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[OT] I got a JOB!!!

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  [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-16 13:49 -0500
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-16 11:55 -0700
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-16 15:13 -0500
        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-16 17:18 -0500
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-16 19:04 +0000
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-16 12:14 -0700
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-16 14:41 -0500
        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-16 14:01 -0700
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-16 14:42 -0700
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-16 17:09 -0500
            Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-16 16:42 -0700
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Clifford Heath <clifford.heath@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 09:00 +1000
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 13:40 -0700
    [OT] I got a JOB!!! bulegoge@columbus.rr.com - 2017-05-16 12:27 -0700
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! eric.jacobsen@ieee.org - 2017-05-16 20:17 +0000
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-16 15:24 -0500
        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 22:05 +0100
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-16 17:11 -0500
            Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 23:51 +0100
              Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-16 18:32 -0500
                Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Clifford Heath <clifford.heath@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 09:41 +1000
                  Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 09:35 +0100
                    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-17 19:03 +1000
                      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 10:31 +0100
                        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-17 23:07 +1000
                Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 09:41 +0100
                  Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 10:10 +0100
                    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 10:34 +0100
                      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 15:59 +0100
                        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 18:04 +0100
                Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 18:02 +0100
              Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-16 17:56 -0700
                Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 09:42 +0100
                  Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-05-17 16:57 +0800
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-05-16 15:04 -0700
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-16 15:30 -0700
        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-05-18 16:00 -0700
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-18 16:18 -0700
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-18 19:14 -0500
            Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-05-18 21:40 -0700
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-05-16 20:02 -0400
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-16 20:40 -0400
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Randy Yates <randyy@garnerundergroundinc.com> - 2017-05-17 09:12 -0400
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-17 10:02 -0500
        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 18:11 +0100
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-17 12:21 -0500
            Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 18:36 +0100
              Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-17 12:43 -0500
                Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 18:55 +0100
                  Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 18:57 +0100
                  Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-17 13:28 -0500
                    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 20:08 +0100
    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> - 2017-05-17 21:30 -0700
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-18 00:03 -0500
      Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-18 08:18 +0100
        Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> - 2017-05-18 22:56 -0700
          Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Vassilis Spiliopoulos <vassilis@vask1lux.de> - 2017-05-19 14:31 +0300
            Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-19 10:39 -0500
              Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Vassilis Spiliopoulos <vassilis@vask1lux.de> - 2017-05-19 23:02 +0300
                Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-19 13:12 -0700
                  Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-05-19 15:00 -0700
                    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-19 16:05 -0700
                Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> - 2017-05-21 01:46 -0700
                  Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! Vassilis Spiliopoulos <vassilis@vask1lux.de> - 2017-05-21 17:31 +0300
                    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-05-21 13:31 -0500
                    Re: [OT] I got a JOB!!! krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-21 16:47 -0400

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#460550 — [OT] I got a JOB!!!

Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...

Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day 
job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any 
circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by 
hobby work or on the side.

In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current 
customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the 
educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.

Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD 
proselytizing.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I'm looking for work -- see my website!

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#460552

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:49:37 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:
> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
> 
> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day 
> job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any 
> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by 
> hobby work or on the side.
> 
> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current 
> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the 
> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
> 
> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD 
> proselytizing.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Tim Wescott
> Wescott Design Services
> http://www.wescottdesign.com
> 
> I'm looking for work -- see my website!

Excellent!  Congrats... 
(maybe take off that tag line that says you are looking for work.:^) 

George H. 

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#460573

On Tue, 16 May 2017 11:55:50 -0700, George Herold wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:49:37 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:
>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>> 
>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
>> job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
>> hobby work or on the side.
>> 
>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>> 
>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>> proselytizing.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
>> 
>> I'm looking for work -- see my website!
> 
> Excellent!  Congrats...
> (maybe take off that tag line that says you are looking for work.:^)
> 
> George H.

I need to, yes.  It was never on in this computer.

-- 
www.wescottdesign.com

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#460591

On Tue, 16 May 2017 15:13:38 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

> On Tue, 16 May 2017 11:55:50 -0700, George Herold wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:49:37 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:
>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>>> 
>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
>>> job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
>>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
>>> hobby work or on the side.
>>> 
>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>>> 
>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>>> proselytizing.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
>>> 
>>> I'm looking for work -- see my website!
>> 
>> Excellent!  Congrats...
>> (maybe take off that tag line that says you are looking for work.:^)
>> 
>> George H.
> 
> I need to, yes.  It was never on in this computer.

And now it's not on this one, either.  And PAN can stop complaining about 
my 4-line tag.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

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#460555

Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:

> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
 
> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day 
> job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any 
> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by 
> hobby work or on the side.
 
> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current 
> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the 
> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
 
> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD 
> proselytizing.
 

Seek and yee shall find. Basic law of the universe.

Good luck! But keep your options open.

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#460559

On 5/16/2017 11:49 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>
> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
> job.

Congratulations! (and good luck making the adjustment; the idea of having
to BE somewhere early in the morning is anathema to me!).

> Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any

The folks who make displays?  (or, a different "Planar")

> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
> hobby work or on the side.
>
> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>
> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
> proselytizing.

It will be interesting to hear your observations of how things
(i.e., design) differ when seeing the corporate world *fresh*.
(even if you don't publicly share them, I suspect you will
"notice" them, at some level)

I think most of us only see it *once*, "fresh" -- and, at that
time, have little other experience with which to contrast it.

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#460569

On Tue, 16 May 2017 12:14:42 -0700, Don Y wrote:

> On 5/16/2017 11:49 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>>
>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
>> job.
> 
> Congratulations! (and good luck making the adjustment; the idea of
> having to BE somewhere early in the morning is anathema to me!).
> 
>> Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
> 
> The folks who make displays?  (or, a different "Planar")

Them guys.  Cool stuff.  Not a spinning motor or a low-level signal in 
sight, but lots of big pretty video displays.

>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
>> hobby work or on the side.
>>
>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>>
>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>> proselytizing.
> 
> It will be interesting to hear your observations of how things (i.e.,
> design) differ when seeing the corporate world *fresh*.
> (even if you don't publicly share them, I suspect you will "notice"
> them, at some level)
> 
> I think most of us only see it *once*, "fresh" -- and, at that time,
> have little other experience with which to contrast it.

I suspect I'll be distracted by getting into the 9-5 routine for the long 
term -- but yes, it'll be interested.

Planar seems like a very happy company, and they've made a point to work 
with me on the whole customer transition thing (basically if I don't mess 
up with them, they're letting me support my existing projects).  So I'm 
looking forward to it.

I'm replacing a coworker of mine from over 15 years ago (I heard of the 
position opening up because I was invited to her retirement party), and 
one of my other coworkers works there, so in a sense it's family already.

-- 
www.wescottdesign.com

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#460581

On 5/16/2017 12:41 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>> It will be interesting to hear your observations of how things (i.e.,
>> design) differ when seeing the corporate world *fresh*.
>> (even if you don't publicly share them, I suspect you will "notice"
>> them, at some level)
>>
>> I think most of us only see it *once*, "fresh" -- and, at that time,
>> have little other experience with which to contrast it.
>
> I suspect I'll be distracted by getting into the 9-5 routine for the long
> term -- but yes, it'll be interested.

In hindsight, it was "educational" when I look back on transitioning
*out* of the 9-5 routine.  Just the idea that *I* could control my
schedule, what I worked on, the order that I tackled aspects of the
project, etc.  No need to justify an equipment purchase or worry
about exceeding that budget.  And, no time wasted in unproductive
meetings!

Of course, it was ALSO enlightening to discover there was noone
stocking the "stationery cabinet".  And, no one ordering the
parts for the prototypes -- or, chasing down shipping errors.
And, any mistakes were *all* accountable to *me*!  :-/

> Planar seems like a very happy company, and they've made a point to work
> with me on the whole customer transition thing (basically if I don't mess
> up with them, they're letting me support my existing projects).  So I'm
> looking forward to it.

Cool!  As a 9-5, I often had employment agreements that wanted to
poke fingers in what I did outside of work.  In one case, a prospective
employer grumbled that he "thought HE would satisfy my need to engage in
intellectual pursuits -- what MORE would you want?" (this being the
red flag that had me walk away from their offer)

This persisted into contract work -- where clients would want to "own"
everything I did for them ("Sure!  But, that means you can't benefit
from anything that I did for the PREVIOUS client; I'll have to bill you
to reinvent all that stuff...")

[If you're "just looking for a paycheck", you view things differently than
if you're looking for interesting challenges to consume the hours of your life]

> I'm replacing a coworker of mine from over 15 years ago (I heard of the
> position opening up because I was invited to her retirement party), and
> one of my other coworkers works there, so in a sense it's family already.

Even better -- as you'll have the inside dope on the place instead of
stumbling into it (at some personal expense).

Good luck!

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#460586

On 5/16/2017 2:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 5/16/2017 12:41 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>>> It will be interesting to hear your observations of how things (i.e.,
>>> design) differ when seeing the corporate world *fresh*.
>>> (even if you don't publicly share them, I suspect you will "notice"
>>> them, at some level)
>>>
>>> I think most of us only see it *once*, "fresh" -- and, at that time,
>>> have little other experience with which to contrast it.
>>
>> I suspect I'll be distracted by getting into the 9-5 routine for the long
>> term -- but yes, it'll be interested.
>
> In hindsight, it was "educational" when I look back on transitioning
> *out* of the 9-5 routine.  Just the idea that *I* could control my
> schedule, what I worked on, the order that I tackled aspects of the
> project, etc.  No need to justify an equipment purchase or worry
> about exceeding that budget.  And, no time wasted in unproductive
> meetings!
>
> Of course, it was ALSO enlightening to discover there was noone
> stocking the "stationery cabinet".  And, no one ordering the
> parts for the prototypes -- or, chasing down shipping errors.
> And, any mistakes were *all* accountable to *me*!  :-/
>
>> Planar seems like a very happy company, and they've made a point to work
>> with me on the whole customer transition thing (basically if I don't mess
>> up with them, they're letting me support my existing projects).  So I'm
>> looking forward to it.
>
> Cool!  As a 9-5, I often had employment agreements that wanted to
> poke fingers in what I did outside of work.  In one case, a prospective
> employer grumbled that he "thought HE would satisfy my need to engage in
> intellectual pursuits -- what MORE would you want?" (this being the
> red flag that had me walk away from their offer)
>
> This persisted into contract work -- where clients would want to "own"
> everything I did for them ("Sure!  But, that means you can't benefit
> from anything that I did for the PREVIOUS client; I'll have to bill you
> to reinvent all that stuff...")
>
> [If you're "just looking for a paycheck", you view things differently than
> if you're looking for interesting challenges to consume the hours of
> your life]
>
>> I'm replacing a coworker of mine from over 15 years ago (I heard of the
>> position opening up because I was invited to her retirement party), and
>> one of my other coworkers works there, so in a sense it's family already.
>
> Even better -- as you'll have the inside dope on the place instead of
> stumbling into it (at some personal expense).
>
> Good luck!
>
Unless the politics have changed dramatically in the last 20 years,
luck won't help you.

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#460588

On Tue, 16 May 2017 14:01:48 -0700, Don Y wrote:

> On 5/16/2017 12:41 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:

>> snip <<

>> I'm replacing a coworker of mine from over 15 years ago (I heard of the
>> position opening up because I was invited to her retirement party), and
>> one of my other coworkers works there, so in a sense it's family
>> already.
> 
> Even better -- as you'll have the inside dope on the place instead of
> stumbling into it (at some personal expense).

I think I basically had the job when I mentioned at her retirement party 
that I was seriously looking.  Once they realized that I was _really_ 
seriously looking _at Planar_, the two former coworkers of mine basically 
dragged me and her manager together and said "hire this man!"

I figured that if it was a nasty place to work there would have been 
reservations of the "Tim, I'll go put in a word for you if you _really_ 
want".

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I'm looking for work -- see my website!

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#460604

On 5/16/2017 3:09 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 14:01:48 -0700, Don Y wrote:
>
>> On 5/16/2017 12:41 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>
>>> snip <<
>
>>> I'm replacing a coworker of mine from over 15 years ago (I heard of the
>>> position opening up because I was invited to her retirement party), and
>>> one of my other coworkers works there, so in a sense it's family
>>> already.
>>
>> Even better -- as you'll have the inside dope on the place instead of
>> stumbling into it (at some personal expense).
>
> I think I basically had the job when I mentioned at her retirement party
> that I was seriously looking.  Once they realized that I was _really_
> seriously looking _at Planar_, the two former coworkers of mine basically
> dragged me and her manager together and said "hire this man!"
>
> I figured that if it was a nasty place to work there would have been
> reservations of the "Tim, I'll go put in a word for you if you _really_
> want".

Yup, I used a similar reasoning when deciding which RFQ's from my
colleagues' firms to ignore/pursue:
    "I think I'll take a pass on your RFQ, Bob"
    "Why?  It's *perfect* for you!"
    "Yeah, but I've been paying attention to all your casual
     complaints about how 'screwed up' the company is and figure
     it's not likely to treat a contractor any better than an
     employee!"

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#460595

On 17/05/17 07:01, Don Y wrote:
>  As a 9-5, I often had employment agreements that wanted to
> poke fingers in what I did outside of work.  In one case, a prospective
> employer grumbled that he "thought HE would satisfy my need to engage in
> intellectual pursuits -- what MORE would you want?" (this being the
> red flag that had me walk away from their offer)
>
> This persisted into contract work -- where clients would want to "own"
> everything I did for them ("Sure!  But, that means you can't benefit
> from anything that I did for the PREVIOUS client; I'll have to bill you
> to reinvent all that stuff...")

Yes to all that. I stopped signing such agreements unmodified
some years ago. Now, where the proposed agreement says that
they own "any invention... etc" I just add "related to the
business of <employer>". Because I invent in many different
fields, I need that protection. I haven't had push-back.
They want me *because* I'm a polyglot.

It's possible that if, for example, I invent a new kind of
office chair while working for them, that they could claim
that their employees all use office chairs, so it's related
to their business... but I don't think that would last long
in court. They don't *sell* chairs.

There was also a remarkably sane ruling some years back in
the Australian High Court, where a software guy brought a
small library of his own, and enhanced it substantially
while working for the company, and after he left they
attacked him for continuing to use it. He claimed to have
re-written it, and because he had done it "to the best of
his ability and knowledge" both times, it was substantially
the same thing. The High Court acknowledged that they had
hired him because he had those abilities, and the company
could not, after he had left, restrain him from practicing
his acquired skill and knowledge for someone else, so their
case was thrown out.

Clifford Heath.

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#460578

On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 20:14:22 UTC+1, Don Y  wrote:
> On 5/16/2017 11:49 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
> > Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
> >
> > Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
> > job.
> 
> Congratulations! (and good luck making the adjustment; the idea of having
> to BE somewhere early in the morning is anathema to me!).
> 
> > Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
> 
> The folks who make displays?  (or, a different "Planar")

Planar make everything that's flat in the world.


NT

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#460564

Good luck and welcome back to the dark side

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#460574

On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott
<seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:

>Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>
>Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day 
>job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any 
>circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by 
>hobby work or on the side.

Software Designer 5?   Sounds a little like being in Sector 7-G?

>In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current 
>customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the 
>educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>
>Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD 
>proselytizing.

Time Division Duplex?



---
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#460575

On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:17:17 +0000, eric.jacobsen wrote:

> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott
> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
> 
>>Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>>
>>Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
>>job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
>>circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
>>hobby work or on the side.
> 
> Software Designer 5?   Sounds a little like being in Sector 7-G?

"Really Senior Embedded Guy".

>>In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>>customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>>educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>>
>>Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>>proselytizing.
> 
> Time Division Duplex?

Test Driven Design.

-- 
www.wescottdesign.com

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#460582

On 16/05/17 21:24, Tim Wescott wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:17:17 +0000, eric.jacobsen wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott
>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
>>
>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>>>
>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
>>> job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
>>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
>>> hobby work or on the side.
>>
>> Software Designer 5?   Sounds a little like being in Sector 7-G?
>
> "Really Senior Embedded Guy".
>
>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>>>
>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>>> proselytizing.
>>
>> Time Division Duplex?
>
> Test Driven Design.

Be prepared to meet some people that believe
X works /because/ all the unit tests for X
are passed and the console shows a green light.

Usually they have never been introduced to the
concept that "you can't test quality into a product".
Unit tests developed as part of TDD are highly
beneficial, but are not sufficient.

But I'm sure you know that!

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#460589

On Tue, 16 May 2017 22:05:49 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote:

> On 16/05/17 21:24, Tim Wescott wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:17:17 +0000, eric.jacobsen wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott
>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>>>>
>>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
>>>> job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
>>>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
>>>> hobby work or on the side.
>>>
>>> Software Designer 5?   Sounds a little like being in Sector 7-G?
>>
>> "Really Senior Embedded Guy".
>>
>>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>>>>
>>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>>>> proselytizing.
>>>
>>> Time Division Duplex?
>>
>> Test Driven Design.
> 
> Be prepared to meet some people that believe X works /because/ all the
> unit tests for X are passed and the console shows a green light.

Well, yes.  The two main good things about TDD for me is that it makes me 
think early about how something really should work, and there are finer-
grained tests to make sure that if I did something really dumbass it gets 
caught.

Even with TDD, I still find errors, so I don't live under the delusion 
that you can test in quality.

> Usually they have never been introduced to the concept that "you can't
> test quality into a product".
> Unit tests developed as part of TDD are highly beneficial, but are not
> sufficient.
> 
> But I'm sure you know that!

Yea verily!!

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I'm looking for work -- see my website!

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#460594

On 16/05/17 23:11, Tim Wescott wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 22:05:49 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote:
>
>> On 16/05/17 21:24, Tim Wescott wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:17:17 +0000, eric.jacobsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott
>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>>>>>
>>>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a day
>>>>> job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so any
>>>>> circuit design or control systems jones will have to be satisfied by
>>>>> hobby work or on the side.
>>>>
>>>> Software Designer 5?   Sounds a little like being in Sector 7-G?
>>>
>>> "Really Senior Embedded Guy".
>>>
>>>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>>>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>>>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>>>>> proselytizing.
>>>>
>>>> Time Division Duplex?
>>>
>>> Test Driven Design.
>>
>> Be prepared to meet some people that believe X works /because/ all the
>> unit tests for X are passed and the console shows a green light.
>
> Well, yes.  The two main good things about TDD for me is that it makes me
> think early about how something really should work, and there are finer-
> grained tests to make sure that if I did something really dumbass it gets
> caught.
>
> Even with TDD, I still find errors, so I don't live under the delusion
> that you can test in quality.
>
>> Usually they have never been introduced to the concept that "you can't
>> test quality into a product".
>> Unit tests developed as part of TDD are highly beneficial, but are not
>> sufficient.
>>
>> But I'm sure you know that!
>
> Yea verily!!

The other dysfunctional aspect of unit tests is that,
while they are very useful when making incremental
improvements during design, they can be a real
impediment in a few months/years time. The problem is
that over time people forget which tests demonstrate
required properties, and which are merely ensuring
behaviour of implementation artifacts. At that point
people are afraid to make changes that break tests,
even if the tests are unimportant. At that point the
codebase has become ossified.

Classic anti-patterns warning of that: unit tests on
getters/setters, and/or changing visibility solely
to enable unit tests.

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#460602

On Tue, 16 May 2017 23:51:26 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote:

> On 16/05/17 23:11, Tim Wescott wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 22:05:49 +0100, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/05/17 21:24, Tim Wescott wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:17:17 +0000, eric.jacobsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:49:28 -0500, Tim Wescott
>>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Since this is a newsgroup, and this is news...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wescott Design Services is going into remission, while I pursue a
>>>>>> day job.  Job title is Software Designer 5 at Planar Systems -- so
>>>>>> any circuit design or control systems jones will have to be
>>>>>> satisfied by hobby work or on the side.
>>>>>
>>>>> Software Designer 5?   Sounds a little like being in Sector 7-G?
>>>>
>>>> "Really Senior Embedded Guy".
>>>>
>>>>>> In the near term I'll be finishing up current work with current
>>>>>> customers; in the longer term I'll probably concentrate on the
>>>>>> educational videos and maybe hobby stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of embedded Linux work in my near future, and possibly TDD
>>>>>> proselytizing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Time Division Duplex?
>>>>
>>>> Test Driven Design.
>>>
>>> Be prepared to meet some people that believe X works /because/ all the
>>> unit tests for X are passed and the console shows a green light.
>>
>> Well, yes.  The two main good things about TDD for me is that it makes
>> me think early about how something really should work, and there are
>> finer- grained tests to make sure that if I did something really
>> dumbass it gets caught.
>>
>> Even with TDD, I still find errors, so I don't live under the delusion
>> that you can test in quality.
>>
>>> Usually they have never been introduced to the concept that "you can't
>>> test quality into a product".
>>> Unit tests developed as part of TDD are highly beneficial, but are not
>>> sufficient.
>>>
>>> But I'm sure you know that!
>>
>> Yea verily!!
> 
> The other dysfunctional aspect of unit tests is that,
> while they are very useful when making incremental improvements during
> design, they can be a real impediment in a few months/years time. The
> problem is that over time people forget which tests demonstrate required
> properties, and which are merely ensuring behaviour of implementation
> artifacts. At that point people are afraid to make changes that break
> tests, even if the tests are unimportant. At that point the codebase has
> become ossified.
> 
> Classic anti-patterns warning of that: unit tests on getters/setters,
> and/or changing visibility solely to enable unit tests.

That's an interesting point.  I haven't been using TDD long enough for 
that to be an issue.  Good to know!

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

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