Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > sci.electronics.design > #460353 > unrolled thread
| Started by | edward.ming.lee@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-05-15 08:14 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-05-27 12:49 -0400 |
| Articles | 9 on this page of 49 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to sci.electronics.design
What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 08:14 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijamesDDD@EEEverizon.net> - 2017-05-15 12:29 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 10:02 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-15 12:43 -0500
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 10:59 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijamesDDD@EEEverizon.net> - 2017-05-15 14:18 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? oldschool@tubes.com - 2017-05-15 14:01 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-15 14:14 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 10:38 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-15 13:10 -0500
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:56 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-15 13:53 -0500
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 13:00 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijamesDDD@EEEverizon.net> - 2017-05-15 17:09 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-15 14:15 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-15 17:34 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 17:41 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-15 18:14 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 19:34 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-15 18:10 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-15 16:28 -0500
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 15:43 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 17:44 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 17:59 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 21:40 +1000
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 08:03 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 09:08 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 09:19 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 09:36 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-16 13:34 -0500
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 12:52 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 13:27 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> - 2017-05-17 02:26 +0000
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 21:50 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijamesDDD@EEEverizon.net> - 2017-05-17 10:46 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 22:31 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijamesDDD@EEEverizon.net> - 2017-05-18 10:26 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:23 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-17 13:59 -0500
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> - 2017-05-18 01:02 +0000
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijamesDDD@EEEverizon.net> - 2017-05-16 15:34 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-16 15:48 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-16 13:05 -0400
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 11:12 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-05-23 07:02 +0000
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-23 07:29 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-15 14:09 -0700
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-05-23 06:43 +0000
Re: What maximum power inverter for car? Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-27 12:49 -0400
Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]
| From | "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijamesDDD@EEEverizon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 15:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <offk8j0u4t@news7.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #460523 |
> You'd need to tell us more about what you're doing. Keeping 5 cu.ft. of space at 150 degree for an hour (local driving). ====================================================== Ok, go to http://tailgatehotbag.com/id1.html and look at the Large Side-Loading Electric Tailgate Hotbag, 17x19x12" inside, plugs into a cigarette lighter and keeps food at 165F, all for $179 + S&H (plus my commission, of course :-)). That's 2.2 cu. ft. each, so buy two or three and wire in your own fused outlets wherever you need them. They have a couple of other shapes if you need a different aspect ratio. Never heard of them before I found them on Google so can't actually recommend them :-). -- Regards, Carl Ijames
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | mike <ham789@netzero.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 15:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <offvh1$u9k$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #460523 |
On 5/16/2017 9:19 AM, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 9:08:54 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >> On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 16:03:08 UTC+1, edward....@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:40:25 AM UTC-7, Chris Jones wrote: >>>> On 16/05/2017 10:59, tabbypurr wrote: >>>>> On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 01:44:15 UTC+1, edward....@gmail.com wrote: >> >>>>>>> Use the exhaust heat. >>>>>> >>>>>> Possible. But rubber hosts (for coolant) is easier to route than metal pipes (exhaust gas). >>>>> >>>>> Less consideration re CO too. But cooling water isn't doing what you want, a flexible exhaust hose system will. >> >>>> Using the waste heat of the engine is a good idea. >>> >>> So, what would be a good way to capture that heat? Small copper pipe with liquid inserted into the tail pipe? >> >> You'd need to tell us more about what you're doing. > > Keeping 5 cu.ft. of space at 150 degree for an hour (local driving). > That should be trivial with decent insulation and not a lot of additional heat. I took a quick look, so someone needs to check my math. Using round numbers at 8 cubic feet. A box 2x2x2' has 24 square feet of surface. If it's 50F in the car, that's 100F difference. Two inches of foam insulation should be about R10. Loss 240 BTU/Hr >> 70 watts...unless I screwed up the math. Hardly seems worth messing with the cooling system or exhaust.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 13:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j9KdnftSzJzNrIbEnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #460509 |
On 05/16/2017 11:03 AM, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:40:25 AM UTC-7, Chris Jones wrote: >> On 16/05/2017 10:59, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 01:44:15 UTC+1, edward....@gmail.com wrote: >>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 3:43:52 PM UTC-7, tabby wrote: >>>>> On Monday, 15 May 2017 21:00:48 UTC+1, edward....@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 11:51:07 AM UTC-7, Jon Elson wrote: >>>>>>> edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looking into high power inverter to run off the car. But for 1000W, it's >>>>>>>> likely draining 80A or 90A from the alternator. Does that mean the >>>>>>>> battery will die even when the engine is running? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe most alternators are around 50A, so max power of 600W? >>>>>>> What the heck are you running in the car that actually NEEDS 1 KW? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good question. Knew someone would ask. Running a 1200W food warmer for an hour, until i can hook it up to the engine heat/cool system. Might not need 1000W, but at least 700W to 800W. >>>>>> >>>>>> Might be easier just to hook up a bank of batteries. >>>>> >>>>> Use the exhaust heat. >>>> >>>> Possible. But rubber hosts (for coolant) is easier to route than metal pipes (exhaust gas). >>> >>> Less consideration re CO too. But cooling water isn't doing what you want, a flexible exhaust hose system will. >>> >>> >>> NT >>> >> >> Using the waste heat of the engine is a good idea. > > So, what would be a good way to capture that heat? Small copper pipe with liquid inserted into the tail pipe? > There are whole cookbooks devoted to cooking food on the exhaust manifold of cars and pickup trucks. (Assuming you can get at them, these days.) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | edward.ming.lee@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 11:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d2f9cca7-70ea-4bd9-8525-cda23c930978@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #460537 |
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 10:05:28 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote: > On 05/16/2017 11:03 AM, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:40:25 AM UTC-7, Chris Jones wrote: > >> On 16/05/2017 10:59, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: > >>> On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 01:44:15 UTC+1, edward....@gmail.com wrote: > >>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 3:43:52 PM UTC-7, tabby wrote: > >>>>> On Monday, 15 May 2017 21:00:48 UTC+1, edward....@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 11:51:07 AM UTC-7, Jon Elson wrote: > >>>>>>> edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Looking into high power inverter to run off the car. But for 1000W, it's > >>>>>>>> likely draining 80A or 90A from the alternator. Does that mean the > >>>>>>>> battery will die even when the engine is running? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I believe most alternators are around 50A, so max power of 600W? > >>>>>>> What the heck are you running in the car that actually NEEDS 1 KW? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Good question. Knew someone would ask. Running a 1200W food warmer for an hour, until i can hook it up to the engine heat/cool system. Might not need 1000W, but at least 700W to 800W. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Might be easier just to hook up a bank of batteries. > >>>>> > >>>>> Use the exhaust heat. > >>>> > >>>> Possible. But rubber hosts (for coolant) is easier to route than metal pipes (exhaust gas). > >>> > >>> Less consideration re CO too. But cooling water isn't doing what you want, a flexible exhaust hose system will. > >>> > >>> > >>> NT > >>> > >> > >> Using the waste heat of the engine is a good idea. > > > > So, what would be a good way to capture that heat? Small copper pipe with liquid inserted into the tail pipe? > > > > There are whole cookbooks devoted to cooking food on the exhaust > manifold of cars and pickup trucks. (Assuming you can get at them, > these days.) > We prefer to keep it at the rear, or even a trailer, rather than the engine compartment We don't need to cook it, just keep it hot/warm.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-23 07:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <og0mpq$qro$3@gonzo.alcatraz> |
| In reply to | #460417 |
On 2017-05-15, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote: > On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 11:51:07 AM UTC-7, Jon Elson wrote: >> edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: >> >> > Looking into high power inverter to run off the car. But for 1000W, it's >> > likely draining 80A or 90A from the alternator. Does that mean the >> > battery will die even when the engine is running? >> > >> > I believe most alternators are around 50A, so max power of 600W? >> What the heck are you running in the car that actually NEEDS 1 KW? >> >> Jon > > Good question. Knew someone would ask. Running a 1200W food warmer for an hour, until i can hook it up to the engine heat/cool system. Might not need 1000W, but at least 700W to 800W. measure how much power it needs to maintain that temperature, it could be that you only need 120W or so once it's hot - then you could run it off a 48V inverter with the same plug heating element and thermostat -- This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | edward.ming.lee@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-23 07:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <99aaa700-09ca-4319-936e-26a88c3c1c30@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #461325 |
On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 1:01:09 AM UTC-7, Jasen Betts wrote: > On 2017-05-15, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 11:51:07 AM UTC-7, Jon Elson wrote: > >> edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: > >> > >> > Looking into high power inverter to run off the car. But for 1000W, it's > >> > likely draining 80A or 90A from the alternator. Does that mean the > >> > battery will die even when the engine is running? > >> > > >> > I believe most alternators are around 50A, so max power of 600W? > >> What the heck are you running in the car that actually NEEDS 1 KW? > >> > >> Jon > > > > Good question. Knew someone would ask. Running a 1200W food warmer for an hour, until i can hook it up to the engine heat/cool system. Might not need 1000W, but at least 700W to 800W. > > measure how much power it needs to maintain that temperature, > it could be that you only need 120W or so once it's hot - then you > could run it off a 48V inverter with the same plug heating element > and thermostat Delivered http://75.101.56.77/hotbox.jpg to the Millbrae High School Football field (actually drove on the track). The box was sealed with plastic, paper and towel. Around 3 gallons of water (bottom cooker) was boiled with natural gas, heated with 110A/C, then 750W inverter. The inverter was beeping (overloaded) all along the 30 minutes drive. So, not sure if it did anything. Anyway, the food was piping hot there and the kids were happy.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-15 14:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ofd57e$pug$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #460353 |
On 5/15/2017 8:14 AM, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote: > Looking into high power inverter to run off the car. But for 1000W, it's > likely draining 80A or 90A from the alternator. Does that mean the battery > will die even when the engine is running? If you run it long enough, the surplus power will, of course, come from the battery -- until the battery is unable to keep the engine running! You may find that you cook the diode trio in the alternator before that point -- alternators aren't intended to run at 100% duty cycle. Also, consider how you're going to get that power *from* the battery terminals to your load. If you're stuck with a 12V supply, you'll want to keep those cables very short to avoid large IR losses. If your need is only temporary, consider tossing a spare battery in the trunk with a *light* feed from the engine (behind a diode) to pick up part of the load. Then, when THAT battery runs flat, you can still drive home. (Trunk is a better location for a battery, regardless. Under the hood is just a matter of convenience -- and shorter wire run to starter) > I believe most alternators are around 50A, so max power of 600W? Depends on the alternator and vehicle. My buddy's truck has a *pair* of 150A alternators and a pair of oversized batteries (for the 7L diesel) Are you sure you really *need* 1000W? Just because the thing you are powering CLAIMS to be rated at 1000W doesn't mean it will actually DRAW that!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-23 06:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <og0lm4$qro$2@gonzo.alcatraz> |
| In reply to | #460353 |
On 2017-05-15, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote: > Looking into high power inverter to run off the car. But for 1000W, it's likely draining 80A or 90A from the alternator. Does that mean the battery will die even when the engine is running? > > I believe most alternators are around 50A, so max power of 600W? it depends on the appliance you connect to the inverter, a 1600W hair dryer would be bad after a while. -- This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Neon John <no@never.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-27 12:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <6t9jic9d3kdcarp6oiovqnhf1ck3nr3krv@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #461324 |
On 23 May 2017 06:43:16 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >On 2017-05-15, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote: >> Looking into high power inverter to run off the car. But for 1000W, it's likely draining 80A or 90A from the alternator. Does that mean the battery will die even when the engine is running? Even small cars have alternators in the 80 amp range. My Ford F-150 truck with the towing package has a 175 amp alternator. Interestingly it has a hall effect sensor on the output and another one on the negative battery lead. It's amazing what all the PCM does to manage the battery and alternator - even such small stuff as an anti-squeal algorithm. The engine has a "fly by wire" servo-controlled throttle. The PCM will even rev up the engine a bit to keep up with demand. What you can run depends on the nature of the load. If you plan on operating something continuously then the amp draw has to be below the alternator's rating. OTOH, if your load is intermittent then you can draw far more power than the alternator is capable of, with the battery filling in. I live at the end of a 25 mile long mountain road. I always carry a 2kW inverter, an electric chain saw and 100 ft of light gauge extension cord. I have turned up the output voltage of the inverter to make up for the voltage drop across the extension cord. Here's my page on installing the inverter. http://www.neon-john.com/RV/Electrical/2000_watt_inverter/index.htm The alternator can keep up with this saw. My last vehicle was a Ford minivan. I had the same setup. The alternator could not handle the saw so the battery filled in, acting as a capacitor to supply the surge current. I made mine portable because I could not find a place on the truck that was dry. The only place would be under the seat but I didn't want to drill the galvanized floorpan. So I keep the goodies in my truck bed toolbox and get them out as needed. A couple of weeks ago we had a linear wind storm here that made the national news. Sustained winds of 85mph. I had to leave the mountain that day. I cut and towed about a dozen trees with this setup before giving up and going home. It's interesting to hear the truck engine speed up a little every time I pull the saw's trigger. :-) The next day the Forest Service had the road clear and I counted 96 stumps! This little combo worked great! That little Remington $35 saw that I thought would be a throw-away worked like a champ. So in summary, you must do a little engineering before you select an inverter. Use the 1:10 rule. For every 1 amp the 120 volt load draws, the inverter will draw about 10 amps. After you know what your 12 volt amperage needs are, you can calculate the inverter wattage that you'll need and determine if your car's alternator can handle the load. John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address
[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]
Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]
Back to top | Article view | sci.electronics.design
csiph-web