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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #469817 > unrolled thread

OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue

Started byJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
First post2017-07-20 19:07 -0700
Last post2017-07-21 17:20 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 153 — 23 participants

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Contents

  OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-20 19:07 -0700
    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-21 02:43 -0700
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue jack4747@gmail.com - 2017-07-21 02:59 -0700
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-21 09:39 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> - 2017-07-21 09:56 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 10:08 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-24 03:56 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-21 11:52 -0700
    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-21 03:37 -0700
    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-07-21 08:30 -0700
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 08:38 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-21 09:02 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> - 2017-07-21 09:10 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-07-21 09:13 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 13:47 -0400
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-21 22:59 -0400
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-07-21 09:11 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 09:26 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-21 10:46 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-21 23:04 -0400
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-21 09:44 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 10:24 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 10:29 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 13:48 -0400
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-21 13:16 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 13:46 -0700
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 15:03 -0700
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 15:31 -0700
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 16:14 -0700
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 19:11 -0700
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-07-21 20:51 -0700
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-21 23:08 -0400
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-24 09:51 -0700
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-24 21:35 -0400
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-24 04:01 -0700
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-21 11:48 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 11:58 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-21 23:57 +0100
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 19:02 -0400
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-22 00:30 +0100
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 01:04 -0400
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-22 09:39 +0100
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 09:09 -0400
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-22 08:42 -0700
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-22 17:10 +0100
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 12:11 -0400
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-22 12:15 -0700
                            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-22 20:10 -0400
                              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-07-23 22:33 +0200
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-22 20:09 -0400
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 19:32 -0700
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 01:05 -0400
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-22 09:45 +0100
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 09:11 -0400
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-22 17:20 +0100
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-22 09:41 +0100
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 09:13 -0400
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-24 04:06 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 16:07 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 15:13 -0400
    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-21 11:11 -0500
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 09:29 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-21 12:08 -0500
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-21 10:57 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-21 23:13 -0400
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 10:26 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 10:32 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 10:56 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 11:09 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 11:02 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 11:13 -0700
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-21 11:40 -0700
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 12:54 -0700
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-21 15:14 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-21 23:20 -0400
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-21 23:16 -0400
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-22 13:26 -0700
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-22 20:20 -0400
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-07-22 11:31 -0400
    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 09:20 -0700
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 13:53 -0400
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 11:13 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 11:51 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 12:09 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-21 14:05 -0500
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 12:18 -0700
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-21 15:20 -0500
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 14:14 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 15:33 -0400
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 12:45 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 15:21 -0400
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 12:37 -0700
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-07-21 14:09 -0700
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-21 14:19 -0700
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-07-21 14:38 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 15:12 -0700
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-24 04:13 -0700
        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-24 10:01 -0700
          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-25 03:33 -0700
            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 07:29 -0700
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-25 08:38 -0700
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 11:06 -0700
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-25 11:28 -0700
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 12:01 -0700
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-25 12:30 -0700
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 12:37 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-25 12:54 -0700
                            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 13:26 -0700
                              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-25 13:34 -0700
                                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 13:50 -0700
                                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-25 14:03 -0700
                                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 14:19 -0700
                                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-25 14:50 -0700
                                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-25 15:12 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-26 04:20 -0700
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-25 21:04 -0400
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-07-26 09:25 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-07-26 13:45 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-26 21:43 -0400
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-25 19:06 -0400
              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-26 04:09 -0700
                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-07-26 16:44 -0700
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-07-27 10:24 +0800
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-26 19:36 -0700
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-07-28 13:09 +0800
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-07-27 22:42 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-28 06:54 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-07-28 21:03 +0000
                            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-28 14:16 -0700
                              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-31 05:29 -0700
                            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-28 17:59 -0400
                              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-28 22:32 -0400
                            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-31 05:27 -0700
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-28 22:30 -0400
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-07-29 20:02 +0800
                            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-29 10:03 -0400
                              Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-07-29 22:07 +0800
                                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue krw@notreal.com - 2017-07-29 10:55 -0400
                                Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-07-29 08:05 -0700
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> - 2017-07-26 19:37 -0700
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-27 05:51 -0700
                        Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> - 2017-07-27 06:09 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-07-28 06:40 -0700
                          Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-07-28 21:25 +0000
                            Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-28 17:50 -0700
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-07-27 21:35 -0700
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-07-28 12:58 +0800
                      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-08-01 02:19 -0700
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-07-28 20:21 +0000
                  Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-26 22:39 -0400
                    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-07-27 22:07 -0700
    Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-07-21 13:12 -0500
      Re: OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-07-21 17:20 -0400

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#469878

FromMark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com>
Date2017-07-21 11:11 -0500
Message-ID<mstorkamp-E4E0E3.11113121072017@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to#469817
In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
 Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
 wrote:

> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
> 
> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
> 		
>                                         ...Jim Thompson

I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they 
merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for 
machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I 
thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see 
things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school 
path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?

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#469885

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-07-21 09:29 -0700
Message-ID<rqa4nc5o63vcj43njuvkkvjpq478jgpdle@4ax.com>
In reply to#469878
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
<mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>> 
>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>> 		
>>                                         ...Jim Thompson
>
>I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they 
>merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for 
>machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I 
>thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see 
>things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school 
>path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?

Algebra isn't necessary for most trades, but 'ordinary' math is.  My
father-in-law ran a very high tech machine shop... his constant
complaint was that he couldn't find anyone who had a clue about
reading a blueprint.
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

             I'm looking for work... see my website.

Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.

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#469893

FromMark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com>
Date2017-07-21 12:08 -0500
Message-ID<mstorkamp-E569FA.12083321072017@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to#469885
In article <rqa4nc5o63vcj43njuvkkvjpq478jgpdle@4ax.com>,
 Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
 wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
> > Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
> >> 
> >> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-dr
> >> op-
> >> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
> >> 		
> >>                                         ...Jim Thompson
> >
> >I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they 
> >merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for 
> >machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I 
> >thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see 
> >things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school 
> >path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
> 
> Algebra isn't necessary for most trades, but 'ordinary' math is.  My
> father-in-law ran a very high tech machine shop... his constant
> complaint was that he couldn't find anyone who had a clue about
> reading a blueprint.
> 		
>                                         ...Jim Thompson

And that's a whole other area where I think we've gone in the wrong 
direction. When the bean counters decided we didn't need drafters 
anymore because engineers could draw their own blueprints. Engineers 
will typically list a class of fit instead of dimensions, or specify to 
make a hole so a press fit fastener will go in. The drafter would then 
look that information up and make a properly dimensioned print for the 
machinist to use. That middle step is missing now and too many 
improperly dimensioned prints, or impossible to manufacture features, or 
poorly toleranced drawings are being produced.

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#469922

From"dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org>
Date2017-07-21 10:57 -0700
Message-ID<dcd2ea28-2ce1-4322-9396-7d738527326d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#469893
On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 1:08:37 PM UTC-4, Mark Storkamp wrote:

> And that's a whole other area where I think we've gone in the wrong 
> direction. When the bean counters decided we didn't need drafters 
> anymore because engineers could draw their own blueprints. Engineers 
> will typically list a class of fit instead of dimensions, or specify to 
> make a hole so a press fit fastener will go in. The drafter would then 
> look that information up and make a properly dimensioned print for the 
> machinist to use. That middle step is missing now and too many 
> improperly dimensioned prints, or impossible to manufacture features, or 
> poorly toleranced drawings are being produced.

Everywhere I worked , drawings were signed off by a checker.  The checker made sure the print was properly dimensioned and able to be made.

                                              Dan

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#470033

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-07-21 23:13 -0400
Message-ID<ijg5nclbcc5posomfe6mjfjfdoni7378r0@4ax.com>
In reply to#469922
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:57:47 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
<dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

>On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 1:08:37 PM UTC-4, Mark Storkamp wrote:
>
>> And that's a whole other area where I think we've gone in the wrong 
>> direction. When the bean counters decided we didn't need drafters 
>> anymore because engineers could draw their own blueprints. Engineers 
>> will typically list a class of fit instead of dimensions, or specify to 
>> make a hole so a press fit fastener will go in. The drafter would then 
>> look that information up and make a properly dimensioned print for the 
>> machinist to use. That middle step is missing now and too many 
>> improperly dimensioned prints, or impossible to manufacture features, or 
>> poorly toleranced drawings are being produced.
>
>Everywhere I worked , drawings were signed off by a checker.  The checker made sure the print was properly dimensioned and able to be made.

I would think that much of that could be done by the CAD system, these
days.  Sort of a mechanical version of LVS or DRC.

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#469904

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2017-07-21 10:26 -0700
Message-ID<h6e4nc19mius8144ceranepgqiileqhfo6@4ax.com>
In reply to#469878
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
<mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>> 
>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>> 		
>>                                         ...Jim Thompson
>
>I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they 
>merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for 
>machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I 
>thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see 
>things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school 
>path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?

Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
adjuncts.




-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469910

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-07-21 10:32 -0700
Message-ID<fge4nc9vdf0nr36v4e1hfklficnf67u19b@4ax.com>
In reply to#469904
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
><mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>> 
>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>> 		
>>>                                         ...Jim Thompson
>>
>>I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they 
>>merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for 
>>machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I 
>>thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see 
>>things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school 
>>path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>
>Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>adjuncts.

I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

             I'm looking for work... see my website.

Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469920

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2017-07-21 10:56 -0700
Message-ID<u1g4nclj40lhb5emonnnqt53856le3h8hf@4ax.com>
In reply to#469910
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:32:07 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>><mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>> 
>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>> 		
>>>>                                         ...Jim Thompson
>>>
>>>I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they 
>>>merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for 
>>>machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I 
>>>thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see 
>>>things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school 
>>>path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>
>>Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>adjuncts.
>
>I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>		
>                                        ...Jim Thompson

Good rant:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-21/may-bursting-student-loan-bubble-commence



-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469926

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-07-21 11:09 -0700
Message-ID<8lg4nc97ue5f6lhval7e19tjf2jsd3ibej@4ax.com>
In reply to#469920
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:56:31 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:32:07 -0700, Jim Thompson
><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
>><jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:

[snip]

>>>
>>>Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>>student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>>teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>>adjuncts.
>>
>>I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>>teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>>cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>>		
>>                                        ...Jim Thompson
>
>Good rant:
>
>http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-21/may-bursting-student-loan-bubble-commence

Great!  I particularly enjoyed the posters at the very beginning of
the article ;-)
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

             I'm looking for work... see my website.

Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469923

FromJoerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Date2017-07-21 11:02 -0700
Message-ID<etetslF26otU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#469910
On 2017-07-21 10:32, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>>
>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>> 		
>>>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>>
>>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they
>>> merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for
>>> machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I
>>> thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see
>>> things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school
>>> path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>

Then they are faced with the CNC and the lack of algebra knowledge 
causes them major trouble. Simple math won't cut it anymore if one wants 
to reach higher job levels in many such fields.


>> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>> adjuncts.
>
> I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
> teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
> cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>

I inquired about teaching analog circuit design at a local college. Pay 
was not so important because at some point one has to give back. I was 
told that I need the "proper credentials" first. Really? So I went into 
other "giving back" fields without such non-sensical stone-walling and 
fiefdom behavior. Where I don't even get gas money and that's ok. Best 
of all, no union.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469929

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-07-21 11:13 -0700
Message-ID<0vg4nc9fu3vk2qkan8nuustnsopvps91kr@4ax.com>
In reply to#469923
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:02:07 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 2017-07-21 10:32, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>>> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>>> 		
>>>>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>>>
>>>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they
>>>> merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for
>>>> machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I
>>>> thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see
>>>> things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school
>>>> path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>>
>
>Then they are faced with the CNC and the lack of algebra knowledge 
>causes them major trouble. Simple math won't cut it anymore if one wants 
>to reach higher job levels in many such fields.
>
>
>>> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>> adjuncts.
>>
>> I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>> teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>> cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>>
>
>I inquired about teaching analog circuit design at a local college. Pay 
>was not so important because at some point one has to give back. I was 
>told that I need the "proper credentials" first. Really? So I went into 
>other "giving back" fields without such non-sensical stone-walling and 
>fiefdom behavior. Where I don't even get gas money and that's ok. Best 
>of all, no union.

Maybe things have changed.  In the early '70's I made such an offer to
Scottsdale Community College... I would teach 'associates' level
classes for free.  My offer was declined... I didn't have a 'teachers
certificate'.
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

             I'm looking for work... see my website.

Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469935

From"dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org>
Date2017-07-21 11:40 -0700
Message-ID<e6212b0f-a2d2-466a-bf4c-43c092126711@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#469929
On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 2:13:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:


> 
> Maybe things have changed.  In the early '70's I made such an offer to
> Scottsdale Community College... I would teach 'associates' level
> classes for free.  My offer was declined... I didn't have a 'teachers
> certificate'.
> 		
>                                         ...Jim Thompson

I taught a college class which was entitled  " Intro to Computer Architecture "
 but it was really introduction to elementary logic. ( hey  the college provided a syllabus  ) I was surprised that the college wanted my grade transcript.  Most colleges did not have a computer when I was in college.  

My boss at that time put the pressure on me to teach the course.  The pay was poor as were most of the students. And the next year I declined.

                                          Dan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469957

FromJoerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Date2017-07-21 12:54 -0700
Message-ID<etf4enF3kucU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#469929
On 2017-07-21 11:13, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:02:07 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-07-21 10:32, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
>>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>>>> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>>>> 		
>>>>>>                                           ...Jim Thompson
>>>>>
>>>>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they
>>>>> merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for
>>>>> machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I
>>>>> thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see
>>>>> things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school
>>>>> path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>>>
>>
>> Then they are faced with the CNC and the lack of algebra knowledge
>> causes them major trouble. Simple math won't cut it anymore if one wants
>> to reach higher job levels in many such fields.
>>
>>
>>>> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>>> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>>> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>>> adjuncts.
>>>
>>> I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>>> teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>>> cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>>>
>>
>> I inquired about teaching analog circuit design at a local college. Pay
>> was not so important because at some point one has to give back. I was
>> told that I need the "proper credentials" first. Really? So I went into
>> other "giving back" fields without such non-sensical stone-walling and
>> fiefdom behavior. Where I don't even get gas money and that's ok. Best
>> of all, no union.
>
> Maybe things have changed.  In the early '70's I made such an offer to
> Scottsdale Community College... I would teach 'associates' level
> classes for free.  My offer was declined... I didn't have a 'teachers
> certificate'.
> 	

Exactly like my experience above. So unfortunately things have not 
changed. That is also part of the problem with our public school system.

Some of the best teachers I had in highschool were "shortage 
pinch-hitters" hauled in from industry. No "teaching credentials". One 
of the best was a chemist from Henkel, a big chem corp that now also 
owns Loctite. His normal job was developing formulae for laundry 
detergent. Thick Czech accent and his first intro was a question to us 
"Wherr iss fiah ixtingisha?". That promised to be fun and it was. I 
never had any interest in chemistry but this guy woke me up, and a lot 
of others as well.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#469986

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-07-21 15:14 -0700
Message-ID<vpu4nct4jejmlsl7p4jsge78uio69g595e@4ax.com>
In reply to#469957
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 12:54:11 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 2017-07-21 11:13, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:02:07 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-07-21 10:32, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
>>>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>>>>> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>>>>> 		
>>>>>>>                                           ...Jim Thompson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they
>>>>>> merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for
>>>>>> machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I
>>>>>> thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see
>>>>>> things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school
>>>>>> path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Then they are faced with the CNC and the lack of algebra knowledge
>>> causes them major trouble. Simple math won't cut it anymore if one wants
>>> to reach higher job levels in many such fields.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>>>> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>>>> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>>>> adjuncts.
>>>>
>>>> I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>>>> teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>>>> cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I inquired about teaching analog circuit design at a local college. Pay
>>> was not so important because at some point one has to give back. I was
>>> told that I need the "proper credentials" first. Really? So I went into
>>> other "giving back" fields without such non-sensical stone-walling and
>>> fiefdom behavior. Where I don't even get gas money and that's ok. Best
>>> of all, no union.
>>
>> Maybe things have changed.  In the early '70's I made such an offer to
>> Scottsdale Community College... I would teach 'associates' level
>> classes for free.  My offer was declined... I didn't have a 'teachers
>> certificate'.
>> 	
>
>Exactly like my experience above. So unfortunately things have not 
>changed. That is also part of the problem with our public school system.
>
>Some of the best teachers I had in highschool were "shortage 
>pinch-hitters" hauled in from industry. No "teaching credentials". One 
>of the best was a chemist from Henkel, a big chem corp that now also 
>owns Loctite. His normal job was developing formulae for laundry 
>detergent. Thick Czech accent and his first intro was a question to us 
>"Wherr iss fiah ixtingisha?". That promised to be fun and it was. I 
>never had any interest in chemistry but this guy woke me up, and a lot 
>of others as well.

My favorite was at what was called Business/Teacher day... teachers
went out and were toured thru businesses, business man came and
'taught' for the day... my favorite: the county medical examiner...
really neat pictures of how an autopsy is done (the girls were none
too happy >:-}
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

             I'm looking for work... see my website.

Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#470037

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-07-21 23:20 -0400
Message-ID<vvg5nc5enq11nd60kvv4mfud2kr196h8as@4ax.com>
In reply to#469923
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:02:07 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 2017-07-21 10:32, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>>> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>>> 		
>>>>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>>>
>>>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they
>>>> merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for
>>>> machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I
>>>> thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see
>>>> things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school
>>>> path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>>
>
>Then they are faced with the CNC and the lack of algebra knowledge 
>causes them major trouble. Simple math won't cut it anymore if one wants 
>to reach higher job levels in many such fields.
>
>
>>> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>> adjuncts.
>>
>> I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>> teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>> cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>>
>
>I inquired about teaching analog circuit design at a local college. Pay 
>was not so important because at some point one has to give back. I was 
>told that I need the "proper credentials" first. Really? So I went into 
>other "giving back" fields without such non-sensical stone-walling and 
>fiefdom behavior. Where I don't even get gas money and that's ok. Best 
>of all, no union.

When I was teaching an IS course at a local college, I asked the dean
if taught all the classes required for the degree, if I got the degree
(it was a master's level course).  He wasn't pleased.

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#470034

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-07-21 23:16 -0400
Message-ID<5og5nc94kgrn38gtekde632b2la8n9htso@4ax.com>
In reply to#469910
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:32:07 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>><mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>> 
>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>> 		
>>>>                                         ...Jim Thompson
>>>
>>>I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they 
>>>merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for 
>>>machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I 
>>>thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see 
>>>things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school 
>>>path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>
>>Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>adjuncts.
>
>I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.

I taught at a local college for a few years.  It was beer money but
not much more.  The IBM education department paid a lot more (did it a
lot more years) and I taught on company time.  ;-)

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#470143

FromJoerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Date2017-07-22 13:26 -0700
Message-ID<ethqnbFlvtiU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#470034
On 2017-07-21 20:16, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:32:07 -0700, Jim Thompson
> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>>> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>>> 		
>>>>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>>>
>>>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they
>>>> merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for
>>>> machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I
>>>> thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see
>>>> things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school
>>>> path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>>
>>> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>> adjuncts.
>>
>> I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>> teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>> cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>
> I taught at a local college for a few years.  It was beer money but
> not much more.  The IBM education department paid a lot more (did it a
> lot more years) and I taught on company time.  ;-)
>

Teaching at companies is often much less problematic. No stupid 
credential requirements, no union strangleholds and they pay the regular 
rate without flinching. Sometimes it was "old stuff". For example, I was 
surprised that none of the EEs at one company knew how to do impedance 
matching via Smith Chart. "You mean you did that job with just a piece 
of paper?" ... "Yeah, and a compass". So they booked a lesson.

TSA didn't allow a compass to be in the carry-on so I had to quickly buy 
one after arrival, at night. A Walmart was still open and I bought a 
kids school compass for $0.99 plus tax. Surprisingly TSA was ok with 
that one on the way back.

The most interesting teaching situation was in South Korea. I had to 
limit my Englisch to words that were easy to understand and had to adapt 
to their accent a bit (and later unlearn that again). "Wot lieshe foh 
won glou in shiste?" -> "What is the reason to have only one ground in 
the system?".

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#470172

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-07-22 20:20 -0400
Message-ID<7eq7nchet2aumki9j1640o3ke63e1ejtrb@4ax.com>
In reply to#470143
On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 13:26:33 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 2017-07-21 20:16, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:32:07 -0700, Jim Thompson
>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:26:36 -0700, John Larkin
>>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
>>>> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>>>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>>>> 		
>>>>>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>>>>
>>>>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when they
>>>>> merged with the state university system. Out went programs like math for
>>>>> machinists, and instead students were forced to take algebra and trig. I
>>>>> thought then that the changes were a huge mistake and I'm glad to see
>>>>> things may be reverting back. Why flunk students out of a trade school
>>>>> path over a math program they wont ever apply in their jobs?
>>>>
>>>> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
>>>> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
>>>> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
>>>> adjuncts.
>>>
>>> I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to
>>> teach some courses.  What they offered as compensation wouldn't even
>>> cover my gasoline costs.  I declined.
>>
>> I taught at a local college for a few years.  It was beer money but
>> not much more.  The IBM education department paid a lot more (did it a
>> lot more years) and I taught on company time.  ;-)
>>
>
>Teaching at companies is often much less problematic. No stupid 
>credential requirements, no union strangleholds and they pay the regular 
>rate without flinching. Sometimes it was "old stuff". For example, I was 
>surprised that none of the EEs at one company knew how to do impedance 
>matching via Smith Chart. "You mean you did that job with just a piece 
>of paper?" ... "Yeah, and a compass". So they booked a lesson.
>
>TSA didn't allow a compass to be in the carry-on so I had to quickly buy 
>one after arrival, at night. A Walmart was still open and I bought a 
>kids school compass for $0.99 plus tax. Surprisingly TSA was ok with 
>that one on the way back.

It had to be more dangerous than a good compass (with a point the size
of a small sewing needle).
>
>The most interesting teaching situation was in South Korea. I had to 
>limit my Englisch to words that were easy to understand and had to adapt 
>to their accent a bit (and later unlearn that again). "Wot lieshe foh 
>won glou in shiste?" -> "What is the reason to have only one ground in 
>the system?".


As I said, I taught for years.  IBM paid really well.  IIRC, $35/hour
additional when I taught on their time.  The assumption was that I
prepared on my time (2:1 hours).  After teaching a course a couple of
times, prep time goes to zero but their pay scale didn't take that
into consideration.  ;-)

At the time they had a lot of secretaries and production technicians
they didn't need anymore and were retraining them to be programmers or
engineering technicians.  This was before IBM got down with layoff, of
course.  A lot of engineers wanted to know more about PCs, too.  It
was a great racket.  ;-)  My management thought it was great that we
were helping the education department.

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#470076

From"Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com>
Date2017-07-22 11:31 -0400
Message-ID<okvqto$cqf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#469904
John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:11:31 -0500, Mark Storkamp
> <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <mdo2nch864jphgr4miamra3bbfv79fnrdp@4ax.com>,
>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>>>
>>> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-
>>> algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>
>>>
>>>                                         ...Jim Thompson
>>
>> I was taking a couple of classes at the local vo-tech school when
>> they merged with the state university system. Out went programs like
>> math for machinists, and instead students were forced to take
>> algebra and trig. I thought then that the changes were a huge
>> mistake and I'm glad to see things may be reverting back. Why flunk
>> students out of a trade school path over a math program they wont
>> ever apply in their jobs?
>
> Colleges are now all about money. Keep raising tuition (enabled by the
> student loan program) and keep offering courses that are cheap to
> teach. Labs and good teachers are expensive, so go with laptops and
> adjuncts.

Our aircraft mechanics used to be taught on mockups of engines and 
hydraulic systems, but now the classes are all simulations.


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#469883

FromJoerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Date2017-07-21 09:20 -0700
Message-ID<etenttFp71U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#469817
On 2017-07-20 19:07, Jim Thompson wrote:
> OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue...
>
> <http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/20/community-colleges-looking-to-drop-algebra-as-a-requirement-sounds-a-little-anti-science/>


My jaw dropped when they did that. "Not enough kids can pass the test 
... oh, let's just drop it then".

Time for better schools, and certainly not the schools the unions want.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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