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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #672953 > unrolled thread

Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space

Started byHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
First post2026-09-07 16:06 +0000
Last post2026-09-10 23:58 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 72 — 9 participants

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  Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-07 16:06 +0000
    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-09-07 16:12 +0000
      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-07 16:30 +0000
        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-09 12:12 +0300
          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-09 23:35 +0000
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-10 11:18 +0300
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-10 17:52 +0000
                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 12:09 -0700
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-11 00:11 +0000
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 19:20 -0700
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-11 21:02 +0000
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 16:11 -0700
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-12 00:44 +0000
                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-11 11:26 +0300
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-09-11 11:02 +0200
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 07:37 -0700
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-11 21:05 +0000
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-12 13:05 +0300
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 07:41 -0700
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 07:48 -0700
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 08:25 -0700
                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-13 23:12 +0000
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 18:16 -0700
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 18:35 -0700
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 16:01 +0000
                                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:21 -0700
                                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 17:14 +0000
                                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:24 -0700
                                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-15 00:03 +0000
                                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 17:22 -0700
                                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-15 05:21 +0000
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-14 11:43 +0200
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 15:48 +0000
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 08:52 -0700
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:25 -0700
                                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:45 -0700
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-12 12:59 +0200
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-09-12 13:04 +0200
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-13 23:28 +0000
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-14 11:41 +0300
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 16:05 +0000
                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:24 -0700
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 17:18 +0000
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:29 -0700
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 10:53 -0700
                                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 23:49 +0000
                                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 23:48 +0000
                            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-15 12:07 +0300
                              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-15 23:25 +0000
                                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-16 10:48 +0300
                        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-14 11:43 +0200
                          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-14 16:14 +0000
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-09-13 10:18 +0200
                    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 07:30 -0700
                      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 09:45 -0700
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-11 22:10 +0200
                Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 16:13 -0700
                  Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-12 00:46 +0000
          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-09-29 10:56 +0000
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-29 15:12 -0700
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-02 20:46 -0700
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-30 09:43 +0000
    Speed of light (was: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-09-09 04:03 +0200
    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-09-09 12:06 +0300
      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-09 23:39 +0000
        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-09 16:44 -0700
          Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-09 17:12 -0700
            Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-10 18:19 +0000
              Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-09-11 08:45 -0700
    Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-09 11:31 +0200
      Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2026-09-09 23:43 +0000
        Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-09-10 23:58 +0200

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#673166

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-12 08:25 -0700
Message-ID<0vicnTl9NPJi8zj3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673165
On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 09/12/2026 07:41 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 09/12/2026 03:05 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 12/09/2026 00:05, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 11:26:37 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/09/2026 20:52, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Sep 2026 11:18:43 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/09/2026 02:35, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:12:25 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> They say that the speed of light is independent of its source (if
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> is any, they don't say that light always has a source).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    > That would have conflicted with Aether theories so Maxwell
>>>>>>> would>
>>>>>>> have been rather mystified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fortunately nothing that was known at that time conflicts with
>>>>>>> aether
>>>>>>> theory
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is probably correct. The whole of physics was based on its
>>>>>> existence.
>>>>>> That's why Einstein's theory was snapped up after the MMX proved
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> was no Aether.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michelson-Morley experiment did not prove that there is no aether. It
>>>>> only proved that something was not understood. Lorentz and other could
>>>>> explain the result assuming that there is an ether. But Poincaré and
>>>>> Einstein observed that the the same can be explained with alnost the
>>>>> same explanation without any aether.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it is called magic.
>>>
>>> It usually isn't, though sometimes moving a body without touching it
>>> (as can be dome with an electromagnetic field) has been called "magic".
>>>
>>>>>> Einstein's mathematical skullduggery saved a lot of damaged
>>>>>> reputations.
>>>>>
>>>>> EInstein's mathematics is valid. Mathematicians have inproved the
>>>>> presentation and connected relativity to rigorous mathematical
>>>>> theories.
>>>
>>>> It is completely imaginary. It works in many practical situations...but
>>>> goes terribly wrong in others.
>>>
>>> Special relativity does not work in situations where gravity matters.
>>> General relativity does. There is no observation that shows that
>>> general relativity is wrong. There are problems with quantum gravity
>>> but there are no observations about situations where quantum gravity
>>> woutld really make a difference.
>>>
>>
>> Actually since one way of defining "quantum gravity" is a fall gravity
>> where the atom is the real graviton, then among super-symmetric accounts
>> of Higgs and Little Higgs as gravitons, then the fall gravity
>> is the same force as the strong nuclear force, anyways Higgs-ians
>> and the hadron-physics are not the only game in town, and a usual
>> account of a theory of gravity that's not constantly violating
>> conservation of energy everywhere has it that "gravity, the force"
>> isn't present in either GR or QM since without it being a fall gravity
>> and unified with the strong nuclear force it's a constant violation
>> of the conservation of energy everywhere.
>>
>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for
>> example the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account
>> of "asymptotic freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity
>> and the strong nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though
> his account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what makes the
> geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always instantaneously
> evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit, that accounts of
> gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like Fatio/LeSage's
> account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating conservation of
> energy everywhere.
>
>

The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts
of "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like
"fifth force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".


Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian
and so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first place.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673233

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-13 23:12 +0000
Message-ID<18d5044d8f41be22$18938$1943410$4296dcc3@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673166
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:

> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>
>>>
>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for example
>>> the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of "asymptotic
>>> freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and the strong
>>> nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
>> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
>> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
>> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though his
>> account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
>> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what makes
>> the geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always
>> instantaneously evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit,
>> that accounts of gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like
>> Fatio/LeSage's account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating
>> conservation of energy everywhere.
>>
>>
>>
> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
> 
> 
> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian and
> so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
> place.

How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between two 
Neodymium bar magnets?
His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of 
redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves 
nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
Physics is still in its infancy...and Einstein has delayed its 
advancement. It has no idea how any force is derived. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673240

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-13 18:16 -0700
Message-ID<8CednZ2p3sjO1jr3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673233
On 09/13/2026 04:12 PM, HenryWilson wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for example
>>>> the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of "asymptotic
>>>> freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and the strong
>>>> nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
>>> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
>>> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
>>> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though his
>>> account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
>>> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what makes
>>> the geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always
>>> instantaneously evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit,
>>> that accounts of gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like
>>> Fatio/LeSage's account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating
>>> conservation of energy everywhere.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
>> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
>> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
>> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
>>
>>
>> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian and
>> so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>> place.
>
> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between two
> Neodymium bar magnets?
> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
> Physics is still in its infancy...and Einstein has delayed its
> advancement. It has no idea how any force is derived.
>

Permament magnets are usually due being put in a magnetic field
when in liquid form then solidified as magnetized.

Then, the magnetic configuration is just an extension of their
physical configuration. Melt the magnet and it goes away.

The neodymium just has particular properties that makes it strong
with small magnets, about actinides and lanthanides and usually
enough just the theory of magnetic moments.

Whether "magnetic monopoles don't exist" or "magnetic monopoles
exist" about skyrmions & spintronics has that skyrmions are theoretical
particles in theories still being developed today and spintronics are
active effects being actively developed today.


Then, about metals and conductors and magnets, you can find various
accounts about the behavior of constituent matter in metals like
"one big atom" and so on.

Then, look to things like Sandia's Z-Pinch if you want to know some
more about it, or for example Bayliss' Electrodynamics a geometric
algebra approach, anyways permanent magnets are simply due materials
the conditions their configuration.



Anyways, here for "gravity" to not be "constant violation of
conservation of energy" everywhere all the time, it's a fall-gravity,
then for that to be an "inertial-system" not a "perpetual-motion-machine".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673241

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-13 18:35 -0700
Message-ID<boCcnR2MC8cf0jr3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673240
On 09/13/2026 06:16 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 09/13/2026 04:12 PM, HenryWilson wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for example
>>>>> the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of "asymptotic
>>>>> freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and the strong
>>>>> nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
>>>> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
>>>> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
>>>> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though his
>>>> account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
>>>> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what makes
>>>> the geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always
>>>> instantaneously evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit,
>>>> that accounts of gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like
>>>> Fatio/LeSage's account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating
>>>> conservation of energy everywhere.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
>>> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
>>> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
>>> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian and
>>> so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>>> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>>> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>>> place.
>>
>> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between
>> two
>> Neodymium bar magnets?
>> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
>> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
>> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
>> Physics is still in its infancy...and Einstein has delayed its
>> advancement. It has no idea how any force is derived.
>>
>
> Permament magnets are usually due being put in a magnetic field
> when in liquid form then solidified as magnetized.
>
> Then, the magnetic configuration is just an extension of their
> physical configuration. Melt the magnet and it goes away.
>
> The neodymium just has particular properties that makes it strong
> with small magnets, about actinides and lanthanides and usually
> enough just the theory of magnetic moments.
>
> Whether "magnetic monopoles don't exist" or "magnetic monopoles
> exist" about skyrmions & spintronics has that skyrmions are theoretical
> particles in theories still being developed today and spintronics are
> active effects being actively developed today.
>
>
> Then, about metals and conductors and magnets, you can find various
> accounts about the behavior of constituent matter in metals like
> "one big atom" and so on.
>
> Then, look to things like Sandia's Z-Pinch if you want to know some
> more about it, or for example Bayliss' Electrodynamics a geometric
> algebra approach, anyways permanent magnets are simply due materials
> the conditions their configuration.
>
>
>
> Anyways, here for "gravity" to not be "constant violation of
> conservation of energy" everywhere all the time, it's a fall-gravity,
> then for that to be an "inertial-system" not a "perpetual-motion-machine".
>
>

If you've heard of nucleonics as an entirely different account of
nuclear theory than today's often promoted Higgsian hadron theory,
it has its own sort of chart of the elements.

Then, about Maxwell laws and "the" lettered electrical and magnetic
fields variously whether those are E x B or D x H, most people only
having heard of one of those then sometimes a third letter when in
the derivations the field-lines of the vector-fields their crossings
run out, since the nineteenth century there's a whole alphabet of
lettered fields of electromagnetism, about ferro- and ferro- and para-
and dia- and the anti-'s of each of those, magnetism, most of which
are "potential" fields vis-a-vis "classical" fields, which in
"potentialistic" theories are the "real" fields.

These then are matters of materials in configuration, where, for
example, "permanent" magnets can be de-magnetized by melting them
or hitting them with a hammer or otherwise adjusting their material
configuration.


Maxwell one can note says that actually either of E x B or D x H is
in effect, though one has to be called "virtual" or "fictitious" the
other, that much like Lagrange for the "energy" and "potential energy"
or the "centripetal" and "centrifugal", the "fictitious forces" are
plenty real.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673261

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-14 16:01 +0000
Message-ID<18d53b5cc8e9aafe$11657$1766332$4026de73@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673241
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 18:35:40 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:

> On 09/13/2026 06:16 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 09/13/2026 04:12 PM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for
>>>>>> example the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of
>>>>>> "asymptotic freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and
>>>>>> the strong nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly
>>>>> violate conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an
>>>>> "inertial-system", which is a good idea since then the massy bodies
>>>>> being inert aren't constantly violating conservation of energy
>>>>> everywhere, then though his account of the geodesy as
>>>>> "follow-gravity" after Newton's "pull-gravity" does not have an
>>>>> account of the mechanism of what makes the geodesy, only that it's
>>>>> always straight-down and always instantaneously evaluated
>>>>> everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit, that accounts of gravity
>>>>> that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like Fatio/LeSage's account of
>>>>> "push-gravity" are constantly violating conservation of energy
>>>>> everywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
>>>> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
>>>> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
>>>> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian
>>>> and so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>>>> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>>>> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>>>> place.
>>>
>>> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between
>>> two Neodymium bar magnets?
>>> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
>>> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
>>> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
>>> Physics is still in its infancy...and Einstein has delayed its
>>> advancement. It has no idea how any force is derived.
>>>
>>>
>> Permament magnets are usually due being put in a magnetic field when in
>> liquid form then solidified as magnetized.
>>
>> Then, the magnetic configuration is just an extension of their physical
>> configuration. Melt the magnet and it goes away.
>>
>> The neodymium just has particular properties that makes it strong with
>> small magnets, about actinides and lanthanides and usually enough just
>> the theory of magnetic moments.
>>
>> Whether "magnetic monopoles don't exist" or "magnetic monopoles exist"
>> about skyrmions & spintronics has that skyrmions are theoretical
>> particles in theories still being developed today and spintronics are
>> active effects being actively developed today.
>>
>>
>> Then, about metals and conductors and magnets, you can find various
>> accounts about the behavior of constituent matter in metals like "one
>> big atom" and so on.
>>
>> Then, look to things like Sandia's Z-Pinch if you want to know some
>> more about it, or for example Bayliss' Electrodynamics a geometric
>> algebra approach, anyways permanent magnets are simply due materials
>> the conditions their configuration.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyways, here for "gravity" to not be "constant violation of
>> conservation of energy" everywhere all the time, it's a fall-gravity,
>> then for that to be an "inertial-system" not a
>> "perpetual-motion-machine".
>>
>>
>>
> If you've heard of nucleonics as an entirely different account of
> nuclear theory than today's often promoted Higgsian hadron theory,
> it has its own sort of chart of the elements.
> 
> Then, about Maxwell laws and "the" lettered electrical and magnetic
> fields variously whether those are E x B or D x H, most people only
> having heard of one of those then sometimes a third letter when in the
> derivations the field-lines of the vector-fields their crossings run
> out, since the nineteenth century there's a whole alphabet of lettered
> fields of electromagnetism, about ferro- and ferro- and para-
> and dia- and the anti-'s of each of those, magnetism, most of which are
> "potential" fields vis-a-vis "classical" fields, which in
> "potentialistic" theories are the "real" fields.
> 
> These then are matters of materials in configuration, where, for
> example, "permanent" magnets can be de-magnetized by melting them or
> hitting them with a hammer or otherwise adjusting their material
> configuration.
> 
> 
> Maxwell one can note says that actually either of E x B or D x H is in
> effect, though one has to be called "virtual" or "fictitious" the other,
> that much like Lagrange for the "energy" and "potential energy"
> or the "centripetal" and "centrifugal", the "fictitious forces" are
> plenty real.

You just typed 398 words, 2496 characters including spaces just to show 
that you cannot answer the question. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673264

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-14 09:21 -0700
Message-ID<f_adnRVdMpWUgjX3nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673261
On 09/14/2026 09:01 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 18:35:40 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>
>> On 09/13/2026 06:16 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>> On 09/13/2026 04:12 PM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for
>>>>>>> example the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of
>>>>>>> "asymptotic freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and
>>>>>>> the strong nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly
>>>>>> violate conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an
>>>>>> "inertial-system", which is a good idea since then the massy bodies
>>>>>> being inert aren't constantly violating conservation of energy
>>>>>> everywhere, then though his account of the geodesy as
>>>>>> "follow-gravity" after Newton's "pull-gravity" does not have an
>>>>>> account of the mechanism of what makes the geodesy, only that it's
>>>>>> always straight-down and always instantaneously evaluated
>>>>>> everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit, that accounts of gravity
>>>>>> that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like Fatio/LeSage's account of
>>>>>> "push-gravity" are constantly violating conservation of energy
>>>>>> everywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
>>>>> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
>>>>> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
>>>>> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian
>>>>> and so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>>>>> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>>>>> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>>>>> place.
>>>>
>>>> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between
>>>> two Neodymium bar magnets?
>>>> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
>>>> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
>>>> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
>>>> Physics is still in its infancy...and Einstein has delayed its
>>>> advancement. It has no idea how any force is derived.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Permament magnets are usually due being put in a magnetic field when in
>>> liquid form then solidified as magnetized.
>>>
>>> Then, the magnetic configuration is just an extension of their physical
>>> configuration. Melt the magnet and it goes away.
>>>
>>> The neodymium just has particular properties that makes it strong with
>>> small magnets, about actinides and lanthanides and usually enough just
>>> the theory of magnetic moments.
>>>
>>> Whether "magnetic monopoles don't exist" or "magnetic monopoles exist"
>>> about skyrmions & spintronics has that skyrmions are theoretical
>>> particles in theories still being developed today and spintronics are
>>> active effects being actively developed today.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then, about metals and conductors and magnets, you can find various
>>> accounts about the behavior of constituent matter in metals like "one
>>> big atom" and so on.
>>>
>>> Then, look to things like Sandia's Z-Pinch if you want to know some
>>> more about it, or for example Bayliss' Electrodynamics a geometric
>>> algebra approach, anyways permanent magnets are simply due materials
>>> the conditions their configuration.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyways, here for "gravity" to not be "constant violation of
>>> conservation of energy" everywhere all the time, it's a fall-gravity,
>>> then for that to be an "inertial-system" not a
>>> "perpetual-motion-machine".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> If you've heard of nucleonics as an entirely different account of
>> nuclear theory than today's often promoted Higgsian hadron theory,
>> it has its own sort of chart of the elements.
>>
>> Then, about Maxwell laws and "the" lettered electrical and magnetic
>> fields variously whether those are E x B or D x H, most people only
>> having heard of one of those then sometimes a third letter when in the
>> derivations the field-lines of the vector-fields their crossings run
>> out, since the nineteenth century there's a whole alphabet of lettered
>> fields of electromagnetism, about ferro- and ferro- and para-
>> and dia- and the anti-'s of each of those, magnetism, most of which are
>> "potential" fields vis-a-vis "classical" fields, which in
>> "potentialistic" theories are the "real" fields.
>>
>> These then are matters of materials in configuration, where, for
>> example, "permanent" magnets can be de-magnetized by melting them or
>> hitting them with a hammer or otherwise adjusting their material
>> configuration.
>>
>>
>> Maxwell one can note says that actually either of E x B or D x H is in
>> effect, though one has to be called "virtual" or "fictitious" the other,
>> that much like Lagrange for the "energy" and "potential energy"
>> or the "centripetal" and "centrifugal", the "fictitious forces" are
>> plenty real.
>
> You just typed 398 words, 2496 characters including spaces just to show
> that you cannot answer the question.
>

Well, you have to remember again that since O.W. Richardson put it
"there are at least three constants 'c': light's, electrostatic's,
and electrodynamics'", then as with regards to Coulomb giving the
inverse-square attraction/repulsion of unlike/like charge, then
that magnetism is always involved with the kinetic and kinematic
and configurations of matter according to Einstein's "material points
and rigid rods", then that accounts of the strengths of various
materials their magnetic fields according to configuration are due
structural chemistry and material science, and resonance theory,
about wave/particle duality, that that's how the question's answerable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673273

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-14 17:14 +0000
Message-ID<18d53f5150a01bf6$11663$1766332$4026de73@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673264
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:21:06 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:

> On 09/14/2026 09:01 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 18:35:40 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:

>>
>> You just typed 398 words, 2496 characters including spaces just to show
>> that you cannot answer the question.
>>
>>
> Well, you have to remember again that since O.W. Richardson put it
> "there are at least three constants 'c': light's, electrostatic's,
> and electrodynamics'", then as with regards to Coulomb giving the
> inverse-square attraction/repulsion of unlike/like charge, then that
> magnetism is always involved with the kinetic and kinematic and
> configurations of matter according to Einstein's "material points and
> rigid rods", then that accounts of the strengths of various materials
> their magnetic fields according to configuration are due structural
> chemistry and material science, and resonance theory,
> about wave/particle duality, that that's how the question's answerable.

More words saying nothing. WHAT FORCE CONTINUALLY PUSHES TWO NEODYMIUM BAR 
MAGNETS TOGETHER?

Why don't you simply say, "we don't know"?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673275

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-14 10:24 -0700
Message-ID<I2ednTFBnfpwsDX3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673273
On 09/14/2026 10:14 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:21:06 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>
>> On 09/14/2026 09:01 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 18:35:40 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>
>>>
>>> You just typed 398 words, 2496 characters including spaces just to show
>>> that you cannot answer the question.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, you have to remember again that since O.W. Richardson put it
>> "there are at least three constants 'c': light's, electrostatic's,
>> and electrodynamics'", then as with regards to Coulomb giving the
>> inverse-square attraction/repulsion of unlike/like charge, then that
>> magnetism is always involved with the kinetic and kinematic and
>> configurations of matter according to Einstein's "material points and
>> rigid rods", then that accounts of the strengths of various materials
>> their magnetic fields according to configuration are due structural
>> chemistry and material science, and resonance theory,
>> about wave/particle duality, that that's how the question's answerable.
>
> More words saying nothing. WHAT FORCE CONTINUALLY PUSHES TWO NEODYMIUM BAR
> MAGNETS TOGETHER?
>
> Why don't you simply say, "we don't know"?
>

Don't you even know what "science" is?

"Science" never "knows" something, only "isn't invalidated",
just like "statistics".

You can know theories, subject to limitations of definition
and implicits, about the deconstructive accounts of what
the real sorts of relations in the entire universe of mathematical
objects and space of language are, and estimate success of
scientific theories by how they're not falsified and moreso
how thoroughly they're not falsified under configurations
of energy & experiment in the entelechy the empirical,
you can "know" "facts", those are beliefs.

Usually an account is that potentials make sum-of-histories
sum-of-potentials then that potentials make least-action least-gradient
then that equilibrium is always both at equilibrium and seeking equilibrium.


Hm, have you ever heard of Leinard-Wiechert? (Or Lienerd or Lienard if
I've mis-spelled it.) That's usually given
as the utterly fundamental explanation of what makes laws of electrical
current in RLC circuits, while there are others, for example alternative
derivations of Leinard-Wiechert or about Fermi-holes
instead of electron-holes about test-charges in solid-state physics,
which are basically governed by their own fields and units their
theories, among empirical configurations of energy & experiment in
the space the entelechy the configuration space of all the energy
or otherwise the putative quantity of things, has that since LaGrange
everybody "knows" that it's overall a potentialistic setting that
causality governs.


So, in a _potentialistic_ setting instead of a _pull/push_ setting,
magnets _fall_ together, naturally, since the potential fields are
the real fields.




[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673292

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-15 00:03 +0000
Message-ID<18d555af6b635563$19790$1943410$4296dcc3@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673275
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 10:24:18 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:

> On 09/14/2026 10:14 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:21:06 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/14/2026 09:01 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 18:35:40 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> You just typed 398 words, 2496 characters including spaces just to
>>>> show that you cannot answer the question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well, you have to remember again that since O.W. Richardson put it
>>> "there are at least three constants 'c': light's, electrostatic's,
>>> and electrodynamics'", then as with regards to Coulomb giving the
>>> inverse-square attraction/repulsion of unlike/like charge, then that
>>> magnetism is always involved with the kinetic and kinematic and
>>> configurations of matter according to Einstein's "material points and
>>> rigid rods", then that accounts of the strengths of various materials
>>> their magnetic fields according to configuration are due structural
>>> chemistry and material science, and resonance theory,
>>> about wave/particle duality, that that's how the question's
>>> answerable.
>>
>> More words saying nothing. WHAT FORCE CONTINUALLY PUSHES TWO NEODYMIUM
>> BAR MAGNETS TOGETHER?
>>
>> Why don't you simply say, "we don't know"?
>>
>>
> Don't you even know what "science" is?
> 
> "Science" never "knows" something, only "isn't invalidated",
> just like "statistics".

Ah! The same old opinion of the philosopher who could never do the maths.
Science KNOWS that LIGHTNING in made of ELECTRICITY. Until recently, 
Philosophers thought the gods Thor and ZEUS were responsible. 

> You can know theories, subject to limitations of definition and
> implicits, about the deconstructive accounts of what the real sorts of
> relations in the entire universe of mathematical objects and space of
> language are, and estimate success of scientific theories by how they're
> not falsified and moreso how thoroughly they're not falsified under
> configurations of energy & experiment in the entelechy the empirical,
> you can "know" "facts", those are beliefs.
> 
> Usually an account is that potentials make sum-of-histories
> sum-of-potentials then that potentials make least-action least-gradient
> then that equilibrium is always both at equilibrium and seeking
> equilibrium.
> 
> 
> Hm, have you ever heard of Leinard-Wiechert? (Or Lienerd or Lienard if
> I've mis-spelled it.) That's usually given as the utterly fundamental
> explanation of what makes laws of electrical current in RLC circuits,
> while there are others, for example alternative derivations of
> Leinard-Wiechert or about Fermi-holes instead of electron-holes about
> test-charges in solid-state physics,
> which are basically governed by their own fields and units their
> theories, among empirical configurations of energy & experiment in the
> space the entelechy the configuration space of all the energy or
> otherwise the putative quantity of things, has that since LaGrange
> everybody "knows" that it's overall a potentialistic setting that
> causality governs.
> 
> 
> So, in a _potentialistic_ setting instead of a _pull/push_ setting,
> magnets _fall_ together, naturally, since the potential fields are the
> real fields.

Words, words...meaningful to some, I suppose...and beautifully presented.
My interpretation is that you are resorting to Murphy's second law to 
describe causality, "If something can happen, it will!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673294

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-14 17:22 -0700
Message-ID<Y62cnSIb7bxJEjX3nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673292
On 09/14/2026 05:03 PM, HenryWilson wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 10:24:18 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>
>> On 09/14/2026 10:14 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:21:06 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/14/2026 09:01 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 18:35:40 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> You just typed 398 words, 2496 characters including spaces just to
>>>>> show that you cannot answer the question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Well, you have to remember again that since O.W. Richardson put it
>>>> "there are at least three constants 'c': light's, electrostatic's,
>>>> and electrodynamics'", then as with regards to Coulomb giving the
>>>> inverse-square attraction/repulsion of unlike/like charge, then that
>>>> magnetism is always involved with the kinetic and kinematic and
>>>> configurations of matter according to Einstein's "material points and
>>>> rigid rods", then that accounts of the strengths of various materials
>>>> their magnetic fields according to configuration are due structural
>>>> chemistry and material science, and resonance theory,
>>>> about wave/particle duality, that that's how the question's
>>>> answerable.
>>>
>>> More words saying nothing. WHAT FORCE CONTINUALLY PUSHES TWO NEODYMIUM
>>> BAR MAGNETS TOGETHER?
>>>
>>> Why don't you simply say, "we don't know"?
>>>
>>>
>> Don't you even know what "science" is?
>>
>> "Science" never "knows" something, only "isn't invalidated",
>> just like "statistics".
>
> Ah! The same old opinion of the philosopher who could never do the maths.
> Science KNOWS that LIGHTNING in made of ELECTRICITY. Until recently,
> Philosophers thought the gods Thor and ZEUS were responsible.
>
>> You can know theories, subject to limitations of definition and
>> implicits, about the deconstructive accounts of what the real sorts of
>> relations in the entire universe of mathematical objects and space of
>> language are, and estimate success of scientific theories by how they're
>> not falsified and moreso how thoroughly they're not falsified under
>> configurations of energy & experiment in the entelechy the empirical,
>> you can "know" "facts", those are beliefs.
>>
>> Usually an account is that potentials make sum-of-histories
>> sum-of-potentials then that potentials make least-action least-gradient
>> then that equilibrium is always both at equilibrium and seeking
>> equilibrium.
>>
>>
>> Hm, have you ever heard of Leinard-Wiechert? (Or Lienerd or Lienard if
>> I've mis-spelled it.) That's usually given as the utterly fundamental
>> explanation of what makes laws of electrical current in RLC circuits,
>> while there are others, for example alternative derivations of
>> Leinard-Wiechert or about Fermi-holes instead of electron-holes about
>> test-charges in solid-state physics,
>> which are basically governed by their own fields and units their
>> theories, among empirical configurations of energy & experiment in the
>> space the entelechy the configuration space of all the energy or
>> otherwise the putative quantity of things, has that since LaGrange
>> everybody "knows" that it's overall a potentialistic setting that
>> causality governs.
>>
>>
>> So, in a _potentialistic_ setting instead of a _pull/push_ setting,
>> magnets _fall_ together, naturally, since the potential fields are the
>> real fields.
>
> Words, words...meaningful to some, I suppose...and beautifully presented.
> My interpretation is that you are resorting to Murphy's second law to
> describe causality, "If something can happen, it will!"
>

No, the past is history and what's done is done,
the future is not yet written.

Accounts of free will make for the mental lever
what can change macroscopic events.


Then, Murphy's law properly stated is "over time:
what _can_ go wrong, odds are, _will_ go wrong". Now, that's
usually a long time, yet, when mechanizing a system
that runs over unboundedly many inputs in a brief time,
it will go wrong.

s = f(ds)





[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673300

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-15 05:21 +0000
Message-ID<18d5670534cb196b$19795$1943410$4296dcc3@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673294
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 17:22:22 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:

> On 09/14/2026 05:03 PM, HenryWilson wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 10:24:18 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/14/2026 10:14 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 09:21:06 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/14/2026 09:01 AM, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 18:35:40 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> You just typed 398 words, 2496 characters including spaces just to
>>>>>> show that you cannot answer the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well, you have to remember again that since O.W. Richardson put it
>>>>> "there are at least three constants 'c': light's, electrostatic's,
>>>>> and electrodynamics'", then as with regards to Coulomb giving the
>>>>> inverse-square attraction/repulsion of unlike/like charge, then that
>>>>> magnetism is always involved with the kinetic and kinematic and
>>>>> configurations of matter according to Einstein's "material points
>>>>> and rigid rods", then that accounts of the strengths of various
>>>>> materials their magnetic fields according to configuration are due
>>>>> structural chemistry and material science, and resonance theory,
>>>>> about wave/particle duality, that that's how the question's
>>>>> answerable.
>>>>
>>>> More words saying nothing. WHAT FORCE CONTINUALLY PUSHES TWO
>>>> NEODYMIUM BAR MAGNETS TOGETHER?
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you simply say, "we don't know"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Don't you even know what "science" is?
>>>
>>> "Science" never "knows" something, only "isn't invalidated",
>>> just like "statistics".
>>
>> Ah! The same old opinion of the philosopher who could never do the
>> maths.
>> Science KNOWS that LIGHTNING in made of ELECTRICITY. Until recently,
>> Philosophers thought the gods Thor and ZEUS were responsible.
>>
>>> You can know theories, subject to limitations of definition and
>>> implicits, about the deconstructive accounts of what the real sorts of
>>> relations in the entire universe of mathematical objects and space of
>>> language are, and estimate success of scientific theories by how
>>> they're not falsified and moreso how thoroughly they're not falsified
>>> under configurations of energy & experiment in the entelechy the
>>> empirical, you can "know" "facts", those are beliefs.
>>>
>>> Usually an account is that potentials make sum-of-histories
>>> sum-of-potentials then that potentials make least-action
>>> least-gradient then that equilibrium is always both at equilibrium and
>>> seeking equilibrium.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hm, have you ever heard of Leinard-Wiechert? (Or Lienerd or Lienard if
>>> I've mis-spelled it.) That's usually given as the utterly fundamental
>>> explanation of what makes laws of electrical current in RLC circuits,
>>> while there are others, for example alternative derivations of
>>> Leinard-Wiechert or about Fermi-holes instead of electron-holes about
>>> test-charges in solid-state physics,
>>> which are basically governed by their own fields and units their
>>> theories, among empirical configurations of energy & experiment in the
>>> space the entelechy the configuration space of all the energy or
>>> otherwise the putative quantity of things, has that since LaGrange
>>> everybody "knows" that it's overall a potentialistic setting that
>>> causality governs.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, in a _potentialistic_ setting instead of a _pull/push_ setting,
>>> magnets _fall_ together, naturally, since the potential fields are the
>>> real fields.
>>
>> Words, words...meaningful to some, I suppose...and beautifully
>> presented.
>> My interpretation is that you are resorting to Murphy's second law to
>> describe causality, "If something can happen, it will!"
>>
>>
> No, the past is history and what's done is done,
> the future is not yet written.

But Murphy's 2nd law explains why there is life throughout the universe. 
DNA evolved here for the simple reason that it was possible. .so eventualy 
it did. It must do the same elsewhere wherever similar conditions prevail. 
In fact there must be planets out there supporting life that is millions 
of years ahead of ours. 
According to Einstein we will never know. According to Newton, when E=mc*2 
is turned into projetile energy, we can get to Andromeda at speeds many 
times greater than c. Remember how Einstein's methodology proved that 
nothing can travel faster than carrier pigeons. 

> Accounts of free will make for the mental lever what can change
> macroscopic events.

That is the interesting point.

> Then, Murphy's law properly stated is "over time:
> what _can_ go wrong, odds are, _will_ go wrong". Now, that's usually a
> long time, yet, when mechanizing a system that runs over unboundedly
> many inputs in a brief time,
> it will go wrong.

i should know. Murphy has been following me around since I was born.
 
> s = f(ds)

That could apply to a multitude of things...but I guess you mean the 
future is determined by variations in the present.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#673244

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2026-09-14 11:43 +0200
Message-ID<1s1f9kb.1qcsjmbp97saoN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#673233
HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> 
> > On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for example
> >>> the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of "asymptotic
> >>> freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and the strong
> >>> nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
> >> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
> >> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
> >> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though his
> >> account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
> >> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what makes
> >> the geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always
> >> instantaneously evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit,
> >> that accounts of gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like
> >> Fatio/LeSage's account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating
> >> conservation of energy everywhere.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
> > also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
> > "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
> > force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
> > 
> > 
> > Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian and
> > so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
> > potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
> > conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
> > place.
> 
> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between two
> Neodymium bar magnets?

It doesn't, as you should know.
You need electromagnetism and a lot of solid state physics for that.

> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves 
> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.

Ah, at last, a verifiable claim.
Please enlighten us further, how is this factor of 2 derived,
in which particular experiment is this factor of 2 measured?

Jan

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#673259

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-14 15:48 +0000
Message-ID<18d53aabff00008f$11656$1766332$4026de73@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673244
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 11:43:53 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:

>> > 
>> > Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian
>> > and so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>> > potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>> > conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>> > place.
>> 
>> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between
>> two Neodymium bar magnets?
> 
> It doesn't, as you should know.
> You need electromagnetism and a lot of solid state physics for that.

...and all it does is explain the MATHS of what forces do. It does not 
explain their existence.
 
>> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
>> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
>> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
> 
> Ah, at last, a verifiable claim.
> Please enlighten us further, how is this factor of 2 derived,
> in which particular experiment is this factor of 2 measured?

Bending of light by the sun...surely you have heard of that. 
 
> Jan

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#673260 — Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann)

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-14 08:52 -0700
SubjectRe: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann)
Message-ID<BwudnTa27Y6rhTX3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673244
On 09/14/2026 02:43 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for example
>>>>> the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of "asymptotic
>>>>> freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and the strong
>>>>> nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
>>>> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
>>>> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
>>>> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though his
>>>> account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
>>>> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what makes
>>>> the geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always
>>>> instantaneously evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit,
>>>> that accounts of gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like
>>>> Fatio/LeSage's account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating
>>>> conservation of energy everywhere.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
>>> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
>>> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
>>> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian and
>>> so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>>> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>>> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>>> place.
>>
>> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists between two
>> Neodymium bar magnets?
>
> It doesn't, as you should know.
> You need electromagnetism and a lot of solid state physics for that.
>
>> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
>> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
>> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
>
> Ah, at last, a verifiable claim.
> Please enlighten us further, how is this factor of 2 derived,
> in which particular experiment is this factor of 2 measured?
>
> Jan
>
>


Euh, "spurious" factors of two abound throughout the stack of
derivations that's always given, usually in the a-diabatic
and accounts like spring-mass systems.

For examples, Hooke's law, Clausius, Arrhenius, and the usual
formalisms of Kelvin and Planck, have these scattered about,
about factors of 2 (or 1/2) and about pi and pi/2 and 2pi in
the case of Planck.

These are given since otherwise they don't add up, while usually
enough they're considered negligeable, since then what results
is the integration over those terms the collection of their
infinitude into finite numbers of physics.

So, you must've heard of Zeno, about the archer and what's
resulting the geometric series which for original accounts
of methods of exhaustion gives sums of infinite series,
then most people have never heard of "Zeno's moving rows",
which give an account of segments in series an infinite sum
that adds up to _twice_ the naive account.

Then, Vitali the geometer and mathematician is usually given
as the reason why there are "non-measurable sets", yet what
he does is split the unit magnitude into infinitesimal bits
and sum them back to 2 (or, strictly between 1 and 3, in
a reductio exactly 2, in 1-dimension).

Then Hausdorff after Vitali makes the first account of
Vitali-Hausdorff the equi-decomposability of the 3-dimensional
ball, that later was taken up by Banach-Tarski in a set-theoretic
algebraic approach invoking non-measurable sets to make the
more publicized construction of Banach-Tarski, that Vitali-Hausdorff
already have one and it's geometrical.

The von Neumann account then in the 2-dimensional gives a number
of accounts of how these things come and go, about what happens
when you split a finite magnitude into infinitely-many like-size
pieces then attempt to re-assemble them,

So, the "doubling spaces" and "doubling measures" and "halving
spaces" and "halving measures" are accounts of non-standard
analysis that have been around since Zeno, and patches or
"the spurious" about them are present in derivations quite
universally.


Then, the "pi-ratio" also shows up directly in accounts like Planck's.








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#673266 — Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann)

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-14 09:25 -0700
SubjectRe: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann)
Message-ID<7HqdnWubUs-RvTX3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673260
On 09/14/2026 08:52 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 09/14/2026 02:43 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for example
>>>>>> the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of "asymptotic
>>>>>> freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and the strong
>>>>>> nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
>>>>> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
>>>>> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
>>>>> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though
>>>>> his
>>>>> account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
>>>>> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what makes
>>>>> the geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always
>>>>> instantaneously evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit,
>>>>> that accounts of gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like
>>>>> Fatio/LeSage's account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating
>>>>> conservation of energy everywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
>>>> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
>>>> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
>>>> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian
>>>> and
>>>> so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>>>> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>>>> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>>>> place.
>>>
>>> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists
>>> between two
>>> Neodymium bar magnets?
>>
>> It doesn't, as you should know.
>> You need electromagnetism and a lot of solid state physics for that.
>>
>>> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
>>> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
>>> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
>>
>> Ah, at last, a verifiable claim.
>> Please enlighten us further, how is this factor of 2 derived,
>> in which particular experiment is this factor of 2 measured?
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>
>
> Euh, "spurious" factors of two abound throughout the stack of
> derivations that's always given, usually in the a-diabatic
> and accounts like spring-mass systems.
>
> For examples, Hooke's law, Clausius, Arrhenius, and the usual
> formalisms of Kelvin and Planck, have these scattered about,
> about factors of 2 (or 1/2) and about pi and pi/2 and 2pi in
> the case of Planck.
>
> These are given since otherwise they don't add up, while usually
> enough they're considered negligeable, since then what results
> is the integration over those terms the collection of their
> infinitude into finite numbers of physics.
>
> So, you must've heard of Zeno, about the archer and what's
> resulting the geometric series which for original accounts
> of methods of exhaustion gives sums of infinite series,
> then most people have never heard of "Zeno's moving rows",
> which give an account of segments in series an infinite sum
> that adds up to _twice_ the naive account.
>
> Then, Vitali the geometer and mathematician is usually given
> as the reason why there are "non-measurable sets", yet what
> he does is split the unit magnitude into infinitesimal bits
> and sum them back to 2 (or, strictly between 1 and 3, in
> a reductio exactly 2, in 1-dimension).
>
> Then Hausdorff after Vitali makes the first account of
> Vitali-Hausdorff the equi-decomposability of the 3-dimensional
> ball, that later was taken up by Banach-Tarski in a set-theoretic
> algebraic approach invoking non-measurable sets to make the
> more publicized construction of Banach-Tarski, that Vitali-Hausdorff
> already have one and it's geometrical.
>
> The von Neumann account then in the 2-dimensional gives a number
> of accounts of how these things come and go, about what happens
> when you split a finite magnitude into infinitely-many like-size
> pieces then attempt to re-assemble them,
>
> So, the "doubling spaces" and "doubling measures" and "halving
> spaces" and "halving measures" are accounts of non-standard
> analysis that have been around since Zeno, and patches or
> "the spurious" about them are present in derivations quite
> universally.
>
>
> Then, the "pi-ratio" also shows up directly in accounts like Planck's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


https://www.youtube.com/@rossfinlayson

"Finlaysonian"

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#673277 — Re: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann)

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-14 10:45 -0700
SubjectRe: Proof That Light Speed is Not c in Empty Space (Zeno, Vitali, Hausdorff, von Neumann)
Message-ID<iw6dnV95lIyDrjX3nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#673266
On 09/14/2026 09:25 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 09/14/2026 08:52 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 09/14/2026 02:43 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 08:25:09 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/12/2026 07:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GR and QM disagree about 120 orders of decimal magnitude, for
>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>> the "function freedom" accounts, then that the account of
>>>>>>> "asymptotic
>>>>>>> freedom" then makes for unifying the fall-gravity and the strong
>>>>>>> nuclear force and where the atom is the real graviton.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Einstein's way of saying that GR doesn't intend to constantly violate
>>>>>> conservation of energy everywhere is calling it an "inertial-system",
>>>>>> which is a good idea since then the massy bodies being inert aren't
>>>>>> constantly violating conservation of energy everywhere, then though
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> account of the geodesy as "follow-gravity" after Newton's
>>>>>> "pull-gravity" does not have an account of the mechanism of what
>>>>>> makes
>>>>>> the geodesy, only that it's always straight-down and always
>>>>>> instantaneously evaluated everywhere, and is Newtonian in the limit,
>>>>>> that accounts of gravity that aren't a "fall-gravity" a bit un-like
>>>>>> Fatio/LeSage's account of "push-gravity" are constantly violating
>>>>>> conservation of energy everywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The "fall gravity" is not dissimilar to accounts of "shadow gravity"
>>>>> also known as "umbral gravity", and it sometimes is under accounts of
>>>>> "super-gravity", though that's overloaded since accounts like "fifth
>>>>> force" and so on, not to be confused with "super-force".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyways a true "fall-gravity" is about the only way for the Mach-ian
>>>>> and
>>>>> so on, that the usual account of Lagrange that the classical and
>>>>> potential forces simply sum to equate to zero and calling that
>>>>> conservation of energy doesn't explain what makes those in the first
>>>>> place.
>>>>
>>>> How does Einstein's GR explain the huge pull-force that exists
>>>> between two
>>>> Neodymium bar magnets?
>>>
>>> It doesn't, as you should know.
>>> You need electromagnetism and a lot of solid state physics for that.
>>>
>>>> His whole 'constant c spacetime' concept is just a nonsensical way of
>>>> redefining the problem. It is ridiculously complicated, achieves
>>>> nothing..and ends up with an error of 2.
>>>
>>> Ah, at last, a verifiable claim.
>>> Please enlighten us further, how is this factor of 2 derived,
>>> in which particular experiment is this factor of 2 measured?
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Euh, "spurious" factors of two abound throughout the stack of
>> derivations that's always given, usually in the a-diabatic
>> and accounts like spring-mass systems.
>>
>> For examples, Hooke's law, Clausius, Arrhenius, and the usual
>> formalisms of Kelvin and Planck, have these scattered about,
>> about factors of 2 (or 1/2) and about pi and pi/2 and 2pi in
>> the case of Planck.
>>
>> These are given since otherwise they don't add up, while usually
>> enough they're considered negligeable, since then what results
>> is the integration over those terms the collection of their
>> infinitude into finite numbers of physics.
>>
>> So, you must've heard of Zeno, about the archer and what's
>> resulting the geometric series which for original accounts
>> of methods of exhaustion gives sums of infinite series,
>> then most people have never heard of "Zeno's moving rows",
>> which give an account of segments in series an infinite sum
>> that adds up to _twice_ the naive account.
>>
>> Then, Vitali the geometer and mathematician is usually given
>> as the reason why there are "non-measurable sets", yet what
>> he does is split the unit magnitude into infinitesimal bits
>> and sum them back to 2 (or, strictly between 1 and 3, in
>> a reductio exactly 2, in 1-dimension).
>>
>> Then Hausdorff after Vitali makes the first account of
>> Vitali-Hausdorff the equi-decomposability of the 3-dimensional
>> ball, that later was taken up by Banach-Tarski in a set-theoretic
>> algebraic approach invoking non-measurable sets to make the
>> more publicized construction of Banach-Tarski, that Vitali-Hausdorff
>> already have one and it's geometrical.
>>
>> The von Neumann account then in the 2-dimensional gives a number
>> of accounts of how these things come and go, about what happens
>> when you split a finite magnitude into infinitely-many like-size
>> pieces then attempt to re-assemble them,
>>
>> So, the "doubling spaces" and "doubling measures" and "halving
>> spaces" and "halving measures" are accounts of non-standard
>> analysis that have been around since Zeno, and patches or
>> "the spurious" about them are present in derivations quite
>> universally.
>>
>>
>> Then, the "pi-ratio" also shows up directly in accounts like Planck's.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/@rossfinlayson
>
> "Finlaysonian"
>
>


How about "Cesaro-summability" and Fejer sums in Fourier-style analysis.

The Fourier-style analysis is usually given its own status as a
super-classical result in infinitary reasoning.


Then accounts like Heine/Cantor in systems-of-inequalities of
expressions in arithmetic/geometric/harmonic means have distinctness
results besides uniqueness results if one goes looking.



Also there are accounts of the path integral since Schwinger and Tomonaga.



Factors of two abound, ....


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#673160

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2026-09-12 12:59 +0200
Message-ID<1s1bn76.b1msrk13aw3g7N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#673143
HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 11:26:37 +0300, Mikko wrote:
> 
> > On 10/09/2026 20:52, HenryWilson wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Sep 2026 11:18:43 +0300, Mikko wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On 10/09/2026 02:35, HenryWilson wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:12:25 +0300, Mikko wrote:
> >> 
> 
> >>> They say that the speed of light is independent of its source (if they
> >>> is any, they don't say that light always has a source).
> >>>
> >>>   > That would have conflicted with Aether theories so Maxwell would>
> >>> have been rather mystified.
> >>>
> >>> Fortunately nothing that was known at that time conflicts with aether
> >>> theory
> >> 
> >> That is probably correct. The whole of physics was based on its
> >> existence.
> >> That's why Einstein's theory was snapped up after the MMX proved there
> >> was no Aether.
> > 
> > Michelson-Morley experiment did not prove that there is no aether. It
> > only proved that something was not understood. Lorentz and other could
> > explain the result assuming that there is an ether. But Poincaré and
> > Einstein observed that the the same can be explained with alnost the
> > same explanation without any aether.
> 
> Yes, it is called magic.
> 
> >> Einstein's mathematical skullduggery saved a lot of damaged
> >> reputations.
> > 
> > EInstein's mathematics is valid. Mathematicians have inproved the
> > presentation and connected relativity to rigorous mathematical theories.
> It is completely imaginary. It works in many practical situations...but
> goes terribly wrong in others.

There you go again.
Please supply one instance of this 'terrible wrongness'.
So an -experimental- outcome that falsifies special relativity,

Jan
(crickets)

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#673161

FromMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2026-09-12 13:04 +0200
Message-ID<18d48e0372ff5c28$49080$900885$c2365abb@news.newsdemon.com>
In reply to#673160
On 9/12/2026 12:59 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 11:26:37 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/09/2026 20:52, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Sep 2026 11:18:43 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/09/2026 02:35, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:12:25 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>>> They say that the speed of light is independent of its source (if they
>>>>> is any, they don't say that light always has a source).
>>>>>
>>>>>    > That would have conflicted with Aether theories so Maxwell would>
>>>>> have been rather mystified.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately nothing that was known at that time conflicts with aether
>>>>> theory
>>>>
>>>> That is probably correct. The whole of physics was based on its
>>>> existence.
>>>> That's why Einstein's theory was snapped up after the MMX proved there
>>>> was no Aether.
>>>
>>> Michelson-Morley experiment did not prove that there is no aether. It
>>> only proved that something was not understood. Lorentz and other could
>>> explain the result assuming that there is an ether. But Poincaré and
>>> Einstein observed that the the same can be explained with alnost the
>>> same explanation without any aether.
>>
>> Yes, it is called magic.
>>
>>>> Einstein's mathematical skullduggery saved a lot of damaged
>>>> reputations.
>>>
>>> EInstein's mathematics is valid. Mathematicians have inproved the
>>> presentation and connected relativity to rigorous mathematical theories.
>> It is completely imaginary. It works in many practical situations...but
>> goes terribly wrong in others.
> 
> There you go again.
> Please supply one instance of this 'terrible wrongness'.
> So an -experimental- outcome that falsifies special relativity,

The mumble of your divine idiot was not even consistent,
and., of course, anyone can check GPS, the clocks keep
indicating t'=t just like they always did.

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#673234

FromHenryWilson <Hgw@home.com>
Date2026-09-13 23:28 +0000
Message-ID<18d50526c3748804$18960$1943410$4296dcc3@news.newsgroupdirect.com>
In reply to#673160
On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 12:59:11 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 11:26:37 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>> 
>> > On 10/09/2026 20:52, HenryWilson wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 10 Sep 2026 11:18:43 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On 10/09/2026 02:35, HenryWilson wrote:
>> >>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:12:25 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>> They say that the speed of light is independent of its source (if
>> >>> they is any, they don't say that light always has a source).
>> >>>
>> >>>   > That would have conflicted with Aether theories so Maxwell
>> >>>   > would>
>> >>> have been rather mystified.
>> >>>
>> >>> Fortunately nothing that was known at that time conflicts with
>> >>> aether theory
>> >> 
>> >> That is probably correct. The whole of physics was based on its
>> >> existence.
>> >> That's why Einstein's theory was snapped up after the MMX proved
>> >> there was no Aether.
>> > 
>> > Michelson-Morley experiment did not prove that there is no aether. It
>> > only proved that something was not understood. Lorentz and other
>> > could explain the result assuming that there is an ether. But
>> > Poincaré and Einstein observed that the the same can be explained
>> > with alnost the same explanation without any aether.
>> 
>> Yes, it is called magic.
>> 
>> >> Einstein's mathematical skullduggery saved a lot of damaged
>> >> reputations.
>> > 
>> > EInstein's mathematics is valid. Mathematicians have inproved the
>> > presentation and connected relativity to rigorous mathematical
>> > theories.
>> It is completely imaginary. It works in many practical situations...but
>> goes terribly wrong in others.
> 
> There you go again.
> Please supply one instance of this 'terrible wrongness'.
> So an -experimental- outcome that falsifies special relativity,

You will have to read my book to learn about those. However I will point 
out that it is essentially the interpretation of SR that is largely to 
blame rather than the theory itself. Contrary to what is generally 
believed, SR does not claim that light's speed in space is invariant. It 
is merely a mathematical trick that makes MEASURED LIGHT SPEED always 
appear to equal c, in a particular observer's frame. Hence Einstein cannot 
really be blamed for the fact that the whole of Astronomy is wrong. It has 
assumed constant light speed for 3000 years.
 
> Jan (crickets)

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#673243

FromMikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Date2026-09-14 11:41 +0300
Message-ID<1188bvg$1bquf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#673234
On 14/09/2026 02:28, HenryWilson wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2026 12:59:11 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> 
>> HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Sep 2026 11:26:37 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/09/2026 20:52, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 10 Sep 2026 11:18:43 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/09/2026 02:35, HenryWilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 12:12:25 +0300, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> They say that the speed of light is independent of its source (if
>>>>>> they is any, they don't say that light always has a source).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    > That would have conflicted with Aether theories so Maxwell
>>>>>>    > would>
>>>>>> have been rather mystified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately nothing that was known at that time conflicts with
>>>>>> aether theory
>>>>>
>>>>> That is probably correct. The whole of physics was based on its
>>>>> existence.
>>>>> That's why Einstein's theory was snapped up after the MMX proved
>>>>> there was no Aether.
>>>>
>>>> Michelson-Morley experiment did not prove that there is no aether. It
>>>> only proved that something was not understood. Lorentz and other
>>>> could explain the result assuming that there is an ether. But
>>>> Poincaré and Einstein observed that the the same can be explained
>>>> with alnost the same explanation without any aether.
>>>
>>> Yes, it is called magic.
>>>
>>>>> Einstein's mathematical skullduggery saved a lot of damaged
>>>>> reputations.
>>>>
>>>> EInstein's mathematics is valid. Mathematicians have inproved the
>>>> presentation and connected relativity to rigorous mathematical
>>>> theories.
>>> It is completely imaginary. It works in many practical situations...but
>>> goes terribly wrong in others.
>>
>> There you go again.
>> Please supply one instance of this 'terrible wrongness'.
>> So an -experimental- outcome that falsifies special relativity,
> 
> You will have to read my book to learn about those.

The only thing one can learn from a book written by a stupid ignorant
author is stupidity.

-- 
Mikko

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