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Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics
Subject Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox
Date 2015-08-29 11:23 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <mrs4oa$nbe$1@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References <mrpl8d$4jb$1@speranza.aioe.org> <V9-dnThKaa2jlHzInZ2dnUU7_82dnZ2d@giganews.com> <mrs0a5$9j0$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> writes:

>Tom Roberts wrote:

>> You are presumably thinking that if the bottom of the wheel does not
>> slip along the track, and the axle moves with speed 0.5 c, then the top
>> of the wheel moves with speed c relative to the tack, and cannot go any
>> faster. That thought process is WRONG because speeds do NOT add that
>> way.

>Does not matter how it adds. The inherent REQUIREMENTS of the wheel 
>DEMANDS the top moving faster than the speed of light, which is IMPOSSIBLE.

Your supposed "REQUIREMENTS" implicitly assumes that the relativistic
velocities add linearly, like they do at low speed.

>Please remark. This is not about APPEARANCE or Length Contraction and 
>such. Since a wheel DEMANDS the top of it MOVES FASTER than the wheel 
>itself (say its center if your wish, but is about the wheel entirely 
>actually)

And it does. Do the math for what the velocity of the top of the wheel
is if the axle is moving at 0.5c, or any other speed you choose.

>> This is easy to see when looked at from the rest frame of the wheel
>> center/axle. In this frame all points of the rim have the same speed,
>> and the wheel can clearly rotate with any speed as long as its rim speed
>> is less than c relative to this frame. Now pick an instant in time and
>> the point on the rim in contact with the track -- at that time that
>> point is at rest in the track frame.

>Completely nonsense.

No, that is how wheels work.

>> Assume the rim moves with speed 0.99 c in the axle frame. Transforming
>> to the track frame, the bottom of the wheel moves with speed 0, the axle
>> moves with speed 0.99 c, and the top of the wheel moves with speed
>> 0.9999495 c. All is well.

>NO, since as already said. The wheel DEMANDS the top moving faster than 
>that. This is not about the addition of SR speeds.

Yes it is.  Your supposed "DEMAND" implicitly assumes that the speed must
be 0.99c + 0.99c = 1.98c.  Relativistic velocities don't add like that.

Now go change your nym again.

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Thread

The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-28 12:47 +0000
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-28 12:51 +0000
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 15:58 +0000
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 16:00 +0000
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 09:11 -0700
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 16:59 +0000
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 10:17 -0700
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 17:22 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 10:28 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 17:35 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 10:45 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 10:48 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 17:56 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-30 14:58 -0400
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 17:52 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 10:59 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 18:04 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 11:06 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 18:51 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 11:55 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 19:27 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 17:45 +0000
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-28 19:55 +0000
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-08-28 15:20 -0700
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 16:42 -0700
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-28 20:45 -0400
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-08-29 10:44 -0700
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 19:30 +0000
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 12:39 -0700
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-08-29 17:18 -0700
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 17:28 -0700
                Pretender Stephane Baune continues to puff himself "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 17:40 -0700
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 09:53 +0000
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 15:43 -0500
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 16:30 -0500
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 10:15 +0000
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 12:18 -0500
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 17:24 +0000
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-30 13:56 -0500
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 19:20 +0000
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-31 19:56 +0000
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-28 20:22 -0500
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 21:28 -0700
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 21:35 -0700
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 21:39 -0700
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 21:50 -0700
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox YBM <ybmess@nooos.fr.invalid> - 2015-09-02 00:42 -0300
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-01 20:59 -0700
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 21:56 -0700
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 22:37 -0700
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 22:59 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 23:15 -0700
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 21:38 -0700
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 21:45 -0700
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 21:59 -0700
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 10:11 +0000
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 10:08 +0000
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 10:08 +0000
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-29 11:23 +0000
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 11:50 +0000
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 05:17 -0700
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 12:21 +0000
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Photon Beam" <none@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 08:03 -0700
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 04:24 -0700
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 11:49 +0000
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 05:10 -0700
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 12:20 +0000
            Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 07:35 -0700
              Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 08:34 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 08:43 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 08:59 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 09:03 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 09:08 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 12:35 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 16:54 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 19:56 +0000
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 13:07 -0700
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 20:12 +0000
                Re: Pretender Stephane Baune resurfaces after thorough beating taken in the "Twins Paradox" thread "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 16:56 -0700
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-29 08:23 -0400
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 12:26 +0000
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-29 08:43 -0400
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 04:29 -0700
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 11:46 +0000
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-29 13:51 -0500
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 19:27 +0000
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 10:34 +0000
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Margarita Cibulkova <margac@terraspace.au> - 2015-08-29 10:38 +0000
  The Wheels/Track Paradox fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-08-29 08:23 -0700
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 17:49 -0700
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 19:25 -0700
      Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 19:31 -0700
        Re: Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 20:39 -0700
          Re: Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 20:52 -0700
            Re: Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 21:13 -0700
              Re: Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 21:22 -0700
                Re: Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 22:06 -0700
                Re: Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 23:34 -0700
                Re: Pathological liar Stephane Baune inserts foot in mouth. Again. Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 10:07 +0000
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-29 22:02 -0700
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 22:17 -0700
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-29 23:37 -0700
      Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 10:13 +0000
        Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-30 03:29 -0700
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 10:36 +0000
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-30 03:53 -0700
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 11:30 +0000
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-30 08:31 -0400
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-30 07:06 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 15:33 +0000
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 10:39 +0000
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-30 03:41 -0700
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 06:29 -0700
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-30 07:18 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-30 13:47 -0500
          Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 06:26 -0700
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 13:34 +0000
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 15:35 +0000
            Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-30 07:11 -0700
              Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-30 07:30 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-31 02:30 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-31 06:20 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com - 2015-08-31 06:26 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-31 06:27 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Thomas Yee <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 06:34 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-31 06:39 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Thomas Yee <ignorantravingcrackpot@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 06:47 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-31 06:55 -0700
                Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 06:53 -0700
                NPA Member , Crackpot Stephane Baune chimes in "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-31 06:58 -0700
                Re: NPA Member , Crackpot Stephane Baune chimes in Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-31 18:27 +0000
                Re: NPA Member , Crackpot Stephane Baune chimes in rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 12:12 -0700
                Re: NPA Member , Crackpot Stephane Baune chimes in "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-08-31 12:36 -0700
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 10:04 +0000
  Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-08-30 14:44 +1000
    Re: The Wheels/Track Paradox Reginald Ehrett <chasi@competence.org> - 2015-08-30 10:21 +0000

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