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Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy

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On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 6:37:58 AM UTC+10, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 8/12/2015 3:03 PM, Y wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 5:51:08 AM UTC+10, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 8/12/2015 2:36 PM, Y wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 5:12:52 AM UTC+10, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> On 8/12/2015 1:02 PM, Y wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 3:09:59 AM UTC+10, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>> On 8/12/2015 11:19 AM, Y wrote:
> >>>>>>> If a system increases in entropy over time, then we should expect the state of that
> >>>>>>> system to become less predictable over time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I don't understand why you think this is true.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the reason you don't understand why this is true is because no unambiguous definition
> >>>>> in physics describes heat death of the universe.
> >>>>
> >>>> Really? What's the conflicting definitions you've run into?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We're discussing one right now. This is a common conversation.
> >>
> >> I'm sorry, I don't see any conflicting definitions of heat death in this
> >> conversation. What conflicting definitions have you run into?
> 
> Sooooo, none right?
> 
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> In a heath-death universe, the entropy is maximal and it is VERY
> >>>>>> predictable what happens in that universe -- practically nothing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well your assertion is hotly debatable. For starters, observation requires work or energy transfer
> >>>>> which wouldn't be possible in the scenario of heat death you mention. In the scenario of a universe
> >>>>> having experienced heat death, energy no longer transfers through systems. I can't imagine a system
> >>>>> MORE unpredictable than one that cannot be observed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, if you don't have any energy transfers enough to support
> >>>> observation, then you don't have energy transfers enough to do anything
> >>>> else, n'cest pas? Unless you think just about anything can happen in a
> >>>> universe without energy transfers....
> >>>
> >>> That isn't the point. The point is that you cannot make predictions about a system you cannot observe.
> >>> There really is no "maximum" entropy other than the complete inability to make predictions about the
> >>> arrangement of a system.
> >>
> >> I can fully predict that nothing will happen in a universe where there
> >> isn't enough energy transfer available to support observation. I think
> >> that's a pretty basic physical premise.
> >>
> >> Now if you think that once observation is impossible, then it's entirely
> >> possible for all sorts of wild goings-on to occur in the unobserved
> >> universe, just say so.
> >
> >
> > What you cannot predict is how that universe would be arranged, as I previously said.
> 
> OK, and in that universe, practically nothing is happening, as I 
> previously said.

Well nothing is happening, since there is no energy transfer, but you still cannot predict how it would be arranged after the maximum number of energetic transfers in the universe have already taken place. 


-y

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Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 09:19 -0700
  Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 09:22 -0700
  Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 12:09 -0500
    Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 11:02 -0700
      Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 14:12 -0500
        Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 12:36 -0700
          Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 12:42 -0700
            Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 15:36 -0500
            Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-12 18:33 -0700
          Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 14:51 -0500
            Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 13:03 -0700
              Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 15:37 -0500
                Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 14:42 -0700
                Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 14:44 -0700
                Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 16:45 -0500
                Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 15:52 -0700
                Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 18:00 -0500
                Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-12 17:25 -0700
                Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:19 -0500
  Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-12 23:21 -0500
    Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-13 06:50 -0700
      Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 18:59 +0000
        Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-14 20:13 -0500
    Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:22 -0700
      Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 16:50 +0200
      Re: Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 18:53 +0000
  Binomial expansion to 4th power - entropy fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-08-13 06:35 -0700

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