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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #446378 > unrolled thread

OT: Current standard for watch precision

Started byPimpom <pimpom@invalid.com>
First post2017-02-06 11:22 +0530
Last post2017-02-09 04:57 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 119 — 31 participants

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Contents

  OT: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-06 11:22 +0530
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 22:13 -0800
      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-06 17:15 +0530
        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 05:11 -0800
          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-06 19:30 +0530
            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 06:33 -0800
              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision nub12 <nub12@null.com> - 2017-02-07 07:57 +0800
          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-02-08 20:06 -0800
        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-02-06 20:16 +0200
          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-07 00:12 +0530
          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 11:58 -0700
        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-02-07 05:50 +0000
          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 02:43 -0500
            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-07 14:53 +0530
              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:32 -0500
            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 02:33 -0800
            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-02-07 17:56 +0200
              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:32 -0500
                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-07 14:52 -0800
                  Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-02-08 10:25 +0200
                    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 03:37 -0500
                      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 09:01 +0000
                        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:24 -0500
                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-08 09:08 -0800
                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:04 -0500
                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-09 08:12 +1100
                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:28 -0500
                                  Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 16:19 -0800
                                    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 00:36 -0500
                                      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 00:38 -0500
                                      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-09 18:39 +1100
                                        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 04:16 -0500
                                      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 09:46 +0000
                                        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 05:03 -0500
                                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-09 11:45 +0100
                                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:12 -0500
                                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-09 13:31 +0100
                                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 12:14 +0000
                                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:25 -0500
                                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-10 09:17 +0000
                                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-10 10:45 +0100
                                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 21:56 -0500
                                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-02-11 02:06 +0000
                                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-10 22:24 -0500
                                      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-02-11 01:54 +0000
                                        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-10 18:10 -0800
                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 23:34 +0000
                                  Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 15:49 -0800
                                    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 15:55 -0800
                                      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 16:08 -0800
                                        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> - 2017-02-09 03:24 +0000
                                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-08 20:34 -0800
                                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-02-08 23:26 -0600
                                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-08 23:28 -0800
                                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-02-09 00:48 -0500
                                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-09 06:52 -0800
                                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-09 20:37 -0500
                                    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-10 17:11 +0000
                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-02-09 23:13 +0200
                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:17 -0500
                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-08 19:29 -0800
                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-08 20:16 -0800
                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 17:13 +0000
                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-02-08 12:54 -0800
                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:35 -0500
                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 09:50 -0800
                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:14 -0500
                              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-08 11:35 -0800
                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-02-08 23:16 +0200
                                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-09 09:59 +0100
                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 09:41 -0800
                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:15 -0500
                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-02-11 01:46 +0000
                            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 22:12 -0500
                        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-09 15:25 -0800
                        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-10 10:38 +1100
                          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:42 -0800
                    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-08 11:01 +0100
                      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-02-11 04:06 +0000
                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 21:02 -0500
            Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-07 10:24 -0800
              Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-07 10:48 -0800
                Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-07 11:12 -0800
                  Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Mikko OH2HVJ <mikko.syrjalahti@nospam.fi> - 2017-02-08 09:33 +0200
                    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-08 06:31 -0800
        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 09:58 +0000
      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-02-08 20:00 -0800
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-02-05 23:01 -0800
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-02-06 03:21 -0800
      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-06 17:25 +0530
    Re: Current standard for watch precision "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-06 06:57 -0600
      Re: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-06 19:10 +0530
        Re: Current standard for watch precision "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-06 08:13 -0600
          Re: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-06 21:04 +0530
        Re: Current standard for watch precision Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-02-06 09:30 -0500
          Re: Current standard for watch precision George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-06 06:56 -0800
        Re: Current standard for watch precision Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-02-08 20:11 -0800
      Re: Current standard for watch precision Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 12:04 -0700
        Re: Current standard for watch precision Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 14:58 -0700
          Re: Current standard for watch precision Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 15:21 -0700
            Re: Current standard for watch precision Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 16:06 -0700
              Re: Current standard for watch precision Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 17:19 -0700
                Re: Current standard for watch precision Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 17:52 -0700
                  Re: Current standard for watch precision Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 17:55 -0700
        Re: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 21:44 -0500
      Re: Current standard for watch precision Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-02-08 20:04 -0800
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-02-06 09:06 -0500
      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com> - 2017-02-06 21:04 +0530
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision TTman <pcw1.cad@ntlworld.com> - 2017-02-06 14:31 +0000
      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-07 08:54 +1100
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-02-06 17:33 -0600
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 21:23 -0500
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision prairiesky <outgoing.server@mozilla.com> - 2017-02-06 23:00 -0800
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-07 18:29 +0000
    Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-02-08 19:59 -0800
      Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 00:48 -0500
        Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-02-08 23:54 -0600
          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-02-09 00:00 -0600
          Re: OT: Current standard for watch precision rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 04:57 -0500

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#446663

FromJeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Date2017-02-07 10:24 -0800
Message-ID<6o2k9cphegqckitsh1ldjeqgndg0c7ps55@4ax.com>
In reply to#446610
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 02:43:33 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:


>I also remember building a clock with a vacuum florescent display with a 
>trimmer.  I was adjusting it by beating a 60 Hz output against the power 
>line.  I could get it very, very close, but then ten or fifteen minutes 
>later it would drift again!  It took me awhile before I realized that 
>wasn't the clock, it was the power line.  lol

I built one of those clocks long ago and found that the higher
frequency noise motor noise and power supply trash on the power line
would mangle the 60 Hz clock waveform.  If the clock you built ran
fast no matter what you did to the actual clock frequency, that's your
problem.  A simple 60Hz low-pass solved the problem for me.

>Does the power line still drift like that?  Is there a reason why it 
>would in this day with the many sources of accurate timing available? 
>I'd expect the many generators could do a much better job of not running 
>up and down in frequency so much, or is this an inherent aspect of a 
>widely distributed network?

Some numbers and graphs from Europe:
<https://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains.html>
I couldn't find anything for Trumpland.

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#446667

FromJeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Date2017-02-07 10:48 -0800
Message-ID<ch5k9cd6ok9uh0cgemg85fbbvbdr1kkta2@4ax.com>
In reply to#446663
On Tue, 07 Feb 2017 10:24:26 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Some numbers and graphs from Europe:
><https://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains.html>
>I couldn't find anything for Trumpland.

Found a USA test in the above web page:
<http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/mains/>

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#446672

FromGeorge Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
Date2017-02-07 11:12 -0800
Message-ID<67b98130-de10-4dfd-b92d-3664f9f14079@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#446667
On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 1:48:32 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2017 10:24:26 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Some numbers and graphs from Europe:
> ><https://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/misc/mains.html>
> >I couldn't find anything for Trumpland.
> 
> Found a USA test in the above web page:
> <http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/mains/>

If you've got a modern x-tal controlled function generator
and a 'scope, it's pretty easy to watch the 60 Hz fluctuations.
(Trigger off the AC, set FG to 60.000000 Hz and watch the waveform 
crawl.)  

George H.  
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#446755

FromMikko OH2HVJ <mikko.syrjalahti@nospam.fi>
Date2017-02-08 09:33 +0200
Message-ID<m2r339dtms.fsf@nospam.fi>
In reply to#446672
George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> writes:

> If you've got a modern x-tal controlled function generator
> and a 'scope, it's pretty easy to watch the 60 Hz fluctuations.
> (Trigger off the AC, set FG to 60.000000 Hz and watch the waveform 
> crawl.)  

XY mode with line + n*line is also nice for following this.

--
mikko

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#446772

FromGeorge Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
Date2017-02-08 06:31 -0800
Message-ID<ea6c8e92-0468-482c-97b8-f3f02b408060@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#446755
On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 2:29:32 AM UTC-5, Mikko OH2HVJ wrote:
> George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> writes:
> 
> > If you've got a modern x-tal controlled function generator
> > and a 'scope, it's pretty easy to watch the 60 Hz fluctuations.
> > (Trigger off the AC, set FG to 60.000000 Hz and watch the waveform 
> > crawl.)  
> 
> XY mode with line + n*line is also nice for following this.
Huh, OK I'll have to give it a try some day.  

George H. 
> 
> --
> mikko

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#446630

FromMartin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
Date2017-02-07 09:58 +0000
Message-ID<o7c5o7$10pc$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#446391
On 06/02/2017 11:45, Pimpom wrote:
> On 2/6/2017 11:43 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
>> Pimpom wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> What would be considered a "good" wristwatch today in terms of
>>> timekeeping precision? Forget about build quality, price, shock-
>>> and waterproofing, etc.
>>>
>>> Half a century ago, a wristwatch with a-minute-a-month accuracy
>>> might have been labelled a chronometer. What standard would you
>>> apply now?
>>>
>>
>> ** The Quartz standard, of course.
>>
>> Goolge has heaps of info on this topic:
>>
>> http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/accuracy.shtml
>>
> Perhaps I should rephrase the question. I meant to ask what level of
> accuracy would be considered good for a consumer wristwatch nowadays.

Its possible to get stuff as bad as 15s/day untrimmed if they don't get 
the load capacitor network round the crystal right. Older Meade LX200 
telescopes suffer from this fault on their realtime clock :( They solved 
it by adding a GPS function so it resets the clock on newer ones!

> For example, I bought a Chinese analog-digital wristwatch from
> www.aliexpress.com last month and have been monitoring its accuracy. I
> do this by comparing it to a freshly synced computer clock. It's now
> exactly one month since I synced it to the computer clock. The analog
> section is ahead by 6 seconds and the digital one is behind by 35 secs.
> The errors may not be linearly cumulative but I think it's pretty good
> for a US$7 watch.

It depends on the cut of the crystal and whether or not it is being 
thermally stabilised by being worn on the wrist for some of the time.
(or worn outside in extreme conditions)

It isn't hard to get a couple of seconds a month or better with a simple 
temperature compensation scheme. I made a direct drive LCD chronometer 
which keeps time free running very nicely 2s/month after being trimmed 
against MSF Rugby for a couple of days. Not fully temperature 
compensated or it would be even better. Its actually used as a sidereal 
clock by flicking a switch after it has been calibrated.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

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#446959

FromRobert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com>
Date2017-02-08 20:00 -0800
Message-ID<QPRmA.867$YA7.459@fx03.iad>
In reply to#446379
Phil Allison wrote:
> Pimpom wrote:
>>
>>
>> What would be considered a "good" wristwatch today in terms of
>> timekeeping precision? Forget about build quality, price, shock-
>> and waterproofing, etc.
>>
>> Half a century ago, a wristwatch with a-minute-a-month accuracy
>> might have been labelled a chronometer. What standard would you
>> apply now?
>>
>
> ** The Quartz standard, of course.
>
> Goolge has heaps of info on this topic:
>
> http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/accuracy.shtml
>
>
>
> .....   Phil
   Well, maybe. They are all over the map.

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#446380

FromJeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Date2017-02-05 23:01 -0800
Message-ID<695g9c58jg4t8277ticn9dmbjghkrup43b@4ax.com>
In reply to#446378
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 11:22:26 +0530, Pimpom <pimpom@invalid.com> wrote:

>What would be considered a "good" wristwatch today in terms of 
>timekeeping precision? Forget about build quality, price, shock- 
>and waterproofing, etc.
>
>Half a century ago, a wristwatch with a-minute-a-month accuracy 
>might have been labelled a chronometer. What standard would you 
>apply now?

"Good" would mean a watch that's updated by a remote frequency
standard.  The common WWVB "atomic time" watch is one example:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_Wave_Ceptor>
  "...one second in three million years"
However, they get updated only once per day, so the short term (daily)
accuracy is only about 0.5 sec/day.

Beyond this point, we're talking fractions of a second accuracy, which
is much better than "good", and a good excuse not to lookup the PPM
numbers.  At that accuracy, you also get into the question of which
time scale (UTC, UT1, UT2, LMT, MST, ST, etc) you want to display.
Much depends on whether you are into astronomy, navigation,
communications, metrology, or racing:
<http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html>

Another accurate clock is the clock in a smartphone or cell phone. The
cell phone system time is synchronized to an atomic clock somewhere.
Unlike the aforementioned daily atomic time clock updates, the cell
phone clock gets its time updated every few minutes. However, watch
out for the difference between UTC and GPS time:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GPS-vs-UTC.jpg>
<http://www.leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm>

You could also use the GPS in your smartphone to display the time.
You'll need an app to do that because the phone uses the time provided
by the cellular system.

Since a smartphone is umm... smart, you could use one of the public
NTP (network time protocol) servers to display the time:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.ClockSync&hl=en>
However, because there is considerable latency between the NTP server
and your phone, there may be some errors if the delays vary or are not
sufficiently compensated.

Of course, you could carry a GPS around with you.  However, they are
rather battery hungry.
<https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Foretrex-401-Waterproof-Hiking/dp/B002EOSQII>

Then, there's the smart watch, some of which have a built in GPS
receiver.  However, be careful when buying as some of them (e.g.
Pebble) are unable to sync the system time to the GPS time.

If you happen to be a prepper, awaiting the zombie apocalypse where
civilization and all RF time services will collapse, you could carry
around your very own cesium atomic wristwatch:
<https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/846511652/the-worlds-first-true-atomic-wristwatch-the-cesium>
<http://www.ablogtowatch.com/bathys-hawaii-cesium-133-atomic-wrist-watch-accurate-second-1000-years/>
Early models were a bit cumbersome:
<http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/>

However, if all you want is something cool in the way of retro tech, I
suggest a wrist sundial:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=wrist+sundial&tbm=isch>

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#446389

Frommike <ham789@netzero.net>
Date2017-02-06 03:21 -0800
Message-ID<o79m5j$b6p$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446378
On 2/5/2017 9:52 PM, Pimpom wrote:
> What would be considered a "good" wristwatch today in terms of
> timekeeping precision? Forget about build quality, price, shock- and
> waterproofing, etc.
>
> Half a century ago, a wristwatch with a-minute-a-month accuracy might
> have been labelled a chronometer. What standard would you apply now?

Adopt a policy to always be on time.
Show up five minutes early for your appointment and you don't
have to worry about the accuracy of your watch.
Knowing that you're 5 milliseconds late is of no consequence to
your meeting.

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#446392

FromPimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com>
Date2017-02-06 17:25 +0530
Message-ID<o79o78$vgm$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#446389
On 2/6/2017 4:51 PM, mike wrote:
> On 2/5/2017 9:52 PM, Pimpom wrote:
>> What would be considered a "good" wristwatch today in terms of
>> timekeeping precision? Forget about build quality, price, shock- and
>> waterproofing, etc.
>>
>> Half a century ago, a wristwatch with a-minute-a-month accuracy might
>> have been labelled a chronometer. What standard would you apply now?
>
> Adopt a policy to always be on time.
> Show up five minutes early for your appointment and you don't
> have to worry about the accuracy of your watch.
> Knowing that you're 5 milliseconds late is of no consequence to
> your meeting.
>
How would I know how early/late I am if my watch is not accurate? 
:-) Anyway, I'm seldom in a position where I have to conform to 
someone else's timepiece.

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#446397 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

From"Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com>
Date2017-02-06 06:57 -0600
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<o79roj$2c0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446378
FWIW, the most accurate clock I have, is in my car.  I don't know quite how 
they managed it, but it runs on battery power (admittedly, it has quite a 
reserve to draw from!), tolerates wide temperature swings (at least -20 to 
60C that I know of), and regularly goes a full year without skipping a 
minute.  (It's within a minute of accuracy, throughout the year, too -- no 
noticeable seasonal error.)  The only reason I have to set it is because of 
stupid Daylight Savings...

If it's a TCXO, that wouldn't be too bad for a watch; an OCXO is also 
plausible given the available current, but obviously that wouldn't work so 
well for a watch*.

*While worn, the watch temperature is pretty consistent (10-30C?).  But if 
it's taken off regularly, that goes out the window.

Anyway, I'd be more than happy with a minute per year.  That seems nice and 
solid.  I have no reason to believe my car does WWVB or GPSDO, so it's 
certainly achievable without that assistance.

But personally?  As with most people, I just reach for my phone when I need 
to know the time...

Tim

-- 
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com


"Pimpom" <pimpom@invalid.com> wrote in message 
news:o792ut$ooh$1@news.albasani.net...
> What would be considered a "good" wristwatch today in terms of timekeeping 
> precision? Forget about build quality, price, shock- and waterproofing, 
> etc.
>
> Half a century ago, a wristwatch with a-minute-a-month accuracy might have 
> been labelled a chronometer. What standard would you apply now? 

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#446401 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromPimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com>
Date2017-02-06 19:10 +0530
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<o79uch$50n$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#446397
On 2/6/2017 6:27 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
> FWIW, the most accurate clock I have, is in my car.  I don't know quite how
> they managed it, but it runs on battery power (admittedly, it has quite a
> reserve to draw from!), tolerates wide temperature swings (at least -20 to
> 60C that I know of), and regularly goes a full year without skipping a
> minute.  (It's within a minute of accuracy, throughout the year, too -- no
> noticeable seasonal error.)

My car's clock is in the same class. I set it when I bought the 
car in Dec '11 and reset it a couple of months ago when it had 
fallen behind by about 3 minutes.

The only reason I have to set it is because of
> stupid Daylight Savings...
>
We don't use DST here and I could never think of any significant 
benefit to the practice. Thinking that I must be missing 
something, I posted a question about it in a newsgroup (might 
have been s.e.d.) several years ago. I was surprised to see that 
most people think it's a meaningless practice.

........>
> But personally?  As with most people, I just reach for my phone when I need
> to know the time...
>
Personally, I use a mobile phone only when I go out, which is 
quite seldom. I must be in a miniscule minority in a 
technologically enlightened society. Even when I have my phone on 
my desk, I tend to look at my wristwatch or at the wall clock to 
tell the time.

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#446408 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

From"Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com>
Date2017-02-06 08:13 -0600
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<o7a06i$ic0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446401
"Pimpom" <Pimpom@invalid.com> wrote in message 
news:o79uch$50n$1@news.albasani.net...
> Personally, I use a mobile phone only when I go out, which is quite 
> seldom. I must be in a miniscule minority in a technologically enlightened 
> society. Even when I have my phone on my desk, I tend to look at my 
> wristwatch or at the wall clock to tell the time.

Yeah, but you live in a technologically backwatered society, so it's okay. 
:^)

(NB: I don't know how the average tech level actually compares, there 
(northern edge of India, isn't it?).  If nothing else, it sounds like you 
have all the cheap Chinese crap available that we do. :-p )

Tim

-- 
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com 

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#446420 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromPimpom <Pimpom@invalid.com>
Date2017-02-06 21:04 +0530
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<o7a51n$t46$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#446408
On 2/6/2017 7:43 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
> "Pimpom" <Pimpom@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:o79uch$50n$1@news.albasani.net...
>> Personally, I use a mobile phone only when I go out, which is quite
>> seldom. I must be in a miniscule minority in a technologically enlightened
>> society. Even when I have my phone on my desk, I tend to look at my
>> wristwatch or at the wall clock to tell the time.
>
> Yeah, but you live in a technologically backwatered society, so it's okay.
> :^)

Not so "backwatered" as far as consumer products are concerned. 
Practically every home in towns has a computer or two, microwave 
and so on. Except for very young and very old people, 99.9% have 
cellphones. Heck, my live-in maid from a small village has asked 
me to order a smartphone for her. She's the only one in 15 years 
who didn't already have one. I give them the password to my WiFi 
and they enjoy Facebook and Whatsapp in their free time.
>
> (NB: I don't know how the average tech level actually compares, there
> (northern edge of India, isn't it?).

Actually the eastern edge, sandwiched between Myanmar (Burma) and 
Bangladesh. My people have little in common with mainstream 
Indians. Looks, religion, language, culture, taste, cuisine, 
mentality..... are all different. My own knowledge of the 
majority language Hindi is limited to about a couple of dozen words.

> If nothing else, it sounds like you
> have all the cheap Chinese crap available that we do. :-p )
>
That, we do. But some of them are quite OK and cost a fraction of 
what the major brands are asking for an equivalent product.

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#446410 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromSpehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
Date2017-02-06 09:30 -0500
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<su1h9c91njslc392dum9lb8ther527d3c5@4ax.com>
In reply to#446401
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 19:10:31 +0530, the renowned Pimpom
<Pimpom@invalid.com> wrote:

>On 2/6/2017 6:27 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
>> FWIW, the most accurate clock I have, is in my car.  I don't know quite how
>> they managed it, but it runs on battery power (admittedly, it has quite a
>> reserve to draw from!), tolerates wide temperature swings (at least -20 to
>> 60C that I know of), and regularly goes a full year without skipping a
>> minute.  (It's within a minute of accuracy, throughout the year, too -- no
>> noticeable seasonal error.)
>
>My car's clock is in the same class. I set it when I bought the 
>car in Dec '11 and reset it a couple of months ago when it had 
>fallen behind by about 3 minutes.
>

Here is a wristwatch for you: 

http://watchesbysjx.com/2013/05/11

Claimed accuracy 1.5 seconds per 1000 years. My Casio does even better
but it depends on an outside atomic clock and there's no guarantee
that will physically be there next year let alone 1000 years from now.

--sp 


-- 
Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany

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#446417 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromGeorge Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
Date2017-02-06 06:56 -0800
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<4a996cce-ada1-4ad5-b33b-402bbd3e4ca7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#446410
On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 9:30:28 AM UTC-5, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 19:10:31 +0530, the renowned Pimpom
> <Pimpom@invalid.com> wrote:
> 
> >On 2/6/2017 6:27 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
> >> FWIW, the most accurate clock I have, is in my car.  I don't know quite how
> >> they managed it, but it runs on battery power (admittedly, it has quite a
> >> reserve to draw from!), tolerates wide temperature swings (at least -20 to
> >> 60C that I know of), and regularly goes a full year without skipping a
> >> minute.  (It's within a minute of accuracy, throughout the year, too -- no
> >> noticeable seasonal error.)
> >
> >My car's clock is in the same class. I set it when I bought the 
> >car in Dec '11 and reset it a couple of months ago when it had 
> >fallen behind by about 3 minutes.
> >
> 
> Here is a wristwatch for you: 
> 
> http://watchesbysjx.com/2013/05/11
> 
> Claimed accuracy 1.5 seconds per 1000 years. My Casio does even better
> but it depends on an outside atomic clock and there's no guarantee
> that will physically be there next year let alone 1000 years from now.
> 
> --sp 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards, 
> Spehro Pefhany

Was it really the first? 
http://leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/

(As long as style isn't important :^) 

George H. 

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#446962 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromRobert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com>
Date2017-02-08 20:11 -0800
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<sZRmA.1281$X9.1056@fx28.iad>
In reply to#446401
Pimpom wrote:
> On 2/6/2017 6:27 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
>> FWIW, the most accurate clock I have, is in my car. I don't know quite
>> how
>> they managed it, but it runs on battery power (admittedly, it has quite a
>> reserve to draw from!), tolerates wide temperature swings (at least
>> -20 to
>> 60C that I know of), and regularly goes a full year without skipping a
>> minute. (It's within a minute of accuracy, throughout the year, too -- no
>> noticeable seasonal error.)
>
> My car's clock is in the same class. I set it when I bought the car in
> Dec '11 and reset it a couple of months ago when it had fallen behind by
> about 3 minutes.
>
> The only reason I have to set it is because of
>> stupid Daylight Savings...
>>
> We don't use DST here and I could never think of any significant benefit
> to the practice. Thinking that I must be missing something, I posted a
> question about it in a newsgroup (might have been s.e.d.) several years
> ago. I was surprised to see that most people think it's a meaningless
> practice.
* When that was instigated, it was (politically) meaningless.
   The idea was to have more daylight hours during an 8-hour work time, 
"thus" more production of guns from butter...

>
> ........>
>> But personally? As with most people, I just reach for my phone when I
>> need
>> to know the time...
>>
> Personally, I use a mobile phone only when I go out, which is quite
> seldom. I must be in a miniscule minority in a technologically
> enlightened society. Even when I have my phone on my desk, I tend to
> look at my wristwatch or at the wall clock to tell the time.
>

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#446444 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromDon Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Date2017-02-06 12:04 -0700
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<o7ah9b$kgm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446397
On 2/6/2017 5:57 AM, Tim Williams wrote:
> FWIW, the most accurate clock I have, is in my car.  I don't know quite how
> they managed it, but it runs on battery power (admittedly, it has quite a
> reserve to draw from!), tolerates wide temperature swings (at least -20 to 60C
> that I know of), and regularly goes a full year without skipping a minute.
> (It's within a minute of accuracy, throughout the year, too -- no noticeable
> seasonal error.)  The only reason I have to set it is because of stupid
> Daylight Savings...

This was always the joke with stated accuracies of clocks -- if you're going
to have to reset it every ~6 months, just how far out of sync *can* it get?

Here, we don't have that folly so we don't have to keep tweeking clocks.
OTOH, we're always asking ourselves if <somebody>, <somewhere> is an hour
ahead of us, or two... (etc).

So, its almost WORST than having to be consciously aware of the time changes!

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#446476 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-02-06 14:58 -0700
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<rash9cpnqic9dsqvd4rnt7ok9rsa2mmak3@4ax.com>
In reply to#446444
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:04:52 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2/6/2017 5:57 AM, Tim Williams wrote:
>> FWIW, the most accurate clock I have, is in my car.  I don't know quite how
>> they managed it, but it runs on battery power (admittedly, it has quite a
>> reserve to draw from!), tolerates wide temperature swings (at least -20 to 60C
>> that I know of), and regularly goes a full year without skipping a minute.
>> (It's within a minute of accuracy, throughout the year, too -- no noticeable
>> seasonal error.)  The only reason I have to set it is because of stupid
>> Daylight Savings...
>
>This was always the joke with stated accuracies of clocks -- if you're going
>to have to reset it every ~6 months, just how far out of sync *can* it get?
>
>Here, we don't have that folly so we don't have to keep tweeking clocks.
>OTOH, we're always asking ourselves if <somebody>, <somewhere> is an hour
>ahead of us, or two... (etc).
>
>So, its almost WORST than having to be consciously aware of the time changes!

Some of us don't have to endure daylight savings time ;-)
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

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#446484 — Re: Current standard for watch precision

FromDon Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Date2017-02-06 15:21 -0700
SubjectRe: Current standard for watch precision
Message-ID<o7aspi$1mc$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446476
On 2/6/2017 2:58 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> Here, we don't have that folly so we don't have to keep tweeking clocks.
>> OTOH, we're always asking ourselves if <somebody>, <somewhere> is an hour
>> ahead of us, or two... (etc).
>>
>> So, its almost WORST than having to be consciously aware of the time changes!
>
> Some of us don't have to endure daylight savings time ;-)

I don't -- but, I have to deal with folks elsewhere in the country who *do*.
So, have to consider:  it's 11A here.  Is it just BEFORE lunch, there?  Or,
just AFTER?  Is DST in effect (for THEM)?  Or not?

[Even worse to discover it's just a bit before *6*PM when you think it's
actually just before *5*!]

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