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Re: Codewright Failure

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  Re: Codewright Failure rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 15:40 -0400
    Re: Codewright Failure John Speth <johnspeth@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-24 12:54 -0700
      Re: Codewright Failure rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:10 -0400
        Re: Codewright Failure George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-24 22:50 -0400
          Re: Codewright Failure rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 15:39 -0400
            Re: Codewright Failure George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-26 04:55 -0400
            Re: Codewright Failure David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-27 10:05 +0200
              Re: Codewright Failure Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-27 14:27 +0300
                Re: Codewright Failure David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-27 14:01 +0200
                  Re: Codewright Failure Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-27 19:41 +0300

#453432 — Re: Codewright Failure

On 2/16/2017 9:36 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 2/16/2017 9:18 PM, John Speth wrote:
>> On 2/16/2017 2:17 PM, rickman wrote:
>>> Newsgroups are my last ditch resource for bugs with old software.  I
>>> know Codewright is old and no longer supported.  But I have it and I'm
>>> not ready to switch.  Meanwhile, something happend while I was running
>>> in safe mode and now Codewright is messed up when running in standard
>>> windows mode.
>>>
>>> I can open files, but I can't select anything in them or do any edits. I
>>> can't even position the cursor with the mouse.  All the great chroma
>>> formatting is gone.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?  Is it finally time to bail on Codewright and switch to
>>> Emacs?  I tried that once and the initial Emacs screen scared me!  It
>>> was totally non-intuitive.
>>
>> I'm a CW user too.  My version is 4.0e from 1996 (Win95 days).  Over the
>> past year, I've seen my version having problems starting in 64-bit
>> windows.  Occasionally it will self corrupt some of its binaries.  I
>> keep a zip file of my entire CW32 tree, basically a known good restore
>> archive.  When I suspect a corruption problem, I save the cwright.ini
>> file somewhere else.  Then I delete the CW32 directory tree (safer to
>> rename and delete later).  Then I unzip my restore archive and copy in
>> the saved cwright.ini file only after I've verified that it's not
>> corrupted too (which hasn't happened yet).  Then things always work.
>>
>> Of course, you might be experiencing a different set of problems.  I
>> hope I was able to help.
>>
>> Now I digress:
>>
>> My CW seems to have some problem starting with 64 bit windows.  It will
>> just freeze on the splash screen.  I'd love to know why that happens.
>> Experimenting with various compatibility modes doesn't solve the problem.
>>
>> CW hates long directory paths and very long file names.  I am certain
>> that long names cause internal memory corruption.  When it happens, CW
>> reports an out-of-memory error and then disappears.  Sometimes after the
>> same stressing, the edit windows show garbage and I need to restart it.
>> I find I need to treat her gently occasionally.
>>
>> I have a bunch of custom DLLs that I use that makes it hard to switch
>> editors.  I haven't found an editor yet that gives me the same
>> productivity I get with CW.  A 20 year relationship with an editor is
>> hard to walk away from.
>>
>> I acknowledge that there are many great editors with many advanced
>> features.  But my productivity in keyboard-to-code is always way better
>> with CW.
>
> I've got the latest, 7.5.  You used to be able to find it on the web
> because it was orphaned.  But it seems someone bought the rights and is
> selling it for $300+.  Not sure who would be buying it, but it was
> popular with mainframe support people (meaning it was sold with their
> other tools so they just bought it too) and maybe there are still those
> who just buy the package in order to support some ancient systems
> (meaning 20 years old).
>
> If you'd like to update to 7.5, contact me offline.  redsp@yahoo.com.
> I'm in the middle of a web site port... a terrible time for my editor to
> be down.  I may need to dig out my backups.

Things aren't looking so good for Codewright.  I figured my issue was 
file corruption, so I finally dug up my old laptop disk.  I copied the 
CW directory over to the new laptop and it runs the same.  So I guess 
the problem is in the registry maybe?  Anyone know how to figure that out?

-- 

Rick C

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#453433

> Things aren't looking so good for Codewright.  I figured my issue was
> file corruption, so I finally dug up my old laptop disk.  I copied the
> CW directory over to the new laptop and it runs the same.  So I guess
> the problem is in the registry maybe?  Anyone know how to figure that out?

I wonder if the registry is even used with CW 7.5. I know for certain 
that my older 4.0e version does not touch the registry.

JJS

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#453436

On 3/24/2017 3:54 PM, John Speth wrote:
>> Things aren't looking so good for Codewright.  I figured my issue was
>> file corruption, so I finally dug up my old laptop disk.  I copied the
>> CW directory over to the new laptop and it runs the same.  So I guess
>> the problem is in the registry maybe?  Anyone know how to figure that
>> out?
>
> I wonder if the registry is even used with CW 7.5. I know for certain
> that my older 4.0e version does not touch the registry.

Then what else could it be?  I found a number of web pages telling you 
how to uninstall CW including deleting registry entries.  But then when 
I bring up Programs and Features I don't see it at all.  Maybe my 
problem is it has been removed from the registry?

I don't think it is an .ini file problem as it still opens all the files 
it had open before the problem started.

I would like to work with Emacs, but it seems so hard to learn.  I'll 
give it another go today.

-- 

Rick C

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#453502

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:10:12 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/24/2017 3:54 PM, John Speth wrote:
>>> Things aren't looking so good for Codewright.  I figured my issue was
>>> file corruption, so I finally dug up my old laptop disk.  I copied the
>>> CW directory over to the new laptop and it runs the same.  So I guess
>>> the problem is in the registry maybe?  Anyone know how to figure that
>>> out?
>>
>> I wonder if the registry is even used with CW 7.5. I know for certain
>> that my older 4.0e version does not touch the registry.
>
>Then what else could it be? 

If the problem is on 64-bit, it could be address space randomization -
particularly if you use any home-grown extensions.


You might try turning it off:

  HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory
    Management\MoveImages=dword:00000000.

and reboot.

But be aware that doing so lessens overall system security and could
cause kittens to be harmed.


>I found a number of web pages telling you 
>how to uninstall CW including deleting registry entries.  But then when 
>I bring up Programs and Features I don't see it at all.  Maybe my 
>problem is it has been removed from the registry?

The latest CW I had was 5.0d.  I haven't used it since switching to
Win7, but AFAI recall, by default the only use of the registry is for
file associations.  

I also recall there being an option to put INI settings into the
registry rather than a file - but if you didn't do that the CW key was
empty (or nearly so - some useless empty subkey).


>I don't think it is an .ini file problem as it still opens all the files 
>it had open before the problem started.
>
>I would like to work with Emacs, but it seems so hard to learn.  I'll 
>give it another go today.


SlickEdit is [intentionally] very like CW and even has tools to
convert CW projects.  https://www.slickedit.com/

UltraEdit also is quite similar to CW functionally, though its
keyboard bindings are different.   http://www.ultraedit.com/


If you are willing to go to Emacs - that is learn a new IDE:

Microsoft has released the Visual Studio editor as a stand-alone
product.  It's cross platform too: available for Windows, Mac or
Linux.  https://code.visualstudio.com/download
IMHO, it's much more usable than Eclipse - but take with salt because
I often use VisualStudio on Windows anyway.


YMMV,
George

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#453598

On 3/24/2017 10:50 PM, George Neuner wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:10:12 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/24/2017 3:54 PM, John Speth wrote:
>>>> Things aren't looking so good for Codewright.  I figured my issue was
>>>> file corruption, so I finally dug up my old laptop disk.  I copied the
>>>> CW directory over to the new laptop and it runs the same.  So I guess
>>>> the problem is in the registry maybe?  Anyone know how to figure that
>>>> out?
>>>
>>> I wonder if the registry is even used with CW 7.5. I know for certain
>>> that my older 4.0e version does not touch the registry.
>>
>> Then what else could it be?
>
> If the problem is on 64-bit, it could be address space randomization -
> particularly if you use any home-grown extensions.
>
>
> You might try turning it off:
>
>   HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory
>     Management\MoveImages=dword:00000000.
>
> and reboot.
>
> But be aware that doing so lessens overall system security and could
> cause kittens to be harmed.

I'm not big on lessening system security, I would *never* do anything to 
harm a kitten and I'm not sure what "turning it off" would mean exactly.


>> I found a number of web pages telling you
>> how to uninstall CW including deleting registry entries.  But then when
>> I bring up Programs and Features I don't see it at all.  Maybe my
>> problem is it has been removed from the registry?
>
> The latest CW I had was 5.0d.  I haven't used it since switching to
> Win7, but AFAI recall, by default the only use of the registry is for
> file associations.
>
> I also recall there being an option to put INI settings into the
> registry rather than a file - but if you didn't do that the CW key was
> empty (or nearly so - some useless empty subkey).
>
>
>> I don't think it is an .ini file problem as it still opens all the files
>> it had open before the problem started.
>>
>> I would like to work with Emacs, but it seems so hard to learn.  I'll
>> give it another go today.
>
>
> SlickEdit is [intentionally] very like CW and even has tools to
> convert CW projects.  https://www.slickedit.com/
>
> UltraEdit also is quite similar to CW functionally, though its
> keyboard bindings are different.   http://www.ultraedit.com/
>
>
> If you are willing to go to Emacs - that is learn a new IDE:
>
> Microsoft has released the Visual Studio editor as a stand-alone
> product.  It's cross platform too: available for Windows, Mac or
> Linux.  https://code.visualstudio.com/download
> IMHO, it's much more usable than Eclipse - but take with salt because
> I often use VisualStudio on Windows anyway.

I want to work with Linux, even if only on the Raspberry Pi.  So I 
really should get a new editor that runs on both platforms.  It's just 
such a painful thing to do though.  It's almost like having body parts 
replaced (and I did that last summer).

-- 

Rick C

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#453716

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:39:58 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/24/2017 10:50 PM, George Neuner wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:10:12 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> If the problem is on 64-bit, it could be address space randomization -
>> particularly if you use any home-grown extensions.
>>
>>
>> You might try turning it off:
>>
>>   HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory
>>     Management\MoveImages=dword:00000000.
>>
>> and reboot.
>>
>> But be aware that doing so lessens overall system security and could
>> cause kittens to be harmed.
>
>I'm not big on lessening system security, I would *never* do anything to 
>harm a kitten and I'm not sure what "turning it off" would mean exactly.

Address space layout randomization (ASLR) is a guard against some
types of memory based exploits - particularly certain types of buffer
overruns.  

When a process is executed under ASLR, the various segments of the
executable - code, data, stack, etc. - are placed at randomly selected
locations within the virtual address space of the process.
[i.e. 2 (or 3) GB for 32-bit, 2**52 bytes for 64-bit].

Note that ASLR affects only the *virtual* addresses used by program
code - physical addresses used by the CPU still are at the whim of VMM
page mapping.

If you disable ALSR globally, or an executable doesn't support it
(more below), then the OS falls back on contiguous placement of the
load segments. 
[On Windows, ASLR requires that all the program's load segments must
be placed dynamically. If any segment needs an absolute address, the
program can't use ASLR.  If you require ASLR globally (as a policy)
then such programs can't be run.]


ASLR makes it unlikely that any two runs of a program will use the
same addresses, so the locations of exploitable code (if any) with
respect to something a hacker can access - like an I/O buffer - will
be different every time the program executes.

On Windows, unless you enable ASLR globally, it affects only those
executables that were specifically compiled for it.  However, it is
the default for 64-bit compilers, and has been available as an option
for 32-bit compilers for a long time [since 2002, IIRC].  Most
commercial 32-bit software uses it.


The problem with ASLR is that a program may depend on assumptions such
as "all heap addresses will be lower than any stack addresses".  Under
ASLR, these assumptions may be violated: program segments may be
located anywhere in the address space.

Or a program may have a bug that is normally hidden, but if by chance
ASLR reorders its load segments in a particular way, the seemingly
innocuous bug turns into something fatal.

For 32-bit programs, ASLR also can impact sharing memory among
multiple processes because a particular needed address range may not
always be available.  This can affect 64-bit programs too, but the
vastly larger address space makes it much more likely that a
reasonably sized block can be placed wherever you need it.


On the whole, ASLR is a good thing - but it isn't without warts.

George

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#453847

On 25/03/17 20:39, rickman wrote:
> On 3/24/2017 10:50 PM, George Neuner wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:10:12 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/24/2017 3:54 PM, John Speth wrote:
>>>>> Things aren't looking so good for Codewright.  I figured my issue was
>>>>> file corruption, so I finally dug up my old laptop disk.  I copied the
>>>>> CW directory over to the new laptop and it runs the same.  So I guess
>>>>> the problem is in the registry maybe?  Anyone know how to figure that
>>>>> out?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if the registry is even used with CW 7.5. I know for certain
>>>> that my older 4.0e version does not touch the registry.
>>>
>>> Then what else could it be?
>>
>> If the problem is on 64-bit, it could be address space randomization -
>> particularly if you use any home-grown extensions.
>>
>>
>> You might try turning it off:
>>
>>   HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory
>>     Management\MoveImages=dword:00000000.
>>
>> and reboot.
>>
>> But be aware that doing so lessens overall system security and could
>> cause kittens to be harmed.
> 
> I'm not big on lessening system security, I would *never* do anything to
> harm a kitten and I'm not sure what "turning it off" would mean exactly.
> 
> 
>>> I found a number of web pages telling you
>>> how to uninstall CW including deleting registry entries.  But then when
>>> I bring up Programs and Features I don't see it at all.  Maybe my
>>> problem is it has been removed from the registry?
>>
>> The latest CW I had was 5.0d.  I haven't used it since switching to
>> Win7, but AFAI recall, by default the only use of the registry is for
>> file associations.
>>
>> I also recall there being an option to put INI settings into the
>> registry rather than a file - but if you didn't do that the CW key was
>> empty (or nearly so - some useless empty subkey).
>>
>>
>>> I don't think it is an .ini file problem as it still opens all the files
>>> it had open before the problem started.
>>>
>>> I would like to work with Emacs, but it seems so hard to learn.  I'll
>>> give it another go today.
>>
>>
>> SlickEdit is [intentionally] very like CW and even has tools to
>> convert CW projects.  https://www.slickedit.com/
>>
>> UltraEdit also is quite similar to CW functionally, though its
>> keyboard bindings are different.   http://www.ultraedit.com/
>>
>>
>> If you are willing to go to Emacs - that is learn a new IDE:
>>
>> Microsoft has released the Visual Studio editor as a stand-alone
>> product.  It's cross platform too: available for Windows, Mac or
>> Linux.  https://code.visualstudio.com/download
>> IMHO, it's much more usable than Eclipse - but take with salt because
>> I often use VisualStudio on Windows anyway.
> 
> I want to work with Linux, even if only on the Raspberry Pi.  So I
> really should get a new editor that runs on both platforms.  It's just
> such a painful thing to do though.  It's almost like having body parts
> replaced (and I did that last summer).
> 

If you want to work directly with a Pi, get a Pi 3 - the earlier ones
are a bit too slow for using as a desktop.  (They are great for running
specific programs, but it gets painful when it takes a few seconds to
open a new large program.)  I find it is easier to do most stuff from a
PC, and only occasionally edit things directly on a Pi.  But that is
easier if the desktop is Linux, since it gives you several convenient
ways to swap files and work together with the Pi.

So for an editor that works on the Pi, I usually use nano.  It is a
simple command-line editor - fine for making small fixes, and works well
over ssh even on very limited connections.  Unlike other popular
command-line editors such as vi and emacs, it works as you would expect
it to.

As for an editor for Linux and/or Windows, I am afraid you are in
trouble - there are vast numbers of them, with a broad range from light
and simple to large and complex.  They are all somewhat different from
Codewright - and it is always hard for a "power user" to switch editors.
 No matter which editor you pick, you will go through a period where you
feel there are missing features, bad layouts, counter-intuitive
interfaces, etc., simply because it is not the editor you are so
familiar with.

Personally, I use eclipse as my main editor these days, on Linux and
Windows.  It works well for what I need, I am used to it, and it is by
far the most common IDE delivered with microcontroller toolchains.  But
I would not run it on a Pi, and I fully understand how some people don't
like it.

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#453857

On 27.3.17 11:05, David Brown wrote:

> If you want to work directly with a Pi, get a Pi 3 - the earlier ones
> are a bit too slow for using as a desktop.  (They are great for running
> specific programs, but it gets painful when it takes a few seconds to
> open a new large program.)  I find it is easier to do most stuff from a
> PC, and only occasionally edit things directly on a Pi.  But that is
> easier if the desktop is Linux, since it gives you several convenient
> ways to swap files and work together with the Pi.
>
> So for an editor that works on the Pi, I usually use nano.  It is a
> simple command-line editor - fine for making small fixes, and works well
> over ssh even on very limited connections.  Unlike other popular
> command-line editors such as vi and emacs, it works as you would expect
> it to.
>
> As for an editor for Linux and/or Windows, I am afraid you are in
> trouble - there are vast numbers of them, with a broad range from light
> and simple to large and complex.  They are all somewhat different from
> Codewright - and it is always hard for a "power user" to switch editors.
>  No matter which editor you pick, you will go through a period where you
> feel there are missing features, bad layouts, counter-intuitive
> interfaces, etc., simply because it is not the editor you are so
> familiar with.
>
> Personally, I use eclipse as my main editor these days, on Linux and
> Windows.  It works well for what I need, I am used to it, and it is by
> far the most common IDE delivered with microcontroller toolchains.  But
> I would not run it on a Pi, and I fully understand how some people don't
> like it.


Another vote for Eclipse, but it is large to huge, depending on
how many features are included.

Hardcore Unix people swear by Emacs. It seems to include everything
but a kitchen sink.

-- 

-TV

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#453860

On 27/03/17 13:27, Tauno Voipio wrote:
> On 27.3.17 11:05, David Brown wrote:
> 
>> If you want to work directly with a Pi, get a Pi 3 - the earlier ones
>> are a bit too slow for using as a desktop.  (They are great for running
>> specific programs, but it gets painful when it takes a few seconds to
>> open a new large program.)  I find it is easier to do most stuff from a
>> PC, and only occasionally edit things directly on a Pi.  But that is
>> easier if the desktop is Linux, since it gives you several convenient
>> ways to swap files and work together with the Pi.
>>
>> So for an editor that works on the Pi, I usually use nano.  It is a
>> simple command-line editor - fine for making small fixes, and works well
>> over ssh even on very limited connections.  Unlike other popular
>> command-line editors such as vi and emacs, it works as you would expect
>> it to.
>>
>> As for an editor for Linux and/or Windows, I am afraid you are in
>> trouble - there are vast numbers of them, with a broad range from light
>> and simple to large and complex.  They are all somewhat different from
>> Codewright - and it is always hard for a "power user" to switch editors.
>>  No matter which editor you pick, you will go through a period where you
>> feel there are missing features, bad layouts, counter-intuitive
>> interfaces, etc., simply because it is not the editor you are so
>> familiar with.
>>
>> Personally, I use eclipse as my main editor these days, on Linux and
>> Windows.  It works well for what I need, I am used to it, and it is by
>> far the most common IDE delivered with microcontroller toolchains.  But
>> I would not run it on a Pi, and I fully understand how some people don't
>> like it.
> 
> 
> Another vote for Eclipse, but it is large to huge, depending on
> how many features are included.
> 
> Hardcore Unix people swear by Emacs. It seems to include everything
> but a kitchen sink.
> 

Hardcore unix people are divided into three camps here.  Those who live
entirely within emacs (including for email, and as their Usenet reader),
those who think emacs is the work of the devil and the only real editor
is vim, and those who believe there were perfectly usable gui desktops
for *nix by the late 1980's, and believe they can give you more
productive editors than a 80x40 terminal screen.

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#453889

On 27.3.17 15:01, David Brown wrote:
> On 27/03/17 13:27, Tauno Voipio wrote:
>> On 27.3.17 11:05, David Brown wrote:
>>
>>> If you want to work directly with a Pi, get a Pi 3 - the earlier ones
>>> are a bit too slow for using as a desktop.  (They are great for running
>>> specific programs, but it gets painful when it takes a few seconds to
>>> open a new large program.)  I find it is easier to do most stuff from a
>>> PC, and only occasionally edit things directly on a Pi.  But that is
>>> easier if the desktop is Linux, since it gives you several convenient
>>> ways to swap files and work together with the Pi.
>>>
>>> So for an editor that works on the Pi, I usually use nano.  It is a
>>> simple command-line editor - fine for making small fixes, and works well
>>> over ssh even on very limited connections.  Unlike other popular
>>> command-line editors such as vi and emacs, it works as you would expect
>>> it to.
>>>
>>> As for an editor for Linux and/or Windows, I am afraid you are in
>>> trouble - there are vast numbers of them, with a broad range from light
>>> and simple to large and complex.  They are all somewhat different from
>>> Codewright - and it is always hard for a "power user" to switch editors.
>>>  No matter which editor you pick, you will go through a period where you
>>> feel there are missing features, bad layouts, counter-intuitive
>>> interfaces, etc., simply because it is not the editor you are so
>>> familiar with.
>>>
>>> Personally, I use eclipse as my main editor these days, on Linux and
>>> Windows.  It works well for what I need, I am used to it, and it is by
>>> far the most common IDE delivered with microcontroller toolchains.  But
>>> I would not run it on a Pi, and I fully understand how some people don't
>>> like it.
>>
>>
>> Another vote for Eclipse, but it is large to huge, depending on
>> how many features are included.
>>
>> Hardcore Unix people swear by Emacs. It seems to include everything
>> but a kitchen sink.
>>
>
> Hardcore unix people are divided into three camps here.  Those who live
> entirely within emacs (including for email, and as their Usenet reader),
> those who think emacs is the work of the devil and the only real editor
> is vim, and those who believe there were perfectly usable gui desktops
> for *nix by the late 1980's, and believe they can give you more
> productive editors than a 80x40 terminal screen.


The last group (like me) are indeed heretics, but I do not miss
Flexowriter, ASR-33 or any glass equivalent.

-- 

-TV

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