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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #673895 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-09-30 01:55 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-05 09:46 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 27 — 9 participants |
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BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2026-09-30 01:55 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-09-30 07:52 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-30 10:40 +0200
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-30 13:38 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-10-02 12:10 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-02 23:03 +0200
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-10-03 19:55 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-03 22:52 +0200
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Ken Tulohonov <onvn@onotlvt.ru> - 2026-10-03 21:38 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-03 22:53 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-03 23:11 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-04 00:40 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-10-04 11:13 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-04 09:55 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-04 11:27 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Dennie Duronov <urnd@rnd.ru> - 2026-10-04 21:08 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-05 10:48 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-04 14:03 +0200
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Ambrose Bazanov <an@mao.ru> - 2026-10-04 21:04 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-05 19:44 +0200
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 14:35 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-10-04 11:04 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-04 17:58 +0200
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-10-05 08:59 +0000
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-05 13:53 +0200
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 07:53 -0700
Re: BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 09:46 -0700
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 01:55 +0000 |
| Subject | BEING exists, Nothingness does not. |
| Message-ID | <wgJsKWn1UocHEgvuD71xcEf4x0o@jntp> |
The key point to consider is that if BEING exists, Nothingness does not. Relativistic thought introduces a form of "Nothingness" wherein observable time (To)—as opposed to proper, real time (Tr) and anisochrony time (€t)—is conceptualized merely as the curve traced by the tip of the To vector during the analysis of an accelerated reference frame. Yet, this is incorrect; what actually matters is the magnitude of the vector itself at any given moment. If one mistakenly adopts the former view, an unsightly "corner" appears in the model. But that is not the reality. It is this abstract notion—conceived by the human mind—that creates an artificial and inexplicable singularity. This acceleration curve has no real existence; what truly exists is proper time, anisochrony, and observable time (whether terrestrial or in the laboratory)—represented by the vector OP at any given instant. Once this useless abstract concept is banished from the mind, the problem vanishes, and the "corner" disappears. When the engine of an accelerating rocket cuts out, the craft simply continues its journey smoothly, in Galilean motion. R.H.
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| From | Python <python@cccp.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 07:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <SL3CCNzLketGmdW7OmPCXtMcCkw@jntp> |
| In reply to | #673895 |
That's certainly an elegant way to eliminate a discontinuity: declare that the thing displaying it doesn't exist. :-) Unfortunately, the "corner" isn't in the rocket's trajectory. It's in your equations. At the same Vr: accelerated: dTo/dTr = [1 + Vr^2/(2c^2)] / sqrt[1 + Vr^2/(4c^2)] Galilean: dTo/dTr = sqrt[1 + Vr^2/c^2] For example, at Vr = sqrt(2)c: accelerated: 1.63299... Galilean: 1.73205... Same Vr, two different values. You may banish the curve, Nothingness, abstract thought, and half of metaphysics if you like. Those two numbers stubbornly refuse to disappear. And your phi = Vrm/Vri was introduced precisely to explain the transition between them. So the corner hasn't vanished.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 10:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s28vr9.19worpiwx2wlcN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #673895 |
Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> wrote: > The key point to consider is that if BEING exists, Nothingness does not. You are guilty of empty set denialism, Jan
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 13:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6ABD733A.146@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #673895 |
Richard Hachel wrote: > > The key point to consider is that if BEING exists, Nothingness does not. > Relativistic thought introduces a form of "Nothingness" "Nothingness" has nothing to do with Relativistic. "Nothingness" is a religion by religious fanatics. "Nothingness" is a religion. Look at who originated "Nothingness". -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-02 12:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18dab53395caa200$845$16561$4256dc03@news.newsgroupdirect.com> |
| In reply to | #673971 |
On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 13:38:18 -0700, The Starmaker wrote: > Richard Hachel wrote: >> >> The key point to consider is that if BEING exists, Nothingness does >> not. >> Relativistic thought introduces a form of "Nothingness" > > "Nothingness" has nothing to do with Relativistic. > > > "Nothingness" is a religion by religious fanatics. > > "Nothingness" is a religion. > > > Look at who originated "Nothingness". 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a serious crime. Space is nothing, that's why it can extend to infinity in all directions. Nothing does not need two ends. Within it are regions containing 'somethings', which are called 'universes'
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-02 23:03 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s2cwrz.ixdybeuv11fdN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #674080 |
HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 13:38:18 -0700, The Starmaker wrote: > > > Richard Hachel wrote: > >> > >> The key point to consider is that if BEING exists, Nothingness does > >> not. > >> Relativistic thought introduces a form of "Nothingness" > > > > "Nothingness" has nothing to do with Relativistic. > > > > > > "Nothingness" is a religion by religious fanatics. > > > > "Nothingness" is a religion. > > > > > > Look at who originated "Nothingness". > > 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a > serious crime. Source for this papal rule? Jan
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| From | HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-03 19:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18db1d209cb68d2c$11318$16561$4256dc03@news.newsgroupdirect.com> |
| In reply to | #674116 |
On Fri, 2 Oct 2026 23:03:31 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote: > HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 13:38:18 -0700, The Starmaker wrote: >> >> > Richard Hachel wrote: >> >> >> >> The key point to consider is that if BEING exists, Nothingness does >> >> not. >> >> Relativistic thought introduces a form of "Nothingness" >> > >> > "Nothingness" has nothing to do with Relativistic. >> > >> > >> > "Nothingness" is a religion by religious fanatics. >> > >> > "Nothingness" is a religion. >> > >> > >> > Look at who originated "Nothingness". >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a >> serious crime. > > Source for this papal rule? Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of money' or astronomy. It is there somewhere. > Jan
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-03 22:52 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s2fc1z.13u3ytv1htr0zdN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #674156 |
HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote: > On Fri, 2 Oct 2026 23:03:31 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote: > > > HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 13:38:18 -0700, The Starmaker wrote: > >> > >> > Richard Hachel wrote: > >> >> > >> >> The key point to consider is that if BEING exists, Nothingness does > >> >> not. > >> >> Relativistic thought introduces a form of "Nothingness" > >> > > >> > "Nothingness" has nothing to do with Relativistic. > >> > > >> > > >> > "Nothingness" is a religion by religious fanatics. > >> > > >> > "Nothingness" is a religion. > >> > > >> > > >> > Look at who originated "Nothingness". > >> > >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a > >> serious crime. > > > > Source for this papal rule? > > Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of money' > or astronomy. It is there somewhere. OK, no source, just loose talk, Jan (not surprised)
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| From | Ken Tulohonov <onvn@onotlvt.ru> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-03 21:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <119rskq$hmdm$1@news.nntp4.net> |
| In reply to | #674157 |
J. J. Lodder wrote: >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a >> >> serious crime. >> > >> > Source for this papal rule? >> >> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of >> money' >> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. > > OK, no source, just loose talk, not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does not. No
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-03 22:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AC1E9E5.45C1@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #674158 |
Ken Tulohonov wrote: > > J. J. Lodder wrote: > > >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a > >> >> serious crime. > >> > > >> > Source for this papal rule? > >> > >> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of > >> money' > >> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. > > > > OK, no source, just loose talk, > > not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does > not. No There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there naturally. Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-03 23:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AC1EE01.3BA6@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #674159 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > Ken Tulohonov wrote: > > > > J. J. Lodder wrote: > > > > >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a > > >> >> serious crime. > > >> > > > >> > Source for this papal rule? > > >> > > >> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of > > >> money' > > >> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. > > > > > > OK, no source, just loose talk, > > > > not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does > > not. No > > There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there > naturally. > > Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. When Ai first came out it was terrible at Math. Ai was thinking..."Where da fuck do these humans get these numbers from????" Then the Ai said, "Wait a minute, they add letters to these numbers??? "Are they words?" -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-04 00:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AC202DD.194C@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #674160 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > > Ken Tulohonov wrote: > > > > > > J. J. Lodder wrote: > > > > > > >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a > > > >> >> serious crime. > > > >> > > > > >> > Source for this papal rule? > > > >> > > > >> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of > > > >> money' > > > >> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. > > > > > > > > OK, no source, just loose talk, > > > > > > not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does > > > not. No > > > > There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there > > naturally. > > > > Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. > > When Ai first came out > it was terrible at Math. > > Ai was thinking..."Where da fuck do these humans get these numbers > from????" > > Then the Ai said, "Wait a minute, they add letters to these numbers??? > "Are they words?" Humans 'project' numbers into things... -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-04 11:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18db4f392803f663$11780$16561$4256dc03@news.newsgroupdirect.com> |
| In reply to | #674159 |
On Sat, 03 Oct 2026 22:53:41 -0700, The Starmaker wrote: > Ken Tulohonov wrote: >> >> J. J. Lodder wrote: >> >> >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero >> >> >> was a serious crime. >> >> > >> >> > Source for this papal rule? >> >> >> >> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of >> >> money' >> >> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. >> > >> > OK, no source, just loose talk, >> >> not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does >> not. No > > There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there > naturally. > > Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. Wrong! If there was absolutely nothing, the laws of mathematics would still hold. In fact the whole universe might be just a mathematical possibility and therefore IS. Murphy's lesser known law applies. "If something CAN happen it WILL"...and here we are!
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-04 09:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AC284F3.6C0A@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #674169 |
HenryWilson wrote: > > On Sat, 03 Oct 2026 22:53:41 -0700, The Starmaker wrote: > > > Ken Tulohonov wrote: > >> > >> J. J. Lodder wrote: > >> > >> >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero > >> >> >> was a serious crime. > >> >> > > >> >> > Source for this papal rule? > >> >> > >> >> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of > >> >> money' > >> >> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. > >> > > >> > OK, no source, just loose talk, > >> > >> not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does > >> not. No > > > > There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there > > naturally. > > > > Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. > > Wrong! If there was absolutely nothing, the laws of mathematics would > still hold. In fact the whole universe might be just a mathematical > possibility and therefore IS. Murphy's lesser known law applies. "If > something CAN happen it WILL"...and here we are! Let me give you a simple example... You put a table in front of you, you put a lollipop on the table you put another lollipop on the table you put another lollipop on the table You probably by now counted three lollipos on the table. Do you see a number 3 on the table? There is no number three, you just read the number 3 into it. Numbers don't exist. There are no numbers out there.. it's all in your mind. The universe is not mathematical. There aren't three lollipos on the table. It's just you put a lollipop on the table you put another lollipop on the table you put another lollipop on the table patterns repeated events Red lollipop yellow lollipop Red lollipop There are no numbers. -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-04 11:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e7ucnZ6hgdkfB1_3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #674169 |
On 10/04/2026 04:13 AM, HenryWilson wrote: > On Sat, 03 Oct 2026 22:53:41 -0700, The Starmaker wrote: > >> Ken Tulohonov wrote: >>> >>> J. J. Lodder wrote: >>> >>>>>>> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero >>>>>>> was a serious crime. >>>>>> >>>>>> Source for this papal rule? >>>>> >>>>> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of >>>>> money' >>>>> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. >>>> >>>> OK, no source, just loose talk, >>> >>> not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does >>> not. No >> >> There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there >> naturally. >> >> Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. > > Wrong! If there was absolutely nothing, the laws of mathematics would > still hold. In fact the whole universe might be just a mathematical > possibility and therefore IS. Murphy's lesser known law applies. "If > something CAN happen it WILL"...and here we are! > That "space exists" is usually given in the negative since Aristotle with "nature abhors a vacuum", yet one must acknowledge that it's simply the result of an inductive argument and sticking with "substance exists", that yet "substrate exists" is certainly part of modern theories like physics' with Einstein's. Half-Aristotleans and other adherents to "the invincible ignorance of inductive inference" plainly _fail_ in the super-classical, which is. Zero, one, and infinity are the regular singular points of the hypergeometric. "Numbers exist" is not only a usual account of platonism the mathematical platonism, also they say you don't exist.
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| From | Dennie Duronov <urnd@rnd.ru> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-04 21:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <119uf8l$m1r9$2@news.nntp4.net> |
| In reply to | #674159 |
The Starmaker wrote: > Ken Tulohonov wrote: >> not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does >> not. No > > There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there > naturally. > > Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. imbecile, integers exists all around you, take a proper look, and pay attention what they are
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-05 10:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AC3E30A.33A2@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #674187 |
Dennie Duronov wrote: > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > Ken Tulohonov wrote: > >> not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, but the Roman numbers does > >> not. No > > > > There are no natural numbers since numbers don't exist out there > > naturally. > > > > Numbers are simply what one reads into, not out of. > > imbecile, integers exists all around you, take a proper look, and pay > attention what they are a "proper look" would mean ...projection from inside you outside. ooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i see intergers everywhere! there is one on my potatoe chip next to the flying saucer. lucy in the sky with diamonds -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-04 14:03 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s2gclw.19nustj178qsdhN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #674158 |
Ken Tulohonov <onvn@onotlvt.ru> wrote: > J. J. Lodder wrote: > > >> >> 1000 years ago, the pope ruled that mentioning the number zero was a > >> >> serious crime. > >> > > >> > Source for this papal rule? > >> > >> Wikipedia...'history of number' I think...or maybe the 'history of > >> money' > >> or astronomy. It is there somewhere. > > > > OK, no source, just loose talk, > > not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, That depends on which mathematician you consult about it. > but the Roman numbers does not. No. Romans did not calculate with their numbers. They used an abacus, and their numbers were just a convenient notation for the state of the abacus. The zero is implicit in any abacus. (the empty position) There just is no need to write it out, Jan
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| From | Ambrose Bazanov <an@mao.ru> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-04 21:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <119uf1m$m1r9$1@news.nntp4.net> |
| In reply to | #674172 |
J. J. Lodder wrote: >> > OK, no source, just loose talk, >> >> not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, > > That depends on which mathematician you consult about it. > >> but the Roman numbers does not. No. > > Romans did not calculate with their numbers. > They used an abacus, > and their numbers were just a convenient notation for the state of the > abacus. > > The zero is implicit in any abacus. (the empty position) There just is > no need to write it out, thanks
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-05 19:44 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s2ijw4.1k0yz2y60obk0N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #674186 |
Ambrose Bazanov <an@mao.ru> wrote: > J. J. Lodder wrote: > > >> > OK, no source, just loose talk, > >> > >> not sure the Natural numbers includes zero, > > > > That depends on which mathematician you consult about it. > > > >> but the Roman numbers does not. No. > > > > Romans did not calculate with their numbers. > > They used an abacus, > > and their numbers were just a convenient notation for the state of the > > abacus. > > > > The zero is implicit in any abacus. (the empty position) There just is > > no need to write it out, > > thanks For further information: It was pope Sylvester II (~946 papacy 999-1003) who reintroduced the abacus, and lots more of arabic science, in Western Europe to make arithmetic practical again. He also knew about hindu-arabic numerals. He was a scientist in his own right. Much more at: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Sylvester_II> The whole idea of dumb priest and popes suppressing all knowledge, and believing the Earth to be flat, is an idea from 19th century (mostly American) anti-clericalist propaganda, Jan
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