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Time is Relative

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  Time is Relative The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-06 15:25 -0700
    Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 15:33 -0700
      Re: Time is Relative Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-07 04:06 +0200
        Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 19:19 -0700
          Re: Time is Relative Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-07 09:54 +0000
            Re: Time is Relative Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-08-07 18:56 +0200
              Re: Time is Relative Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-08 11:00 +0000
                Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-08 11:41 -0700
            Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-07 10:33 -0700
              Re: Time is Relative Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-08 19:30 +0000
                Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-08 18:28 -0700
                  Re: Time is Relative Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.ho> - 2018-08-11 10:40 +0000
                    Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-11 11:11 -0700
                      Re: Time is Relative Lovu Biftek <ufeli@fupuks.cl> - 2018-08-13 21:27 +0000
                        Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-13 18:07 -0700
                          Re: Time is Relative Brandi Hofmann <ohifu@awdwf.nr> - 2018-08-30 22:46 +0000
                            Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-30 15:53 -0700
                              Re: Time is Relative "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-30 15:58 -0700
                                Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-30 16:02 -0700
                                  Re: Time is Relative "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2018-08-30 16:45 -0700
                              Re: Time is Relative Brandi Hofmann <ohifu@awdwf.nr> - 2018-08-31 11:42 +0000
                            Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-30 15:54 -0700
                              Re: Time is Relative Brandi Hofmann <ohifu@awdwf.nr> - 2018-08-31 11:39 +0000
          Re: Time is Relative Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 00:07 +0200
    Re: Time is Relative The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-07 09:14 -0700
      Re: Time is Relative Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 00:09 +0200
        Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-07 17:45 -0700
        Re: Time is Relative The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-07 20:21 -0700
          Re: Time is Relative Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 06:11 +0200
          Re: Time is Relative mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-07 21:17 -0700

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#467146 — Time is Relative

i seem to have heard that before...

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#467149

On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 3:25:26 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> i seem to have heard that before...

I have my own time rate slow by the speed I move...
Speed is changing position in dimension.
change of position Rate and energy correspond...

Mitchell Raemsch

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#467160

mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 3:25:26 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
>> i seem to have heard that before...
> 
> I have my own time rate slow by the speed I move...

If that were the case, you would observe the watch on your wrist
to tick differently if you are moving relative to something else.

Evidently that is NOT the case.

In special relativity, one finds:

- Lorentz transformation:

  x' = γ (x − v t)
  y' = y
  z' = z
  t' = γ (t − v∕c² x)

- Spacetime metric:

  ∆x' = γ (∆x − v ∆t)
  ∆y' = ∆y
  ∆z' = ∆z
  ∆t' = γ (∆t − v∕c² ∆x)

  dx' = γ (dx − v dt)
  dy' = dy
  dz' = dz
  dt' = γ (dt − v∕c² dx)

  ds² = c²dt² − dx² − dy² − dz² = c²dt'² − dx'² − dy'² − dz'² = c²dτ².

- Time dilation:

  c² −  dx²∕dt² −  dy²∕dt² −  dz²∕dt² = c² dτ²∕dt²
  c² − (dx∕dt)² − (dy∕dt)² − (dz∕dt)² = c² dτ²∕dt²

  u⃗ := d∕dt x⃗ = (dx∕dt, dy∕dt, dz∕dt)    3-velocity

  c² −  (u_x)² − (u_y)² − (u_z)²   = c² dτ²∕dt²
  c² − [(u_x)² + (u_y)² + (u_z)²]  = c² dτ²∕dt²
                          c² − u²  = c² dτ²∕dt²
                        1 − u²∕c²  =    dτ²∕dt²
                             1∕γ²  =   (dτ ∕dt)²
                             1∕γ   =    dτ∕dt

                               dt  = γ dτ,

                               dt  = dτ∕√(1 − v²∕c²),

so if v = 0 (the watch on your wrist is not moving relative to you)

                               dt  = dτ∕√1
                               dt  = dτ.

So YOUR OWN coordinate time is just PROPER time REGARDLESS whether and how
you/your watch/clocks AT REST RELATIVE TO YOU (observer) move relative to
SOMETHING ELSE. ∎

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#467164

On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 7:06:08 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 3:25:26 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> >> i seem to have heard that before...
> > 
> > I have my own time rate slow by the speed I move...
> 
> If that were the case, you would observe the watch on your wrist
> to tick differently if you are moving relative to something else.
> 
> Evidently that is NOT the case.
> 
> In special relativity, one finds:
> 
> - Lorentz transformation:
> 
>   x' = γ (x − v t)
>   y' = y
>   z' = z
>   t' = γ (t − v∕c² x)
> 
> - Spacetime metric:
> 
>   ∆x' = γ (∆x − v ∆t)
>   ∆y' = ∆y
>   ∆z' = ∆z
>   ∆t' = γ (∆t − v∕c² ∆x)
> 
>   dx' = γ (dx − v dt)
>   dy' = dy
>   dz' = dz
>   dt' = γ (dt − v∕c² dx)
> 
>   ds² = c²dt² − dx² − dy² − dz² = c²dt'² − dx'² − dy'² − dz'² = c²dτ².
> 
> - Time dilation:
> 
>   c² −  dx²∕dt² −  dy²∕dt² −  dz²∕dt² = c² dτ²∕dt²
>   c² − (dx∕dt)² − (dy∕dt)² − (dz∕dt)² = c² dτ²∕dt²
> 
>   u⃗ := d∕dt x⃗ = (dx∕dt, dy∕dt, dz∕dt)    3-velocity
> 
>   c² −  (u_x)² − (u_y)² − (u_z)²   = c² dτ²∕dt²
>   c² − [(u_x)² + (u_y)² + (u_z)²]  = c² dτ²∕dt²
>                           c² − u²  = c² dτ²∕dt²
>                         1 − u²∕c²  =    dτ²∕dt²
>                              1∕γ²  =   (dτ ∕dt)²
>                              1∕γ   =    dτ∕dt
> 
>                                dt  = γ dτ,
> 
>                                dt  = dτ∕√(1 − v²∕c²),
> 
> so if v = 0 (the watch on your wrist is not moving relative to you)
> 
>                                dt  = dτ∕√1
>                                dt  = dτ.
> 
> So YOUR OWN coordinate time is just PROPER time REGARDLESS whether and how
> you/your watch/clocks AT REST RELATIVE TO YOU (observer) move relative to
> SOMETHING ELSE. ∎
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the
backward appearance of motion around my real motion...

Mitchell Raemsch

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#467188

mitchrae3323 wrote:

>> PointedEars 
>> Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per
>> E-Mail.
> 
> Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the backward
> appearance of motion around my real motion...

You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we speak.

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#467224

Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> Wrote in message:
> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> 
>>> PointedEars 
>>> Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per
>>> E-Mail.
>> 
>> Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the backward
>> appearance of motion around my real motion...
> 
> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we speak.
> 

Any motion in context of physics is  with respect to something,
 not on its own. It is nothing specific to theory of
 relativity.

This is what is meant  by the word relative.

There is no absolute  speed value without relation to the reference.
Even vacuum light speed is always related to a coordinate system.

That applies as well to the human body in subjective state of motion.

The particular parts of the body move relatively wrt the other
 parts  and wrt the environment.

-- 
Libor Striz aka Poutnik ( a pilgrim/wanderer/wayfarer)

"Humour is the only effective weapon against stupidity."
Miloš Forman


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

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#467283

Libor Striz wrote:

> Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> Wrote in message:
>> mitchrae3323 wrote:
>>>> PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine
>>>> Kopien per E-Mail.
>>> 
>>> Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the backward
>>> appearance of motion around my real motion...
>> 
>> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we speak.
>
> Any motion in context of physics is  with respect to something,
>  not on its own. It is nothing specific to theory of relativity.
> This is what is meant  by the word relative.

Probably not. But I was making a remark regarding swimming backwards, 
which I love. I am a capitalist, enjoying my wealth.

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#467321

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 4:01:01 AM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
> Libor Striz wrote:
> 
> > Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> Wrote in message:
> >> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> >>>> PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine
> >>>> Kopien per E-Mail.
> >>> 
> >>> Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the backward
> >>> appearance of motion around my real motion...
> >> 
> >> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we speak.
> >
> > Any motion in context of physics is  with respect to something,
> >  not on its own. It is nothing specific to theory of relativity.
> > This is what is meant  by the word relative.
> 
> Probably not. But I was making a remark regarding swimming backwards, 
> which I love. I am a capitalist, enjoying my wealth.

Slow down and the opposite appearance of motion slows down
around you.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#467234

On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 at 2:54:27 AM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> 
> >> PointedEars 
> >> Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per
> >> E-Mail.
> > 
> > Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the backward
> > appearance of motion around my real motion...
> 
> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we speak.

The real motion creates a backward appearance around it.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#467330

mitchrae3323 wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 at 2:54:27 AM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
>> mitchrae3323 wrote:
>> 
>> >> PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte
>> >> keine Kopien per E-Mail.
>> > 
>> > Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the backward
>> > appearance of motion around my real motion...
>> 
>> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we speak.
> 
> The real motion creates a backward appearance around it.

Of course not. Or you don't know what the "around" stands for. Short 
answer: 360⁰

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#467369

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 12:30:44 PM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> 
> > On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 at 2:54:27 AM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
> >> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> >> 
> >> >> PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte
> >> >> keine Kopien per E-Mail.
> >> > 
> >> > Moron PE. I can move myself. The only relative is the backward
> >> > appearance of motion around my real motion...
> >> 
> >> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we speak.
> > 
> > The real motion creates a backward appearance around it.
> 
> Of course not. Or you don't know what the "around" stands for. Short 
> answer: 360⁰

Wherever you look beginning your own real motion
the opposite or relative appearance is observed around you.
What is the point of turning 360?

Mitchell Raemsch

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#467577

mitchrae3323 wrote:

>> >> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we
>> >> speak.
>> > 
>> > The real motion creates a backward appearance around it.
>> 
>> Of course not. Or you don't know what the "around" stands for. Short
>> answer: 360⁰
> 
> Wherever you look beginning your own real motion the opposite or
> relative appearance is observed around you.
> What is the point of turning 360?

You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no "backward".

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#467593

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 3:40:47 AM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> 
> >> >> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we
> >> >> speak.
> >> > 
> >> > The real motion creates a backward appearance around it.
> >> 
> >> Of course not. Or you don't know what the "around" stands for. Short
> >> answer: 360⁰
> > 
> > Wherever you look beginning your own real motion the opposite or
> > relative appearance is observed around you.
> > What is the point of turning 360?
> 
> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no "backward".

There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
where you look. Everywhere around you; you observe the opposite
appearance created by your real motion.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#467767

mitchrae3323 wrote:

> On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 3:40:47 AM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
>> mitchrae3323 wrote:
>> 
>> >> >> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we
>> >> >> speak.
>> >> > 
>> >> > The real motion creates a backward appearance around it.
>> >> 
>> >> Of course not. Or you don't know what the "around" stands for. Short
>> >> answer: 360⁰
>> > 
>> > Wherever you look beginning your own real motion the opposite or
>> > relative appearance is observed around you.
>> > What is the point of turning 360?
>> 
>> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no "backward".
> 
> There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
> where you look. 

Of course it does, when you change the orientation of your head, the 
buildings are moving accordingly inversely. Can't you even visualize that??

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#467785

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 2:27:58 PM UTC-7, Lovu Biftek wrote:
> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> 
> > On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 3:40:47 AM UTC-7, Owen Scharff wrote:
> >> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> >> 
> >> >> >> You made a valid poing. I am swimming backwards right now, as we
> >> >> >> speak.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > The real motion creates a backward appearance around it.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Of course not. Or you don't know what the "around" stands for. Short
> >> >> answer: 360⁰
> >> > 
> >> > Wherever you look beginning your own real motion the opposite or
> >> > relative appearance is observed around you.
> >> > What is the point of turning 360?
> >> 
> >> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no "backward".
> > 
> > There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
> > where you look. 
> 
> Of course it does, when you change the orientation of your head, the 
> buildings are moving accordingly inversely. Can't you even visualize that??

No. Your own real motion creates that opposite appearance.

And when you begin to move yourself there will be an opposite weight...

for example getting onto the freeway there is enough to sense.

There is opposite weight with your accelerating body and car seat...

Mitchell Raemsch

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#469951

mitchrae3323 wrote:

>> >> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no
>> >> "backward".
>> > 
>> > There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
>> > where you look.
>> 
>> Of course it does, when you change the orientation of your head, the
>> buildings are moving accordingly inversely. Can't you even visualize
>> that??
> 
> No. Your own real motion creates that opposite appearance.
> And when you begin to move yourself there will be an opposite weight...
> for example getting onto the freeway there is enough to sense. 
> There is opposite weight with your accelerating body and car seat...

Negative. Moving inside a dark hall, training for the next moon landing, 
where is your opposite appearance?

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#469954

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 3:46:12 PM UTC-7, Brandi Hofmann wrote:
> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> 
> >> >> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no
> >> >> "backward".
> >> > 
> >> > There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
> >> > where you look.
> >> 
> >> Of course it does, when you change the orientation of your head, the
> >> buildings are moving accordingly inversely. Can't you even visualize
> >> that??
> > 
> > No. Your own real motion creates that opposite appearance.
> > And when you begin to move yourself there will be an opposite weight...
> > for example getting onto the freeway there is enough to sense. 
> > There is opposite weight with your accelerating body and car seat...
> 
> Negative. Moving inside a dark hall, training for the next moon landing, 
> where is your opposite appearance?

Darkness?
It occurs around you regardless of whether you have light Roy Masters...
When I begin to move things directly ahead appear to move toward me.
To the right or left is the backward appearance. Looking behind they
are appearance moving behind me...

Mitchell Raemsch

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#469958

On 8/30/2018 3:53 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 3:46:12 PM UTC-7, Brandi Hofmann wrote:
>> mitchrae3323 wrote:
>>
>>>>>> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no
>>>>>> "backward".
>>>>>
>>>>> There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
>>>>> where you look.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it does, when you change the orientation of your head, the
>>>> buildings are moving accordingly inversely. Can't you even visualize
>>>> that??
>>>
>>> No. Your own real motion creates that opposite appearance.
>>> And when you begin to move yourself there will be an opposite weight...
>>> for example getting onto the freeway there is enough to sense.
>>> There is opposite weight with your accelerating body and car seat...
>>
>> Negative. Moving inside a dark hall, training for the next moon landing,
>> where is your opposite appearance?
> 
> Darkness?
> It occurs around you regardless of whether you have light Roy Masters...
> When I begin to move things directly ahead appear to move toward me.

Question to a little kid on a train. Are we moving, or is the ground moving?



> To the right or left is the backward appearance. Looking behind they
> are appearance moving behind me...

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#469959

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 3:58:58 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 8/30/2018 3:53 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 3:46:12 PM UTC-7, Brandi Hofmann wrote:
> >> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no
> >>>>>> "backward".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
> >>>>> where you look.
> >>>>
> >>>> Of course it does, when you change the orientation of your head, the
> >>>> buildings are moving accordingly inversely. Can't you even visualize
> >>>> that??
> >>>
> >>> No. Your own real motion creates that opposite appearance.
> >>> And when you begin to move yourself there will be an opposite weight...
> >>> for example getting onto the freeway there is enough to sense.
> >>> There is opposite weight with your accelerating body and car seat...
> >>
> >> Negative. Moving inside a dark hall, training for the next moon landing,
> >> where is your opposite appearance?
> > 
> > Darkness?
> > It occurs around you regardless of whether you have light Roy Masters...
> > When I begin to move things directly ahead appear to move toward me.
> 
> Question to a little kid on a train. Are we moving, or is the ground moving?

The train's real motion makes the opposite motion appearance of the
ground to it. When the train begins its own motion it has also an
opposite weight that the ground doesn't have.

> 
> 
> > To the right or left is the backward appearance. Looking behind they
> > are appearance moving behind me...

Mitchell Raemsch

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#469967

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 4:02:40 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 3:58:58 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > On 8/30/2018 3:53 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 3:46:12 PM UTC-7, Brandi Hofmann wrote:
> > >> mitchrae3323 wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>>> You said "around", not me. If you turn around there is no
> > >>>>>> "backward".
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> There is changing direction. I say around because it doesn't matter
> > >>>>> where you look.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Of course it does, when you change the orientation of your head, the
> > >>>> buildings are moving accordingly inversely. Can't you even visualize
> > >>>> that??
> > >>>
> > >>> No. Your own real motion creates that opposite appearance.
> > >>> And when you begin to move yourself there will be an opposite weight...
> > >>> for example getting onto the freeway there is enough to sense.
> > >>> There is opposite weight with your accelerating body and car seat...
> > >>
> > >> Negative. Moving inside a dark hall, training for the next moon landing,
> > >> where is your opposite appearance?
> > > 
> > > Darkness?
> > > It occurs around you regardless of whether you have light Roy Masters...
> > > When I begin to move things directly ahead appear to move toward me.
> > 
> > Question to a little kid on a train. Are we moving, or is the ground moving?
> 
> The train's real motion makes the opposite motion appearance of the
> ground to it. When the train begins its own motion it has also an
> opposite weight that the ground doesn't have.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > > To the right or left is the backward appearance. Looking behind they
> > > are appearance moving behind me...
> 
> Mitchell Raemsch

The train's engine converts potential to motive force 
via work and the train moves everyone in it right along.

Now, stack the trains.  

If the train accelerates smoothly they move along, 
if the train accelerates jerkily they fall off.

Resp. decelerates.

Seems a good idea to frame in work and potential 
before solving in position and momentum.

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