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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #374992 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-01-27 19:42 -0800 |
| Last post | 2016-01-28 09:46 -0700 |
| Articles | 6 on this page of 66 — 14 participants |
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Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 19:42 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-01-28 04:44 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 19:48 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-28 15:28 +1100
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-27 22:58 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-28 19:57 +1100
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-28 01:07 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-28 22:08 +1100
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-28 03:51 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-29 10:53 +1100
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 19:31 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:40 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-28 22:29 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 22:57 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:08 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 23:18 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:24 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:25 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:19 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:30 -0600
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 12:21 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 10:48 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 13:55 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 13:16 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-29 00:35 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Polikwaptiwa <polikw@polikwamail.org> - 2016-01-30 16:32 +0000
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 18:02 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:19 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 23:23 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:28 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 23:39 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:56 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 10:09 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-01-30 11:34 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:20 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-29 23:12 +1100
Re: Car decelerates... Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> - 2016-01-29 12:33 +0000
Re: Car decelerates... Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-30 22:16 +1100
Re: Car decelerates... Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-01-30 12:25 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-30 22:34 +1100
Re: Car decelerates... Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-01-30 13:45 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-29 04:42 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:17 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-29 06:23 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-01-29 06:17 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-01-28 13:37 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-28 19:33 +0000
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 20:08 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 20:28 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 20:34 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 20:50 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-27 23:00 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 23:34 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 07:23 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 09:59 -0600
Re: Car decelerates... mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-01-28 22:27 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> - 2016-01-28 16:49 +0000
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 22:29 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 20:53 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 07:47 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> - 2016-01-28 18:22 +0000
Re: Car decelerates... Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 22:31 +0100
Re: Car decelerates... Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 23:59 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 00:19 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... jamesl51165@gmail.com - 2016-01-28 08:18 -0800
Re: Car decelerates... Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2016-01-28 09:46 -0700
Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]
| From | Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-28 18:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n8dm96$1mf4$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #375013 |
Poutnik wrote: > To keep a body not accelerating in accelerating frame, > the same force as the fictitious one but the opposite has act upon the > body. No shit, Sherlock. > For the rotating accelerating frames like the natural Earth frame, there > are 3 fictitious forces. > Centrifugal force, related to the body position. > Coriolis force, related to the body velocity.( the most known ) > Euler force, related to acceleration of rotation, negligible for Earth. Which one is not fictitious then? What a moron.
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-28 22:31 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <n8e16k$hfc$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #375051 |
Dne 28/01/2016 v 19:22 Juan Sebastián napsal(a): > Poutnik wrote: > >> To keep a body not accelerating in accelerating frame, >> the same force as the fictitious one but the opposite has act upon the >> body. > > No shit, Sherlock. > >> For the rotating accelerating frames like the natural Earth frame, there >> are 3 fictitious forces. >> Centrifugal force, related to the body position. >> Coriolis force, related to the body velocity.( the most known ) >> Euler force, related to acceleration of rotation, negligible for Earth. > > Which one is not fictitious then? What a moron. > As you have to ask, you have obvioulsy no idea. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer ) Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.
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| From | Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-27 23:59 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ef395c60-2437-43c6-852b-6ffedcfe25f6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #374992 |
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 7:42:47 PM UTC-8, Jon Price wrote: > Drivers body moves forward. From cars reference frame, what causes > forward body movement? The inertial. <shrug> > A gravitational field? No. <shrug> However, a balloon filled with helium which is lighter than air would move in the opposite direction. The following channel did an episode for this phenomenon, but Koobee Wublee cannot find it now. <shrug> https://www.youtube.com/user/destinws2/videos
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| From | Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-28 00:19 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <bb74a19f-f947-4125-a6c0-4f6542056f5c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #375025 |
Check my description of scenario in immediate previous post in this thread. There is no inertia if consider scenario with cars reference frame at rest. But I have heard of balloon example before. Balloon moves opposite way just like there is a gravitational field. (Balloon moves "up.") And driver moves "down." ?
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| From | jamesl51165@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-28 08:18 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <0fbcface-a16d-4066-9658-8ac899ea6891@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #374992 |
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 7:42:47 PM UTC-8, Jon Price wrote: > Drivers body moves forward. > > From cars reference frame, what causes forward body movement? > > A gravitational field? Beyond the field there is a second gravity this is weight opposite to change in speed. We get a push forward from a slowdown. It is gravity of "change in speed" for the atom. Matter has its own form of G's by motion. No. The backward... Earth... ground moving underneath the car. Mitchell Raemsch
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| From | Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-28 09:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <56AA45E1.7020002@comcast.net> |
| In reply to | #374992 |
On 1/27/16 8:42 PM, Jon Price wrote: > Drivers body moves forward. > > From cars reference frame, what causes forward body movement? > > A gravitational field? > Using a frame of reference in which the observer, who's perspective is being given, is perpetually located at the spatial origin does NOT require that the observer consider himself to be unaccelerated. This same thing happens in the classic twin "paradox", at the (often assumed) instantaneous turnaround when the rocket-twin fires his rocket. It is perfectly OK (and vastly simpler and less contorted) for the rocket-twin to contend that his rocket causes him to suddenly accelerate (and to essentially instantaneously change his velocity wrt the perpetually-inertial home-twin). The alternate GR-equivalent explanation is that the rocket-twin contends that he is perpetually inertial, and that he uses his rocket only to counteract the sudden gravitational field that is somehow momentarily mysteriously switched on everywhere, and which causes everyone and everything ELSE to suddenly accelerate. Those other people FEEL no acceleration, because gravity works on each tiny piece of a person's body, and no internal stresses in their bodies are produced, because none of those pieces are acted on by any other force. The rocket-twin DOES feel a force, from his rocket firing, because that force does NOT act directly on each of his body pieces, but only directly on a few of those pieces (like those pieces in contact with the seat of his spacecraft), thus producing internal stresses in his body. As an explanation of the twin "paradox", the GR-equivalent explanation is clumsy, unnecessary, and needlessly confusing. Its value was really only as a consistency check on the general relativity theory of gravitation (and on some of its early results), and as an illustration of the equivalence principle. -- https://sites.google.com/site/cadoequation/cado-reference-frame "Accelerated Observers in Special Relativity", PHYSICS ESSAYS, December 1999, p629. All you ever need to know about the twin "paradox".
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