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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #460350 > unrolled thread

Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp

Started by"Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net>
First post2017-05-15 09:49 -0500
Last post2017-05-19 06:29 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 45 — 20 participants

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  Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net> - 2017-05-15 09:49 -0500
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-15 08:09 -0700
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net> - 2017-05-16 12:53 -0500
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 03:04 -0700
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 09:02 -0700
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-15 08:18 -0700
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 17:15 -0700
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-16 05:49 -0700
          Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net> - 2017-05-16 13:00 -0500
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 15:57 +0000
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-15 09:02 -0700
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-15 09:03 -0700
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 16:07 +0000
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-15 09:17 -0700
          Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 16:46 +0000
            Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 10:08 -0700
              Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-15 11:13 -0700
              Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Clifford Heath <clifford.heath@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 10:14 +1000
                Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 08:36 +0000
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-15 12:48 -0500
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 11:18 -0700
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-16 10:08 -0500
          Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 11:19 -0700
            Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-16 11:32 -0700
              Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-16 16:02 -0400
                Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 20:19 -0700
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 16:59 -0700
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 21:54 +1000
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 06:06 -0700
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 06:57 -0700
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-15 18:42 -0700
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-15 21:55 -0400
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-16 05:53 -0700
          Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 14:23 +0000
          Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-16 12:28 -0400
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 20:27 +0100
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-16 16:03 -0700
          Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 19:34 +0100
            Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-17 11:47 -0700
            Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 04:43 -0700
          Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 16:30 +0000
        Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 16:07 -0700
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 00:45 -0700
    Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp sroberts6328@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:57 -0700
      Re: Using consumer-grade power amp as Power opamp George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-19 06:29 -0700

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#460392

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2017-05-15 11:18 -0700
Message-ID<c6sjhc57g5eojbeo711n3trqs7l25vqa85@4ax.com>
In reply to#460384
On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:48:08 -0500, Tim Wescott
<seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:

>On Mon, 15 May 2017 09:49:45 -0500, Dave M wrote:
>
>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
>> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
>> Any reason they shouldn't be used as power supply regulators, TEC
>> controllers, etc?
>> 
>> Dave M
>
>If the super-est best-est performance isn't an issue, a plain old op-amp 
>driving an emitter follower stage often works well, particularly in a 1-
>quadrant amplifier such as a regulator or TEC controller.

Or an opamp driving the adjust pin of a 3T regulator. That has some
nice points.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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#460512

FromTim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really>
Date2017-05-16 10:08 -0500
Message-ID<ZM6dnR2Kd4RhiIbEnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#460392
On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:18:36 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

> On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:48:08 -0500, Tim Wescott
> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 15 May 2017 09:49:45 -0500, Dave M wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
>>> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
>>> Any reason they shouldn't be used as power supply regulators, TEC
>>> controllers, etc?
>>> 
>>> Dave M
>>
>>If the super-est best-est performance isn't an issue, a plain old op-amp
>>driving an emitter follower stage often works well, particularly in a 1-
>>quadrant amplifier such as a regulator or TEC controller.
> 
> Or an opamp driving the adjust pin of a 3T regulator. That has some nice
> points.

Current limit and thermal shutdown not least among them.  What else?

-- 
www.wescottdesign.com

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#460544

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2017-05-16 11:19 -0700
Message-ID<jigmhchkjbol89ur7e2lqdrp4944j6u8mk@4ax.com>
In reply to#460512
On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:08:44 -0500, Tim Wescott
<tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:

>On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:18:36 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:48:08 -0500, Tim Wescott
>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
>> 
>>>On Mon, 15 May 2017 09:49:45 -0500, Dave M wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
>>>> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
>>>> Any reason they shouldn't be used as power supply regulators, TEC
>>>> controllers, etc?
>>>> 
>>>> Dave M
>>>
>>>If the super-est best-est performance isn't an issue, a plain old op-amp
>>>driving an emitter follower stage often works well, particularly in a 1-
>>>quadrant amplifier such as a regulator or TEC controller.
>> 
>> Or an opamp driving the adjust pin of a 3T regulator. That has some nice
>> points.
>
>Current limit and thermal shutdown not least among them.  What else?

That's mostly it. C-load stability is good, too. And cost.

I tried every imaginable way to destroy an LM1117 by abusing the Vadj
pin, and it survived.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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#460547

FromGeorge Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
Date2017-05-16 11:32 -0700
Message-ID<3ffc334c-5ac3-4e91-a736-4230088029b8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460544
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:20:04 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:08:44 -0500, Tim Wescott
> <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:18:36 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:48:08 -0500, Tim Wescott
> >> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
> >> 
> >>>On Mon, 15 May 2017 09:49:45 -0500, Dave M wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
> >>>> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
> >>>> Any reason they shouldn't be used as power supply regulators, TEC
> >>>> controllers, etc?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Dave M
> >>>
> >>>If the super-est best-est performance isn't an issue, a plain old op-amp
> >>>driving an emitter follower stage often works well, particularly in a 1-
> >>>quadrant amplifier such as a regulator or TEC controller.
> >> 
> >> Or an opamp driving the adjust pin of a 3T regulator. That has some nice
> >> points.
> >
> >Current limit and thermal shutdown not least among them.  What else?
> 
> That's mostly it. C-load stability is good, too. And cost.
> 
> I tried every imaginable way to destroy an LM1117 by abusing the Vadj
> pin, and it survived.

Student's managed to blow up an LM395, you are probably just not 
'creative' enough. :^) (It involved mistakenly putting a big ass coil
on the output.)  

George H.     
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
> picosecond timing   precision measurement 
> 
> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
> http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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#460571

FromPhil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>
Date2017-05-16 16:02 -0400
Message-ID<icydnQ7yu8d6x4bEnZ2dnUU7-QXNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#460547
On 05/16/2017 02:32 PM, George Herold wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:20:04 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:08:44 -0500, Tim Wescott
>> <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:18:36 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:48:08 -0500, Tim Wescott
>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 15 May 2017 09:49:45 -0500, Dave M wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
>>>>>> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
>>>>>> Any reason they shouldn't be used as power supply regulators, TEC
>>>>>> controllers, etc?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave M
>>>>>
>>>>> If the super-est best-est performance isn't an issue, a plain old op-amp
>>>>> driving an emitter follower stage often works well, particularly in a 1-
>>>>> quadrant amplifier such as a regulator or TEC controller.
>>>>
>>>> Or an opamp driving the adjust pin of a 3T regulator. That has some nice
>>>> points.
>>>
>>> Current limit and thermal shutdown not least among them.  What else?
>>
>> That's mostly it. C-load stability is good, too. And cost.
>>
>> I tried every imaginable way to destroy an LM1117 by abusing the Vadj
>> pin, and it survived.
> 
> Student's managed to blow up an LM395, you are probably just not 
> 'creative' enough. :^) (It involved mistakenly putting a big ass coil
> on the output.)  
> 
> George H. 

I remember that one--it hit the thermal limit, tried to turn off, and
the inductive kick blew it up.  Creative, as you say. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

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#460634

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-05-16 20:19 -0700
Message-ID<p9gnhcpgnpbsr0celhacutqpl7tj74r5co@4ax.com>
In reply to#460571
On Tue, 16 May 2017 16:02:47 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 05/16/2017 02:32 PM, George Herold wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:20:04 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:08:44 -0500, Tim Wescott
>>> <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:18:36 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:48:08 -0500, Tim Wescott
>>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 15 May 2017 09:49:45 -0500, Dave M wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
>>>>>>> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
>>>>>>> Any reason they shouldn't be used as power supply regulators, TEC
>>>>>>> controllers, etc?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the super-est best-est performance isn't an issue, a plain old op-amp
>>>>>> driving an emitter follower stage often works well, particularly in a 1-
>>>>>> quadrant amplifier such as a regulator or TEC controller.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or an opamp driving the adjust pin of a 3T regulator. That has some nice
>>>>> points.
>>>>
>>>> Current limit and thermal shutdown not least among them.  What else?
>>>
>>> That's mostly it. C-load stability is good, too. And cost.
>>>
>>> I tried every imaginable way to destroy an LM1117 by abusing the Vadj
>>> pin, and it survived.
>> 
>> Student's managed to blow up an LM395, you are probably just not 
>> 'creative' enough. :^) (It involved mistakenly putting a big ass coil
>> on the output.)  
>> 
>> George H. 
>
>I remember that one--it hit the thermal limit, tried to turn off, and
>the inductive kick blew it up.  Creative, as you say. ;)
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

It just lost the will to live.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

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#460441

FromPhil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-15 16:59 -0700
Message-ID<85b69e91-8739-4d25-929b-714dfefc79cb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460350
Dave M wrote:

----------------
> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the 
> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
>


** Generally they are not unity gain stable. 

 Audio power amps have a voltage gain of 10 to 50 times in most cases. 



.....  Phil

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#460488

FromChris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com>
Date2017-05-16 21:54 +1000
Message-ID<0MBSA.49093$R12.33403@fx16.am4>
In reply to#460441
On 16/05/2017 09:59, Phil Allison wrote:
> Dave M wrote:
>
> ----------------
>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
>> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
>>
>
>
> ** Generally they are not unity gain stable.
>
>  Audio power amps have a voltage gain of 10 to 50 times in most cases.
>

Yes, that is a consideration. The "noise gain" needs to be high but not 
necessarily the gain from the input of the circuit as a whole. You can 
of course lower the gain back to unity by attenuating the input, or a 
number of other tricks.

The TDA2030 and similar ones also need a series R-C from the output to 
ground, I think it is called a "Zobel network". Usually the capacitor is 
100nF or so, and the resistor 1 Ohm or so. Without this it can oscillate.

The DC offset voltage is also pretty terrible and unstable with temperature.

The quiescent supply current of the TDA2030 is also quite high and could 
be a problem in some applications.

I have used TDA2030 chips in electroplating power supplies, configured 
as Howland current sources. I also used similar ones in voice coil 
drivers using an old hard driver voice coil as an actuator, and for 
driving power LEDs with a controlled current waveform. The reason why I 
used these audio amplifier chips is because they were very cheap and 
quite powerful.

The TDA2030 is discontinued now. It was one of my favourite parts, not 
because it was easy to use but I guess because I got a lot of use out of 
them (e.g. as a kid I connected one to my crystal radio for driving a 
speaker) and they were very cheap so they seemed like a good deal.

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#460493

FromPhil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-16 06:06 -0700
Message-ID<34782895-8b35-416e-a686-792fd9fed4cc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460488
Chris Jones wrote:

------------------

> 
> >> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
> >> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
> >>
> >
> >
> > ** Generally they are not unity gain stable.
> >
> >  Audio power amps have a voltage gain of 10 to 50 times in most cases.
> >
> 
> Yes, that is a consideration. The "noise gain" needs to be high but not 
> necessarily the gain from the input of the circuit as a whole. You can 
> of course lower the gain back to unity by attenuating the input, or a 
> number of other tricks.
> 

** A low impedance between the + and - inputs does the trick. 

   Say 100hms plus a 22nF cap in series. 

   Leaves the DC condiitons in place. 


....  Phil

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#460497

Fromtabbypurr@gmail.com
Date2017-05-16 06:57 -0700
Message-ID<826542d9-667d-458d-badd-06d572ea46c5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460488
On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 12:54:40 UTC+1, Chris Jones  wrote:
> On 16/05/2017 09:59, Phil Allison wrote:
> > Dave M wrote:
> >
> > ----------------
> >> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps such as the
> >> LM1825, TDA2030, or TDS7297  as a basic DC power opamp?
> >>
> >
> >
> > ** Generally they are not unity gain stable.
> >
> >  Audio power amps have a voltage gain of 10 to 50 times in most cases.
> >
> 
> Yes, that is a consideration. The "noise gain" needs to be high but not 
> necessarily the gain from the input of the circuit as a whole. You can 
> of course lower the gain back to unity by attenuating the input, or a 
> number of other tricks.
> 
> The TDA2030 and similar ones also need a series R-C from the output to 
> ground, I think it is called a "Zobel network". Usually the capacitor is 
> 100nF or so, and the resistor 1 Ohm or so. Without this it can oscillate.
> 
> The DC offset voltage is also pretty terrible and unstable with temperature.
> 
> The quiescent supply current of the TDA2030 is also quite high and could 
> be a problem in some applications.
> 
> I have used TDA2030 chips in electroplating power supplies, configured 
> as Howland current sources. I also used similar ones in voice coil 
> drivers using an old hard driver voice coil as an actuator, and for 
> driving power LEDs with a controlled current waveform. The reason why I 
> used these audio amplifier chips is because they were very cheap and 
> quite powerful.
> 
> The TDA2030 is discontinued now. It was one of my favourite parts, not 
> because it was easy to use but I guess because I got a lot of use out of 
> them (e.g. as a kid I connected one to my crystal radio for driving a 
> speaker) and they were very cheap so they seemed like a good deal.

The Zobel is only needed when driving an inductive load.


NT

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#460456

FromWinfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu>
Date2017-05-15 18:42 -0700
Message-ID<ofdleo02voc@drn.newsguy.com>
In reply to#460350
Dave M wrote...
> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...

 Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
 are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
 well as a linear amps.  I have my favorites.  Especially
 high-performance ICs that are well represented in complete
 PCBs from China, available at rock-bottom prices on eBay.

 An example, IRS2092.  This Intersil PWM IC has +/-100V range,
 can be pushed to 1MHz, and provides 1A gate drive to a pair
 of n-channel HV MOSFETs.  A popular combo: a 250W amplifier
 using an IRFI4019: two 150V, 6A FETs in a TO-220F-5 package.

 E.g., eBay item 122463174432 for $20 + $3 shipping.  These
 can be DC coupled by bypassing the AC coupling capacitor.
 This item, an L15DSMD 250W amp, is based on IR's IRAUDAMP7S.
 http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lgEAAOSww3tY6ml0/s-l1600.jpg
 Recommended supply with 8-ohm speakers, +/-50V.  But given
 the IRFI4019's rating, you'd want to stay under +/-65V.

 Another combo, IRS2092 + two IRFB4227: 200V, 45A TO-220 FETs,
 for a 1000-Watt amplifier, eBay item 222177230692, $63+$10.


-- 
 Thanks,
    - Win

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#460459

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-05-15 21:55 -0400
Message-ID<evmkhcp9tt3oooa3pjjleq124ch0lnjf3g@4ax.com>
In reply to#460456
On 15 May 2017 18:42:48 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

>Dave M wrote...
>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...
>
> Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
> well as a linear amps.  I have my favorites.  Especially
> high-performance ICs that are well represented in complete
> PCBs from China, available at rock-bottom prices on eBay.

Define "consumer grade".  Class-AB amplifiers are the norm in
automotive applications.

>
> An example, IRS2092.  This Intersil PWM IC has +/-100V range,
> can be pushed to 1MHz, and provides 1A gate drive to a pair
> of n-channel HV MOSFETs.  A popular combo: a 250W amplifier
> using an IRFI4019: two 150V, 6A FETs in a TO-220F-5 package.
>
> E.g., eBay item 122463174432 for $20 + $3 shipping.  These
> can be DC coupled by bypassing the AC coupling capacitor.
> This item, an L15DSMD 250W amp, is based on IR's IRAUDAMP7S.
> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lgEAAOSww3tY6ml0/s-l1600.jpg
> Recommended supply with 8-ohm speakers, +/-50V.  But given
> the IRFI4019's rating, you'd want to stay under +/-65V.
>
> Another combo, IRS2092 + two IRFB4227: 200V, 45A TO-220 FETs,
> for a 1000-Watt amplifier, eBay item 222177230692, $63+$10.

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#460492

FromWinfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu>
Date2017-05-16 05:53 -0700
Message-ID<ofeso501uek@drn.newsguy.com>
In reply to#460459
krw@notreal.com wrote...
>
> Winfield Hill wrote:
>> Dave M wrote...
>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...
>>
>> Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
>> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
>> well as a linear amps.  I have my favorites.  Especially
>> high-performance ICs that are well represented in complete
>> PCBs from China, available at rock-bottom prices on eBay.
>
> Define "consumer grade".  Class-AB amplifiers are the
> norm in automotive applications.

 The high-power amps I mentioned are clearly consumer grade;
 they're not studio amps, SFAIK, although the specs may be
 good enough.  As for automotive systems, I imagine they've
 pretty much all moved to class D.  Using parts like TI's
 tpa3116 family of dual 15 to 50-watt BTL amps.  These are
 "filter free", have "AM Avoidance" with PLL-based multiple 
 switching frequencies (to 1.2MHz), and with SpeakerGuard. 
 50W part, $2 qty 10k.  http://www.ti.com/product/tpa3116d2 
 Four channel and up are available, like the TAS5414C.

 Class D provides OK sound quality, is cheap and doesn't
 get hot - these issues are important to designers, no?


-- 
 Thanks,
    - Win

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#460504

FromJan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
Date2017-05-16 14:23 +0000
Message-ID<off21r$ggv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460492
On a sunny day (16 May 2017 05:53:25 -0700) it happened Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote in <ofeso501uek@drn.newsguy.com>:

>krw@notreal.com wrote...
>>
>> Winfield Hill wrote:
>>> Dave M wrote...
>>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...
>>>
>>> Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
>>> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
>>> well as a linear amps.  I have my favorites.  Especially
>>> high-performance ICs that are well represented in complete
>>> PCBs from China, available at rock-bottom prices on eBay.
>>
>> Define "consumer grade".  Class-AB amplifiers are the
>> norm in automotive applications.
>
> The high-power amps I mentioned are clearly consumer grade;
> they're not studio amps, SFAIK, although the specs may be
> good enough.  As for automotive systems, I imagine they've
> pretty much all moved to class D.  Using parts like TI's
> tpa3116 family of dual 15 to 50-watt BTL amps.  These are
> "filter free", have "AM Avoidance" with PLL-based multiple 
> switching frequencies (to 1.2MHz), and with SpeakerGuard. 
> 50W part, $2 qty 10k.  http://www.ti.com/product/tpa3116d2 
> Four channel and up are available, like the TAS5414C.
>
> Class D provides OK sound quality, is cheap and doesn't
> get hot - these issues are important to designers, no?

Looks like an interesting chip,
but all those switch mode wall warts already kill the shortwave band here.
Seems a bad idea on say a boat that also needs SSB short wave say for sendmail or whatever.
Are we just sacrificing parts of a useful spectrum just for power sake?

Actually I had some sort of switching power amp from ebay, not that chip, it died in a very short time,
don't even remember why, used the inductors for something else.

It all depends...

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#460526

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-05-16 12:28 -0400
Message-ID<9k9mhchr5rtjmkb9r3u78sq99nb85c2bk7@4ax.com>
In reply to#460492
On 16 May 2017 05:53:25 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

>krw@notreal.com wrote...
>>
>> Winfield Hill wrote:
>>> Dave M wrote...
>>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...
>>>
>>> Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
>>> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
>>> well as a linear amps.  I have my favorites.  Especially
>>> high-performance ICs that are well represented in complete
>>> PCBs from China, available at rock-bottom prices on eBay.
>>
>> Define "consumer grade".  Class-AB amplifiers are the
>> norm in automotive applications.
>
> The high-power amps I mentioned are clearly consumer grade;
> they're not studio amps, SFAIK, although the specs may be
> good enough.  As for automotive systems, I imagine they've
> pretty much all moved to class D.  


Nope.  The classics are still class-AB from ST, NXP, and Toshiba.
There are some class-Ds used but it's not the norm.  They're too
expensive and not needed.

>Using parts like TI's
> tpa3116 family of dual 15 to 50-watt BTL amps.  These are
> "filter free", have "AM Avoidance" with PLL-based multiple 
> switching frequencies (to 1.2MHz), and with SpeakerGuard. 
> 50W part, $2 qty 10k.  http://www.ti.com/product/tpa3116d2 
> Four channel and up are available, like the TAS5414C.

Power is limited by speaker impedance and Vcc.  In a car, for
practical purposes that's 2-ohms and 14V, which gets close to 50W.  It
doesn't matter what the class.  

> Class D provides OK sound quality, is cheap and doesn't
> get hot - these issues are important to designers, no?

Cheap matters.  Class-D is not.  Heat doesn't matter much.  You're not
really pumping 600W into a car cabin.

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#460566

From"Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk>
Date2017-05-16 20:27 +0100
Message-ID<AuKdnUxg3qkjz4bEnZ2dnUU7-Q_NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#460456
"Winfield Hill"  wrote in message news:ofdleo02voc@drn.newsguy.com...

Dave M wrote...
> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...

>Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
> well as a linear amps.

This, of course, depends on the colour of your ears, and their 
reflectability...

-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html

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#460596

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-05-16 16:03 -0700
Message-ID<p71nhcpc8djf4im089o8js57gsg4q5ksuc@4ax.com>
In reply to#460566
On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:27:57 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
<kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:

>"Winfield Hill"  wrote in message news:ofdleo02voc@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>Dave M wrote...
>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...
>
>>Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
>> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
>> well as a linear amps.
>
>This, of course, depends on the colour of your ears, and their 
>reflectability...
>
>-- Kevin Aylward
>http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
>http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
>
>
>

Try listening to class-D crap via hearing aids that are class-D :-(

Class-D is for audiophools.
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

"It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that
is the secret of happiness."  -James Barrie

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#460683

From"Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk>
Date2017-05-17 19:34 +0100
Message-ID<rdednS32UpI-CoHEnZ2dnUU7-bvNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#460596
"Jim Thompson"  wrote in message 
news:p71nhcpc8djf4im089o8js57gsg4q5ksuc@4ax.com...

On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:27:57 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
<kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:

>"Winfield Hill"  wrote in message news:ofdleo02voc@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>Dave M wrote...
>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...
>
>>Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
>> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
>> well as a linear amps.
>
>This, of course, depends on the colour of your ears, and their
>reflectability...
>
>-- Kevin Aylward
>http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
>http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
>
>
>

>Try listening to class-D crap via hearing aids that are class-D :-(

>Class-D is for audiophools.

I have 5 kW of pro audio power amps, none of them are class D.

The weigh a bit, but its just an addition to my few times a week weight 
training at the gym. I am only 60kg, so I need the practice.

-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html

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#460684

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-05-17 11:47 -0700
Message-ID<3h6phct0cip3gb7gq0er9kfs00oc369to0@4ax.com>
In reply to#460683
On Wed, 17 May 2017 19:34:11 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
<kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:

>"Jim Thompson"  wrote in message 
>news:p71nhcpc8djf4im089o8js57gsg4q5ksuc@4ax.com...
>
>On Tue, 16 May 2017 20:27:57 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>"Winfield Hill"  wrote in message news:ofdleo02voc@drn.newsguy.com...
>>
>>Dave M wrote...
>>> Has anyone used any of the consumer-grade audio power amps ...
>>
>>>Sorry, but these days "consumer-grade audio power amps"
>>> are all class-D.  In general most of these can perform as
>>> well as a linear amps.
>>
>>This, of course, depends on the colour of your ears, and their
>>reflectability...
>>
>>-- Kevin Aylward
>>http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
>>http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>>Try listening to class-D crap via hearing aids that are class-D :-(
>
>>Class-D is for audiophools.
>
>I have 5 kW of pro audio power amps, none of them are class D.
>
>The weigh a bit, but its just an addition to my few times a week weight 
>training at the gym. I am only 60kg, so I need the practice.
>
>-- Kevin Aylward
>http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
>http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html 

I fondly remember my first UltraLinear... with power and output
transformers it took two people to carry it ;-)
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

"It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that
is the secret of happiness."  -James Barrie

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#460771

FromPhil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-18 04:43 -0700
Message-ID<b08b6c1b-c94d-43ae-8a73-d4299851b733@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460683
Kevin Aylward wrote:

---------------------

> 
>
> 
> >Class-D is for audiophools.
> 
> I have 5 kW of pro audio power amps, none of them are class D.
> 
> The weigh a bit, but its just an addition to my few times a week weight 
> training at the gym. I am only 60kg, so I need the practice.
> 
>
>

** Have you come across the Behringer iNUKE amps yet ??  

SMPSs plus class D output stages. 

I tested an iNUKE 6000 recently and found it pretty much meets all its specs - with the switching transformer and output FETs running reasonably cool.

I found it puts out 2500wpc with low THD - about 0.3%. 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NU6000

Weighs under 12 pounds and sells for around $US350. 

A real game changer. 



.....  Phil

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