synched together then moved apart. Their 
synchronization can be checked at any time by sending light signals 
between them USING SOURCES AT REST WITH THE CLOCKS.

>> [... more, on which I have no comment]
>
> Tom Roberts
>

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#401660

FromZaida Orvis <iOsddiosaa@iOsddi.saa.iOs>
Date2016-12-13 20:06 +0000
Message-ID<o2pkc6$19r9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401638
HGWilson, DSc. wrote:

>> Only when source/observer are at rest in an inertial frame -- the
>> reference is really the inertial frame, and not the source/observer --
>> it is impossible to measure speed relative to a pointlike object like a
>> source or observer, it ALWAYS requires a coordinate system.
> 
> Crap! Terrible CRAP! OWLS can always be measured under any circumstance,

No is not, and you cant do that. Since would DEMAND a speed much higher 
than the speed of light. Once you admit that speed is limited, you HAVE to 
have a speed much larger than that, making you able to establish a certain 
value for the former one.

> using two clocks that are synched together then moved apart. Their
> synchronization can be checked at any time by sending light signals
> between them USING SOURCES AT REST WITH THE CLOCKS.

Once you moved one of them a micrometer apart, they are not in synch 
anymore. What you need is to make use of my Divergent Matter theory. But 
its hard to accomplish a proper setup. (but not impossible)

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#401667

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-12-13 22:20 +0100
Message-ID<o2pone$b7h$2@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#401660
On 13.12.2016 21:06, Zaida Orvis wrote:
 > []

It doesn't help to change your name,
the trolling idiot is recognized anyway.

One can but wonder what kind of mental disturbance make
a person constantly change his name and write nonsense only.

plonk

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#401815

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-12-14 12:12 -0600
Message-ID<3fudnYqLGvUQFszFnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#401638
On 12/13/16 12/13/16 - 12:13 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> On 13/12/16 15:31, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 12/9/16 12/9/16   7:42 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> [light] always moves at c relative to the source. [light] always moves at
>>> c relative to the observer.
>>
>> Only when source/observer are at rest in an inertial frame -- the reference
>> is really the inertial frame, and not the source/observer -- it is
>> impossible to measure speed relative to a pointlike object like a source or
>> observer, it ALWAYS requires a coordinate system.
>
> Crap! Terrible CRAP! OWLS can always be measured under any circumstance,
> using two clocks that are synched together then moved apart. [...]

You say "Crap! Terrible CRAP!" and then agree with me -- you describe how to
CONSTRUCT COORDINATES relative to which OWLS can be measured (you omitted
measuring the distance between the two clocks). Note in particular that your
measurement of OWLS is NOT relative to some pointlike object, it uses TWO
CLOCKS, and is clearly relative to the inertial frame in which they are at rest.

	If they are not at rest in some inertial frame, then the
	result of their OWLS measurement will in general vary, and
	none of their measurements need be equal to c (in vacuum)....

You also did not address the error introduced by moving the clocks....



Elsewhere you said:
> How does Einstein's light decide whether to move at c or c+v relative to its
> source? Can it read the future and know instantly if it is going straight
> ahead or around a circle?

This is just proof that you do not understand relativity, and instead insist on 
indulging in your personal fantasies. (Fantasies which are self-inconsistent and 
do not agree with reality, but you carefully keep yourself too ignorant to 
recognize that.)

When emitted by a source into vacuum, light ALWAYS moves with speed c relative 
to the inertial frame that is instantaneously co-moving with the source at the 
instant of emission. This makes it clear that no subsequent motion (or change of 
motion) of the source can affect the light that has been emitted.

	Why such inertial frames are important is a fascinating subject.
	To understand it, you'll have to learn basic differential geometry
	and how it relates to modern physics.

Tom Roberts

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#401818

FromOdilia Blatt <ttaliol@itrh3gdit.org>
Date2016-12-14 18:29 +0000
Message-ID<o2s31g$14n2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401815
Tom Roberts wrote:

> When emitted by a source into vacuum, light ALWAYS moves with speed c
> relative to the inertial frame that is instantaneously co-moving with
> the source at the instant of emission. This makes it clear that no
> subsequent motion (or change of motion) of the source can affect the
> light that has been emitted.

You go too far here. That's not a proof for a certain bounded speed of 
light, but merely a restricted functionality of the detector and the used 
instruments. Those are CALIBRATED and aimed to work UNDER, and with the 
Speed of Light as the UPPER limit.

Hopefully somebody just learned something today.

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#401823

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-12-15 06:20 +1100
Message-ID<o2s62l$1atr$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401815
On 15/12/16 05:12, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 12/13/16 12/13/16 - 12:13 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:

>>>> [light] always moves at c relative to the source. [light] always
>>>> moves at
>>>> c relative to the observer.
>>>
>>> Only when source/observer are at rest in an inertial frame -- the
>>> reference
>>> is really the inertial frame, and not the source/observer -- it is
>>> impossible to measure speed relative to a pointlike object like a
>>> source or
>>> observer, it ALWAYS requires a coordinate system.
>>
>> Crap! Terrible CRAP! OWLS can always be measured under any circumstance,
>> using two clocks that are synched together then moved apart. [...]
>
> You say "Crap! Terrible CRAP!" and then agree with me -- you describe
> how to
> CONSTRUCT COORDINATES relative to which OWLS can be measured (you omitted
> measuring the distance between the two clocks).

One certainly does not 'measure' that distance with light.
One will calibrate the 'rod' that separates the clocks by comparing it 
with a predetermined standard ROD...and light can be used in that 
process...but the source must be at rest with the two.

In general, lengths can only be defined by objects and it is true that 
according to BaTh, the wavelength of light does define an absolute 
distance. Therefore calibrating rods by counting wavelengths is a 
legitimate method...but using light speed is not...for the simple reason 
that it is not necessarily constant.

Note in particular that
> your
> measurement of OWLS is NOT relative to some pointlike object, it uses TWO
> CLOCKS, and is clearly relative to the inertial frame in which they are
> at rest.
>
>     If they are not at rest in some inertial frame, then the
>     result of their OWLS measurement will in general vary, and
>     none of their measurements need be equal to c (in vacuum)....

Correct!!! You have finally gotten it! The OW speed of light is not 
always c. Light speed is source dependent and Einstein's second 
postulate is invalid! Congratulations Tom!

> You also did not address the error introduced by moving the clocks....

What error? Good clocks are not affected by movement and nor is the 
rigid rod that holds them apart. Their synchronization can always be 
checked at any time with light signals from a central source, anyway.

> Elsewhere you said:
>> How does Einstein's light decide whether to move at c or c+v relative
>> to its
>> source? Can it read the future and know instantly if it is going straight
>> ahead or around a circle?
>
> This is just proof that you do not understand relativity, and instead
> insist on indulging in your personal fantasies. (Fantasies which are
> self-inconsistent and do not agree with reality, but you carefully keep
> yourself too ignorant to recognize that.)

Tom, not only do I fully understand relativity, I also understand why 
Einstein's version is pure nonsense from start to finish...because it is 
based on a fallacy. I'm surprised that a man or your ability has not 
been able to do the same.

> When emitted by a source into vacuum, light ALWAYS moves with speed c
> relative to the inertial frame that is instantaneously co-moving with
> the source at the instant of emission. This makes it clear that no
> subsequent motion (or change of motion) of the source can affect the
> light that has been emitted.

Let's just say, "light initially moves at c relative to it source".
Do you know why that happens? Of course you don't! ...but BaTh has a 
good explanation.

>     Why such inertial frames are important is a fascinating subject.
>     To understand it, you'll have to learn basic differential geometry
>     and how it relates to modern physics.

Their importance is not specifically limited to Einstein's silly theory 
or modern physics in general. Even Galileo knew all about it.

> Tom Roberts
>

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#401002

Fromjaymoseley@hotmail.com
Date2016-12-07 05:18 -0800
Message-ID<431d2595-538f-4046-9477-5835d1325094@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400849
Paul B Anderson wrote...
>>On 29.11.2016 20:18, HGWilson, DSc. wrote: 
>> Read all about it here. http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html 

>And when you are through laughing, you can read these: 
>https://paulba.no/pdf/sagnac_ring.pdf 

This is incorrect. You have light at c+v or c-v in the lab frame
for a classical explanation. It should be c is variable in the lab
frame for classical.
In case you don't understand why, here's a simple explanation.

You are on a rotating carousel platform in a lab.You throw a
ball from the carousel. It travels at speed v in the lab. Notice
that the ball cannot therefore be travelling at a constant speed 
relative to *you*. Because you are rotating in the lab, as the ball
is travelling at a constant speed in the lab. 
And as we know from many experiments like MMX. Light 
always travels at c relative to its source.  In a classical model. 
Whether or not the source is rotating.

Therefore your assumption in your above PDF link is erroneous 
as you assume that in a classical model light can travel at variable
speeds relative to its source. Classical never claims this nor is this
assumption you make backed up by observation.
If you redo your calculations in your paper correctly, with light
travelling at a constant speed relative to the rotating source in Sagnac.
You will find a classical model WILL give a fringe shift. As this short 
simulation below shows.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8wlbXFaMo

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#401054

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-12-08 08:05 +1100
Message-ID<o29tir$1ljo$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#401002
On 08/12/16 00:18, jaymoseley@hotmail.com wrote:
> Paul B Anderson wrote...
>>> On 29.11.2016 20:18, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>>> Read all about it here. http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html
>
>> And when you are through laughing, you can read these:
>> https://paulba.no/pdf/sagnac_ring.pdf
>
> This is incorrect. You have light at c+v or c-v in the lab frame
> for a classical explanation. It should be c is variable in the lab
> frame for classical.

> Therefore your assumption in your above PDF link is erroneous
> as you assume that in a classical model light can travel at variable
> speeds relative to its source. Classical never claims this nor is this
> assumption you make backed up by observation.
> If you redo your calculations in your paper correctly, with light
> travelling at a constant speed relative to the rotating source in Sagnac.
> You will find a classical model WILL give a fringe shift. As this short
> simulation below shows.
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8wlbXFaMo

This is nonsense too.

Einstein's SR is no different from LET. Einstein clearly assumed the 
existence of an eather in order to unify all light speeds from 
differently moving sources.

The error Paul and classical physicists make is to assume that light 
behaves like a simple oscillator.  It does not. In the frame of light 
(or a radio signal), there is no oscillation; just a fixed spatial 
distribution of energy that moves at c relative to its source and at a 
particular speed, c+v, relative to each observer. On interception, the 
frequency used to create the spatial pattern is reproduced in the receiver.

In a rotating Sagnac interferometer, the two beams have different path 
lengths. According to BaTh, wavelength is absolute and the phase 
difference when the beams reunite follows the same equation as predicted 
by classical theory...as explained quite simply and clearly right here: 
http://www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html

In the absence of an 'aether', there is no reason why the beams should 
move at c+v and c-v relative to their common source, as claimed by PA 
and Einstein. Although Sagnac does not rule out the existence of 
classical aether, it certainly refutes Einstein's half baked plagiarized 
version.

The fact that wavelength is absolute also makes a mockery of all those 
rotating mirror experiments that are claimed to refute BaTh. 
Interferometry in general is not sensitive to light speeds at all, only 
path lengths. Even if one path moved at ten times the speed of the other 
there would be no fringe displacement.




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