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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #451353 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-03-11 11:53 -0800 |
| Last post | 2017-03-11 20:14 -0600 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 94 — 14 participants |
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Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-11 11:53 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-03-11 13:03 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-11 12:31 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-11 18:36 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-12 07:10 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 13:09 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-11 12:34 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 14:13 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-11 16:00 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 17:22 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-11 21:40 -0500
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-12 07:07 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-12 07:59 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-12 08:16 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-12 12:16 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-13 11:19 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-15 12:52 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-16 08:01 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-16 10:19 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-16 10:37 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-16 16:12 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-16 16:33 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-16 20:15 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-12 20:43 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-13 02:05 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-13 21:33 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-14 06:38 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-14 12:47 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-14 12:00 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-14 20:44 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-15 05:53 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-15 12:53 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-03-15 15:11 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-15 16:34 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-15 20:38 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-16 08:03 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-16 20:36 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-17 16:54 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-17 22:35 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-18 07:42 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 10:47 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-14 05:12 +0000
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-14 12:48 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-13 11:20 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-12 20:39 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-13 16:53 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-13 17:13 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-14 08:06 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-12 20:36 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-13 11:54 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-11 13:27 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-11 16:02 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-11 16:33 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-12 07:14 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-12 11:38 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-13 15:49 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-14 06:40 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-14 07:59 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-14 12:51 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-14 11:57 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-14 14:01 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-14 14:21 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-14 16:59 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-16 00:50 +1100
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-15 07:26 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-15 11:17 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-15 16:31 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-15 16:59 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-15 19:06 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-16 23:26 +1100
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-16 10:12 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-14 20:47 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-14 20:47 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-16 08:06 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-17 16:29 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-17 22:39 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 01:52 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 09:45 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 07:37 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 10:48 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 09:18 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 14:13 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 13:20 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 20:00 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 18:40 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 22:17 -0400
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-19 12:14 -0400
) Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-03-12 01:12 -0500
Re: ) tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-12 03:51 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-03-11 14:27 -0600
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-11 12:38 -0800
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-12 23:57 +1100
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-12 07:17 -0700
Re: Very slightly OT: Circuit breaker compatibility Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2017-03-11 20:14 -0600
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| From | tabbypurr@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-16 16:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <74c59ab3-d8a1-4890-8f15-940a37970efd@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452148 |
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 17:37:07 UTC, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-03-16 10:19, tabbypurr wrote: > > On Thursday, 16 March 2017 15:01:04 UTC, Joerg wrote: > >> On 2017-03-15 12:52, Don Y wrote: > >>> On 3/13/2017 11:19 AM, Joerg wrote: > >>>> On 2017-03-12 12:16, Don Y wrote: > >>>>> On 3/12/2017 8:16 AM, Joerg wrote: > > Almost all houses here have breakers feed several rooms. I've not > > found it to be a problem. > > Until someone turns a bedroom into an office. a complete non-problem. Unless you expect in there a 10kW kiln for the heads of nonpaying customers? > >>> It's only recent construction that has opted to put more branch > >>> circuits in place in rooms other than the kitchen. > > > > radial circuits however are a safety issue. > > > > Why? rings are safer primarily because they keep working fine with a high resistance connection, radials burn out or catch fire. > I lived on the upper floor of a free-standing house near Aberdeen for a > short while. That house had solid granite blocks as outer walls and was > the sturdies place I ever lived in. The neighboring homes were built > that way as well. IIRC each outlet had its own little fuse of 13A or so > locally. very unusual > >> laser printing was no problem. Here all we get is 1800W on most and > >> 2400W on the few 20A circuits. Which really puts a crimp into my > >> home brewing activities. Do you brew on a grand scale? > > A tyipcal socket circuit here has a 32A breaker providing 7.68kW > > continuous, and much more short term. It's common to run 45 or 50A > > short term as multiple appliances heat simultaneously. > > > > 32A is even better though in the UK each regular socket is limited to > 13A while in Germany that is 16A: NT
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-16 16:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ej0llkFmelmU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #452186 |
On 2017-03-16 16:12, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, 16 March 2017 17:37:07 UTC, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-03-16 10:19, tabbypurr wrote: >>> On Thursday, 16 March 2017 15:01:04 UTC, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2017-03-15 12:52, Don Y wrote: >>>>> On 3/13/2017 11:19 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> On 2017-03-12 12:16, Don Y wrote: >>>>>>> On 3/12/2017 8:16 AM, Joerg wrote: > >>> Almost all houses here have breakers feed several rooms. I've >>> not found it to be a problem. >> >> Until someone turns a bedroom into an office. > > a complete non-problem. Unless you expect in there a 10kW kiln for > the heads of nonpaying customers? > I mean a serious office. Worst case with another one next door on the same circuit if your spouse also works from home. Or a lab if you are a self-employed engineer. Copier, printer, coffee maker, a li'l space heater for nippy winter days, and so on. 120V/15A is totally inadequate for two of those. Heck, I can't even brew beer on one of those wimpy circuits and have to run an extension cord to another. Then it still takes two hours to get six gallons to a boil. One just one circuit this would become an all-day affair. > >>>>> It's only recent construction that has opted to put more >>>>> branch circuits in place in rooms other than the kitchen. >>> >>> radial circuits however are a safety issue. >>> >> >> Why? > > rings are safer primarily because they keep working fine with a high > resistance connection, radials burn out or catch fire. > Not really. In a ring you can have redundancy but this means an error would go undetected until the next one happens, and then ... bzzzt .. PHUT. Also, a ring is not all that practical in an American home that is almost the size of Balmoral Castle. > >> I lived on the upper floor of a free-standing house near Aberdeen >> for a short while. That house had solid granite blocks as outer >> walls and was the sturdies place I ever lived in. The neighboring >> homes were built that way as well. IIRC each outlet had its own >> little fuse of 13A or so locally. > > very unusual > Not in Scotland. I asked the owners that and they said no. Just that the granite is a wee bit radioactive but due to McEwan's Heavy, Single Malt and high-energy sports such as the telephone pole toss the Scots have a long life anyways. > >>>> laser printing was no problem. Here all we get is 1800W on most >>>> and 2400W on the few 20A circuits. Which really puts a crimp >>>> into my home brewing activities. > > Do you brew on a grand scale? > Each batch is about 5 gallons or 18 liters. This means you have to heat 6-6.5 gallons. I usually run two brew sessions per day. Due to the wimpy electric circuit power in US houses I have to make sure the morning brew is one without much in specialty grains so I am done by lunchtime. I have to turn on the two burners the instant I get out of bed at 6:30am. >>> A tyipcal socket circuit here has a 32A breaker providing 7.68kW >>> continuous, and much more short term. It's common to run 45 or >>> 50A short term as multiple appliances heat simultaneously. >>> >> >> 32A is even better though in the UK each regular socket is limited >> to 13A while in Germany that is 16A: > -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | tabbypurr@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-16 20:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c2b38a63-cf52-44fd-a092-bcd10d116ede@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452191 |
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 23:33:14 UTC, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-03-16 16:12, tabbypurr wrote: > > On Thursday, 16 March 2017 17:37:07 UTC, Joerg wrote: > >> On 2017-03-16 10:19, tabbypurr wrote: > >>> On Thursday, 16 March 2017 15:01:04 UTC, Joerg wrote: > >>>> On 2017-03-15 12:52, Don Y wrote: > >>>>> On 3/13/2017 11:19 AM, Joerg wrote: > >>>>>> On 2017-03-12 12:16, Don Y wrote: > >>>>>>> On 3/12/2017 8:16 AM, Joerg wrote: > > > >>> Almost all houses here have breakers feed several rooms. I've > >>> not found it to be a problem. > >> > >> Until someone turns a bedroom into an office. > > > > a complete non-problem. Unless you expect in there a 10kW kiln for > > the heads of nonpaying customers? > > > > I mean a serious office. Worst case with another one next door on the > same circuit if your spouse also works from home. Or a lab if you are a > self-employed engineer. Copier, printer, coffee maker, a li'l space > heater for nippy winter days, and so on. 120V/15A is totally inadequate > for two of those. 32A 240v handles those with ease. 120v 15A could do it if you used 2 or 3 way switches on the heavy loads so the space heater cuts out during brewing etc. Not ideal but usable. A plug-in space heater indicates a need to rethink the heating. > Heck, I can't even brew beer on one of those wimpy circuits and have to > run an extension cord to another. Then it still takes two hours to get > six gallons to a boil. One just one circuit this would become an all-day > affair. > > > > > >>>>> It's only recent construction that has opted to put more > >>>>> branch circuits in place in rooms other than the kitchen. > >>> > >>> radial circuits however are a safety issue. > >>> > >> > >> Why? > > > > rings are safer primarily because they keep working fine with a high > > resistance connection, radials burn out or catch fire. > > > > Not really. In a ring you can have redundancy but this means an error > would go undetected until the next one happens, and then ... bzzzt .. PHUT. Ring circuit: 1 fault no problem, 2nd fault on same conductor = hazard. Radial circuit: every fault = hazard Not surprisingly nearly 100% of joint faults are not accompanied by a 2nd on the same conductor. > Also, a ring is not all that practical in an American home that is > almost the size of Balmoral Castle. It uses less copper. I won't bore you with why we use them and no-one else does, but briefly they use less copper and are safer. NT
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-12 20:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <akqbccd9lkgk6oaas4161u97so6re28fl9@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451484 |
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:
>That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
>thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
>this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
>the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
>> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
>> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
>> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
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| From | tabbypurr@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-13 02:05 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5c10718a-5473-4de3-9f75-05703bd4970c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451554 |
On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
> >thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
> >this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
> >the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
>
> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
>
> >> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
> >> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
> >> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
>
> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
NT
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-13 21:33 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <63iecctm9fg9s4e87klaim1pv0km5g4psg@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451594 |
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 02:05:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
>> >thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
>> >this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
>> >the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
>>
>> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
>>
>> >> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
>> >> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
>> >> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
>>
>> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
>
>Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
A L-N short will not trip a GFCI.
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| From | tabbypurr@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-14 06:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3692619c-3c8b-4fbd-b019-cd5365f4f3ea@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451718 |
On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:34:43 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 02:05:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
> >On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
> >> >thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
> >> >this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
> >> >the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
> >>
> >> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
> >>
> >> >> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
> >> >> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
> >> >> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
> >>
> >> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
> >
> >Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
>
> A L-N short will not trip a GFCI.
L-E conduction does. So GFCI protected feeds are safer, hence we use them.
NT
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-14 12:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ok7gccd1nn6adirv8h9q2c9vfqte41qtiq@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451769 |
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:38:47 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:34:43 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 02:05:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
>> >On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
>> >> >thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
>> >> >this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
>> >> >the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
>> >>
>> >> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
>> >>
>> >> >> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
>> >> >> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
>> >> >> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
>> >>
>> >> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
>> >
>> >Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
>>
>> A L-N short will not trip a GFCI.
>
>L-E conduction does. So GFCI protected feeds are safer, hence we use them.
Where do you get E in a bed?
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-14 12:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <eiqsugFhj63U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #451784 |
On 2017-03-14 09:47, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:38:47 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:34:43 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 02:05:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
>>>> On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
>>>>>> thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
>>>>>> this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
>>>>>> the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
>>>>>>> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
>>>>>>> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
>>>>
>>>> Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
>>>
>>> A L-N short will not trip a GFCI.
>>
>> L-E conduction does. So GFCI protected feeds are safer, hence we use them.
>
> Where do you get E in a bed?
>
Metal bed frame, metal (grounded) night stand lamp, wetted bed sheets,
et cetera. Think older person. There is a lot of stuff that happens at
high age that most of us can't imagine unless we have exposure to that
field, for example via volunteering. Or until we get there outselves.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-14 20:44 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <9i3hccla3gqonkkokusq4gu1p5ijsfhi2f@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451801 |
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:00:38 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:
>On 2017-03-14 09:47, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:38:47 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:34:43 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 02:05:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
>>>>>>> thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
>>>>>>> this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
>>>>>>> the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
>>>>>>>> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
>>>>>>>> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
>>>>>
>>>>> Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
>>>>
>>>> A L-N short will not trip a GFCI.
>>>
>>> L-E conduction does. So GFCI protected feeds are safer, hence we use them.
>>
>> Where do you get E in a bed?
>>
>
>Metal bed frame, metal (grounded) night stand lamp, wetted bed sheets,
>et cetera. Think older person. There is a lot of stuff that happens at
>high age that most of us can't imagine unless we have exposure to that
>field, for example via volunteering. Or until we get there outselves.
Oh, good fucking grief! How any failures do you have in series there?
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| From | tabbypurr@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-15 05:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b316fe3e-13fa-4415-be5e-5643addab951@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451865 |
On Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:45:09 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:00:38 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
> >On 2017-03-14 09:47, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:38:47 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:34:43 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 02:05:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
> >>>>>>> thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
> >>>>>>> this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
> >>>>>>> the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
> >>>>>>>> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
> >>>>>>>> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
> >>>>
> >>>> A L-N short will not trip a GFCI.
> >>>
> >>> L-E conduction does. So GFCI protected feeds are safer, hence we use them.
> >>
> >> Where do you get E in a bed?
> >>
> >
> >Metal bed frame, metal (grounded) night stand lamp, wetted bed sheets,
> >et cetera. Think older person. There is a lot of stuff that happens at
> >high age that most of us can't imagine unless we have exposure to that
> >field, for example via volunteering. Or until we get there outselves.
>
> Oh, good fucking grief! How any failures do you have in series there?
Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together.
NT
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-15 12:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <c4sicchrokhua5t39g9f5v6vb4u9rat8jr@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451935 |
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 05:53:27 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>On Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:45:09 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:00:38 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On 2017-03-14 09:47, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 06:38:47 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
>> >>> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:34:43 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 02:05:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
>> >>>>> On Monday, 13 March 2017 00:44:05 UTC, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 08:16:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> That all becomes a pain when, like happened to me, you have a
>> >>>>>>> thunderstorm and ... THWOCK ... lights out. Now where is a flashlight in
>> >>>>>>> this building? Where could the breaker panel be? Basement? Which room in
>> >>>>>>> the basement? Or is there a subpanel on another floor? Maybe on this floor?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Kitchens must have at least two small appliance circuits.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> If you enjoy the convenience of having the ability to reset a blown breaker
>> >>>>>>>> AT the receptacle, why not put a GFCI on EACH branch circuit? ("Gee, which
>> >>>>>>>> bedroom has the GFCI for *this* bedroom's outlets?")
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Why would you have a GFCI for a bedroom?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Electric blankets kill more people than all other domestic appliances.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> A L-N short will not trip a GFCI.
>> >>>
>> >>> L-E conduction does. So GFCI protected feeds are safer, hence we use them.
>> >>
>> >> Where do you get E in a bed?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Metal bed frame, metal (grounded) night stand lamp, wetted bed sheets,
>> >et cetera. Think older person. There is a lot of stuff that happens at
>> >high age that most of us can't imagine unless we have exposure to that
>> >field, for example via volunteering. Or until we get there outselves.
>>
>> Oh, good fucking grief! How any failures do you have in series there?
>
>Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together.
That may be but it's NOT because of electricution and a GFCI won't
help.
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| From | kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-15 15:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d778e39e-19e0-4aed-9900-c1543a6108da@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451935 |
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: ... > Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. > > > NT Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). kevin
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| From | tabbypurr@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-15 16:34 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <16340204-314e-4deb-951b-d379e311f992@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452011 |
On Wednesday, 15 March 2017 22:11:11 UTC, kevin93 wrote: > On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabby wrote: > ... > > Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. > Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). > > kevin We're accustomed to it, but the idea of putting a very thin flimsy heating wire in a flammable blanket that gets flexed loads does seem like asking for trouble. And it turns out it is. NT
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-15 20:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <7gnjcc1kak2ut2aj4htc9kg7khe4vnq2ab@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452011 |
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:11:05 -0700 (PDT), kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> wrote: >On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >... >> Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. >> >> >> NT > >Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). Exactly. Arc-fault interruptors address this problem. Ground Fault interrupters don't to squat.
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-16 08:03 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <eivnqjFgafjU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #452038 |
On 2017-03-15 17:38, krw@notreal.com wrote: > On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:11:05 -0700 (PDT), kevin93 > <kevin@whitedigs.com> wrote: > >> On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >> ... >>> Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. >>> >>> >>> NT >> >> Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). > > Exactly. Arc-fault interruptors address this problem. Ground Fault > interrupters don't to squat. > You have never been in the home of a frail elderly person who gets by on a measly social security check and with whatever they've already got? Including that heating blanket from the 70's that's already totally frayed but "it still works"? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-16 20:36 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <robmcc5vtseoeh91sp9almdfdbub5e30lt@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452112 |
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:03:58 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-03-15 17:38, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:11:05 -0700 (PDT), kevin93 >> <kevin@whitedigs.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >>> ... >>>> Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. >>>> >>>> >>>> NT >>> >>> Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). >> >> Exactly. Arc-fault interruptors address this problem. Ground Fault >> interrupters don't to squat. >> > >You have never been in the home of a frail elderly person who gets by on >a measly social security check and with whatever they've already got? >Including that heating blanket from the 70's that's already totally >frayed but "it still works"? You still don't get it. The problem with electric blankes is *FIRE*, not electicution. Even if it were, there is no ground around to trip a GFCI. Ergo, a GFCI is completely useless in this situation.
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-17 16:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ej3b8oF85vrU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #452206 |
On 2017-03-16 17:36, krw@notreal.com wrote: > On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:03:58 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-03-15 17:38, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:11:05 -0700 (PDT), kevin93 >>> <kevin@whitedigs.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> ... >>>>> Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> NT >>>> >>>> Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). >>> >>> Exactly. Arc-fault interruptors address this problem. Ground Fault >>> interrupters don't to squat. >>> >> >> You have never been in the home of a frail elderly person who gets by on >> a measly social security check and with whatever they've already got? >> Including that heating blanket from the 70's that's already totally >> frayed but "it still works"? > > You still don't get it. The problem with electric blankes is *FIRE*, > not electicution. Even if it were, there is no ground around to trip > a GFCI. Ergo, a GFCI is completely useless in this situation. > Yeah, right ... http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/kashmir/short-circuit-in-electric-blanket-kills-senior-kashmir-doctor/234344.html -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-17 22:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <n47pccdibbs44m8l2uj1mcb06b3mm7qhal@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452338 |
On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:54:15 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-03-16 17:36, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:03:58 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2017-03-15 17:38, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:11:05 -0700 (PDT), kevin93 >>>> <kevin@whitedigs.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> ... >>>>>> Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> NT >>>>> >>>>> Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). >>>> >>>> Exactly. Arc-fault interruptors address this problem. Ground Fault >>>> interrupters don't to squat. >>>> >>> >>> You have never been in the home of a frail elderly person who gets by on >>> a measly social security check and with whatever they've already got? >>> Including that heating blanket from the 70's that's already totally >>> frayed but "it still works"? >> >> You still don't get it. The problem with electric blankes is *FIRE*, >> not electicution. Even if it were, there is no ground around to trip >> a GFCI. Ergo, a GFCI is completely useless in this situation. >> > >Yeah, right ... > >http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/kashmir/short-circuit-in-electric-blanket-kills-senior-kashmir-doctor/234344.html So the great Joerg knows how to use Google. Wow! BTW, where did it say anything about L-E?
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-18 07:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ej4vb4FhtdhU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #452369 |
On 2017-03-17 19:35, krw@notreal.com wrote: > On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:54:15 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-03-16 17:36, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:03:58 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2017-03-15 17:38, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:11:05 -0700 (PDT), kevin93 >>>>> <kevin@whitedigs.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:53:36 AM UTC-7, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> ... >>>>>>> Again electric blankets kill more people than all other household appliances put together. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NT >>>>>> >>>>>> Although it seems that the major issue is causing fires rather than electrocution. (at least form my quick perusal via Google). >>>>> >>>>> Exactly. Arc-fault interruptors address this problem. Ground Fault >>>>> interrupters don't to squat. >>>>> >>>> >>>> You have never been in the home of a frail elderly person who gets by on >>>> a measly social security check and with whatever they've already got? >>>> Including that heating blanket from the 70's that's already totally >>>> frayed but "it still works"? >>> >>> You still don't get it. The problem with electric blankes is *FIRE*, >>> not electicution. Even if it were, there is no ground around to trip >>> a GFCI. Ergo, a GFCI is completely useless in this situation. >>> >> >> Yeah, right ... >> >> http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/kashmir/short-circuit-in-electric-blanket-kills-senior-kashmir-doctor/234344.html > > So the great Joerg knows how to use Google. Wow! BTW, where did it > say anything about L-E? > No but it's obvious what happened. It was just one example and that one was a fatality which could most likely have been avoided had there been GFCI protection. Other cases result is a shock followed by a bad fall, meaning ER or worse. Again, when you are caring or volunteering for elderly people you'll find all sorts of hazardous stuff and a common one if worn out electric blanket. "Oh, don't worry, this still has years of life in it". Taking that away from an old guy is about as difficult as taking the car keys away. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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