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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #672953 > unrolled thread

Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space

Started byHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
First post2026-09-07 16:06 +0000
Last post2026-09-10 23:58 +0200
Articles 12 on this page of 72 — 9 participants

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  Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-07 16:06 +0000
    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-09-07 16:12 +0000
      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-07 16:30 +0000
        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-09 12:12 +0300
          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-09 23:35 +0000
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-10 11:18 +0300
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-10 17:52 +0000
                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 12:09 -0700
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-11 00:11 +0000
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 19:20 -0700
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-11 21:02 +0000
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 16:11 -0700
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-12 00:44 +0000
                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-11 11:26 +0300
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-09-11 11:02 +0200
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 07:37 -0700
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-11 21:05 +0000
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-12 13:05 +0300
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 07:41 -0700
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 07:48 -0700
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 08:25 -0700
                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-13 23:12 +0000
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 18:16 -0700
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 18:35 -0700
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 16:01 +0000
                                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:21 -0700
                                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 17:14 +0000
                                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:24 -0700
                                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-15 00:03 +0000
                                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 17:22 -0700
                                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-15 05:21 +0000
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-14 11:43 +0200
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 15:48 +0000
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 08:52 -0700
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:25 -0700
                                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:45 -0700
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-12 12:59 +0200
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-09-12 13:04 +0200
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-13 23:28 +0000
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-14 11:41 +0300
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 16:05 +0000
                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:24 -0700
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 17:18 +0000
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:29 -0700
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:53 -0700
                                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 23:49 +0000
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 23:48 +0000
                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-15 12:07 +0300
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-15 23:25 +0000
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-16 10:48 +0300
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-14 11:43 +0200
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 16:14 +0000
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-09-13 10:18 +0200
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 07:30 -0700
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 09:45 -0700
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-11 22:10 +0200
                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 16:13 -0700
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-12 00:46 +0000
          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-09-29 10:56 +0000
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-29 15:12 -0700
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-02 20:46 -0700
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-30 09:43 +0000
    Speed of light (was: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-09-09 04:03 +0200
    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-09 12:06 +0300
      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-09 23:39 +0000
        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-09 16:44 -0700
          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-09 17:12 -0700
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-10 18:19 +0000
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-11 08:45 -0700
    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-09 11:31 +0200
      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-09 23:43 +0000
        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-10 23:58 +0200

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#674119

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2026-10-02 20:46 -0700
Message-ID<6AC07A91.715F@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#673893
The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> Stefan Ram wrote:
> >
> > Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> wrote or quoted:
> > >Maxwell did not say one way or other whether the speed of light is
> > >c relative to its source. From what he did say we can infer that he
> > >thought that that depeds on the motion of the source. Maxwell thought
> > >that the speed of light is c in some frame that was later called ether.
> >
> >   In a reference frame, Maxwell's equations yield the wave equation
> >
> > Nabla^2 E = mu_0 eps_0 d^2/dt^2 E,
> >
> >   and the solutions have speed 1/sqrt(mu_0 eps_0), which is c. There
> >   is no source term, i.e., no dependency on the speed of a source.
> 
> There is no such thing as "Empty Space".
> 
> it has to hit something...
> 
> it doesn't doge stuff..
> 
> so it cannot ever reach 'it's' speed of light.
> 
> Vacumns do not exist.
> 
> empty space does not exist.
> 
> dat is why the earth revolves around the sun...
> the sun is in it's way.
> 
> wat is the speed of light in the ocean?
> 
> if it don't hit a fish...


Now, what is the speed of light relative to...me?


To light, i probably look like i'm standing still...

everything is standing still.


if you slow down light
i'm in slow motion
if you slow
down light all the way..
i'm faster than the speed of light.
light is standing still.




-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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#673914

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-30 09:43 +0000
Message-ID<18da100a193e73af$401$2439770$4296dcc3@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673864
On 29 Sep 2026 10:56:10 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

> Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> wrote or quoted:
>>Maxwell did not say one way or other whether the speed of light is c
>>relative to its source. From what he did say we can infer that he
>>thought that that depeds on the motion of the source. Maxwell thought
>>that the speed of light is c in some frame that was later called ether.
> 
>   In a reference frame, Maxwell's equations yield the wave equation
> 
> Nabla^2 E = mu_0 eps_0 d^2/dt^2 E,
> 
>   and the solutions have speed 1/sqrt(mu_0 eps_0), which is c. There is
>   no source term, i.e., no dependency on the speed of a source.

Maxwell believed light was carried by an Aether medium. He produced a 
number that was close to the then estimated speed of light. It turned out 
to be a very important universal constant, relating to the mutual 
induction between electricity and magnetism. It was subsequently found to 
also represent the speed of light relative to its source...and there is 
nothing in Maxwell's equations that suggests otherwise. If you think light 
does not move at c relative to its source...which might be possible...I 
would like to hear your explanation.

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#673042 — Speed of light (was: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space)

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2026-09-09 04:03 +0200
SubjectSpeed of light (was: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space)
Message-ID<117qeor$1sl8d$1@gwaiyur.mb-net.net>
In reply to#672953
HenryWilson wrote:
> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to 
> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.

Fallacy.  When we are talking about the speed of light in vacuum, we mean
that the speed with which light propagates _through_ a region of space that
is *otherwise* devoid of material objects, i.e. there is no transparent or
translucent optical medium (like air) _between_ the location where the light
(seemed to) have originated (e.g. a light source) and the location to which
it propagated and where it was observed/measured.

Notice that there are different qualities of vacuum, too; without
qualification, in this regard we mean an ideal classical vacuum that is
devoid of any real particles.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#673052

FromMikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Date2026-09-09 12:06 +0300
Message-ID<117r7jc$vvmg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#672953
On 07/09/2026 19:06, HenryWilson wrote:
> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to
> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.

If the space is bigger than the light source there could be empty
space somewhere.

The speed of light in air is close ehough to c for many purposes.

-- 
Mikko

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#673064

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-09 23:39 +0000
Message-ID<18d3cb6e9133c335$13871$1943410$4296dcc3@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673052
On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:06:51 +0300, Mikko wrote:

> On 07/09/2026 19:06, HenryWilson wrote:
>> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to
>> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.
> 
> If the space is bigger than the light source there could be empty space
> somewhere.
> 
> The speed of light in air is close ehough to c for many purposes.

The speed of light anywhere in our whole solar system is very close to c. 
That's why Einstein got away with it for so long

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#673066

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2026-09-09 16:44 -0700
Message-ID<6AA1EF42.1EEE@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#673064
HenryWilson wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:06:51 +0300, Mikko wrote:
> 
> > On 07/09/2026 19:06, HenryWilson wrote:
> >> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to
> >> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.
> >
> > If the space is bigger than the light source there could be empty space
> > somewhere.
> >
> > The speed of light in air is close ehough to c for many purposes.
> 
> The speed of light anywhere in our whole solar system is very close to c.
> That's why Einstein got away with it for so long


Eighty-nine quadrillion, eight hundred seventy-five trillion, five
hundred seventeen billion, eight hundred seventy-three million, six
hundred eighty-one thousand, seven hundred sixty-four.


-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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#673070

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2026-09-09 17:12 -0700
Message-ID<6AA1F600.7E85@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#673066
The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> HenryWilson wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:06:51 +0300, Mikko wrote:
> >
> > > On 07/09/2026 19:06, HenryWilson wrote:
> > >> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to
> > >> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.
> > >
> > > If the space is bigger than the light source there could be empty space
> > > somewhere.
> > >
> > > The speed of light in air is close ehough to c for many purposes.
> >
> > The speed of light anywhere in our whole solar system is very close to c.
> > That's why Einstein got away with it for so long
> 
> Eighty-nine quadrillion, eight hundred seventy-five trillion, five
> hundred seventeen billion, eight hundred seventy-three million, six
> hundred eighty-one thousand, seven hundred sixty-four.

Energy = mass × Eighty-nine quadrillion, eight hundred seventy-five
trillion, five
 hundred seventeen billion, eight hundred seventy-three million, six
 hundred eighty-one thousand, seven hundred sixty-four.

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673083

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-10 18:19 +0000
Message-ID<18d4088c83e6ec62$10632$1766332$4026de73@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673070
On Wed, 09 Sep 2026 17:12:48 -0700, The Starmaker wrote:

>> > > The speed of light in air is close ehough to c for many purposes.
>> >
>> > The speed of light anywhere in our whole solar system is very close
>> > to c.
>> > That's why Einstein got away with it for so long
>> 
>> Eighty-nine quadrillion, eight hundred seventy-five trillion, five
>> hundred seventeen billion, eight hundred seventy-three million, six
>> hundred eighty-one thousand, seven hundred sixty-four.

Is that a record  of your IQ's reduction  over time?? (x e16) 
 

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#673128

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2026-09-11 08:45 -0700
Message-ID<6AA42229.3491@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#673083
HenryWilson wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 09 Sep 2026 17:12:48 -0700, The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> >> > > The speed of light in air is close ehough to c for many purposes.
> >> >
> >> > The speed of light anywhere in our whole solar system is very close
> >> > to c.
> >> > That's why Einstein got away with it for so long
> >>
> >> Eighty-nine quadrillion, eight hundred seventy-five trillion, five
> >> hundred seventeen billion, eight hundred seventy-three million, six
> >> hundred eighty-one thousand, seven hundred sixty-four.
> 
> Is that a record  of your IQ's reduction  over time?? (x e16)
> 

That was simply an English translation of Albert Einstein's formular for
the atomic bomb.


E=M c^2

E stands for Energy

= stands for equals

M stands for Mass


and the c^2 translated in English is:


Eighty-nine quadrillion, eight hundred seventy-five trillion, five
hundred seventeen billion, eight hundred seventy-three million, six
hundred eighty-one thousand, seven hundred sixty-four.



I don't know what language you speak...
do you want the German version?

In German  E is L





-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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#673054

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2026-09-09 11:31 +0200
Message-ID<1s15zjv.vgd6js1swj5zeN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#672953
HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:

> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to 
> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.

Maxwell never said that,

Jan

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#673065

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-09 23:43 +0000
Message-ID<18d3cbac4057c608$13872$1943410$4296dcc3@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673054
On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 11:31:58 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
> 
>> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to
>> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.
> 
> Maxwell never said that,

Even though he would have known it he couldn't say it because it 
conflicted with his belief in the Aether.
So after studying his equations, I have said it for him.
 
> Jan

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#673093

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2026-09-10 23:58 +0200
Message-ID<1s18oav.1cou9ov1epdu03N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#673065
HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 11:31:58 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> 
> > HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> If space contains a light source, it is not empty...and according to
> >> Maxwell, light always moves at c relative to its source.
> > 
> > Maxwell never said that,
> 
> Even though he would have known it he couldn't say it because it 
> conflicted with his belief in the Aether.
> So after studying his equations, I have said it for him.

So you are a cheater.
Again, no surprise,

Jan

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