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Groups > sci.logic > #335051 > unrolled thread

At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact

Started byolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
First post2024-06-04 16:53 -0500
Last post2024-06-05 20:39 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 100 — 10 participants

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  At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 16:53 -0500
    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-04 21:48 -0400
      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 20:54 -0500
        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-04 22:22 -0400
          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 21:28 -0500
            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-04 22:45 -0400
              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 21:55 -0500
                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-04 23:15 -0400
                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 22:21 -0500
                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-05 09:54 +0300
                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 07:31 -0400
                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 07:30 -0500
                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 19:32 -0400
                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 20:01 -0500
                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 21:07 -0400
                              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 20:18 -0500
                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 21:27 -0400
                                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 20:31 -0500
                                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 22:25 -0400
                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 21:43 -0500
                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 23:05 -0400
                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 22:11 -0500
                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 23:41 -0400
                                              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 22:44 -0500
                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-05 23:58 -0400
                                                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 23:04 -0500
                                                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 00:06 -0400
                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 23:14 -0500
                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 12:30 +0800
                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 07:11 -0400
                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 08:06 -0500
                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 22:08 -0400
                                                              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 21:56 -0500
                                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 22:04 -0500
                                                                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 23:29 -0400
                                                                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 22:53 -0500
                                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 11:14 -0400
                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 10:22 -0500
                                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 11:32 -0400
                                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 23:29 -0400
                                                                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 08:09 -0500
                                                                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 11:14 -0400
                                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 10:29 -0500
                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 11:46 -0400
                                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 10:56 -0500
                                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 12:25 -0400
                                                                              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 11:46 -0500
                                                                                Re: Last communication with Richard Rich Yard Daemon <news3@immibis.com> - 2024-06-07 18:51 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 13:12 -0400
                                                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 13:11 -0400
                                                                                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 12:14 -0500
                                                                                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 14:22 -0400
                                                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 13:38 -0500
                                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 15:23 -0400
                                                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 13:53 -0500
                                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 15:23 -0400
                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-07 17:57 +0200
                                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 11:13 -0500
                                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 12:27 -0400
                                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 10:52 -0500
                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-07 18:00 +0200
                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 12:28 -0400
                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-07 17:50 +0000
                                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 14:31 -0500
                                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-06-08 03:42 +0800
                                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 15:50 -0400
                                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard (we wish) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 17:11 -0500
                                                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard (we wish) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 18:18 -0400
                                                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 19:32 -0500
                                                                                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 20:47 -0400
                                                                                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 19:52 -0500
                                                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 21:08 -0400
                                                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 20:26 -0500
                                                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 21:42 -0400
                                                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 20:48 -0500
                                                                                              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 22:11 -0400
                                                                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 21:35 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 22:46 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 21:54 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact -- closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 23:11 -0400
                                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 18:31 -0500
                                                                              Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-07 20:35 -0400
                                                                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-07 18:01 +0200
                                                      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 00:57 -0500
                                                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 07:11 -0400
                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 08:08 -0500
                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 22:08 -0400
                                                          Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 08:27 -0500
                                                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 22:08 -0400
                            Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-06 13:50 +0300
                        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-06 13:26 +0300
                Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact ornott <news2@immibis.com> - 2024-06-06 18:48 +0200
                  Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 11:56 -0500
                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact prescott <news2@immibis.com> - 2024-06-06 20:03 +0200
                    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-06 22:08 -0400
    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-05 09:50 +0300
    Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-05 10:02 +0200
      Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 08:54 -0500
        Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-05 20:39 +0200

Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →


#335051 — At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-04 16:53 -0500
SubjectAt least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact
Message-ID<v3o2dj$jm9q$1@dont-email.me>
https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above
link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.

It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
their face.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#335063

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-04 21:48 -0400
Message-ID<v3og6b$328ec$10@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335051
On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
> 
> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above
> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
> 
> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
> their face.
> 
> 

The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated Correctly" to 
allow the simulation to say anything about the behavior of the machine 
being simulated.

You have been told this repeatedly, so your refusal to listen just 
proves that you are an ignorant pathological liar that reckless 
disregards the truth and beleives his own lies.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335064

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-04 20:54 -0500
Message-ID<v3ogh9$pi6u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335063
On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>
>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above
>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>
>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
>> their face.
>>
>>
> 
> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated Correctly" to 
> allow the simulation to say anything about the behavior of the machine 
> being simulated.
> 

*I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

> You have been told this repeatedly, so your refusal to listen just 
> proves that you are an ignorant pathological liar that reckless 
> disregards the truth and beleives his own lies.

If you have reasoning to prove otherwise provide it otherwise
everyone will know that you have no basis for any rebuttal.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335073

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-04 22:22 -0400
Message-ID<v3oi5t$328ec$13@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335064
On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>
>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above
>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>
>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
>>> their face.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated Correctly" 
>> to allow the simulation to say anything about the behavior of the 
>> machine being simulated.
>>
> 
> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.

You are just proving that you don't understand how logic works, 
apparently because logic is just above your ability

> 
>> You have been told this repeatedly, so your refusal to listen just 
>> proves that you are an ignorant pathological liar that reckless 
>> disregards the truth and beleives his own lies.
> 
> If you have reasoning to prove otherwise provide it otherwise
> everyone will know that you have no basis for any rebuttal.
> 

The fact that in Computation Theory, the only concept of simulation that 
shows behavior is by a defintion that requires that the simulation match 
that behavior. it is sort of a Tautology.

A simulation can only correctly show the behavior, if the results of the 
simulation correct show the actual behavior of the thing simulated.

So, since DD(DD) DOES HALT if HH(DD,DD) returns 0, because it claims it 
"correct simulation" indicated it was non-halting, means that BY THE 
DEFINITON OF CORRECT, its simulation can not be "correct".

If you want to claim that something that is objectively wrong can be 
correct, please show it.

Your logic just brings your system into massive contradiction, and thus 
it is worthless.

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#335074

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-04 21:28 -0500
Message-ID<v3oifv$psat$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335073
On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>
>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the 
>>>> above
>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>
>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
>>>> their face.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated Correctly" 
>>> to allow the simulation to say anything about the behavior of the 
>>> machine being simulated.
>>>
>>
>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
> 
> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
> 

*Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
*Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
*Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*

The behavior that a machine description specifies to a UTM
IS THE BEHAVIOR OF THIS FINITE STRING
YOU ARE SIMPLY VERY CONFUSED


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335075

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-04 22:45 -0400
Message-ID<v3ojg2$328eb$1@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335074
On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the 
>>>>> above
>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and 
>>>>> they
>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
>>>>> their face.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>
>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>
> 
> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*

What are you asking for a counter example of?

I said definition are always correct and you can't prove one wrong.

There is no counter-example to that.

If you want a counter example to you claim of correct simulation, DD(DD) 
is the counter example. You claim that you can show a "Correct 
Simulation" of it proves non-halting behavior, when the actual behavior 
of that machine is Halting, so it CAN'T be non-halting.

> 
> The behavior that a machine description specifies to a UTM
> IS THE BEHAVIOR OF THIS FINITE STRING
> YOU ARE SIMPLY VERY CONFUSED
> 
> 

Right, and a UTM simulates the input to EXACTLY repoduce the behavior of 
the machine it describes.

So, HH(DD,DD), to be a Halt Decider must answer to if UTM(DD,DD) WHERE 
THAT DD IS STILL PAIRED TO HH, will halt, which means if DD(DD) will halt.

Since DD(DD) will halt, and thus UTM(DD,DD) will halt, if HH(DD,DD) 
returns 0, that answer can not be correct.

PERIOD.

BY DEFINITION, one you even just agreed to.

Perhaps your problem is you forget the defintion of a UTM, it isn't 
"just a simulator" but it is a machine that EXACTLY REPODUCES THE 
BEHAVIOR of the machine described by its input.

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#335076

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-04 21:55 -0500
Message-ID<v3ok3p$q2fh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335075
On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the 
>>>>>> above
>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>
>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>
>>
>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
> 
> What are you asking for a counter example of?
> 

The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
possibly prove otherwise.

We can "define" that it does halt and that would be the same as
"defining" that all puppies are fifteen story office buildings,
inherently incorrect.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335077

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-04 23:15 -0400
Message-ID<v3ol8s$328ec$14@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335076
On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that 
>>>>>>> the above
>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face 
>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>
>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>
>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>
> 
> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
> possibly prove otherwise.

No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.

> 
> We can "define" that it does halt and that would be the same as
> "defining" that all puppies are fifteen story office buildings,
> inherently incorrect.
>

Nope, since the DEFINITON of what an input represents to a Halt Decider, 
is the behavior of the actual machine.


YOUR CLAIM, which CHANGES that definition, is to call all puppies 
fiftenn story office buildings.

Can you show anyone with a real reputation on this (so not you) that 
defines the meaning of the input to a halt decider your way?

Until you can do so, you are just admitting that you have been LYING all 
these years, which means that YOU are the one heading for that lake of Fire.

Of course, you always have the option to REPENT and denounce your lies. 
Just remember, once you die that option is lost (as are you).

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#335078

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-04 22:21 -0500
Message-ID<v3olkf$q9du$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335077
On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that 
>>>>>>>> the above
>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face 
>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips 
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>
>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>>
>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>
>>
>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>> possibly prove otherwise.
> 
> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
> 

In other words you have always known that I am correct
that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#335081

FromMikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Date2024-06-05 09:54 +0300
Message-ID<v3p234$s4jl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335078
On 2024-06-05 03:21:50 +0000, olcott said:

> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above
>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated Correctly" 
>>>>>>>> to allow the simulation to say anything about the behavior of the 
>>>>>>>> machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
>>>> 
>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>> 
>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>> 
> 
> In other words you have always known that I am correct
> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.

That looks like you don't konw what "DD correctly simulated by HH"
means. If you want anyone to seriously consider your words you shold
not write in a way that people tend to regard as a sign of stupidity.

-- 
Mikko

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#335088

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-05 07:31 -0400
Message-ID<v3piaa$33gmb$1@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335078
On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that 
>>>>>>>>> the above
>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face 
>>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips 
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>> cannot*
>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>> cannot*
>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>> cannot*
>>>>
>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>
>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>
> 
> In other words you have always known that I am correct
> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
> 

You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible because 
you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible, your 
medication has made your brain too fuzzy.

The DEFINITION of DD Halting, is, and only is, does DD(DD) Halt when 
run. And it does, when HH(DD,DD) returns 0, which is what you say your 
HH "correcly" does. It it is an agreed upon fact, as verified, that DD, 
even when "correctly simulated" by HH, will still halt, as it is not the 
simulation of HH that determines the answer to the question, but the 
behavior of the actual program DD that does.

Your HH will, by your own definitions (since you define HH to be a 
decider, so it MUST answer, and thus it MUST halt its simulation) only 
do a partial, even if correct as far as it went, simulation of DD and 
then abort and return 0 to whoever calls it, including DD.

If you want to try to redeam yourself, point out what step I did that 
was wrong.

Just repeating your LYING CLAIM that it is wrong, just puts another nail 
in the coffin of your reputation, which has been dead for years.

Part of your problem is that you just don't understand what the words 
you are using means, because you have refused to study them.

Definitions can NOT be wrong for the field that provided them. Other 
definitions may exist in other areas, but you can't use the "wrong" 
definition in a place that has its own technical meaning for that word.

Trying to do so, just makes you an ignorant liar.

This is the case for you trying to redefine what "Correct Simulation" or 
"Halting" means in computation theory, or what "behavior of the input" 
would mean.

Face it, you have just gotten yourself stuck in your world of lies that 
you dug out of ignorance, and then buried your self with them by your 
stubbornness to accept what is defined.

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#335090

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-05 07:30 -0500
Message-ID<v3plp1$v133$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335088
On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that 
>>>>>>>>>> the above
>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face 
>>>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie 
>>>>>>>>>> drips from
>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>
>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>
>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>
>>
>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>
> 
> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible because 
> you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible, your 
> medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
> 

*It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
*different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
*One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*

That you continue to try to get away changing the subject to the
direct execution of DD(DD) that has provably different behavior as
your rebuttal is the strawman deception and might possibly get you
sent to Hell. I hope not. I hope that either (a) you are confused
or (b) you repent or (c) The bible is wrong about all liars:

Revelations 21:8
...all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with
fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

To the best of my knowledge I am not taking any chances on this. There
are sometimes when I complement someone and after the fact I carefully
study my words and find that I inadvertently exaggerated a little bit.
I never use flattery knowing full well that it is deception.



-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#335119

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-05 19:32 -0400
Message-ID<v3qsi6$354ia$1@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335090
On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact 
>>>>>>>>>>> that the above
>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their 
>>>>>>>>>>> face and they
>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie 
>>>>>>>>>>> drips from
>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>
>>
>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible 
>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible, 
>> your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>
> 
> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*

Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of 
computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)

PERIOD.

Since the DEFINITION of Correctly simulating something is that the 
simulation matchs the behavior of the thing simulated, your claim is 
just a lie, and one that isn't an "honest mistake" since you keep 
repeating it after it has been pointed out.

The problem is that your are trying to define as a "Correct Simulation" 
something that is just a PARTIAL simulation, and that PARTIAL simulation 
does correctly show PART of the behavior of DD, but that isn't enough to 
conclude non-halting.

I will note, that you have been unable to find anyone to quote about 
your concept of simulation being valid (since you surely would have 
posed if you found one) since you haven't done so. This means you SHOULD 
know that you are barking up the wrong tree.

> 
> That you continue to try to get away changing the subject to the
> direct execution of DD(DD) that has provably different behavior as
> your rebuttal is the strawman deception and might possibly get you
> sent to Hell. I hope not. I hope that either (a) you are confused
> or (b) you repent or (c) The bible is wrong about all liars:

But you haven't proven "DIFFERENT" behavior, as your PARTIAL simulation 
shows what it does show, that DD will call HH, and it will simulate for 
awhile.

The fact that HH can't simulate its input to the end is NOT a proof that 
it doesn't end.

The problem is that it is INVALID LOGIC (and just a bald face lie) to 
talk about the behavior of any other HH simulating a DIFFERENT DD as 
having anything to do the behavior of this DD, or that your HHs are some 
how simulation just one "template". (since Templates don't HAVE this 
sort of behavior to decide on, or even simulate).

All you have done is proven that the criteria you want to try to use, 
just doesn't work and doesn't actually provide a valid basis for HH to 
decide.

> 
> Revelations 21:8
> ...all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with
> fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Which seems to be YOUR destination. I have no concerns, as my statements 
are rooted in truth.

> 
> To the best of my knowledge I am not taking any chances on this. There
> are sometimes when I complement someone and after the fact I carefully
> study my words and find that I inadvertently exaggerated a little bit.
> I never use flattery knowing full well that it is deception.
>
Well, it seems your only hope is that God judges you as a mentally 
incompetent person, since the "facts" you try to quote are just wrong.

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#335127

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-05 20:01 -0500
Message-ID<v3r1pl$16gjs$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335119
On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the above
>>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by 
>>>>>>>>>>>> HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their 
>>>>>>>>>>>> face and they
>>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie 
>>>>>>>>>>>> drips from
>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible 
>>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible, 
>>> your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>>
>>
>> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
>> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
>> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*
> 
> Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of 
> computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)
> 
> PERIOD.

*This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH*
https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

*That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*




-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#335128

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-05 21:07 -0400
Message-ID<v3r24v$354i9$4@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335127
On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> face and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> drips from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you 
>>>>>>>>> cannot*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible 
>>>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible, 
>>>> your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
>>> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
>>> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*
>>
>> Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of 
>> computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)
>>
>> PERIOD.
> 
> *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH*
> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
> 
> *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*
> 

Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a 
machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and that 
the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior of a 
different machine then simulated.

It just proves that you are incapable of looking at REALITY.

Yes, HH creates a correct PARTIAL simulation of DD that shows that this 
DD does not reach a halting state until after the point that HH stops 
its simulation.

The simulation of all the other machines mean NOTHING about the 
simulation of this machine.

You are just showing that you don't understand such fundamental facts 
like a machine will do exact what that machine has been programmed to 
do, and nothing else (even if that isn't what you wanted it to do).

You are just proving you are a stupid, ignorant, pathological liar that 
has a reckless disregard for the truth, and is unable to learn from your 
mistakes, because you will not look at the actual facts.

You are worse then the Election Deniers.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335130

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-05 20:18 -0500
Message-ID<v3r2pb$16lke$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335128
On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> face and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drips from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>>>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>>>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible 
>>>>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or 
>>>>> possible, your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
>>>> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
>>>> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*
>>>
>>> Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of 
>>> computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)
>>>
>>> PERIOD.
>>
>> *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH*
>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>
>> *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*
>>
> 
> Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a 
> machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and that 
> the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior of a 
> different machine then simulated.

*I will dumb it down for you some more*
Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

_DD()
[00001db2] 55         push ebp
[00001db3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00001db5] 51         push ecx
[00001db6] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00001db9] 50         push eax        ; push DD
[00001dba] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00001dbd] 51         push ecx        ; push DD
[00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382   ; call HH

*Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
*He is not a liar*

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335131

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-05 21:27 -0400
Message-ID<v3r39a$354ia$5@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335130
On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> face and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drips from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>>>>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>>>>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible 
>>>>>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or 
>>>>>> possible, your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
>>>>> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
>>>>> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*
>>>>
>>>> Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of 
>>>> computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)
>>>>
>>>> PERIOD.
>>>
>>> *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH*
>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>
>>> *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*
>>>
>>
>> Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a 
>> machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and 
>> that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior 
>> of a different machine then simulated.
> 
> *I will dumb it down for you some more*
> Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]


I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.

Given that HH(DD,DD) halts and returns 0 (or it isn't a decider) we have 
that:

DD(DD) Halts.

The ACTUAL Correct Simulation of DD(DD) will Halt.

The Simulation that HH does, might be correct as far as it goes, but 
doing only a fixed finite number of steps of that particular DD, it 
doesn't show that it can't halt in some larger number of steps (like 
both of the statements above do show).

So, you are stuck trying to solve a problem with a tool that can't give 
you the answer, and then blaming the problem for you using the wrong tool.

Halting has a very precise definition, and any answer to the question 
about halting must answer that precise definition.

Any claim that an answer that differs from that definition is just a LIE.

You try to push your lie by trying to deceptively change the definition 
of what a "Correct Simulation" is, and that just show that you are 
nothing but a pathological liar with a reckless disregard for the truth, 
as anyone with a shred of morals would see the error and correct themselves.

Since it seems that your native toungue is to lie, you just don't 
understand that, so you are doomed to be eternally wrong.

My guess is you are going to be sentenced to spending an eternity going 
around and around in your proof, always thinking you are getting closer, 
but having that hope dashed again and again and again for eternity.

> 
> _DD()
> [00001db2] 55         push ebp
> [00001db3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> [00001db5] 51         push ecx
> [00001db6] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001db9] 50         push eax        ; push DD
> [00001dba] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001dbd] 51         push ecx        ; push DD
> [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382   ; call HH
> 
> *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
> *He is not a liar*
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335132

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-05 20:31 -0500
Message-ID<v3r3hd$1ahl1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335131
On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pie drips from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Simulated Correctly" to allow the simulation to say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything about the behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>>>>>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>>>>>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible 
>>>>>>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or 
>>>>>>> possible, your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
>>>>>> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
>>>>>> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*
>>>>>
>>>>> Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of 
>>>>> computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)
>>>>>
>>>>> PERIOD.
>>>>
>>>> *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by 
>>>> HH*
>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>
>>>> *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a 
>>> machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and 
>>> that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior 
>>> of a different machine then simulated.
>>
>> *I will dumb it down for you some more*
>> Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]
> 
> 
> I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.
> 

THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
THAT I AM INCORRECT

*I will dumb it down for you some more*
Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

_DD()
[00001db2] 55         push ebp
[00001db3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00001db5] 51         push ecx
[00001db6] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00001db9] 50         push eax        ; push DD
[00001dba] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00001dbd] 51         push ecx        ; push DD
[00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382   ; call HH

*Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
*He is not a liar*

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335134

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-05 22:25 -0400
Message-ID<v3r6mt$354i9$6@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#335132
On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pie drips from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Simulated Correctly" to allow the simulation to say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything about the behavior of the machine being simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
>>>>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>>>>>>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>>>>>>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible 
>>>>>>>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or 
>>>>>>>> possible, your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
>>>>>>> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
>>>>>>> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition 
>>>>>> of computation theory (or the general concept of a correct 
>>>>>> simulation)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PERIOD.
>>>>>
>>>>> *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated 
>>>>> by HH*
>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a 
>>>> machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and 
>>>> that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior 
>>>> of a different machine then simulated.
>>>
>>> *I will dumb it down for you some more*
>>> Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]
>>
>>
>> I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.
>>
> 
> THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
> UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
> THAT I AM INCORRECT

Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't care about 
that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line from talking about 
the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the OBJECTIVE behavior of the 
machine the input represents to a Halt Decider, will you get me caring, 
and slapping you down hard with a factual rebuttal.

> 
> *I will dumb it down for you some more*
> Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to confirm that 
it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn because it is MEANINGLESS.

If you want to talk about HH's PARTIAL (but correct as far as it goes) 
simulation not reaching to DD's final state, go ahead, I won't argue 
about that, except to point out that this does NOT prove that the input 
represents non-halting behavior to the halt decider.

It is the difference between not being able to prove halting behavior, 
and being able to prove non-halting behavior, HH just doesn't have the 
data to prove the behavior.

Partial simulations give a 3 state result.
1) If they reach a final state, they prove Halting.
2) If they create enough data that you can form a valid induction to 
prove that this exact input, if given to a UTM, would never halt, we can 
prove non-halting. (Note, that is the input that FULLY describes the 
FULL machine, and thus for DD includes all the code for the HH that was 
deciding it), or
3) IF they can't do either, as is the case for HH, it just just say that 
the input didn't-yet-halt, that it came to a non-decision. Of course, 
Deciders can't leave it that way, which is why we can't actually have 
Halt Deciders that are correct for all inputs.


Now, if you start to use terminology that implies rather that HH's 
partial simulation not reaching a final state, but that DD is actually 
non-halting, I will point out your LIES, as that is what you need to do 
to say that, as you just don't have the proof, and it HAS been pointed 
out to you.

> 
> _DD()
> [00001db2] 55         push ebp
> [00001db3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> [00001db5] 51         push ecx
> [00001db6] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001db9] 50         push eax        ; push DD
> [00001dba] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001dbd] 51         push ecx        ; push DD
> [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382   ; call HH
> 
> *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
> *He is not a liar*
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#335136

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-05 21:43 -0500
Message-ID<v3r7p2$1b63v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#335134
On 6/5/2024 9:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by HH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pie drips from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Simulated Correctly" to allow the simulation to say 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything about the behavior of the machine being 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What are you asking for a counter example of?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The machine description of DD specifies that it does not 
>>>>>>>>>>>> halt to
>>>>>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In other words you have always known that I am correct
>>>>>>>>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
>>>>>>>>>> and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, 
>>>>>>>>> possible because you just don't know what you are talking 
>>>>>>>>> about, or possible, your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
>>>>>>>> *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
>>>>>>>> *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition 
>>>>>>> of computation theory (or the general concept of a correct 
>>>>>>> simulation)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PERIOD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated 
>>>>>> by HH*
>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of 
>>>>> a machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, 
>>>>> and that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the 
>>>>> behavior of a different machine then simulated.
>>>>
>>>> *I will dumb it down for you some more*
>>>> Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
>>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]
>>>
>>>
>>> I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.
>>>
>>
>> THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
>> UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
>> THAT I AM INCORRECT
> 
> Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't care about 
> that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line from talking about 
> the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the OBJECTIVE behavior of the 
> machine the input represents to a Halt Decider, will you get me caring, 
> and slapping you down hard with a factual rebuttal.
> 
>>
>> *I will dumb it down for you some more*
>> Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]
> 
> But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to confirm that 
> it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn because it is MEANINGLESS.
> 

THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
THAT I AM INCORRECT

*I will dumb it down for you some more*
Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

_DD()
[00001db2] 55 push ebp
[00001db3] 8bec mov ebp,esp
[00001db5] 51 push ecx
[00001db6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00001db9] 50 push eax ; push DD
[00001dba] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00001dbd] 51 push ecx ; push DD
[00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH

*Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
*He is not a liar*

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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