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Groups > sci.logic > #334468 > unrolled thread
| Started by | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-05-23 12:04 -0500 |
| Last post | 2024-05-26 08:38 -0500 |
| Articles | 6 on this page of 146 — 5 participants |
Back to article view | Back to sci.logic
Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 12:04 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 21:44 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 21:22 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 22:41 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 22:06 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 23:47 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 22:59 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:18 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:57 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:27 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-24 12:46 +0200
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:14 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:52 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:35 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:18 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:06 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:25 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:03 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:37 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:18 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-24 09:37 +0200
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:10 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:25 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:01 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:39 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 17:20 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 19:20 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 23:28 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 08:52 -0400
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 12:56 -0500
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 14:16 -0400
D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 13:27 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 15:23 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 14:55 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 16:16 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 15:20 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:04 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:13 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:18 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:29 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:45 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:03 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:36 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:40 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:49 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:52 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:57 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:13 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:36 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:40 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:49 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:53 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:59 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 18:11 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 19:14 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 18:23 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 19:40 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 19:12 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 21:23 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 19:45 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 21:23 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 20:47 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:06 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:09 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:18 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:16 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:19 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:03 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:25 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:40 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 07:43 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 09:13 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 12:31 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:01 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 13:16 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:26 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 13:48 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:54 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 14:01 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:11 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 14:23 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 14:14 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 16:20 -0400
A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 17:47 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 19:07 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 18:45 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 20:15 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 19:21 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 20:44 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 20:03 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 21:19 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:06 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 22:30 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:53 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:15 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:43 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:05 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 22:17 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:30 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 22:47 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 09:27 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 09:25 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 10:48 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 10:06 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 11:25 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 10:46 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 11:58 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 11:22 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 12:33 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 14:45 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 17:21 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 17:32 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 18:44 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 19:08 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 20:17 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 19:26 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 20:48 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:04 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 21:24 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:39 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 21:54 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:01 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 22:23 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:41 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 22:52 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:59 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 07:34 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 10:20 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 09:37 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 11:20 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-01 18:52 +0000
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 14:26 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 15:45 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 22:24 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 07:34 -0400
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 10:37 -0500
Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 22:04 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-25 21:09 +0000
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-26 12:47 +0200
Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 08:38 -0500
Page 8 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8]
| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-28 07:34 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ |
| Message-ID | <v34fft$2bb65$1@i2pn2.org> |
| In reply to | #334652 |
On 5/27/24 11:24 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/27/2024 7:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/27/24 8:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/27/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 5/27/24 6:32 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/27/2024 4:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/27/24 3:45 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/27/2024 11:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/27/24 12:22 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/2024 10:58 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/24 11:46 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/2024 10:25 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/24 11:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>>>>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>>>>>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr p)
>>>>>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>>>>>> 03 int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>>>>>>>>>>> 04 if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>> 06 return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>>> 09 int main()
>>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>>> 11 H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>> 12 return 0;
>>>>>>>>>>> 13 }
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The above template refers to an infinite set of H/D pairs
>>>>>>>>>>> where D is
>>>>>>>>>>> correctly simulated by either pure simulator H or pure
>>>>>>>>>>> function H. This
>>>>>>>>>>> was done because many reviewers used the shell game ploy to
>>>>>>>>>>> endlessly
>>>>>>>>>>> switch which H/D pair was being referred to.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Correct Simulation Defined*
>>>>>>>>>>> This is provided because many reviewers had a different
>>>>>>>>>>> notion of
>>>>>>>>>>> correct simulation that diverges from this notion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly emulates 1
>>>>>>>>>>> to N of the
>>>>>>>>>>> x86 instructions of D in the order specified by the x86
>>>>>>>>>>> instructions
>>>>>>>>>>> of D. This may include M recursive emulations of H
>>>>>>>>>>> emulating itself
>>>>>>>>>>> emulating D.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And how do you apply that to a TEMPLATE that doesn't define
>>>>>>>>>> what a call H means (as it could be any of the infinite set of
>>>>>>>>>> Hs that you can instantiate the template on)?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Somehow we got off track of the subject of this thread*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I note that YOU keep on switching between your C program and
>>>>>>>> Turing Machines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Note, per the implications that you implicitly agreed to (by not
>>>>>>>> even trying to refute) the two systems are NOT equivalents of
>>>>>>>> each other.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (1) I think you are wrong. I have not seen any of your
>>>>>>> reasoning that was not anchored in false assumptions.
>>>>>>> Your make fake rebuttal is to change the subject.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (2) It does not matter my proof is anchored in the Linz
>>>>>>> proof and the H/D pairs are only used to have a 100% concrete
>>>>>>> basis to perfectly anchor things such as the correct meaning
>>>>>>> of D correctly simulated by H so that people cannot get away
>>>>>>> with claiming that an incorrect simulation is correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> int main() { D(D); } IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D CORRECTLY SIMULATED
>>>>>>> BY H.
>>>>>>> One cannot simply ignore the pathological relationship between H
>>>>>>> and D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ĥ copies its own Turing machine description: ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>> then invokes embedded_H that simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ with ⟨Ĥ⟩ as input.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the purposes of the above analysis we hypothesize that
>>>>>>>>> embedded_H is either a UTM or a UTM that has been adapted
>>>>>>>>> to stop simulating after a finite number of steps of simulation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And what you do mean by that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you hypothesize that the original H was just a pure UTM,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The original proof does not consider the notion of a simulating
>>>>>>> halt decider so I have to begin the proof at an earlier stage
>>>>>>> than any definition of H.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The biggest problem is that the input to the Turing machine
>>>>>> decider H is the description of a Turing Machine H^, which is a
>>>>>> SPECIFIC machine,
>>>>>
>>>>> When you say "specific machine" you don't mean anything like a
>>>>> 100% completely specified sequence of state transitions encoded
>>>>> as a single unique finite string.
>>>>
>>>> Mostly.
>>>>
>>>> There doesn't need to be a unique finite string, but it is a 100%
>>>> completely specified state transition/tape operation table.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>
>>> In other words Linz did not prove that there are no set
>>> of state transitions specified by ⊢* that derives the
>>> correct halt status of ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩.
>>>
>>> He only said there there is one specific machine that
>>> gets the wrong answer.
>>>
>>
>> He STARTS with a proof that one specific (but arbitrary) machine gets
>> the wrong answer.
>>
>
> *Not exactly, you are misreading this*
>
> The domain of this problem is to be taken as the set of all Turing
> machines and all w; that is, we are looking for a single Turing machine
> that, given the description of an arbitrary M and w, will predict
> whether or not the computation of M applied to w will halt
*** a single Turing Machine ***
not singular
>
> ...
>
> Proof: We assume the contrary, namely that there exists an algorithm,
> and consequently some Turing machine H, that solves the halting problem
> https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf
*** some Turing Machine ***
Note singular
>
> Ordinary existential quantification looks for at least one
> element not exactly one element:
But you can look for at least one by looking for one without an
assumption that it is unique.
>
> Does at least one Turing machine exist of the infinite set
> of all Turing machines ...
Right, so if we can prove that none of them are correct, you have shown
that some is contradicted.
>
> So like I have always said, the second ⊢* specifies
> an infinite set of Turing machines.
>
As a SPECIFICATION of the domain of selection, yes.
As a SPECIFICATION of what THIS ONE machine does, no.
You just don't understand categorical logic.
> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>
Which categorically defines the limits of the behavior of the specific
H, as well as the set that H is taken from.
In the specific machine, ⊢* gets replaced with the precise set of
transitions that particular machine does.
In the Set that H was selected from, its just specifies limits of
behavior in that set.
But, as the proof moves on, he talks about assuming A machine, which is
THE H.
>
>> Then he shows that the same proof can be applied to ANY such machine
>> (becaue the proof didn't depend on any specific details of the
>> machine, just the general properties of that machine)
>>
>> I guess you don't understand how to do categorical proofs.
>>
>
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-28 10:37 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ |
| Message-ID | <v34tnf$lfph$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #334656 |
On 5/28/2024 6:34 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 5/27/24 11:24 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 5/27/2024 7:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> >>> He STARTS with a proof that one specific (but arbitrary) machine gets >>> the wrong answer. >>> >> >> *Not exactly, you are misreading this* >> >> The domain of this problem is to be taken as the set of all Turing >> machines and all w; that is, we are looking for a single Turing machine >> that, given the description of an arbitrary M and w, will predict >> whether or not the computation of M applied to w will halt > > *** a single Turing Machine *** > > not singular > >> >> ... >> >> Proof: We assume the contrary, namely that there exists an algorithm, >> and consequently some Turing machine H, that solves the halting problem >> https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf > > *** some Turing Machine *** > > Note singular > >> >> Ordinary existential quantification looks for at least one >> element not exactly one element: > > But you can look for at least one by looking for one without an > assumption that it is unique. > The Peter Linz words refer to ordinary existential quantification anchored in the infinite set of Turing machines. ∃H ∈ Turing_Machines ∀x ∈ Turing_Machines_Descriptions ∀y ∈ Finite_Strings such that H(x,y) = Halts(x,x) >> >> Does at least one Turing machine exist of the infinite set >> of all Turing machines ... > > Right, so if we can prove that none of them are correct, you have shown > that some is contradicted. > >> >> So like I have always said, the second ⊢* specifies >> an infinite set of Turing machines. >> > > As a SPECIFICATION of the domain of selection, yes. > > As a SPECIFICATION of what THIS ONE machine does, no. > My formalization already handles this. *Here is the same thing applied to H/D pairs* ∃H ∈ C_Functions ∀D ∈ x86_Machine_Code_of_C_Functions such that H(D,D) = Halts(D,D) -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-28 22:04 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ |
| Message-ID | <v362f0$2d367$4@i2pn2.org> |
| In reply to | #334662 |
On 5/28/24 11:37 AM, olcott wrote: > On 5/28/2024 6:34 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 5/27/24 11:24 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 5/27/2024 7:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> >>>> He STARTS with a proof that one specific (but arbitrary) machine >>>> gets the wrong answer. >>>> >>> >>> *Not exactly, you are misreading this* >>> >>> The domain of this problem is to be taken as the set of all Turing >>> machines and all w; that is, we are looking for a single Turing machine >>> that, given the description of an arbitrary M and w, will predict >>> whether or not the computation of M applied to w will halt >> >> *** a single Turing Machine *** >> >> not singular >> >>> >>> ... >>> >>> Proof: We assume the contrary, namely that there exists an algorithm, >>> and consequently some Turing machine H, that solves the halting problem >>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf >> >> *** some Turing Machine *** >> >> Note singular >> >>> >>> Ordinary existential quantification looks for at least one >>> element not exactly one element: >> >> But you can look for at least one by looking for one without an >> assumption that it is unique. >> > > The Peter Linz words refer to ordinary existential quantification > anchored in the infinite set of Turing machines. > > ∃H ∈ Turing_Machines > ∀x ∈ Turing_Machines_Descriptions > ∀y ∈ Finite_Strings > such that H(x,y) = Halts(x,x) > >>> >>> Does at least one Turing machine exist of the infinite set >>> of all Turing machines ... >> >> Right, so if we can prove that none of them are correct, you have >> shown that some is contradicted. >> >>> >>> So like I have always said, the second ⊢* specifies >>> an infinite set of Turing machines. >>> >> >> As a SPECIFICATION of the domain of selection, yes. >> >> As a SPECIFICATION of what THIS ONE machine does, no. >> > > My formalization already handles this. > > *Here is the same thing applied to H/D pairs* > ∃H ∈ C_Functions > ∀D ∈ x86_Machine_Code_of_C_Functions > such that H(D,D) = Halts(D,D) > > Do you REALLY mean to relax your specification to H just needing to be a "C Function"? Note, that might allow my cheat to get H to answer THIS PARTICULAR problem, but it still won't let H handle ALL machines. I don't think the limitation of asking D only about the input D fixes all the other non-computable problems.
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| From | Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-25 21:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 |
| Message-ID | <v2tk27$dut$1@news.muc.de> |
| In reply to | #334525 |
[ Followup-To: set ]
In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
[ .... ]
> Not at all. I simply utterly reject the dishonest dodge
> of the strawman deception change-the-subject rebuttal.
> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function in C
> 00 int H(ptr p, ptr i);
> 01 int D(ptr p)
> 02 {
> 03 int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
> 04 if (Halt_Status)
> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
> 06 return Halt_Status;
> 07 }
> 08
> 09 int main()
> 10 {
> 11 H(D,D);
> 12 return 0;
> 13 }
> The above template refers to an infinite set of H/D pairs where D is
> correctly simulated by pure function H. This was done because many
> reviewers used the shell game ploy to endlessly switch which H/D pair
> was being referred to.
> *Correct Simulation Defined*
> This is provided because many reviewers had a different notion of
> correct simulation that diverges from this notion.
> A simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly emulates at least one
> of the x86 instructions of D in the order specified by the x86
> instructions of D.
Having simulated at least one x86 instruction, what does a correct
simulator then do? This isn't made clear. I'm assuming it must return
an integer, as its C specification says.
> This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of H in the
> order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus calling H(D,D) in
> recursive simulation.
> *Execution Trace*
> Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D); H(D,D) simulates lines 01, 02, and 03 of
> D. This invokes H(D,D) again to repeat the process in endless recursive
> simulation.
Not if the simulation is "correct"; suppose the simulation emulates just
one instruction of D. Supposing it then returns 0 (somewhat extending
your definition of a "correct simulator"). The execution trace will then
be somewhat different from what you've outlined above.
> --
> Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
> hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
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| From | "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-26 12:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v2v40u$3citg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #334516 |
Op 25.mei.2024 om 19:56 schreef olcott:
> On 5/25/2024 7:52 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/25/24 12:28 AM, olcott wrote:
>
>
>
>>>> That you H, by just needing to be a "Pure Funtion" is not
>>>> necessarily the computatinal eqivalent of a Turing Machine.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Totally moot for the subject line.
>>
>> Nope, ESSENTINTIAL. I am not asking you to change your definition,
>> just accept its consequences.
>>
>
> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function in C
> 00 int H(ptr p, ptr i);
> 01 int D(ptr p)
> 02 {
> 03 int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
> 04 if (Halt_Status)
> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
> 06 return Halt_Status;
> 07 }
> 08
> 09 int main()
> 10 {
> 11 H(D,D);
> 12 return 0;
> 13 }
>
> The above template refers to an infinite set of H/D pairs where D is
> correctly simulated by pure function H. This was done because many
> reviewers used the shell game ploy to endlessly switch which H/D pair
> was being referred to.
>
> *Correct Simulation Defined*
> This is provided because many reviewers had a different notion of
> correct simulation that diverges from this notion.
>
> A simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly emulates at least one
> of the x86 instructions of D in the order specified by the x86
> instructions of D.
>
> This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of H in the
> order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus calling H(D,D) in
> recursive simulation.
>
> *Execution Trace*
> Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D); H(D,D) simulates lines 01, 02, and 03 of
> D. This invokes H(D,D) again to repeat the process in endless recursive
> simulation.
>
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>
The claim is that the simulation of D does not halt, because it call to
H does not halt. The simulation does not even reach line 04, so the
simulation does not even see that D contradicts H. The claim, therefore
does not change if lines 04 and 05 are removed. What remains is that D
is a parameter duplicator, so that H can simulate itself. The result is
that each H in the infinite set of H finds that H is not halting. A
clear indication that a simulating decider is not a good idea.
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-26 08:38 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <v2ve0q$3dtct$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #334573 |
On 5/26/2024 5:47 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 25.mei.2024 om 19:56 schreef olcott:
>> On 5/25/2024 7:52 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 5/25/24 12:28 AM, olcott wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> That you H, by just needing to be a "Pure Funtion" is not
>>>>> necessarily the computatinal eqivalent of a Turing Machine.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Totally moot for the subject line.
>>>
>>> Nope, ESSENTINTIAL. I am not asking you to change your definition,
>>> just accept its consequences.
>>>
>>
>> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>> 00 int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>> 01 int D(ptr p)
>> 02 {
>> 03 int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>> 04 if (Halt_Status)
>> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
>> 06 return Halt_Status;
>> 07 }
>> 08
>> 09 int main()
>> 10 {
>> 11 H(D,D);
>> 12 return 0;
>> 13 }
>>
>> The above template refers to an infinite set of H/D pairs where D is
>> correctly simulated by pure function H. This was done because many
>> reviewers used the shell game ploy to endlessly switch which H/D pair
>> was being referred to.
>>
>> *Correct Simulation Defined*
>> This is provided because many reviewers had a different notion of
>> correct simulation that diverges from this notion.
>>
>> A simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly emulates at least one
>> of the x86 instructions of D in the order specified by the x86
>> instructions of D.
>>
>> This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of H in the
>> order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus calling H(D,D) in
>> recursive simulation.
>>
>> *Execution Trace*
>> Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D); H(D,D) simulates lines 01, 02, and 03 of
>> D. This invokes H(D,D) again to repeat the process in endless recursive
>> simulation.
>>
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>>
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>> *This is only talking about the H/D c function pairs*
>>
>
> The claim is that the simulation of D does not halt, because it call to
> H does not halt. The simulation does not even reach line 04, so the
> simulation does not even see that D contradicts H. The claim, therefore
> does not change if lines 04 and 05 are removed. What remains is that D
> is a parameter duplicator, so that H can simulate itself. The result is
> that each H in the infinite set of H finds that H is not halting. A
> clear indication that a simulating decider is not a good idea.
Your transformation would have been acceptable if you retained the
fact that H is a pure function that always halts and returns some value.
In retrospect I should not have assumed that people here knew what a
pure function is.
In computer programming, a pure function is a function that has the
following properties:
(1) the function return values are identical for identical arguments
(no variation with local static variables, non-local variables, mutable
reference arguments or input streams), and
(2) the function has no side effects (no mutation of local static
variables, non-local variables, mutable reference arguments or
input/output streams). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_function
Because we can see that D correctly simulated by pure function
H cannot possibly reach its final state at line 06 and halt even
when an infinite number of steps are simulated we can know that
D specifies non-halting behavior.
That H is a pure function means that H eventually halts and returns
some value. We can say H returns the meaningless value of 56.
*Thanks for your review*
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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