Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #364403 > unrolled thread

The Fourth Dimension

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics.relativity

Contents

  The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 12:04 -0700
    Re: The Fourth Dimension gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-09-17 14:07 -0500
    Re: The Fourth Dimension Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-09-17 12:55 -0700
      Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 13:31 -0700
    Re: The Fourth Dimension Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-17 15:58 -0500
      Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 14:40 -0700
        Re: The Fourth Dimension benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 01:05 -0400
          Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 22:42 -0700
          Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 23:01 -0700
            Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:40 +0200
              Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 23:59 -0700
                Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 10:28 +0200
                  Re: The Fourth Dimension mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-18 01:51 -0700
                Re: The Fourth Dimension Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:23 -0500
                  Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 15:41 +0200
                  Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-18 10:56 -0700
        Re: The Fourth Dimension Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:20 -0500
      Re: The Fourth Dimension mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-17 23:28 -0700
    The Fourth Dimension fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-09-17 14:49 -0700
    Re: The Fourth Dimension JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-17 15:46 -0700
      Re: The Fourth Dimension JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-17 15:48 -0700
        Re: The Fourth Dimension kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-17 20:14 -0400
          Re: The Fourth Dimension JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-17 19:50 -0700
            Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 22:37 -0700
              Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:22 +0200
              Re: The Fourth Dimension JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 12:01 -0700
            Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:00 +0200
              Re: The Fourth Dimension kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-18 03:00 -0400
                Re: The Fourth Dimension mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-18 01:09 -0700
                Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 10:33 +0200
        Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 07:56 +0200
      Re: The Fourth Dimension mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-17 23:30 -0700
    Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:20 +0200
      Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 11:19 +0200
        Re: The Fourth Dimension mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-18 02:33 -0700

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#364422

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, I wrote:

> And of course using feet in aviation just drives me nuts.

And degrees Fahrenheit.

--
Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364424

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:48:34 -0700 (PDT), JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, I wrote:
>
>> And of course using feet in aviation just drives me nuts.
>
>And degrees Fahrenheit.

       What?     You don't like using the rudder pedals?

        The convention is a shortened altitude, the convention
is the English language, and they started using Celsius,
but had problems with people getting carb icing in private
aviation because the Celsius unit is too large.

       Didn't they go to Celsius decimals?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364427

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 5:14:31 PM UTC-7, kefischer wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:48:34 -0700 (PDT), JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, I wrote:
> >
> >> And of course using feet in aviation just drives me nuts.
> >
> >And degrees Fahrenheit.
> 
>        What?     You don't like using the rudder pedals?
> 
>         The convention is a shortened altitude, the convention
> is the English language, and they started using Celsius,
> but had problems with people getting carb icing in private
> aviation because the Celsius unit is too large.
> 
>        Didn't they go to Celsius decimals?

I fly a paraglider which means everything is metric (i.e. normal!) because there
are no US paragliding equipment manufacturers (the sport is singularly unpopular
in the States, nobody knows why, it's a big mystery, Europe has 60 (sixty) 
_times_ more paragliding pilots). So my wing is French, my harness is Korean,
my rescue parachute is German, and my variometer is Swiss. The pilots here
don't even bother using British units except perhaps when reading the adiabatic
lapse rates on the NOAA web site :-)

--
Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364437

JanPB wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 5:14:31 PM UTC-7, kefischer wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:48:34 -0700 (PDT), JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, I wrote:
> > >
> > >> And of course using feet in aviation just drives me nuts.
> > >
> > >And degrees Fahrenheit.
> >
> >        What?     You don't like using the rudder pedals?
> >
> >         The convention is a shortened altitude, the convention
> > is the English language, and they started using Celsius,
> > but had problems with people getting carb icing in private
> > aviation because the Celsius unit is too large.
> >
> >        Didn't they go to Celsius decimals?
> 
> I fly a paraglider which means everything is metric (i.e. normal!) because there
> are no US paragliding equipment manufacturers (the sport is singularly unpopular
> in the States, nobody knows why, it's a big mystery,

You have to be stupid to paragliding, or make paragliding equipment. You
get sued for
every accident...and you get killed paragliding. Leave that sport for
countries outside
the US, their lives don't matter.



 Europe has 60 (sixty)
> _times_ more paragliding pilots). So my wing is French, my harness is Korean,
> my rescue parachute is German, and my variometer is Swiss. The pilots here
> don't even bother using British units except perhaps when reading the adiabatic
> lapse rates on the NOAA web site :-)
> 
> --
> Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364447

Dne 18/09/2015 v 07:37 The Starmaker napsal(a):

> 
> You have to be stupid to paragliding, or make paragliding equipment. You
> get sued for
> every accident...and you get killed paragliding. Leave that sport for
> countries outside
> the US, their lives don't matter.
> 
Comparing to crazy things many Americans do or think ,
paragliding is normal.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364501

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 10:37:55 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> JanPB wrote:
> > 
> > On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 5:14:31 PM UTC-7, kefischer wrote:
> > > On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:48:34 -0700 (PDT), JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, I wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> And of course using feet in aviation just drives me nuts.
> > > >
> > > >And degrees Fahrenheit.
> > >
> > >        What?     You don't like using the rudder pedals?
> > >
> > >         The convention is a shortened altitude, the convention
> > > is the English language, and they started using Celsius,
> > > but had problems with people getting carb icing in private
> > > aviation because the Celsius unit is too large.
> > >
> > >        Didn't they go to Celsius decimals?
> > 
> > I fly a paraglider which means everything is metric (i.e. normal!) because there
> > are no US paragliding equipment manufacturers (the sport is singularly unpopular
> > in the States, nobody knows why, it's a big mystery,
> 
> You have to be stupid to paragliding, or make paragliding equipment. You
> get sued for
> every accident...and you get killed paragliding. Leave that sport for
> countries outside
> the US, their lives don't matter.

Accident statistics are very similar to those of motorcycle accidents 
(according to police and insurance companies).

You are correct about suing for everything in the US, that's probably
one of the reasons for the un-popularity here. Otherwise it's surprising
as one would think birdlike flight would be the perfect symbol for
"traditional American values".

--
Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364440

Dne 18/09/2015 v 04:50 JanPB napsal(a):

> 
> I fly a paraglider which means everything is metric (i.e. normal!) because there
> are no US paragliding equipment manufacturers (the sport is singularly unpopular
> in the States, nobody knows why, it's a big mystery, Europe has 60 (sixty) 
> _times_ more paragliding pilots). So my wing is French, my harness is Korean,
> my rescue parachute is German, and my variometer is Swiss. The pilots here
> don't even bother using British units except perhaps when reading the adiabatic
> lapse rates on the NOAA web site :-)
> 

OTOH, the airplane industry, traffic control and related weather reports
use feet, unfortunately.


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364453

On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 08:00:58 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Dne 18/09/2015 v 04:50 JanPB napsal(a):
>
>> 
>> I fly a paraglider which means everything is metric (i.e. normal!) because there
>> are no US paragliding equipment manufacturers (the sport is singularly unpopular
>> in the States, nobody knows why, it's a big mystery, Europe has 60 (sixty) 
>> _times_ more paragliding pilots). So my wing is French, my harness is Korean,
>> my rescue parachute is German, and my variometer is Swiss. The pilots here
>> don't even bother using British units except perhaps when reading the adiabatic
>> lapse rates on the NOAA web site :-)
>> 
>
>OTOH, the airplane industry, traffic control and related weather reports
>use feet, unfortunately.

        The important thing is for everybody IN THE WORLD
to use the same system in "controlled" airspace, else
a lot more accidents would happen.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364458

On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 9:00:13 AM UTC+2, kefischer wrote:

>         The important thing is for everybody IN THE WORLD
> to use the same system in "controlled" airspace, else
> a lot more accidents would happen.

You're outdated for more, than 100 years. Accidents?
Who cares? Great Guru and his Revolutionary Revolution 
has proven, that it is SYMMETRY, that matters.

We re not limited to clocks indicating boring
the same t'=t. Not anymore. Great Guru has
set us free. Hip Hip Hurrah!!!!!!! Let's all 
praise Great Guru and his Ingenious Shit.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364460

On 09/18/2015 09:00 AM, kefischer wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 08:00:58 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>
>> OTOH, the airplane industry, traffic control and related weather reports
>> use feet, unfortunately.
> 
>         The important thing is for everybody IN THE WORLD
> to use the same system in "controlled" airspace, else
> a lot more accidents would happen.
> 

Have I objected ?

But imperial system should be abandoned
in professional scientific and technology use,
left alone for personal usage.

Air industry uses different international standard
for historical reasons.


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes a great man humble, but a small man arrogant.

Eventual Wikipedia articles are provided with intention
of a convenient reference, not as an evidence, argument,
and usually not as a primary source of my knowledge.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364439

Dne 18/09/2015 v 00:48 JanPB napsal(a):
> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, I wrote:
> 
>> And of course using feet in aviation just drives me nuts.
> 
> And degrees Fahrenheit.
> 
And pound per inch squared


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364449

On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 12:46:47 AM UTC+2, JanPB wrote:

> In analytical(*) mechanics time can be frequently treated as an extra
> coordinate. 

Not in your Ingenious Shit, however, as (according to
your mumble) it was not able to establish it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364445

Dne 17/09/2015 v 21:04 The Starmaker napsal(a):

> Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
> 
One popular SR book ( Spacetime physics I guess )

comes with the analogy
there was once upon the time a weird city,
where East West distances were measured in metres,
while North south ones in the sacred units.

And that there were 2 groups of surveyors that hated each other.
the day one using compass, the night one using stars.

And that was problem, as "day north" was not "night north"

The data and maps of both groups were not compatible,
as N-S and E-W distances they measured did not fit each other
and maps of the city were rotated.

It was a big problem, until came one surveyor,
that secretly studied in both surveyor schools.

And this guy came with deadly heretic idea
to recalculate the value in sacred units into meters.

Using unified calculations he found interesting invariants ,
values being the same in both systems, and transformations,
comparing data from both groups.

It is funny, until one realizes,
this weird city is Earth
the sacred unit is second.
Not fitting distances are length contraction and time dilation
Not fitting maps are reality in different inertial frames
and the transformation is the Lorentz one.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364464

On 09/18/2015 08:20 AM, Poutnik wrote:

P.S.:
Citizens in that weird city could not calculate general distances
as invariant wrt used surveyor system
as we can do

D = sqrt( (delta_x)2 + (delta_y)2 ) .

They could just calculate differences in N-S and E-W coordinates
that differ for different surveyor systems.

But with smart guy invention,
they could do it after using
D = sqrt((E-W-metres)2 + (N-S-sacred-units . meters_per_sacred_unit)2 )

---
Similarly, our space-intervals and time-intervals differs
in different surveyor systems of different inertial frames.

We are with our different inertial frames in the similar position
as the weird city with their metering and surveying systems.
the values do not match each other.

But if we recalculate sacred unit 1s to equivalent length 299 792 458 m
and if we define this length as the 4th dimension of now called
space-time, we can define space-time interval
sqrt ( delta_x^2 + delta_y^2 + delta_z^2 - c^2. delta_t^2 ).

This distance is invariant wrt Lorentz transformation,
and not depend on used inertial system.

Similarly as distance D is invariant
wrt to translation and rotation of used cartesian coordinates.



-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes a great man humble, but a small man arrogant.

Eventual Wikipedia articles are provided with intention
of a convenient reference, not as an evidence, argument,
and usually not as a primary source of my knowledge.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#364465

On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 11:19:02 AM UTC+2, Poutnik wrote:
> On 09/18/2015 08:20 AM, Poutnik wrote:
> 
> P.S.:
> Citizens in that weird city could not calculate general distances
> as invariant wrt used surveyor system
> as we can do

[And more imagination of a relativistic moron].

Actually, sad truth is, that in reality there is
no "different inertial frames", and that's why your 
insane shit is generally unable to determine 
space  distance between events, time distance 
between events, coordinates of events, 
any dimensions and your moronic interval too. 
The only thing it can do for sure, is praising
Great Guru.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics.relativity

csiph-web