Re: Donald and the convergent sequence

From	"Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups	sci.math
Subject	Re: Donald and the convergent sequence
Date	2018-06-14 16:58 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<pfuoef$af3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <4291a7a6-0cf6-4cae-a28a-9ed0a786ffaa@googlegroups.com> <pfpl1t$a5c$1@dont-email.me> <edff20a3-675a-4477-ac75-667a18bfa6b2@googlegroups.com> <pftjav$d5p$1@dont-email.me> <fbfe1b78-329f-4d9e-8e1c-1b02e5ffe3b8@googlegroups.com>

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On 6/14/2018 6:55 AM, WM wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2018 13:25:25 UTC+2 schrieb Shobe, Martin:
>> On 6/13/2018 4:36 AM, WM wrote:
>>> Am Mittwoch, 13. Juni 2018 01:30:16 UTC+2 schrieb Shobe, Martin:
>>>> On 6/12/2018 6:09 AM, WM wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> "Greatest natural number" leads to contradictions like finished infinity or omega. These objects are not part of true mathematics.
>>>>
>>>> Then why do you keep treating it as existent?
>>>
>>> What is "existent"?
>>
>> Adjective. "Having reality or existence".	
>>
>>> In my opinion a notion is existing if it can be defined sufficiently such that two people can agree what is meant. Obviously this is here the case.
>>
>> We aren't talking about whether the notion exists. There's absolutely no
>> problem talking about inconsistent notions. There are plenty of those
>> and we do it all the time. You run into problems when you start treating
>> those notions as if they referred to something.
> 
> "Somethings" exist without definition, even without being known by someone. Numbers are nothings without definitions.

Changing the subject, eh?

>> E.g. how you treat
>> "Greatest natural number".
> 
> Think of the greatest natural number known by Archimedes. That is no contradiction. If numbers are not existing without being thought of, the greatest natural number ever thought of is no contradiction, unknown though and not a fixed object like every potential infinity.

>>>> It still leads to those
>>>> contradictions.
>>>
>>> "Greatest natural number ever thought of" does not.
>>
>> You run
>> into a form of Barry's paradox.
> 
> You mean Berry's paradox?
> 
> Berry's Paradox, first mentioned in the Principia Mathematica as fifth of seven paradoxes, is credited to G.G. Berry of the Bodleian Library. It uses the least integer not nameable in fewer than nineteen syllables; in fact, in English it denotes 111777.
> 
> The solution of Berry's paradox may be explained most easily in the second version. If all definitions with less than 100 letters already are given, then also the sequence of letters Z = "the least number which cannot be defined by less than 100 letters" does define a number. As an example, let a = 01, b = 02, c = 03 etc. By "example" we have defined the number example = 05240113161205 and also the sequence Z would already define a number. Only by the change of language from numeral to colloquial the apparent paradox occurs.

You equivocated and it doesn't help you with the form you have in what 
you call mathematics.

Martin Shobe

Thread

Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-25 15:22 -0700
  Re: Donald and the convergent sequence bursejan@gmail.com - 2018-05-25 16:12 -0700
    Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-26 08:14 -0700
      Re: Donald and the convergent sequence bursejan@gmail.com - 2018-05-26 09:43 -0700
        Re: Donald and the convergent sequence bursejan@gmail.com - 2018-05-26 09:49 -0700
        Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-27 04:58 -0700
        Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-13 16:51 -0700
  Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zeit Geist <Tucsondrew@me.com> - 2018-05-25 19:09 -0700
  Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2018-05-25 20:11 -0700
    Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-26 08:15 -0700
      Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2018-05-26 08:51 -0700
        Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-27 04:56 -0700
          Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2018-05-27 07:13 -0700
      Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-05-27 05:22 -0700
        Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-27 05:26 -0700
          Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-05-27 14:31 +0200
  Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-26 10:40 -0500
    Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-27 04:51 -0700
      Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-28 07:37 -0500
        Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-28 07:07 -0700
          Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-05-30 23:56 -0700
            Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-31 05:26 -0700
              Re: Donald and the convergent sequence bursejan@gmail.com - 2018-05-31 05:33 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-31 06:04 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-04 05:01 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-04 05:14 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 06:13 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-08 06:44 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-08 06:50 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-08 16:38 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-08 11:13 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-09 02:59 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-09 03:23 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-09 04:47 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-09 09:43 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-09 11:10 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-10 04:28 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-10 04:36 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-10 04:54 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-10 05:05 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-10 06:09 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-10 08:18 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-09 15:26 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-09 09:35 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-09 18:39 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-09 09:48 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-09 19:03 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-09 10:35 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-09 11:34 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2018-06-09 11:56 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-09 12:09 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-10 04:45 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-10 05:09 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-10 06:07 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence wpihughes@gmail.com - 2018-06-10 08:26 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-10 19:08 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-11 06:05 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-10 02:27 +0200
              Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-04 00:23 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-04 04:47 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-04 05:44 -0700
          Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-05-31 00:00 -0700
            Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-05-31 05:31 -0700
          Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-31 20:35 -0500
            Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-01 04:00 -0700
              Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-01 19:11 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-02 07:34 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-04 10:58 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-05 05:35 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-05 16:24 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-06 05:47 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-06 14:44 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-07 06:29 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-07 16:35 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-08 03:34 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-08 07:32 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-08 05:59 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-08 16:27 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-09 09:58 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-10 16:56 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-11 06:15 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-11 15:44 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-11 08:41 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-11 17:52 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-12 04:10 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-12 13:22 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 00:48 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-14 04:10 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 23:18 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2018-06-15 05:41 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 05:51 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2018-06-15 06:05 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 00:04 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-11 20:28 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-12 04:09 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-12 18:30 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-13 02:36 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2018-06-13 08:53 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-14 06:25 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-14 04:55 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-14 16:58 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2018-06-14 05:53 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-14 16:59 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2018-06-14 15:46 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-15 18:53 -0500
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2018-06-15 17:13 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence FredJeffries <fredjeffries@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 08:51 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 22:53 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-08 03:35 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-06-08 12:54 +0200
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence Zelos Malum <zelos.malum@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 22:50 -0700
                Re: Donald and the convergent sequence WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de> - 2018-06-07 06:32 -0700

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