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Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics
Date 2017-02-26 20:43 +1100
Message-ID <ehfmasFs74lU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <e71a8b9f-6eba-4052-857b-62754ae7d370@googlegroups.com> <ehcvt7Fbq3aU1@mid.individual.net> <88a0b3d5-7345-4df2-a188-1689dc25cc63@googlegroups.com> <ehde5bFelstU1@mid.individual.net> <a370c772-c40b-42e3-aca6-0eef785237d1@googlegroups.com>

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On 26/02/2017 8:08 PM, matt.rush200@outlook.com wrote:
> Sylvia
>>> On 25/02/2017 9:47 PM, matt.r...@outlook.com wrote
>>>> SR does not require light to travel at c through water. It does require
>>>> that light travel at some fixed velocity through water (for a given
>>>> state; temperature, pressure, etc.), relative to the water. Further if
>>>> the water is moving relative to an observer, then the speed of the light
>>>> in the water relative to the observer obeys the velocity composition
>>>> rule identified in SR, rather than being the result of simple addition.
>>>> So far from falsifying SR, it verifies it.
>>
>>> In other words you have just admitted that light is observed to travel at
>>> variable speeds in the water frame, contrary to SR, and this needs to
>>> be "fixed" mathematically by the 'velocity composition rule' to falsely
>>> make it appear that it has a fixed velocity.
>>
>> What's variable about it? For a given state of the water, the velocity
>> relative to the water is fixed. That's all that SR requires, since that
>> is consistent with the requirement that the laws of physics be the same
>> for all inertial frames.
>
> It's not fixed if the speed of the source varies. Speed up the water flow
> and you also speed up the source relative to the water frame.
> So over time an observer in the water rest frame sees, in the experiment,
> lightspeed increase over time. That is not a fixed speed c in the water
> frame.
>

Why do you think the speed of the source is relevant? Even with sound 
waves the speed of the source doesn't affect the speed of the sound.

Sylvia.

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Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-23 17:27 -0600
  Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2017-02-23 19:23 -0800
  Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Serg Io <invliad@invalid.com> - 2017-02-23 21:35 -0600
    Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <nobody@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-24 06:20 -0500
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Serg Io <invliad@invalid.com> - 2017-02-24 06:22 -0600
  Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-23 23:02 -0800
  Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <nobody@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-24 05:28 -0500
    Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2017-02-24 20:00 +0000
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2017-02-25 03:19 -0500
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2017-02-25 17:48 +0000
          Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Bret Noss <osotr@rwtropsws.org> - 2017-02-25 18:41 +0000
            Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2017-02-25 19:07 +0000
              Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Bret Noss <osotr@rwtropsws.org> - 2017-02-25 19:35 +0000
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-25 13:34 -0600
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-25 17:01 -0500
          Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2017-02-25 22:21 +0000
            Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-25 17:56 -0500
              Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2017-02-26 01:22 +0000
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-25 21:18 -0500
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2017-02-26 02:58 +0000
          Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-26 15:44 -0600
            Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2017-02-26 22:45 -0500
              Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 07:22 -0600
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-27 16:53 -0500
    Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 14:41 -0800
  Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 03:45 -0800
  Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 03:48 -0800
    Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 07:33 -0600
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 06:50 -0800
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 10:09 -0600
  Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-24 06:27 -0800
    Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 09:14 -0600
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-24 07:42 -0800
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-24 12:44 -0800
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-25 13:34 -0600
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-27 16:35 +0000
    Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-24 17:40 +0000
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-24 12:45 -0800
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-27 07:10 +0000
  Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-24 07:11 -0800
    Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-25 20:08 +1100
      Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-25 02:47 -0800
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-25 12:55 +0100
          Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2017-02-25 11:36 -0800
          Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-26 15:01 +1100
        Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-26 00:12 +1100
          Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-26 15:06 +1100
            Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-26 07:13 -0800
              Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-27 12:59 +1100
            Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-27 01:08 +0000
              Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-27 13:00 +1100
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-27 07:15 +0000
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-27 19:58 +1100
          Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-26 01:08 -0800
            Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-26 20:43 +1100
              Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-26 06:26 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 08:57 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 09:15 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 09:37 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 09:49 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 10:00 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 10:12 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 10:18 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 10:59 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-27 09:57 +1100
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-27 00:42 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-27 20:10 +1100
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-27 12:05 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-28 12:24 +1100
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-27 18:11 -0800
                Re: Why should I learn mathematics to understand physics matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-27 18:00 -0800

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