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OT: Coming soon to America

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  OT: Coming soon to America Julian Barnes <jb9889@notformail.com> - 2017-02-13 23:38 +0000
    Re: OT: Coming soon to America Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 15:45 -0800
      Re: OT: Coming soon to America krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-13 21:00 -0500
        Re: OT: Coming soon to America Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 18:23 -0800
        Re: OT: Coming soon to America bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 18:30 -0800
          Re: OT: Coming soon to America Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 18:46 -0800
            Re: OT: Coming soon to America bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 20:22 -0800
          Re: OT: Coming soon to America Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-14 20:21 +0000
            Re: OT: Coming soon to America bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-14 20:43 -0800
    Re: OT: Coming soon to America bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 16:47 -0800
      Re: OT: Coming soon to America Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 17:42 -0800
        Re: OT: Coming soon to America bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 18:52 -0800

#447600 — OT: Coming soon to America

heres what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
peaceful native one...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois

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#447601

Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 00.40.22 UTC+1 skrev Julian Barnes:
> heres what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> peaceful native one...
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois

is it that different from the worst of US inner cities? 

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#447613

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 15:45:43 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

>Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 00.40.22 UTC+1 skrev Julian Barnes:
>> heres what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
>> peaceful native one...
>> 
>> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
>> violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois
>
>is it that different from the worst of US inner cities? 

So we need more, right?

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#447614

Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 03.01.05 UTC+1 skrev k...@notreal.com:
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 15:45:43 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
> 
> >Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 00.40.22 UTC+1 skrev Julian Barnes:
> >> heres what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> >> peaceful native one...
> >> 
> >> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> >> violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois
> >
> >is it that different from the worst of US inner cities? 
> 
> So we need more, right?

obviously not, it was a more a comment on the "coming soon to America"

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#447615

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 1:01:05 PM UTC+11, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 15:45:43 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
> 
> >Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 00.40.22 UTC+1 skrev Julian Barnes:
> >> here's what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> >> peaceful native one...
> >> 
> >> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> >> violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois
> >
> >is it that different from the worst of US inner cities? 
> 
> So we need more, right?

The right wing seems to think so. They certainly behave as if they want to inflame the rage of the less well-off.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447616

Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 03.30.48 UTC+1 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 1:01:05 PM UTC+11, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 15:45:43 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> > <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
> > 
> > >Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 00.40.22 UTC+1 skrev Julian Barnes:
> > >> here's what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> > >> peaceful native one...
> > >> 
> > >> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> > >> violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois
> > >
> > >is it that different from the worst of US inner cities? 
> > 
> > So we need more, right?
> 
> The right wing seems to think so. They certainly behave as if they want to inflame the rage of the less well-off.
> 

as opposed to the left wing that keeps telling them that it can't be anything with their actions, the only possible reason they are "less well-off" is they are oppressed by some "system" and keep repeating the myth that police is gunning down innocent people en mass
   
that can't possibly inflame rage ... /s

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#447618

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 1:46:53 PM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 03.30.48 UTC+1 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
> > On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 1:01:05 PM UTC+11, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > > On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 15:45:43 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> > > <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
> > > 
> > > >Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 00.40.22 UTC+1 skrev Julian Barnes:
> > > >> here's what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> > > >> peaceful native one...
> > > >> 
> > > >> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> > > >> violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois
> > > >
> > > >is it that different from the worst of US inner cities? 
> > > 
> > > So we need more, right?
> > 
> > The right wing seems to think so. They certainly behave as if they want to inflame the rage of the less well-off.
> 
> as opposed to the left wing that keeps telling them that it can't be anything with their actions, the only possible reason they are "less well-off" is they are oppressed by some "system" and keep repeating the myth that police is gunning down innocent people en mass

Doesn't sound like any left wing that I've ever run into. 

Police don't gun down innocent people en masse in countries civilised enough to have a left wing that tells people stuff. Even the most cynical left wing agitator has to be realistic enough to know that claiming otherwise is a waste of time. Right-wing agitators - Julian Barnes comes to mind - are less scrupulous, mainly because most of them are lunatics.
 
> that can't possibly inflame rage ... /s

If it happened, it might. US agitators get a lot of mileage out of individuals getting shot by a demented individual police officer for no obvious good reason. It doesn't happen often, but it doesn't have to happen all that often to upset a lot of people.


-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447658

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 18:30:43 -0800, bill.sloman wrote:

> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 1:01:05 PM UTC+11, k...@notreal.com
> wrote:

>> So we need more, right?

That entirely apposite remark was no doubt lost on Sloman. It will have 
gone right over his head.

> The right wing seems to think so. They certainly behave as if they want
> to inflame the rage of the less well-off.

I think you'll find that there are plenty of less well-off people on the 
Right wing. Poverty isn't the exclusive preserve of Lefties. The 
difference is poor Right-wingers are smart enough to realise that Leftie 
solutions to their problems simply don't stack up and would only make 
their plight a hell of a lot worse. The massive importation of cheap 
foreign labour into countries such as the UK in recent years has left an 
indelible scar on their already low standard of living through the 
phenomenon of wage compression. That's why UKIP have done so well in 
former Labour strongholds. Labour has taken the support of the poor 
working class for granted for decades but thankfully those fools have 
finally woken up to such an extent that we now - at long last - see the 
prospect of the end of the phoney Left/Right paradigm.

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#447711

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:23:49 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 18:30:43 -0800, bill.sloman wrote:
> 
> > On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 1:01:05 PM UTC+11, k...@notreal.com
> > wrote:
> 
> >> So we need more, right?
> 
> That entirely apposite remark was no doubt lost on Sloman. It will have 
> gone right over his head.

Krw couldn't make an appositive remark if his life depended on it. The US doesn't have to import Muslims to provide a disaffected minority - it imported a different minority as slaves few centuries ago, and has been treating them poorly ever since, to the extent that some of them converted to Islam to upset WASPs around 1930.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam
 
> > The right wing seems to think so. They certainly behave as if they want
> > to inflame the rage of the less well-off.
> 
> I think you'll find that there are plenty of less well-off people on the 
> Right wing. Poverty isn't the exclusive preserve of Lefties. The 
> difference is poor Right-wingers are smart enough to realise that Leftie 
> solutions to their problems simply don't stack up and would only make 
> their plight a hell of a lot worse.

That doesn't happen to be true. Leftie solutions, as applied in Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Germany to do work. Pseudo-leftie solutions, as applied in the US and the UK, are designed to look leftie, but are underfunded to the point where they can't work.

The right-wing poor who fall for that line are dumb suckers, at least as dumb and deluded as Cursitor Doom.

> The massive importation of cheap foreign labour into countries such as the UK > in recent years has left an  indelible scar on their already low standard of 
> living through the  phenomenon of wage compression. 

How much cheap foreign labour has actually been imported into the UK in recent years?

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/

says several million of them - about 16.7% of the work-force (up from 7.2% in 1993, when I moved away).

Mark Carney's claim in the Mail about wage compression is regarded sceptically by The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/are-our-foreign-workers-really-holding-down-uk-wages-10251804.html

> That's why UKIP have done so well in 
> former Labour strongholds.

UKIP lied, as you are doing (though you do seem to be too pig-ignorant to realise it). It's depressing that the former Labour strongholds are full of people who haven't been educated well enough to know when they are being lied to. The same kind of people in the US rust-belt states ended up voting for Trump. Being gullible doesn't help you choose good politicians, or politicians who can be relied on to deliver what they promise.

>  Labour has taken the support of the poor 
> working class for granted for decades but thankfully those fools have 
> finally woken up to such an extent that we now - at long last - see the 
> prospect of the end of the phoney Left/Right paradigm.

Sadly, the foolishness is all in believing what you might read in the Mail.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447602

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 10:40:22 AM UTC+11, Julian Barnes wrote:
> heres what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> peaceful native one...
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois

The UK Express newspaper is one of the less reliable right-wing propaganda sources, and provides just the kind of misleading information that makes Julian Barnes happy.

As Lasse Langwadt Christensen has already pointed out, this kind of behaviour has been showing up from time to time in the US for decades now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_riots

reports on a 1965 incident. There have been others since then.

The French don't mistreat their minority populations quite as enthusiastically as the US did, but Aulnay-Sous-Bois does house quite a few justifiably disaffected people.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447610

Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 01.48.02 UTC+1 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 10:40:22 AM UTC+11, Julian Barnes wrote:
> > heres what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> > peaceful native one...
> > 
> > http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> > violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois
> 
> The UK Express newspaper is one of the less reliable right-wing propaganda sources, and provides just the kind of misleading information that makes Julian Barnes happy.
> 
> As Lasse Langwadt Christensen has already pointed out, this kind of behaviour has been showing up from time to time in the US for decades now.
> 

doesn't matter who does it, rioting and setting cars on fire is retarded and
it seems to be the same type of people that blame everyone else for their failings, it can't possibly be anything they do themselve it must be 
"the system" 

you may call it right wing propaganda, but at least they report on it and 
doesn't try to sweep it under the rug or justify it because shoving violent thugs might not paint a picture they like

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_riots
> 
> reports on a 1965 incident. There have been others since then.

seriously, you pick something that happened +50 year ago?

> 
> The French don't mistreat their minority populations quite as enthusiastically as the US did, but Aulnay-Sous-Bois does house quite a few justifiably disaffected people.
> 

sitting on wellfare stewing in their own misery imagining how wonderful
everything would be if it was more the war torn hell holes their parents
came from, is surely going to lead them to success... 

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#447617

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 12:42:56 PM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> Den tirsdag den 14. februar 2017 kl. 01.48.02 UTC+1 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
> > On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 10:40:22 AM UTC+11, Julian Barnes wrote:
> > > heres what happens when you import a violent foreign culture into a 
> > > peaceful native one...
> > > 
> > > http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766635/Paris-riots-theo-immigration-
> > > violence-Aulnay-Sous-Bois
> > 
> > The UK Express newspaper is one of the less reliable right-wing propaganda sources, and provides just the kind of misleading information that makes Julian Barnes happy.
> > 
> > As Lasse Langwadt Christensen has already pointed out, this kind of behaviour has been showing up from time to time in the US for decades now.
> > 
> 
> doesn't matter who does it, rioting and setting cars on fire is retarded and
> it seems to be the same type of people that blame everyone else for their failings, it can't possibly be anything they do themselves it must be 
> "the system".

The system clearly isn't working for them. History suggests that making a loud  enough fuss is one way of getting the system to become more helpful. There are better ways of doing that, but poorly educated immigrants aren't well-placed to exploit them.

> you may call it right wing propaganda, but at least they report on it and 
> doesn't try to sweep it under the rug or justify it because shoving violent thugs might not paint a picture they like.

Julian Barnes talks about "importing a violent foreign culture" which rather neglects the fact that the French have a history of rioting that goes back to l 1789 and earlier.

The Express does like to concentrate on the violent behaviour of the thugs, while neglecting the social forces that provoke the behaviour.
 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_riots
> > 
> > reports on a 1965 incident. There have been others since then.
> 
> seriously, you pick something that happened +50 year ago?

Making the point that the US has had dissaffected minorities for quite a while now. Watts had another riot in 1992, and it's certainly not the most recent such event.

> > The French don't mistreat their minority populations quite as enthusiastically as the US did, but Aulnay-Sous-Bois does house quite a few justifiably disaffected people. 
> 
> sitting on welfare stewing in their own misery imagining how wonderful
> everything would be if it was more the war torn hell holes their parents
> came from, is surely going to lead them to success...

I don't think that anybody in France thinks that Syria is a more attractive place to live. The French problem seems to be that they don't spend enough on welfare, in the sense that the persistently unemployed aren't offered any kind of route - via training or retraining, for instance - that would get them into work. The Danes do try harder. They may not get more people into employment, but the disaffected residents of Denmark are less disaffected.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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