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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #450905 > unrolled thread
| Started by | John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-03-08 17:11 -0800 |
| Last post | 2017-03-13 19:59 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 75 — 33 participants |
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why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-08 17:11 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-09 10:35 +0200
Re: why analog electronics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-03-09 07:00 -0700
Re: why analog electronics bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-09 09:30 -0500
Re: why analog electronics gregz <zekor@comcast.net> - 2017-03-10 08:23 +0000
Re: why analog electronics bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-09 09:25 -0500
Re: why analog electronics Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-03-09 18:29 +0000
Re: why analog electronics doh@yipee.com - 2017-03-09 13:42 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-09 22:29 +0000
Re: why analog electronics pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 14:59 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-10 08:27 +0000
Re: why analog electronics Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2017-03-10 15:07 +0100
Re: why analog electronics bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-10 12:17 -0500
Re: why analog electronics bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-10 12:18 -0500
Re: why analog electronics Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-03-10 13:30 +0100
Re: why analog electronics bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-13 04:06 -0700
Re: why analog electronics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-10 12:50 +1100
Re: why analog electronics "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-09 20:07 -0600
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-09 19:28 -0800
Re: why analog electronics "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-10 19:05 -0600
Re: why analog electronics Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-03-10 04:49 -0800
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-10 08:08 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-12 02:30 +0000
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-13 10:18 -0700
Re: why analog electronics Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-13 22:56 +0000
Re: why analog electronics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-03-11 00:02 +0100
Re: why analog electronics jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 20:50 -0800
Re: why analog electronics boB@everett.wa - 2017-03-09 22:33 -0800
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-10 13:16 -0500
Re: why analog electronics boB <boB@theresnoplacelikehome.com> - 2017-03-10 12:24 -0800
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-10 20:04 -0500
Re: why analog electronics boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> - 2017-03-10 19:41 -0800
Re: why analog electronics djlocher56@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 22:27 -0800
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-10 13:17 -0500
Re: why analog electronics bulegoge@columbus.rr.com - 2017-03-10 10:51 -0800
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-10 20:06 -0500
Re: why analog electronics "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-10 19:09 -0600
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-10 22:15 -0500
Re: why analog electronics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-10 14:12 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-03-10 15:30 -0700
Re: why analog electronics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-10 15:04 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Anthony Stewart <tony.sunnysky@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 09:38 -0800
Re: why analog electronics boB@everett.wa - 2017-03-10 11:03 -0800
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-10 20:09 -0500
Re: why analog electronics boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> - 2017-03-10 19:50 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-10 12:50 -0800
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-10 13:18 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-10 13:36 -0800
Re: why analog electronics George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-10 17:01 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-11 16:04 -0800
Re: why analog electronics "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-10 19:08 -0600
Re: why analog electronics George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-10 18:54 -0800
Re: why analog electronics "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-11 11:45 -0600
Re: why analog electronics "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-03-17 22:02 -0400
Re: why analog electronics "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-18 03:55 -0500
Re: why analog electronics boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> - 2017-03-10 19:56 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-03-11 12:42 -0600
Re: why analog electronics Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-11 13:20 -0800
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-11 14:51 -0800
Re: why analog electronics Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-03-12 13:28 +0000
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-12 10:49 -0700
Re: why analog electronics Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-03-12 21:10 +0000
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-12 19:29 -0400
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-12 16:49 -0700
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-12 21:18 -0400
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-12 19:07 -0700
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-12 22:43 -0400
Re: why analog electronics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-12 19:53 -0700
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-12 23:01 -0400
Re: why analog electronics pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-13 07:19 -0700
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-13 20:39 -0400
Re: why analog electronics pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-14 04:28 -0700
Re: why analog electronics krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-14 12:42 -0400
Re: why analog electronics Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-15 09:56 -0400
Re: why analog electronics George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-13 19:59 -0700
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| From | tabbypurr@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 15:04 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <b169c7c3-5538-4f8a-a2b2-7f133492b8c1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451220 |
On Friday, 10 March 2017 22:31:06 UTC, Jim Thompson wrote: > On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 14:12:35 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote: > >On Friday, 10 March 2017 06:27:19 UTC, djloc...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Electronics can roughly be divided into two areas. The transfer of power/energy and the transfer and processing of information. Digital has completely won in the transfer of information > > > >I think it's a bit early to say that. Computer evolution has a very long way to go, and there's a valid point to reintroducing some analogue into that. Some jobs are best/quickest/easiest/cheapest done digital, and some analogue. A small amount of analogue processing could improve total performance. > > > > > >NT > > Those who spout that there's now only digital forget the fact that > virtually all I/O on a consumer product chip is analog. > > ...Jim Thompson I suppose like anything there are popular notions that sound like they add up to folk that know no different. I see lots of packaging of consumer products trying to give the impression things are digital when they're not, playing to this myth people have bought into. One of the more remarkable examples was a PIR detector/alarm that was pictured on the package as emitting a grid of red light round the room. As if. NT
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| From | Anthony Stewart <tony.sunnysky@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 09:38 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <93e0485c-4e45-4315-829a-430c5683acb2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #450905 |
Even Quantum Mechanics is based on analog, but at the MBA level many OSI layers are ignored.
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| From | boB@everett.wa |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 11:03 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <itt5cc1mlp9km3g60ot77ka80eff8k5t1e@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451176 |
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:38:14 -0800 (PST), Anthony Stewart <tony.sunnysky@gmail.com> wrote: >Even Quantum Mechanics is based on analog, but at the MBA level many OSI layers are ignored. Even at the quantum level, an electron can only occupy quanized levels, so is it really analog then ? boB
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 20:09 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <uej6ccd6n5714mvtpgm635erosv3a3vhmd@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451199 |
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:03:19 -0800, boB@everett.wa wrote: >On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:38:14 -0800 (PST), Anthony Stewart ><tony.sunnysky@gmail.com> wrote: > >>Even Quantum Mechanics is based on analog, but at the MBA level many OSI layers are ignored. > >Even at the quantum level, an electron can only occupy quanized >levels, so is it really analog then ? > Don't forget Max Plank. I think he nailed the bottom turtle.
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| From | boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 19:50 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <rrs6cc1gf937660t7ldgvq5k686rcjlro2@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451250 |
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 20:09:04 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote: >On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:03:19 -0800, boB@everett.wa wrote: > >>On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:38:14 -0800 (PST), Anthony Stewart >><tony.sunnysky@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Even Quantum Mechanics is based on analog, but at the MBA level many OSI layers are ignored. >> >>Even at the quantum level, an electron can only occupy quanTized >>levels, so is it really analog then ? >> >Don't forget Max Plank. I think he nailed the bottom turtle. Absolutely ! fascinating stuff ! e = h f
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 12:50 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <eighsnFfumuU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #450905 |
On 2017-03-08 17:11, John Larkin wrote: > > The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took > his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. Do they make that much money? No wonder the UC system is always close to broke. After what happened there lately I would not touch UC Berkeley with a 10ft pole. > He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still > does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not > being a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. > We had a professor who seriously said something like this in front of the whole auditorium: "Now you don't have to deal with this sort of stuff in practice anymore, just for the exam. Because by the time you receive your degrees all of it will be inside ICs and you don't have to worry about board level analog design anymore". Boy was that guy wrong. Of course, I knew it and went analog full tilt. The sad thing is that many of my mates believed him and went into software and other areas. Now us analog guys can't retire because of that. > So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, > maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. > http://www.chezpanisse.com/menus/restaurant-menu/ Pricey. And no beer list so I'd prefer Zeitgeist. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 13:18 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ep56cch1r2ej6nfhr2pbp47tua3t5dvfos@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451209 |
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:50:41 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-03-08 17:11, John Larkin wrote: >> >> The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took >> his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. > > >Do they make that much money? No wonder the UC system is always close to >broke. The guy is a low-integer billionaire. He owns some islands and stuff. > >After what happened there lately I would not touch UC Berkeley with a >10ft pole. Agreed. But they have a good MBA program. > > >> He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still >> does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not >> being a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. >> > >We had a professor who seriously said something like this in front of >the whole auditorium: "Now you don't have to deal with this sort of >stuff in practice anymore, just for the exam. Because by the time you >receive your degrees all of it will be inside ICs and you don't have to >worry about board level analog design anymore". Keep it up! Less competition. > >Boy was that guy wrong. Of course, I knew it and went analog full tilt. >The sad thing is that many of my mates believed him and went into >software and other areas. Now us analog guys can't retire because of that. Could be worse, like getting a degree in anthropology and wind up selling matresses. > > >> So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, >> maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. >> > >http://www.chezpanisse.com/menus/restaurant-menu/ > >Pricey. And no beer list so I'd prefer Zeitgeist. She said it was OK but she'd just a soon have a Bullburger. https://www.menuism.com/restaurants/bullshead-restaurant-san-francisco-91052 -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 13:36 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <eigkiqFgfraU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #451212 |
On 2017-03-10 13:18, John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:50:41 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-03-08 17:11, John Larkin wrote: [...] >>> So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, >>> maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. >>> >> >> http://www.chezpanisse.com/menus/restaurant-menu/ >> >> Pricey. And no beer list so I'd prefer Zeitgeist. > > She said it was OK but she'd just a soon have a Bullburger. > > https://www.menuism.com/restaurants/bullshead-restaurant-san-francisco-91052 > We'll have Leberkaes tonight: http://www.marions-kochbuch.de/dru-pic/0295.jpg It is kind of a "meat cheese". Goes very well with a Koelsch which is homebrewed, of course. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 17:01 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <399a5360-3df3-4f90-ae0c-c2db8497f06e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451209 |
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 3:50:39 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-03-08 17:11, John Larkin wrote: > > > > The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took > > his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. > > > Do they make that much money? No wonder the UC system is always close to > broke. > > After what happened there lately I would not touch UC Berkeley with a > 10ft pole. > > > > He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still > > does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not > > being a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. > > > > We had a professor who seriously said something like this in front of > the whole auditorium: "Now you don't have to deal with this sort of > stuff in practice anymore, just for the exam. Because by the time you > receive your degrees all of it will be inside ICs and you don't have to > worry about board level analog design anymore". > > Boy was that guy wrong. Of course, I knew it and went analog full tilt. > The sad thing is that many of my mates believed him and went into > software and other areas. Now us analog guys can't retire because of that. > > > > So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, > > maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. > > > > http://www.chezpanisse.com/menus/restaurant-menu/ > > Pricey. And no beer list so I'd prefer Zeitgeist. I was at this spendy restaurant, (a conference in/ near Santa Barbara) the only beer they had was a Belgian ale. Kono and I ordered too many bottles! Well really the perfect amount, we were walking home. My first taste of Belgian abbey ale. Affligem Dubbel. George H. > > -- > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-11 16:04 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <eijhkoF3douU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #451242 |
On 2017-03-10 17:01, George Herold wrote: > On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 3:50:39 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-03-08 17:11, John Larkin wrote: [...] >>> So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, >>> maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. >>> >> >> http://www.chezpanisse.com/menus/restaurant-menu/ >> >> Pricey. And no beer list so I'd prefer Zeitgeist. > I was at this spendy restaurant, (a conference in/ > near Santa Barbara) the only beer they had was a > Belgian ale. Kono and I ordered too many bottles! > Well really the perfect amount, we were walking > home. My first taste of Belgian abbey ale. > Affligem Dubbel. > That is seriously good stuff, and pricey. Now that I make my own abbey ale it's not so pricey but even there a small 12oz bottle easily comes to $1. Not $5 like in the store though. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 19:08 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o9vifq$ee1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #450905 |
"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works." - Michael Hartung Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com "John Larkin" <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message news:jea1cc5ealcjf3b9ot1kfsuqkl0lu6me44@4ax.com... > > The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took > his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. > He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still > does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not > being a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. > > So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, > maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. > > > -- > > John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc > picosecond timing precision measurement > > jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com > http://www.highlandtechnology.com >
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| From | George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 18:54 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <5d27f81a-197d-4e16-9355-b106fa65dc8f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451248 |
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 8:07:50 PM UTC-5, Tim Williams wrote: > "Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works." - Michael Hartung Grin, hadn't heard that. My ~10 yro copy of Eagle (4.15) is still running fine (on Win 7), I don't ask it to do much. I've got other software, that now is only kept alive on a virtual XP machine. (I'm kinda a ludite with software though.) Oh and as I've read, storage is best done digital, whether DNA or bits. Analog makes the measurement, digital records it and passes it on. George H. > > Tim > > -- > Seven Transistor Labs, LLC > Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design > Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com > > > "John Larkin" <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message > news:jea1cc5ealcjf3b9ot1kfsuqkl0lu6me44@4ax.com... > > > > The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took > > his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. > > He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still > > does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not > > being a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. > > > > So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, > > maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. > > > > > > -- > > > > John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc > > picosecond timing precision measurement > > > > jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com > > http://www.highlandtechnology.com > >
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| From | "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-11 11:45 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <oa1cte$v4g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #451263 |
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message news:5d27f81a-197d-4e16-9355-b106fa65dc8f@googlegroups.com... > Grin, hadn't heard that. My ~10 yro copy of Eagle (4.15) is still > running fine (on Win 7), I don't ask it to do much. > I've got other software, that now is only kept alive on a > virtual XP machine. (I'm kinda a ludite with software though.) Not that Eagle has ever "worked" all that well... :^) > Oh and as I've read, storage is best done digital, > whether DNA or bits. Analog makes the measurement, > digital records it and passes it on. Had an idea for a semi-analog storage (e.g. sample-and-hold), namely one without drift. Though it would be slow. Suppose you use back-to-back F-to-V and V-to-F converters, and lock it with a PLL. Interrupt the loop with a regular S&H when you want to update the value. I suddenly forget why that would work... you'd have to add another constraint that the frequency is divided evenly, or a ratio is conserved, or something. Otherwise, drift is drift. And yes, once you're locked to a rational number, you're as good as digital, it's just arising from a circuit different from the canonical ADC-latch-DAC. Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
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| From | "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-17 22:02 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oai4tv$fcc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #451337 |
Tim Williams wrote: > "George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message > news:5d27f81a-197d-4e16-9355-b106fa65dc8f@googlegroups.com... >> Grin, hadn't heard that. My ~10 yro copy of Eagle (4.15) is still >> running fine (on Win 7), I don't ask it to do much. >> I've got other software, that now is only kept alive on a >> virtual XP machine. (I'm kinda a ludite with software though.) > > Not that Eagle has ever "worked" all that well... :^) > > >> Oh and as I've read, storage is best done digital, >> whether DNA or bits. Analog makes the measurement, >> digital records it and passes it on. > > Had an idea for a semi-analog storage (e.g. sample-and-hold), namely > one without drift. Though it would be slow. Suppose you use > back-to-back F-to-V and V-to-F converters, and lock it with a PLL. > Interrupt the loop with a regular S&H when you want to update the > value. > I suddenly forget why that would work... you'd have to add another > constraint that the frequency is divided evenly, or a ratio is > conserved, or something. Otherwise, drift is drift. And yes, once > you're locked to a rational number, you're as good as digital, it's > just arising from a circuit different from the canonical > ADC-latch-DAC. How could the number of bits of storage ever be greater than the number of bits in the frequency divider? I mean, the number of states is the number of states. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
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| From | "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-18 03:55 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oaisgu$1r8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #452365 |
"Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote in message news:oai4tv$fcc$1@dont-email.me... > How could the number of bits of storage ever be greater than the number of > bits in the frequency divider? I mean, the number of states is the number > of states. Yes! The storage is in the divider, of course. Tricky, because the division can be, ehh, kind of teeter-totter balanced on a low-gain spur from an XOR phase detector -- but, outside of those cases, in a classical VCO(-mult)-divider-PLL design, that is exactly it. I wonder what I was thinking (was it XOR phase detection?), and if there was something cool there at all, or not... :) Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
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| From | boB K7IQ <boB@everett.wa> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-10 19:56 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <i6t6cct89va4ns6oibll47vb6s66pjk3jk@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451248 |
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 19:08:09 -0600, "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: >"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works." - Michael Hartung > >Tim Yes. that sentence says it all ! I like it ! So, add in non-linear circuits too... Kind of in-between. Log amps and stuff. Of course, nothing is perfectly nonlinear. boB
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| From | Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-11 12:42 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <UKadnaCuxNWZ2FnFnZ2dnUU7-dGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #450905 |
On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 17:11:04 -0800, John Larkin wrote: > The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took > his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. > He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still > does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not being > a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. > > So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, > maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. I'll cosign. I know there have been other articles on the theme of "there will always be analog" most of which make good points. I couldn't point you to any links, though. I do think that in general the most common circuits now are ADC -> digital -> DAC, and that the dividing line between the analog and digital keeps getting pushed closer and closer to the edges of the board. But I also firmly believe that there will _always_ be applications for which a pure, or mostly, analog solution is the sensible way to go. (I'm currently immersed in Shannon's 1948 tutorial paper where he spells out his channel capacity theorem. He mentions PCM modulation, AKA digital replacement of an analog signal, as an example of sending redundant information on a signal. Doing so comes complete with the thresholding effects you see in any other forward error correction scheme, where things are Really Good up to some threshold, and then things get Really Bad.) -- www.wescottdesign.com
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| From | Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-11 13:20 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <a9d6c2aa-b0a2-4202-acea-d9460e8add29@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #451347 |
Den lørdag den 11. marts 2017 kl. 19.42.19 UTC+1 skrev Tim Wescott: > On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 17:11:04 -0800, John Larkin wrote: > > > The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took > > his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. > > He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still > > does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not being > > a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. > > > > So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, > > maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. > > I'll cosign. I know there have been other articles on the theme of > "there will always be analog" most of which make good points. I couldn't > point you to any links, though. > > I do think that in general the most common circuits now are ADC -> > digital -> DAC, and that the dividing line between the analog and digital > keeps getting pushed closer and closer to the edges of the board. But I > also firmly believe that there will _always_ be applications for which a > pure, or mostly, analog solution is the sensible way to go. > > (I'm currently immersed in Shannon's 1948 tutorial paper where he spells > out his channel capacity theorem. He mentions PCM modulation, AKA > digital replacement of an analog signal, as an example of sending > redundant information on a signal. Doing so comes complete with the > thresholding effects you see in any other forward error correction > scheme, where things are Really Good up to some threshold, and then > things get Really Bad.) > I remember that from working on bluetooth nearly 20 years ago, when measuring sensitivity there was a razor edge between between zero bit errors loss and 100% packet loss
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-11 14:51 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <o7v8cclv8v427vbnptk8fmsdmmdurpkk77@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #451347 |
On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 12:42:12 -0600, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote: >On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 17:11:04 -0800, John Larkin wrote: > >> The Brat is in the UC Berkeley MBA program, and one of her profs took >> his entire class to dinner at Chez Panisse, which ran about $200 per. >> He was asking about our company, and was surprised that anyone still >> does analog electronics. "Isn't everything digital now?" He's not being >> a jerk, he's seriously wondering why anything is analog. >> >> So, I'm going to write him a little essay on "why analog?" Who knows, >> maybe he'll take me to Chez Panisse. > >I'll cosign. I know there have been other articles on the theme of >"there will always be analog" most of which make good points. I couldn't >point you to any links, though. > >I do think that in general the most common circuits now are ADC -> >digital -> DAC, and that the dividing line between the analog and digital >keeps getting pushed closer and closer to the edges of the board. But I >also firmly believe that there will _always_ be applications for which a >pure, or mostly, analog solution is the sensible way to go. > >(I'm currently immersed in Shannon's 1948 tutorial paper where he spells >out his channel capacity theorem. He mentions PCM modulation, AKA >digital replacement of an analog signal, as an example of sending >redundant information on a signal. Doing so comes complete with the >thresholding effects you see in any other forward error correction >scheme, where things are Really Good up to some threshold, and then >things get Really Bad.) I can buy a 32 Gbyte USB memory stick for $9. That's roughly 2e-12 dollars per transistor. Or I can buy a fast opamp for about the same price, with maybe 100 transistors inside, around 10 cents per transistor. The memory stick comes with free shipping, and the opamp doesn't. I'm designing two boxes just now that are both 100% analog. Not a flipflop or gate in sight. That's refreshing. We have much higher markups on all-analog stuff than on mixed-signal products. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-12 13:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oa3ien$h3o$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #451383 |
On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 14:51:51 -0800, John Larkin wrote: > I'm designing two boxes just now that are both 100% analog. Not a > flipflop or gate in sight. That's refreshing. We have much higher > markups on all-analog stuff than on mixed-signal products. Roland Moreno, the inventor of the smart card gave an interview to Electronics Times and came out with this pithy observation: "Digital is easy. Analog.... that's professional."
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