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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #464266 > unrolled thread

A suggested time dilation experiment

Started byEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
First post2018-07-13 10:10 -0700
Last post2018-07-31 21:25 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 694 — 40 participants

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Contents

  A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-13 10:10 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-13 10:53 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-13 11:09 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-13 11:04 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-13 11:05 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-13 12:55 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-22 18:15 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-13 12:25 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-13 13:16 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-13 14:56 -0700
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 09:52 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment KronosPrime@outlook.com - 2018-07-27 13:16 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 13:45 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-27 14:01 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 14:14 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 09:37 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-28 19:51 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@dwipdn.dv> - 2018-07-29 14:47 +0000
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-29 12:51 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 13:04 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-13 12:42 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-13 13:06 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-13 13:26 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-13 15:22 -0500
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-13 13:58 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-13 14:30 -0700
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 09:39 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-14 10:07 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 10:41 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-14 11:04 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 12:56 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-14 13:10 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 13:36 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 13:52 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-14 13:58 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-14 23:20 +0200
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-14 15:10 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-14 11:34 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 13:08 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-14 18:07 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-15 10:44 +0200
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-15 05:45 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-15 15:32 +0200
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-15 15:33 +0200
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-15 06:58 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-07-15 09:40 -0400
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-15 07:05 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-07-15 10:15 -0400
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-15 07:36 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 19:14 +0000
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 09:43 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 09:42 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 12:48 -0400
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 10:35 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-15 17:51 -0500
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-14 18:17 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 10:02 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-15 10:54 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 13:05 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Olin Hayton <toa@nahslao.nh> - 2018-07-15 20:19 +0000
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-15 17:20 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-16 08:12 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-22 18:03 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-22 23:19 -0500
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-22 21:35 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-23 09:53 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-23 17:05 +0000
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-23 19:44 +0200
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwindn.dp> - 2018-07-27 12:04 +0000
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-23 14:59 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-23 09:18 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-15 12:59 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 13:50 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 14:19 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-15 14:56 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-15 18:04 -0500
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-16 10:34 +0200
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-16 04:17 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-16 13:09 -0500
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-16 12:07 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-16 08:10 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-16 10:02 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-16 13:13 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-16 14:33 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-16 23:52 -0700
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-17 10:20 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-17 10:27 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-15 18:02 -0500
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-14 22:30 -0500
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 10:27 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-15 11:04 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 13:08 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Olin Hayton <toa@nahslao.nh> - 2018-07-15 20:16 +0000
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-15 18:23 -0500
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-20 10:57 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-13 15:28 -0700
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-13 22:28 -0700
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 10:11 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-14 10:34 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-14 10:42 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-14 10:54 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-14 10:42 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-20 11:14 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 11:46 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-20 11:54 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-21 13:32 +0000
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-20 13:35 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-20 13:47 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-20 23:29 +0200
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-21 13:30 +0000
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-21 13:45 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-13 22:34 -0500
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-14 09:15 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-14 23:26 -0500
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-15 00:18 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-15 01:17 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-15 11:43 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 05:49 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-15 09:22 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 17:21 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-16 08:59 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-16 09:54 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-22 17:57 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-23 03:12 +0200
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-23 02:28 +0000
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-14 10:33 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-16 10:07 -0500
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-16 08:24 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-16 08:40 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-17 22:58 +0000
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-17 17:33 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-17 18:02 +0000
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-23 10:37 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-24 00:36 -0500
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-07-14 00:40 -0400
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-14 00:11 -0500
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Olin Hayton <toa@nahslao.nh> - 2018-07-14 15:05 +0000
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-15 20:05 +0200
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-15 13:27 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Olin Hayton <toa@nahslao.nh> - 2018-07-15 20:28 +0000
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 14:04 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-15 23:23 +0200
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 14:27 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-15 14:36 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-16 00:09 +0200
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-15 16:06 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-15 16:22 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-16 08:00 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-16 08:36 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-15 14:20 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-15 18:36 -0500
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-15 16:55 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-16 16:21 +0200
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-16 08:19 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-17 19:17 +0200
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-17 10:44 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-17 17:50 +0000
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-17 17:56 +0000
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-17 11:07 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-17 18:16 +0000
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-17 11:46 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-17 19:31 +0000
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-17 13:47 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-17 21:01 +0000
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-17 11:34 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-17 13:20 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-19 18:23 +0200
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-19 09:30 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-19 16:48 +0000
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-19 10:00 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-19 09:51 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-19 10:01 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-19 13:30 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-19 16:44 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-19 21:17 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-20 08:27 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-20 09:34 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-20 09:40 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-20 18:30 +0000
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-20 13:06 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-20 13:18 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-20 13:21 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-20 13:23 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-22 15:45 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-23 08:52 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-23 09:19 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-20 16:50 -0500
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-20 14:55 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-20 23:46 +0000
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-20 16:58 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-21 09:23 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-21 18:51 +0200
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 17:15 +0000
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-21 19:36 +0200
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 15:06 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-22 00:15 +0200
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-22 08:56 -0500
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-22 13:00 -0700
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-22 22:34 +0200
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-22 14:11 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-22 23:17 +0200
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-24 11:19 +0200
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-24 03:21 -0700
                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-24 07:33 -0700
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 15:03 +0000
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-24 11:43 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 13:51 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-24 14:29 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 20:49 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-24 21:16 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 09:19 -0700
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 13:47 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 21:14 +0000
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 13:12 -0700
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 08:32 -0700
                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-25 10:25 +0200
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 09:49 -0700
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-26 09:42 +0200
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 09:47 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-26 10:56 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-27 10:38 +0200
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 08:22 -0700
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 08:52 -0700
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 09:40 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 11:56 -0700
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-27 18:56 +0000
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 13:18 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-27 21:02 +0000
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 09:24 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-27 14:14 -0700
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-28 10:58 +0200
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 12:42 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-29 09:41 +0200
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-29 13:15 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-30 10:16 +0200
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 09:03 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 09:10 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 09:52 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-31 11:36 +0200
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-31 12:10 +0200
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-30 17:40 +0000
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 14:31 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-30 14:49 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 08:33 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-31 08:44 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 15:55 +0000
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 09:46 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 09:57 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-31 10:32 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 14:22 -0700
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-31 14:25 -0700
                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 08:03 -0700
                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ecký Zcitná <ifmv@bsimdo.ac> - 2018-08-01 15:14 +0000
                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 09:20 -0700
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ecký Zcitná <ifmv@bsimdo.ac> - 2018-08-01 16:28 +0000
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-01 14:44 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-08-01 13:03 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 15:54 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 00:03 +0000
                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 12:20 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-31 13:30 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 14:07 -0700
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-31 16:44 -0700
                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 08:27 -0700
                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-01 11:34 -0500
                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-09 23:12 -0700
                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-10 22:05 -0500
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Lovu Biftek <ufeli@fupuks.cl> - 2018-08-12 13:52 +0000
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-16 15:05 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-08-16 15:17 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-17 10:24 -0500
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-31 17:05 -0700
                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 09:03 -0700
                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-01 16:24 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-01 19:26 -0500
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-31 11:03 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 14:43 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-31 16:45 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 08:46 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 09:03 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 21:38 +0000
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-08-01 18:38 -0700
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-08-02 12:31 +0200
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-02 11:10 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 05:13 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 14:04 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-08-01 14:51 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-08-01 14:56 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-30 22:22 +0000
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 08:53 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-01 05:02 +0000
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 09:09 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-01 20:29 +0000
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-31 10:52 +0200
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 09:42 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-08-01 11:39 +0200
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 09:10 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-08-02 09:20 +0200
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-22 14:58 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-23 08:44 -0700
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-23 09:00 -0700
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-22 23:13 -0500
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-23 07:58 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-23 09:51 -0700
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-23 10:29 -0700
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-23 23:58 +0200
                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-23 15:19 -0700
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-24 00:23 +0200
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-24 00:25 +0200
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-23 16:05 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-23 16:33 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-23 21:38 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-07-24 09:34 +0200
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-23 16:06 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-24 10:33 +0200
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-22 20:37 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-21 19:21 +0200
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-21 10:44 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-20 13:06 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 09:42 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-20 13:28 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-20 14:04 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 21:42 +0000
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-20 15:09 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 23:33 +0000
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-20 22:31 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 15:17 +0000
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-21 08:36 -0700
                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 15:45 +0000
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-21 08:49 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-21 08:54 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 14:53 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-21 22:25 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-22 12:43 -0700
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-22 23:01 +0200
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 14:14 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 14:16 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 11:20 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-20 18:45 +0000
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 12:00 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-20 19:05 +0000
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 14:23 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 14:22 -0700
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-22 20:34 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwendn.dp> - 2018-07-26 18:35 +0000
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 12:20 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-26 12:23 -0700
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwindn.dp> - 2018-07-26 21:48 +0000
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwindn.dp> - 2018-07-26 21:48 +0000
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 15:28 -0700
                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwindn.dp> - 2018-07-27 11:59 +0000
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 11:27 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-20 12:24 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-20 13:38 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 14:19 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-20 21:00 +0200
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-20 12:28 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-20 14:38 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 15:19 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-20 20:11 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-21 10:04 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-21 19:29 +0200
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-21 12:32 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-22 00:23 +0200
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-22 12:28 -0700
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-22 14:16 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-22 14:36 -0700
                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-23 08:32 -0700
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-23 17:52 +0200
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-23 09:25 -0700
                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-23 10:00 -0700
                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-23 14:53 -0700
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-24 00:01 +0200
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-23 15:28 -0700
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 07:28 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-24 07:35 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-24 08:16 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 08:53 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-24 16:39 +0000
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-24 18:55 +0200
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-24 17:19 +0000
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 10:24 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 13:41 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-24 13:49 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 21:14 +0000
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 13:58 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-24 14:04 -0700
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 14:22 -0700
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-24 23:31 +0200
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 22:38 +0000
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-24 14:40 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 08:17 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-25 08:28 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-25 17:38 +0200
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 08:49 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-25 18:09 +0200
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 15:56 +0000
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-25 16:34 +0000
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 13:26 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 14:32 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 15:01 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-26 00:16 +0200
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 07:18 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwendm.dp> - 2018-07-26 14:52 +0000
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 09:56 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwendn.dp> - 2018-07-26 18:36 +0000
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 13:37 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwendn.dp> - 2018-07-26 21:21 +0000
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 14:37 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <ulau@ydwindn.dp> - 2018-07-26 21:51 +0000
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-26 09:25 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 12:44 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-26 13:36 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 13:44 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 06:43 -0700
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-24 15:28 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 08:20 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-25 08:35 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-25 17:35 +0200
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 15:56 +0000
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-25 09:04 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 11:53 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 13:31 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 14:42 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 15:12 -0700
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-24 19:38 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-25 11:18 +0200
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 11:47 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-25 21:04 +0200
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 13:33 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-26 00:07 +0200
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 21:15 +0000
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 09:18 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 13:02 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 14:22 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-25 14:34 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 14:48 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 14:56 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 15:22 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-07-25 21:14 -0400
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 01:23 +0000
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 10:23 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-25 21:29 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 07:27 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-26 07:52 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 09:56 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-07-26 10:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 17:24 +0000
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-26 17:29 +0000
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-26 10:28 -0500
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 13:02 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 13:51 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 17:43 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 09:27 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 10:56 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 13:35 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 13:52 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-27 00:57 +0200
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 06:38 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-27 16:50 +0200
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 10:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 17:49 +0000
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-27 11:06 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-27 11:16 -0700
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-27 11:52 -0700
                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-27 14:01 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 08:29 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 09:29 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 09:52 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-27 18:58 +0200
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 22:04 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-27 23:38 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-28 14:00 +0000
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 10:20 -0700
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-23 16:12 -0700
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 08:15 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-24 19:22 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-24 21:41 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-24 22:10 -0700
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-24 22:13 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 09:04 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-25 18:14 +0200
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-25 09:24 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 12:29 -0700
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 14:00 -0700
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 15:22 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 08:25 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 09:59 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 13:23 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-26 21:23 +0000
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 15:17 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 07:44 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 11:39 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-07-27 02:10 +0200
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-26 17:01 +0000
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 17:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 13:26 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-26 21:13 +0000
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 14:30 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-26 14:37 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 13:13 -0700
                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 13:58 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-26 14:05 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-26 14:08 -0700
                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 14:06 -0700
                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 14:17 -0700
                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 15:19 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-27 00:46 +0200
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 07:58 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-27 17:03 +0200
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 08:41 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 09:04 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 09:37 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 08:47 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 09:39 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 11:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 13:12 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 14:01 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-27 23:37 +0200
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 22:44 +0000
                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-27 21:49 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 09:21 -0700
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-28 10:32 -0700
                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 13:25 -0700
                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-28 18:46 -0700
                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-29 12:28 -0700
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 13:09 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-29 14:14 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 15:32 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 08:25 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-30 10:11 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 10:35 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 13:40 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-30 14:42 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-30 15:39 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-29 23:50 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 15:50 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-30 12:59 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-30 07:59 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 08:40 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-30 09:11 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 09:20 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-30 10:49 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 13:02 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 14:01 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-30 22:03 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-31 22:03 +0200
                                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-31 18:41 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-01 18:48 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-08-01 18:51 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ecký Zcitná <ifmv@bsimdo.ac> - 2018-08-02 11:21 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 13:02 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ecký Zcitná <ifmv@bsimdo.ac> - 2018-08-02 21:18 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 14:30 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ecký Zcitná <ifmv@bsimdo.ac> - 2018-08-02 22:25 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 16:13 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-04 14:02 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 05:32 -0700
                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 06:24 -0700
                                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 09:46 -0700
                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 10:06 -0700
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 14:46 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-30 15:43 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-30 15:56 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-30 16:05 -0700
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 14:48 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 08:22 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ecký Zcitná <ifmv@bsimdo.ac> - 2018-08-01 15:27 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 08:34 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 12:23 -0700
                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 17:25 +0000
                                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-30 23:48 -0500
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 09:22 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-31 13:18 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 13:12 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-31 16:29 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-01 08:06 -0700
                                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-31 14:05 -0700
                                                                                                  QED and photons (was: Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-01 11:20 -0500
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-28 14:46 -0700
                                                                              Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-27 13:15 -0500
                                                                                Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 11:36 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-27 15:01 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-27 15:12 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-29 10:21 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Wayne Dial <ulau@dwipdn.dv> - 2018-07-29 16:28 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-29 18:51 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Wayne Dial <ulau@dwbpdn.dv> - 2018-07-29 18:57 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-29 21:01 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Wayne Dial <ulau@dvbpdn.dv> - 2018-07-29 19:23 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 10:02 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-29 20:20 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 12:37 -0700
                                                                                Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 13:07 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 13:27 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-29 10:40 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 10:28 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-30 11:46 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-30 12:54 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Falling objects in GR (was Re: A suggested time dilation experiment) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-30 22:27 -0500
                                                                                Re: Falling objects in GR Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-28 15:58 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Falling objects in GR SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-07-29 18:01 +1000
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 10:25 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 11:51 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-27 10:28 -0700
                                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 13:42 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-27 21:10 +0000
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 09:36 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 14:59 -0700
                                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-27 21:48 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-28 10:22 +0200
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-28 08:33 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-30 14:35 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-30 23:43 -0500
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 10:12 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-28 11:06 -0700
                                                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 13:35 -0700
                                                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-28 19:16 -0700
                                                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-29 12:48 -0700
                                                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment hallstoncliff@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 13:52 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-28 12:55 -0700
                                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-29 22:13 -0700
                                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 00:23 -0700
                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 10:54 -0700
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 18:05 +0000
                                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-24 13:25 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-24 13:43 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 21:14 +0000
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 13:53 -0700
                                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 10:23 -0700
                                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 12:11 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 12:39 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-25 14:07 -0700
                                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 14:36 -0700
                                                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-25 14:51 -0700
                                                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 09:44 -0700
                                                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 10:05 -0700
                                                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-07-26 19:19 +0200
                                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-22 18:53 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 15:14 -0700
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-21 15:58 -0700
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-07-21 11:05 +0200
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-21 02:36 -0700
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-07-21 11:47 +0200
                                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-21 04:41 -0700
                                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-21 15:01 +0200
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-21 13:19 +0000
                                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-22 03:38 +0200
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-19 17:04 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-07-21 11:44 +0200
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-07-21 05:27 -0700
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-07-21 14:34 +0200
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 20:43 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-17 16:50 +0000
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-17 17:04 +0000
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-17 15:47 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-17 22:51 +0000
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-18 15:04 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-18 23:51 +0000
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-19 13:52 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-20 18:54 +0000
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-20 12:32 -0700
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-21 13:16 +0000
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-07-21 11:20 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-15 21:32 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-16 10:17 -0500
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Otto Snook <uot@wuoluo.uc> - 2018-07-18 17:49 +0000
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-19 02:45 +0200
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Wayne Dial <uluuuau@ydwnwedml.dd> - 2018-07-19 12:40 +0000
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-19 20:20 +0200
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-07-19 09:18 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-07-13 14:54 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment consequently7990662@gmail.com - 2018-07-23 14:54 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mgilady@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 23:19 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-07-25 23:59 -0700
    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-25 23:34 -0700
      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 09:34 -0700
        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-26 13:25 -0700
          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-26 14:29 -0700
            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-26 14:40 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-26 21:53 +0000
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-27 07:38 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 15:13 -0700
              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-29 13:25 -0700
                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-29 14:30 -0700
                  Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-29 15:13 -0700
                    Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-30 07:12 -0700
                      Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-30 22:12 -0500
                        Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-07-31 09:04 -0700
                          Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-31 13:15 -0500
                            Re: A suggested time dilation experiment "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-31 13:07 -0700
                              Re: A suggested time dilation experiment Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-07-31 15:52 -0500
                                Re: A suggested time dilation experiment mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-07-31 21:25 -0700

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#464288

Frommitchrae3323@gmail.com
Date2018-07-13 12:42 -0700
Message-ID<00c35a9d-f000-4818-bb17-cda2359be992@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464266
Gravity strength slows time rate.
Speed for the atom slows its time.
Gravity and motion both do this.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#464290

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2018-07-13 13:06 -0700
Message-ID<5B49063B.E27@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#464266
Ed Lake wrote:
> 
> The human centrifuge at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, CA, can generate 20Gs of gravity for up to 22 hours while spinning a payload of 1,200 pounds or less.
> 
> I asked them if anyone had ever put atomic clocks aboard their centrifuge.  They told me no one had.
> 
> Suppose they performed an experiment that begins with 5 atomic clocks that are all synchronized and confirmed to be ticking at the same rate in the control room outside of the centrifuge.  Then they could put 4 of the clocks on the centrifuge and spin them at 20Gs for 22 hours.  (Like Hafele-Keating, they should use 4 clocks to make sure they all work the same way, and to get an average.)
> 
> They could then stop the centrifuge and compare the clocks on the centrifuge to the control clock that remained in the control room.
> 
> Unlike Hafele-Keating, this experiment should show gravitational time dilation ADDING TO velocity time dilation instead of subtracting from.  While spinning, the 4 clocks should have ticked significantly slower than the control clock.
> 
> I assume most people here will claim such a test won't prove anything.  But can they explain why?
> 
> Ed



I thought einstein proved that you cannot and it's impossible to synchronize clocks...

i mean, it's called...Relativity.

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#464293

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-13 13:26 -0700
Message-ID<abe8ecd9-ba48-45e8-a29a-c5e1cc787f13@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464290
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:06:18 PM UTC-5, The Starmaker wrote:
> Ed Lake wrote:
> > 
> > The human centrifuge at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, CA, can generate 20Gs of gravity for up to 22 hours while spinning a payload of 1,200 pounds or less.
> > 
> > I asked them if anyone had ever put atomic clocks aboard their centrifuge.  They told me no one had.
> > 
> > Suppose they performed an experiment that begins with 5 atomic clocks that are all synchronized and confirmed to be ticking at the same rate in the control room outside of the centrifuge.  Then they could put 4 of the clocks on the centrifuge and spin them at 20Gs for 22 hours.  (Like Hafele-Keating, they should use 4 clocks to make sure they all work the same way, and to get an average.)
> > 
> > They could then stop the centrifuge and compare the clocks on the centrifuge to the control clock that remained in the control room.
> > 
> > Unlike Hafele-Keating, this experiment should show gravitational time dilation ADDING TO velocity time dilation instead of subtracting from.  While spinning, the 4 clocks should have ticked significantly slower than the control clock.
> > 
> > I assume most people here will claim such a test won't prove anything.  But can they explain why?
> > 
> > Ed
> 
> 
> 
> I thought einstein proved that you cannot and it's impossible to synchronize clocks...
> 
> i mean, it's called...Relativity.

No, he said you cannot synchronize clocks unless they are stationary relative to one another.  They tick at the same rate if they are stationary to one another, and he said you can verify that by sending light signals from clock to clock.  If it takes the same amount of time for light to travel from Clock-A to Clock-B as it does for light to travel from Clock-B to Clock-A, then the clocks are stationary relative to one another.

Ed

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#464292

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2018-07-13 15:22 -0500
Message-ID<neCdnS4KaPuVl9TGnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#464266
On 7/13/18 12:10 PM, Ed Lake wrote:
> The human centrifuge at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, CA, can
> generate 20Gs of gravity for up to 22 hours while spinning a payload of 1,200
> pounds or less.
> https://www.nasa.gov/ames/research/space-biosciences/20-g-centrifuge

It's not "20Gs of gravity", it is an acceleration of 20 g. Spinning is NOT 
gravity (DUH!).

Moreover, for computing the "time dilation" of a clock the acceleration simply 
does not matter. All that matters is the velocity relative to the lab. That is, 
since everything is supported against earth's gravity and located at the same 
altitude [#], we can neglect gravity and analyze in an inertial frame at rest in 
the lab.

	[#] We will place the lab clock at the same altitude as the
	centrifuge clock.

 From the above link, the centrifuge has a radius of 29 ft and can spin at 50 
RPM. 29 ft is 8.8 meters, and 50 RPM has a period of 60/50 seconds; the velocity 
relative to the lab frame is:
	v = 2 pi r / (60/50)
	  = 2 * 3.14 * 8.8 / 1.2
	  = 46 meters/second

To compute gamma, no normal calculator has sufficient precision, so I switch to 
Python's decimal module with 28 digit precision:
	from decimal import *
	v = Decimal(46.0)
	c = Decimal(299792458.0)
	gamma = Decimal(1.0)/Decimal.sqrt(Decimal(1.0)-v*v/c/c)
	t = 22*3600
	delta_t = Decimal(t) * (gamma-Decimal(1.0))
	print(gamma,delta_t)
	1.000000000000011771837593048 9.32329537369401600E-10	

So after 22 hours, the clock in the centrifuge is predicted to lag the clock in 
the lab by 0.93 nanoseconds.

Today there exists no atomic clock that can operate at 20 g and maintain 
accuracy sufficient to measure that difference.

> Unlike Hafele-Keating, this experiment should show gravitational time
> dilation ADDING TO velocity time dilation instead of subtracting from. 

Nope. Comparing to a clock at rest in the lab at the same altitude as the clock 
in the centrifuge, there is NO contribution from gravity. Spinning is NOT 
gravity (DUH!).

	For gravitational "time dilation" to have the same sign as
	the relative-velocity "time dilation", the "moving" clock
	must be BELOW the "stationary" clock.

> While
> spinning, the 4 clocks should have ticked significantly slower than the
> control clock.

Nope. As I keep pointing out, clocks NEVER tick "slower". Moreover, this 
experiment DOES NOT MEASURE OR COMPARE TICK RATES, it compares the total elapsed 
time of the two clocks.

	Relative to the lab frame, the centrifuge clock followed a
	helical path through spacetime (axis parallel to the time
	coordinate, radius of 29 feet), while the lab clock followed
	a straight-line path through spacetime (parallel to the time
	coordinate). These two paths have different values for total
	elapsed proper time during the experiment -- THAT IS WHAT IS
	MEASURED.

Here your GUESS is wrong, and the elapsed-time difference is NOT significant, 
given the accuracy of current atomic clocks capable of operating at 20 g.

	The NIST ion clocks referred to by others in this thread would
	not fit into the centrifuge, and would not operate at greater
	than ~ 1.1 g.

> I assume most people here will claim such a test won't prove anything.  But
> can they explain why?

I am not "most people here", but I do point out that such an experiment will not 
demonstrate anything, because we do not have clocks with sufficient accuracy to 
measure the tiny time difference.

Tom Roberts

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#464297

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-13 13:58 -0700
Message-ID<5e519e55-606f-4988-bfa5-21926b0f65f2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464292
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 7/13/18 12:10 PM, Ed Lake wrote:
> > The human centrifuge at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, CA, can
> > generate 20Gs of gravity for up to 22 hours while spinning a payload of 1,200
> > pounds or less.
> > https://www.nasa.gov/ames/research/space-biosciences/20-g-centrifuge
> 
> It's not "20Gs of gravity", it is an acceleration of 20 g. Spinning is NOT 
> gravity (DUH!).

Since they are equivalent, I figured the experiment would require less explaining if I used gravity instead of acceleration

> 
> Moreover, for computing the "time dilation" of a clock the acceleration simply 
> does not matter. All that matters is the velocity relative to the lab. That is, 
> since everything is supported against earth's gravity and located at the same 
> altitude [#], we can neglect gravity and analyze in an inertial frame at rest in 
> the lab.
> 
> 	[#] We will place the lab clock at the same altitude as the
> 	centrifuge clock.
> 
>  From the above link, the centrifuge has a radius of 29 ft and can spin at 50 
> RPM. 29 ft is 8.8 meters, and 50 RPM has a period of 60/50 seconds; the velocity 
> relative to the lab frame is:
> 	v = 2 pi r / (60/50)
> 	  = 2 * 3.14 * 8.8 / 1.2
> 	  = 46 meters/second
> 
> To compute gamma, no normal calculator has sufficient precision, so I switch to 
> Python's decimal module with 28 digit precision:
> 	from decimal import *
> 	v = Decimal(46.0)
> 	c = Decimal(299792458.0)
> 	gamma = Decimal(1.0)/Decimal.sqrt(Decimal(1.0)-v*v/c/c)
> 	t = 22*3600
> 	delta_t = Decimal(t) * (gamma-Decimal(1.0))
> 	print(gamma,delta_t)
> 	1.000000000000011771837593048 9.32329537369401600E-10	
> 
> So after 22 hours, the clock in the centrifuge is predicted to lag the clock in 
> the lab by 0.93 nanoseconds.
> 
> Today there exists no atomic clock that can operate at 20 g and maintain 
> accuracy sufficient to measure that difference.

Who says?  Or are you saying that if the FOUR clocks on the centrifuge end up lagging behind the clock in the control room you will claim all the clocks malfunctioned in unison? 

> 
> > Unlike Hafele-Keating, this experiment should show gravitational time
> > dilation ADDING TO velocity time dilation instead of subtracting from. 
> 
> Nope. Comparing to a clock at rest in the lab at the same altitude as the clock 
> in the centrifuge, there is NO contribution from gravity. Spinning is NOT 
> gravity (DUH!).

Didn't you just agree that acceleration has the same affect on time as gravity?  The acceleration or rotation SIMULATES gravity.

> 
> 	For gravitational "time dilation" to have the same sign as
> 	the relative-velocity "time dilation", the "moving" clock
> 	must be BELOW the "stationary" clock.

Nope. Gravitational time dilation slows down time and so does velocity time dilation.  Einstein's elevator thought experiment says that acceleration has the same effect on time as gravity.

> 
> > While
> > spinning, the 4 clocks should have ticked significantly slower than the
> > control clock.
> 
> Nope. As I keep pointing out, clocks NEVER tick "slower". Moreover, this 
> experiment DOES NOT MEASURE OR COMPARE TICK RATES, it compares the total elapsed 
> time of the two clocks.

The total elapsed time will be different because the clocks on the centrifuge ticked slower.  If you do not believe that, you can add some additional test to verify it, like cameras.

> 
> 	Relative to the lab frame, the centrifuge clock followed a
> 	helical path through spacetime (axis parallel to the time
> 	coordinate, radius of 29 feet), while the lab clock followed
> 	a straight-line path through spacetime (parallel to the time
> 	coordinate). These two paths have different values for total
> 	elapsed proper time during the experiment -- THAT IS WHAT IS
> 	MEASURED.

You are talking about a mathematical model.  This experiment is to see what happens IN REALITY.

> 
> Here your GUESS is wrong, and the elapsed-time difference is NOT significant, 
> given the accuracy of current atomic clocks capable of operating at 20 g.
> 
> 	The NIST ion clocks referred to by others in this thread would
> 	not fit into the centrifuge, and would not operate at greater
> 	than ~ 1.1 g.

The four atomic clocks used by Hafele and Keating, placed one atop the other, fitted into two airplane seats.  There is NO reason to believe they would not operate at 20Gs.  If you know of a reason, provide a reference.  Do not just make declarations of your beliefs.
  
> 
> > I assume most people here will claim such a test won't prove anything.  But
> > can they explain why?
> 
> I am not "most people here", but I do point out that such an experiment will not 
> demonstrate anything, because we do not have clocks with sufficient accuracy to 
> measure the tiny time difference.
> 
> Tom Roberts

If they can measure the difference using atomic clocks flying aboard airplanes, they can certainly measure the difference using atomic clocks in a centrifuge.  And the gravitational time dilation at 20Gs should be VERY LARGE.

BTW, I have a paper about this.  The suggested experiment is mentioned in Section VI of my paper "Analyzing the 'Twin Paradox'" which can be found at this link: http://vixra.org/pdf/1807.0192v1.pdf 

Ed

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#464298

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-07-13 14:30 -0700
Message-ID<3c4a697c-9dff-40c3-a937-92a8f75bac91@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464297
El viernes, 13 de julio de 2018, 15:58:18 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, tjrob137 wrote:

> 
> The total elapsed time will be different because the clocks on the centrifuge ticked slower.  If you do not believe that, you can add some additional test to verify it, like cameras.
> 
> > 
> > 	Relative to the lab frame, the centrifuge clock followed a
> > 	helical path through spacetime (axis parallel to the time
> > 	coordinate, radius of 29 feet), while the lab clock followed
> > 	a straight-line path through spacetime (parallel to the time
> > 	coordinate). These two paths have different values for total
> > 	elapsed proper time during the experiment -- THAT IS WHAT IS
> > 	MEASURED.
> 
> You are talking about a mathematical model.  This experiment is to see what happens IN REALITY.
> 

What part of your own experimental arrangement you do not understand?

The clocks in the centrifuge ARE going into a circular path, right?

The clock in the ground is not moving, right?

For both clock there is a time coordinate, right?

For the ground clock you can graph its tick time versus time, right?

For the centrifuge clocks you can graph their location on the circle versus time, right?

What is the math in there? and why those graphs are not related to reality

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#464349

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-14 09:39 -0700
Message-ID<cf3b2778-6a7a-462f-bbdb-1bfecda64927@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464298
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:30:24 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> El viernes, 13 de julio de 2018, 15:58:18 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, tjrob137 wrote:
> 
> > 
> > The total elapsed time will be different because the clocks on the centrifuge ticked slower.  If you do not believe that, you can add some additional test to verify it, like cameras.
> > 
> > > 
> > > 	Relative to the lab frame, the centrifuge clock followed a
> > > 	helical path through spacetime (axis parallel to the time
> > > 	coordinate, radius of 29 feet), while the lab clock followed
> > > 	a straight-line path through spacetime (parallel to the time
> > > 	coordinate). These two paths have different values for total
> > > 	elapsed proper time during the experiment -- THAT IS WHAT IS
> > > 	MEASURED.
> > 
> > You are talking about a mathematical model.  This experiment is to see what happens IN REALITY.
> > 
> 
> What part of your own experimental arrangement you do not understand?
> 
> The clocks in the centrifuge ARE going into a circular path, right?
> 
> The clock in the ground is not moving, right?
> 
> For both clock there is a time coordinate, right?
> 
> For the ground clock you can graph its tick time versus time, right?
> 
> For the centrifuge clocks you can graph their location on the circle versus time, right?
> 
> What is the math in there? and why those graphs are not related to reality

Sorry, Paparious, but your post did not translate into meaningful English.

The atomic clocks are all checked and confirmed to be running at the same rates.

The atomic clocks on the centrifuge are then spun at high speeds for 22 hours.

The clocks that were spun are then compared to the control clock that was not spun.  The clocks that were spun will show that they ticked slower while moving.  The difference may only be a few nanoseconds, but it should be measurable since it was measurable in the Hafele-Keating Experiment. 

Here's a video I just found where Neil de Grasse Tyson explains time dilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRw6ox3dGcA

Ed 

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#464351

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-07-14 10:07 -0700
Message-ID<5b4b9b9e-62a2-4a4c-b4db-042ee0407c55@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464349
El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 11:39:49 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:30:24 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> > El viernes, 13 de julio de 2018, 15:58:18 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > > On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, tjrob137 wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > The total elapsed time will be different because the clocks on the centrifuge ticked slower.  If you do not believe that, you can add some additional test to verify it, like cameras.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 	Relative to the lab frame, the centrifuge clock followed a
> > > > 	helical path through spacetime (axis parallel to the time
> > > > 	coordinate, radius of 29 feet), while the lab clock followed
> > > > 	a straight-line path through spacetime (parallel to the time
> > > > 	coordinate). These two paths have different values for total
> > > > 	elapsed proper time during the experiment -- THAT IS WHAT IS
> > > > 	MEASURED.
> > > 
> > > You are talking about a mathematical model.  This experiment is to see what happens IN REALITY.
> > > 
> > 
> > What part of your own experimental arrangement you do not understand?
> > 
> > The clocks in the centrifuge ARE going into a circular path, right?
> > 
> > The clock in the ground is not moving, right?
> > 
> > For both clock there is a time coordinate, right?
> > 
> > For the ground clock you can graph its tick time versus time, right?
> > 
> > For the centrifuge clocks you can graph their location on the circle versus time, right?
> > 
> > What is the math in there? and why those graphs are not related to reality
> 
> Sorry, Paparious, but your post did not translate into meaningful English.
>

So, you do not understand English?
 
> The atomic clocks are all checked and confirmed to be running at the same rates.
> 

Obviously...

> The atomic clocks on the centrifuge are then spun at high speeds for 22 hours.
> 

Ok with that. Why 22 hours is debatable, but it is your experiment.

But those clocks inside the centrifuge are following a circular path, right?
That path would be described by an equation such as x^2+y^2=r^2, where x and y
are the coordinates and r is the radious of the circunference of the centrifuge.
Now each atomic clock inside the centrifuge is measuring the passing of time, right?

Then it logically follows that each atomic clock, inside the centrifuge, is 
following an helix trajectory (see the figure in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix)
using the coordinates x,y,t.


> The clocks that were spun are then compared to the control clock that was not spun.  The clocks that were spun will show that they ticked slower while moving.  The difference may only be a few nanoseconds, but it should be measurable since it was measurable in the Hafele-Keating Experiment. 
> 

The control clock is fixed on the ground, and its trajectory is described by
x=0, y=0 and t=t. This is a straight line following the time axis.

So the trajectory of the clocks inside the centrifuge and the trajectory of the ground clock are evidently different (an helix versus a straight line) and
therefore, even if all atomic clocks tick at the same rate, their elapsed time
will indeed be different.

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#464358

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-14 10:41 -0700
Message-ID<98eff228-0928-4f6f-822b-aafa6d95435f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464351
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 12:07:50 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 11:39:49 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:30:24 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> > > El viernes, 13 de julio de 2018, 15:58:18 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > > > On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, tjrob137 wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The total elapsed time will be different because the clocks on the centrifuge ticked slower.  If you do not believe that, you can add some additional test to verify it, like cameras.
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 	Relative to the lab frame, the centrifuge clock followed a
> > > > > 	helical path through spacetime (axis parallel to the time
> > > > > 	coordinate, radius of 29 feet), while the lab clock followed
> > > > > 	a straight-line path through spacetime (parallel to the time
> > > > > 	coordinate). These two paths have different values for total
> > > > > 	elapsed proper time during the experiment -- THAT IS WHAT IS
> > > > > 	MEASURED.
> > > > 
> > > > You are talking about a mathematical model.  This experiment is to see what happens IN REALITY.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > What part of your own experimental arrangement you do not understand?
> > > 
> > > The clocks in the centrifuge ARE going into a circular path, right?
> > > 
> > > The clock in the ground is not moving, right?
> > > 
> > > For both clock there is a time coordinate, right?
> > > 
> > > For the ground clock you can graph its tick time versus time, right?
> > > 
> > > For the centrifuge clocks you can graph their location on the circle versus time, right?
> > > 
> > > What is the math in there? and why those graphs are not related to reality
> > 
> > Sorry, Paparious, but your post did not translate into meaningful English.
> >
> 
> So, you do not understand English?
>  
> > The atomic clocks are all checked and confirmed to be running at the same rates.
> > 
> 
> Obviously...
> 
> > The atomic clocks on the centrifuge are then spun at high speeds for 22 hours.
> > 
> 
> Ok with that. Why 22 hours is debatable, but it is your experiment.
> 
> But those clocks inside the centrifuge are following a circular path, right?
> That path would be described by an equation such as x^2+y^2=r^2, where x and y
> are the coordinates and r is the radious of the circunference of the centrifuge.
> Now each atomic clock inside the centrifuge is measuring the passing of time, right?
> 
> Then it logically follows that each atomic clock, inside the centrifuge, is 
> following an helix trajectory (see the figure in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix)
> using the coordinates x,y,t.
> 
> 
> > The clocks that were spun are then compared to the control clock that was not spun.  The clocks that were spun will show that they ticked slower while moving.  The difference may only be a few nanoseconds, but it should be measurable since it was measurable in the Hafele-Keating Experiment. 
> > 
> 
> The control clock is fixed on the ground, and its trajectory is described by
> x=0, y=0 and t=t. This is a straight line following the time axis.
> 
> So the trajectory of the clocks inside the centrifuge and the trajectory of the ground clock are evidently different (an helix versus a straight line) and
> therefore, even if all atomic clocks tick at the same rate, their elapsed time
> will indeed be different.

I was using 22 hours because that is the maximum amount of time that the NASA Ames Research Center centrifuge can run at 20Gs.

I'm not interested in trajectories.  I'm only interested in velocities and gravity.  Those are the factors that affect time dilation in the propose centrifuge experiment.

Ed

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#464365

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-07-14 11:04 -0700
Message-ID<7681e61d-54b3-44b6-b707-bb27649ce6d2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464358
El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 12:41:17 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 12:07:50 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
 
> > > Sorry, Paparious, but your post did not translate into meaningful English.
> > >
> > 
> > So, you do not understand English?
> >  
> > > The atomic clocks are all checked and confirmed to be running at the same rates.
> > > 
> > 
> > Obviously...
> > 
> > > The atomic clocks on the centrifuge are then spun at high speeds for 22 hours.
> > > 
> > 
> > Ok with that. Why 22 hours is debatable, but it is your experiment.
> > 
> > But those clocks inside the centrifuge are following a circular path, right?
> > That path would be described by an equation such as x^2+y^2=r^2, where x and y
> > are the coordinates and r is the radious of the circunference of the centrifuge.
> > Now each atomic clock inside the centrifuge is measuring the passing of time, right?
> > 
> > Then it logically follows that each atomic clock, inside the centrifuge, is 
> > following an helix trajectory (see the figure in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix)
> > using the coordinates x,y,t.
> > 
> > 
> > > The clocks that were spun are then compared to the control clock that was not spun.  The clocks that were spun will show that they ticked slower while moving.  The difference may only be a few nanoseconds, but it should be measurable since it was measurable in the Hafele-Keating Experiment. 
> > > 
> > 
> > The control clock is fixed on the ground, and its trajectory is described by
> > x=0, y=0 and t=t. This is a straight line following the time axis.
> > 
> > So the trajectory of the clocks inside the centrifuge and the trajectory of the ground clock are evidently different (an helix versus a straight line) and
> > therefore, even if all atomic clocks tick at the same rate, their elapsed time
> > will indeed be different.
> 
> I was using 22 hours because that is the maximum amount of time that the NASA Ames Research Center centrifuge can run at 20Gs.
> 
> I'm not interested in trajectories.  I'm only interested in velocities and gravity.  Those are the factors that affect time dilation in the propose centrifuge experiment.
> 
> Ed

That you are not interested in trajectories, while assuring your centrifuge
experiment somehow follows Hafele-Keating experiments, is amazing.

Why Hafele Keating flown clocks in two directions (ie two different trajectories?

The reality of time dilation effects refers precisely to objects following
different trajectories between the starting and ending events.

Again we remind you of the two car odometer analogy. Two identical cars with
identical odometers, follow different trajectories (paths) between Chicago and
New York. Certainly both odometers, compared at their arrival to New York, will
show different elapsed distances. Note that each odometer is "ticking" at
exactly 1 mile/mile.

Similarly, the atomic clocks in your centrifuge experiment, while ticking exactly
at 1 second/second, will show different elapsed times at the end of the experiment, because the clocks followed diferent trajectories (x,y,t) throughout
the experiment.

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#464371

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-14 12:56 -0700
Message-ID<12d1b3db-5add-4293-9816-9554212df802@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464365
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 12:41:17 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 12:07:50 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
>  
> > > > Sorry, Paparious, but your post did not translate into meaningful English.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > So, you do not understand English?
> > >  
> > > > The atomic clocks are all checked and confirmed to be running at the same rates.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Obviously...
> > > 
> > > > The atomic clocks on the centrifuge are then spun at high speeds for 22 hours.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Ok with that. Why 22 hours is debatable, but it is your experiment.
> > > 
> > > But those clocks inside the centrifuge are following a circular path, right?
> > > That path would be described by an equation such as x^2+y^2=r^2, where x and y
> > > are the coordinates and r is the radious of the circunference of the centrifuge.
> > > Now each atomic clock inside the centrifuge is measuring the passing of time, right?
> > > 
> > > Then it logically follows that each atomic clock, inside the centrifuge, is 
> > > following an helix trajectory (see the figure in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix)
> > > using the coordinates x,y,t.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > The clocks that were spun are then compared to the control clock that was not spun.  The clocks that were spun will show that they ticked slower while moving.  The difference may only be a few nanoseconds, but it should be measurable since it was measurable in the Hafele-Keating Experiment. 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > The control clock is fixed on the ground, and its trajectory is described by
> > > x=0, y=0 and t=t. This is a straight line following the time axis.
> > > 
> > > So the trajectory of the clocks inside the centrifuge and the trajectory of the ground clock are evidently different (an helix versus a straight line) and
> > > therefore, even if all atomic clocks tick at the same rate, their elapsed time
> > > will indeed be different.
> > 
> > I was using 22 hours because that is the maximum amount of time that the NASA Ames Research Center centrifuge can run at 20Gs.
> > 
> > I'm not interested in trajectories.  I'm only interested in velocities and gravity.  Those are the factors that affect time dilation in the propose centrifuge experiment.
> > 
> > Ed
> 
> That you are not interested in trajectories, while assuring your centrifuge
> experiment somehow follows Hafele-Keating experiments, is amazing.

I compare it to Hafele-Keating because Hafele-Keating had gravitational time dilation SUBTRACTING FROM velocity time dilation.  The centrifuge experiment has gravitational time dilation ADDING TO velocity time dilation.

> 
> Why Hafele Keating flown clocks in two directions (ie two different trajectories?

That is because the spin of the earth was part of their experiment.  The spin of the earth is NOT A FACTOR in the centrifuge experiment.
 
> The reality of time dilation effects refers precisely to objects following
> different trajectories between the starting and ending events.

Not if you are talking about gravitational time dilation.

> 
> Again we remind you of the two car odometer analogy. Two identical cars with
> identical odometers, follow different trajectories (paths) between Chicago and
> New York. Certainly both odometers, compared at their arrival to New York, will
> show different elapsed distances. Note that each odometer is "ticking" at
> exactly 1 mile/mile.
> 
> Similarly, the atomic clocks in your centrifuge experiment, while ticking exactly
> at 1 second/second, will show different elapsed times at the end of the experiment, because the clocks followed diferent trajectories (x,y,t) throughout
> the experiment.

The clocks did NOT follow different trajectories during the experiment.  They were within a hundred feet of each other at all times.  One clock just sat and moved with the earth, the other clock spun in a circle as it moved with the earth.

Ed

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#464374

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-07-14 13:10 -0700
Message-ID<86be1db3-98e1-4ce9-b590-e15032b75ef1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464371
El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 14:56:41 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:

> > 
> > Again we remind you of the two car odometer analogy. Two identical cars with
> > identical odometers, follow different trajectories (paths) between Chicago and
> > New York. Certainly both odometers, compared at their arrival to New York, will
> > show different elapsed distances. Note that each odometer is "ticking" at
> > exactly 1 mile/mile.
> > 
> > Similarly, the atomic clocks in your centrifuge experiment, while ticking exactly
> > at 1 second/second, will show different elapsed times at the end of the experiment, because the clocks followed diferent trajectories (x,y,t) throughout
> > the experiment.
> 
> The clocks did NOT follow different trajectories during the experiment.  They were within a hundred feet of each other at all times.  One clock just sat and moved with the earth, the other clock spun in a circle as it moved with the earth.
> 
> Ed

How can you assert that, when it is quite evident that one clock is sitting on
the ground (that Earth, Sun, galaxy, etc. are moving does not affect the results)
and the other clocks, inside the centrifuge, are moving in circles (relatively to
the ground clock)?

They for sure follow different trajectories: the inside the centrifuge follow
an helix, while the ground clock follows a straight line!!!

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#464377

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-14 13:36 -0700
Message-ID<1aec2d1e-6818-4b24-8a0b-03e3843953b8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464374
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 3:10:09 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 14:56:41 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > Again we remind you of the two car odometer analogy. Two identical cars with
> > > identical odometers, follow different trajectories (paths) between Chicago and
> > > New York. Certainly both odometers, compared at their arrival to New York, will
> > > show different elapsed distances. Note that each odometer is "ticking" at
> > > exactly 1 mile/mile.
> > > 
> > > Similarly, the atomic clocks in your centrifuge experiment, while ticking exactly
> > > at 1 second/second, will show different elapsed times at the end of the experiment, because the clocks followed diferent trajectories (x,y,t) throughout
> > > the experiment.
> > 
> > The clocks did NOT follow different trajectories during the experiment.  They were within a hundred feet of each other at all times.  One clock just sat and moved with the earth, the other clock spun in a circle as it moved with the earth.
> > 
> > Ed
> 
> How can you assert that, when it is quite evident that one clock is sitting on
> the ground (that Earth, Sun, galaxy, etc. are moving does not affect the results)
> and the other clocks, inside the centrifuge, are moving in circles (relatively to
> the ground clock)?
> 
> They for sure follow different trajectories: the inside the centrifuge follow
> an helix, while the ground clock follows a straight line!!!

Okay.  We agree.  The spin of the earth, the movement of the earth around the sun, and the movement of the sun around the center of the Milky Way galaxy are all irrelevant to the experiment since they apply equally to both clocks.

The only relevant factors are that the ground clock follows a straight line around the earth's axis while the centrifuge clock follows a path that spins around a fixed point relative to the other clock as it moves together with the other clock around the earth's axis. 

Technically, it is not a helix.  The path the moving clock travels is more like a zigzag pattern.  It moves faster than the other clock as they both move around the earth's axis, then away from the other clock and at right angles relative to the spin of the earth, then slower than the other clock as the moving clock moves against the motion of the earth, then toward the other clock and again at right angles to the spin of the earth, and then it repeats.

The movement with the earth and the movement against the earth should cancel each other out, and the sideways motion has no effect.  So, the moving clock is basically traveling at whatever it's rotational speed is (at approx. 50 RPM) while experiencing gravitational effects that are significantly different than experienced by the other clock.

Ed

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#464378

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-14 13:52 -0700
Message-ID<0a7fe50f-3930-4ac4-9928-ccff4dfca858@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464377
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 3:36:20 PM UTC-5, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 3:10:09 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> > El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 14:56:41 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > > On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> > 
> > > > 
> > > > Again we remind you of the two car odometer analogy. Two identical cars with
> > > > identical odometers, follow different trajectories (paths) between Chicago and
> > > > New York. Certainly both odometers, compared at their arrival to New York, will
> > > > show different elapsed distances. Note that each odometer is "ticking" at
> > > > exactly 1 mile/mile.
> > > > 
> > > > Similarly, the atomic clocks in your centrifuge experiment, while ticking exactly
> > > > at 1 second/second, will show different elapsed times at the end of the experiment, because the clocks followed diferent trajectories (x,y,t) throughout
> > > > the experiment.
> > > 
> > > The clocks did NOT follow different trajectories during the experiment.  They were within a hundred feet of each other at all times.  One clock just sat and moved with the earth, the other clock spun in a circle as it moved with the earth.
> > > 
> > > Ed
> > 
> > How can you assert that, when it is quite evident that one clock is sitting on
> > the ground (that Earth, Sun, galaxy, etc. are moving does not affect the results)
> > and the other clocks, inside the centrifuge, are moving in circles (relatively to
> > the ground clock)?
> > 
> > They for sure follow different trajectories: the inside the centrifuge follow
> > an helix, while the ground clock follows a straight line!!!
> 
> Okay.  We agree.  The spin of the earth, the movement of the earth around the sun, and the movement of the sun around the center of the Milky Way galaxy are all irrelevant to the experiment since they apply equally to both clocks.
> 
> The only relevant factors are that the ground clock follows a straight line around the earth's axis while the centrifuge clock follows a path that spins around a fixed point relative to the other clock as it moves together with the other clock around the earth's axis. 
> 
> Technically, it is not a helix.  The path the moving clock travels is more like a zigzag pattern.  It moves faster than the other clock as they both move around the earth's axis, then away from the other clock and at right angles relative to the spin of the earth, then slower than the other clock as the moving clock moves against the motion of the earth, then toward the other clock and again at right angles to the spin of the earth, and then it repeats.
> 
> The movement with the earth and the movement against the earth should cancel each other out, and the sideways motion has no effect.  So, the moving clock is basically traveling at whatever it's rotational speed is (at approx. 50 RPM) while experiencing gravitational effects that are significantly different than experienced by the other clock.
> 
> Ed

I should have added that the moving clock is technically NOT moving relative to the other clock since its circular movements balance each other out, and it is NOT moving relative to the earth for the same reason.  However, it IS moving relative to the speed of light.  It is moving at a different speed relative to the speed of light than the control clock moves.  The speed limit for light has no direction.  You cannot exceed the speed of light while traveling in a straight line, nor while traveling in circles.  And the faster you travel relative to the speed of light, the slower time passes for you.

Ed

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#464379

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-07-14 13:58 -0700
Message-ID<2309e26c-3693-4d20-b84a-5c45dad0c355@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464377
El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 15:36:20 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 3:10:09 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
 
> > How can you assert that, when it is quite evident that one clock is sitting on
> > the ground (that Earth, Sun, galaxy, etc. are moving does not affect the results)
> > and the other clocks, inside the centrifuge, are moving in circles (relatively to
> > the ground clock)?
> > 
> > They for sure follow different trajectories: the inside the centrifuge follow
> > an helix, while the ground clock follows a straight line!!!
> 
> Okay.  We agree.  The spin of the earth, the movement of the earth around the sun, and the movement of the sun around the center of the Milky Way galaxy are all irrelevant to the experiment since they apply equally to both clocks.
> 
> The only relevant factors are that the ground clock follows a straight line around the earth's axis while the centrifuge clock follows a path that spins around a fixed point relative to the other clock as it moves together with the other clock around the earth's axis. 
> 

How can the ground clock follow a straight line around the Earth axis? that is
impossible. I would mean the clock to follow a tangential line, meaning it would
go into space. What you say is not even wrong.

The clocks in the centrifuge are spinning around the centrifuge axis (and not the Earth axis). The ground clock is just on the ground near the centrifuge.

In the experiment you want to determine how time behaves, so time is a relevant
coordinate, as are the space coordinates x,y,z.

The centrifuge is not moving along the z axis. The centrifuge is moving in a 
circle around the z axis. The helix trajectory is the combination of coordinates
x,y and t.

The ground clock is not moving with respect to the centrifuge, so its coordinates
x and y does not change but its t coordinate does change.

All this generates different trajectories for the clocks resulting in different
elapsed times.

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#464381

FromDirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com>
Date2018-07-14 23:20 +0200
Message-ID<pidpf2$u2a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#464379
Op 14-jul-2018 om 22:58 schreef Paparios:
> El sábado, 14 de julio de 2018, 15:36:20 (UTC-5), Ed Lake  escribió:
>> On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 3:10:09 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
>   
>>> How can you assert that, when it is quite evident that one clock is sitting on
>>> the ground (that Earth, Sun, galaxy, etc. are moving does not affect the results)
>>> and the other clocks, inside the centrifuge, are moving in circles (relatively to
>>> the ground clock)?
>>>
>>> They for sure follow different trajectories: the inside the centrifuge follow
>>> an helix, while the ground clock follows a straight line!!!
>>
>> Okay.  We agree.  The spin of the earth, the movement of the earth around the sun, and the movement of the sun around the center of the Milky Way galaxy are all irrelevant to the experiment since they apply equally to both clocks.
>>
>> The only relevant factors are that the ground clock follows a straight line around the earth's axis while the centrifuge clock follows a path that spins around a fixed point relative to the other clock as it moves together with the other clock around the earth's axis.
>>
> 
> How can the ground clock follow a straight line around the Earth axis? that is
> impossible. I would mean the clock to follow a tangential line, meaning it would
> go into space. What you say is not even wrong.
> 
> The clocks in the centrifuge are spinning around the centrifuge axis (and not the Earth axis). The ground clock is just on the ground near the centrifuge.
> 
> In the experiment you want to determine how time behaves, so time is a relevant
> coordinate, as are the space coordinates x,y,z.
> 
> The centrifuge is not moving along the z axis. The centrifuge is moving in a
> circle around the z axis. The helix trajectory is the combination of coordinates
> x,y and t.
> 
> The ground clock is not moving with respect to the centrifuge, so its coordinates
> x and y does not change but its t coordinate does change.
> 
> All this generates different trajectories for the clocks resulting in different
> elapsed times.
> 

You are wasting his time again ;-)

Dirk Vdm

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#464384

From"Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net>
Date2018-07-14 15:10 -0700
Message-ID<c565c50a-a641-4415-be07-241a233b3914@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464371
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 12:56:41 PM UTC-7, Ed Lake wrote:
>  
> The centrifuge experiment has gravitational time dilation ADDING TO velocity time dilation.

Imbecile. Incurable. 

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#464368

Fromhallstoncliff@gmail.com
Date2018-07-14 11:34 -0700
Message-ID<851cc332-c80b-403f-ba86-7fff68bbac08@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464358
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 10:41:17 AM UTC-7, Ed Lake wrote:
> I'm only interested in velocities and gravity.  Those are the factors 
> that affect time dilation in the propose centrifuge experiment.

No, you misunderstand.  The time dilation in a centrifuge where the clock has speed v (equal to the radius multiplied by the rotational speed) is simply (1/2)(v/c)^2 seconds per second.  This can be computed in two different ways:  

(1)  In terms of the non-rotating lab frame, there is no gravity, there is only speed, and the usual formula of special relativity predicts (1/2)(v/c)^2 seconds per second.

(2) In terms of the rotating frame of the centrifuge, there is no speed, but there is a (pseudo)gravitational force, which sets up a potential difference between the center and the end of the centrifuge arm, yielding a prediction of (1/2)(v/c)^2 seconds per second.

This is not two different effects, it is the same effect, expressed in terms of two different systems of reference, one inertial and one rotating.  This is confirmed by all the experimental results with centrifuges (that you choose to ignore).

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#464373

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-07-14 13:08 -0700
Message-ID<35737a70-66c2-4235-a882-b5c3f57b509b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464368
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 1:34:13 PM UTC-5, hallst...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 10:41:17 AM UTC-7, Ed Lake wrote:
> > I'm only interested in velocities and gravity.  Those are the factors 
> > that affect time dilation in the propose centrifuge experiment.
> 
> No, you misunderstand.  The time dilation in a centrifuge where the clock has speed v (equal to the radius multiplied by the rotational speed) is simply (1/2)(v/c)^2 seconds per second.  This can be computed in two different ways:  
> 
> (1)  In terms of the non-rotating lab frame, there is no gravity, there is only speed, and the usual formula of special relativity predicts (1/2)(v/c)^2 seconds per second.
> 
> (2) In terms of the rotating frame of the centrifuge, there is no speed, but there is a (pseudo)gravitational force, which sets up a potential difference between the center and the end of the centrifuge arm, yielding a prediction of (1/2)(v/c)^2 seconds per second.
> 
> This is not two different effects, it is the same effect, expressed in terms of two different systems of reference, one inertial and one rotating.  This is confirmed by all the experimental results with centrifuges (that you choose to ignore).

You are talking about mathematical models.  You devise different models for different effects.  I am talking about how time works.  

Time slows down for a moving object.  Time slows down for an object as it experiences more and more gravity.  

If you have two clocks that are stationary relative to the other, and then you move one of the clocks in a circle at high velocity to generate centrifugal force, the moving clock will slow down due to both velocity and gravitational time dilation.  The fact that you do not have a mathematical model for this is irrelevant.

Ed

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#464387

Fromhallstoncliff@gmail.com
Date2018-07-14 18:07 -0700
Message-ID<6c76bd3a-21ee-4924-8206-680f2ea5474d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#464373
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 1:08:18 PM UTC-7, Ed Lake wrote:
> If you have two clocks that are stationary relative to the other, and 
> then you move one of the clocks in a circle at high velocity to generate
> centrifugal force, the moving clock will slow down due to both velocity 
> and gravitational time dilation.  

We know exactly how much ideal clocks slow down when in a centrifuge, because it has been measured, and the results confirmed the predictions very precisely.  They slow by exactly (1/2)(v/c)^2 seconds per second.  Do you dispute this?

> The fact that you do not have a mathematical model for this is irrelevant.

We DO have a mathematical model that predicts the amount of time dilation in a centrifuge (and every other circumstance) with amazing precision.

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