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Re: Why haven't we had another scientific revolution in physics yet? Hasn't it been long enough since general relativity and quantum mechanics? - Quora

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Why haven't we had another scientific revolution in physics yet? Hasn't it been long enough since general relativity and quantum mechanics? - Quora
Date	2018-08-12 20:52 +0200
Message-ID	<ftbe03F3fntU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <e93a5edb-c10d-5c64-22a7-c86084b39f52@PointedEars.de> <d6f61e27-707f-4802-be11-373b62c2a482@googlegroups.com> <f0ec9f44-73dc-a5e0-0bf1-49c315dc2cf2@PointedEars.de> <ft878bFbr7rU1@mid.individual.net> <82b214ba-baca-340a-3b6f-3451db26886b@PointedEars.de>

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Am 12.08.2018 um 08:01 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:

>>> - Einstein denounced his original Prussian citizenship in 1901 to avoid
>>>     military service, and later became a Swiss citizen.  He was basically
>>>     a foreigner and did not know many people in Switzerland.  Some of those
>>>     whom he got to know and who could have helped his career otherwise, for
>>>     example Prof. Heinrich Friedrich Weber at the Polytechnic, he annoyed by
>>>     his direct manner and open challenging all authority.
>>
>>
>> Einstein was not a citizen of Prussia,
> 
> He was; but that was later (1914–1918), when he was in Berlin (then the
> capital of the Kingdom of Prussia).  Einstein’s work was then published in
> the “Meeting Reports of the Royal Prussian Academy of Sciences”
> (Sitzungsberichte der Königlich-Preußischen Akademie der Wissenschaften) in
> Berlin; Planck made Einstein a member of the Academy and Einstein presented
> the field equations of general relativity there in 1915.
> 
>> since the name of the country he was born in was 'Deutsches Reich' (German Empire).
> 
> Ex falso quodlibet.  The German EMPIRE (1871–1918) was ruled by the German
> EMPEROR (Kaiser) and consisted also of various kingdoms, including the
> Kingdom of Prussia.

No.

Germany was a nation state from 1871 on. The founding duchies and 
kingdoms were then part of the large state called 'German Empire'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire

So you had only one German citizenship, not citizenship in Prussia.

But Ulm was not a part of Prussia anyhow, but a part of the Kingdom of 
Würtemberg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

Quote
"Albert Einstein was born in Ulm, in the Kingdom of Württemberg in the 
German Empire, on 14 March 1879."


> Einstein was born in Ulm in 1879, then in the Kingdom of Württemberg
> instead, of which therefore he was a subject (not: citizen).  The family
> moved to Munich, then in the Kingdom of Bavaria, in 1880, but apparently
> formally he stayed a subject of Württemberg until 1896 (when he became
> stateless).
> 
>      [This might actually be a historical error in “Genius” when Einstein,
>       still at school in Munich (BAVARIA) in 1894, says to his teacher:
>       “Speaking truthfully, sir, your mere presence spoils my respect for
>       the future of PRUSSIAN mathematics.“.  On the other hand, the teacher
>       may have been from Prussia and Einstein knew that.
> 
>       <https://youtu.be/ZyYqyYAKGC0?t=146>]
> 
>> This nation was founded in 1871 from several smaller countries, among
>> them Prussia.
> 
> Not countries, but constituent STATES: kingdoms, grand duchies, duchies,
> principalities, free Hanseatic cities, and the Imperial Territory of
> Alsace-Lorraine (Elsaß-Lothringen).  With the exception of the imperial
> territory, the Emperor delegated administrative power to the local
> rulers/governments.


The understanding of the terms 'state', 'country' and 'nation' is 
different in German than in e.g. the USA.

'Country' means 'Land' in German and actually means territory (surface 
of planet Earth). So a state (=nation) has a certain part of the surface 
of the Earth as its territory, which is called 'Land' (country) in German.

'State' is more or less meant as the functionality of how the country is 
managed (by some kind of government and administration).

'Nation' is used in a different way than in the Anglo-Saxons world.

E.g. the US have this racisistic view, to call the so called 'Indians' 
'first nations', while in the German view the USA is a nation and all 
people there are citizens of this one single nation.

Subdivisions of the country are called 'states', which meant like 
'departement' in French. Those had no separate citizenship.

So Einstein was citizens of the German Empire, but acquired the Swiss 
citizenship later.

With this he lost his German citizenship, since dual citizenships were 
not allowed at that time in Germany.

>> So, when Einstein was born there was no country called 'Prussia' any more.
> 
> NONSENSE.  The Kingdom of Prussia (Königreich Preußen) existed until 1918,
> when the German Emperor who was also King of Prussia was forced to abdicate;
> following that, the Free State of Prussia (Freistaat Preußen) existed
> (formally) until 1947.


Well, that is actually true. The parts of the German Empire had certain 
rights, very similar to the states in the USA. The former independent 
country Prussia existed in some form until after WW II.

But Prussia was part of Germany since 1871 and not independent. Only 
Bavaria had a separate army until after WW I, but not Prussia.

They also had no separate citizenship.

>> Second reason: the town 'Ulm' was never a part of Prussia, but belonged
>> to the country called 'Kingdom of Würtemberg'
> 
> Almost correct (it was a STATE, not a country; the country was the German
> Empire).

No. Würtemberg was a separate independent kingdom and its relation to 
Prussia were like those between France and Denmark. And Germany did not 
exist at all until 1871.

> 
>> Third reason: apparently Einstein had both citizenships (Swiss and German).
> 
> Wrong.  Due to his renouncing of his (Württemberg) "citizenship" in order to
> escape military service (in Württemberg/Germany), Einstein was STATELESS
> from 1896, until 1901 when he became a citizen of Switzerland.

You mean: he escaped conscription?

Well, then he certainly had reason not to return to Germany.

>> I'm not really certain about that, but Einstein worked in Berlin as
>> professor and head of the Berlin 'Kaiser Wilhelm Institut', for what
>> German citizenship was mandatory.
> 
> A subject (perhaps citizen) of the Kingdom of Prussia, not German
> citizenship.  There was no German citizenship before the Weimar Republic
> (when Emperor Wilhelm Ⅱ was forced to abdicate in 1918 after World War Ⅰ
> that he started and lost).


Tricky question..

But actually there existed something similar:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenat

" Nun bestand nach Art. 3 der Reichsverfassung von 1871 für das gesamte 
Deutsche Reich ein gemeinsames Indigenat. "

The citizens of the entire Empire had something in common called 
'indiginat'. That roughly is 'birthright to settle in the country'.

(I'm actually insecure, whether or not they had all the same German 
passport or passports from their little kingdom.)

>> there was no war in sight in 1901, neither in Germany nor in
>> Switzerland,
> 
> Incorrect.
> 

Well, maybe..


TH

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