Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #363693

Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE

Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Date	2015-09-10 11:54 -0700
References	<960c7c72-f1c3-4593-9bce-66d009ebc768@googlegroups.com> <96161d46-655f-4f0c-acdf-4969594831bc@googlegroups.com> <437993bb-d2ac-4ad7-9809-737e6768aba7@googlegroups.com> <5f9dc032-b6c9-45b1-8aa4-b75068ebb221@googlegroups.com> <3e5b5ecd-4c77-4c4e-a954-0a0f2f7104c8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<dfd435da-db70-4803-8d16-3cfd9dd1d1ee@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE
From	JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>

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On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 3:15:02 AM UTC-7, Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato wrote:
> El miércoles, 9 de septiembre de 2015, 18:28:17 (UTC-4), JanPB  escribió:
> > On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 1:38:17 PM UTC-7, Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato wrote:
> > > El miércoles, 9 de septiembre de 2015, 15:06:31 (UTC-4), Pentcho Valev  escribió:
> > > > The original version of Einstein's fundamental lie:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/ 
> > > >  ON THE ELECTRODYNAMICS OF MOVING BODIES, A. Einstein, 1905: "From this there ensues the following peculiar consequence. If at the points A and B of K there are stationary clocks which, viewed in the stationary system, are synchronous; and if the clock at A is moved with the velocity v along the line AB to B, then on its arrival at B the two clocks no longer synchronize, but the clock moved from A to B lags behind the other which has remained at B by tv^2/2c^2 (up to magnitudes of fourth and higher order), t being the time occupied in the journey from A to B." 
> > > >
> > > Here 1905 Einstein establishes very clear that it is the moving clock
> > > what lags the stationary one and not at the inverse. See in Section 3
> > > how it is the moving system what moves in stationary space, not at
> > > all a stationary system what moves in "moving space".
> > >   
> > > > http://blog.hasslberger.com/Dingle_SCIENCE_at_the_Crossroads.pdf 
> > > >  SCIENCE AT THE CROSSROADS, Herbert Dingle, p.27: "According to the special relativity theory, as expounded by Einstein in his original paper, two similar, regularly-running clocks, A and B, in uniform relative motion, must work at different rates. (...) How is the slower-working clock distinguished?" 
> > > > 
> > > > Dingle's question is rhetorical - the slower-working clock cannot be distinguished on the basis of Einstein's 1905 postulates alone. The postulates entail that:
> > > > 
> > > > (A) for an observer in the moving clock's system, the stationary clock at B lags behind the moving clock;
> > > > 
> > > > (B) for a stationary observer, the moving clock lags behind the stationary clock at B.
> > > > 
> > > > Clearly there is a contradiction which means that an underlying premise, Einstein's 1905 constant-speed-of-light postulate, is false.
> > > >
> > > Dingle and you are both wrong. In the original 1905 text does not
> > > exist at all any symmetric condition as the one (A) and (B) implies.
> > > 
> > > By the way, see in Section 2 how the second postulate applies
> > > explicitly only to a stationary system.
> > 
> > This is incorrect.
> >
> See the original 1905 text (Section 2):
> 
> [ 2. Any ray of light moves in the "stationary" system of
> co-ordinates with the determined velocity c, whether the ray be
> emitted by a stationary or by a moving body. Hence

Yes, but obviously the word "stationary" refers only to a system
we are merely to temporarily focus our attention on, nothing else.
If Einstein thought as you did, he'd never even bother to publish
the paper as it would be pretty much worthless.

--
Jan

Thread

EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-08 03:10 -0700
  Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-08 05:26 -0700
  Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-09 12:06 -0700
    Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 13:38 -0700
      Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 15:28 -0700
        Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 03:15 -0700
          Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 11:54 -0700
            Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 04:34 -0700
              Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-11 17:21 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:44 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-14 10:45 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 13:22 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-14 14:14 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-14 21:28 -0400
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE underante <underante@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-15 04:15 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-15 09:41 -0400
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 12:12 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-15 12:42 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 13:34 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-15 17:44 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 04:37 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2015-09-16 14:32 +0200
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 09:38 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2015-09-17 14:59 +0200
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE underante <underante@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-14 14:51 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-14 20:19 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-15 00:00 -0400
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-15 05:13 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-15 06:11 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 11:49 -0700
    Re: EINSTEIN'S FUNDAMENTAL LIE Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-09 18:18 -0700

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