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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #460255 > unrolled thread

Fast buffer idea

Started bybitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
First post2017-05-14 13:50 -0400
Last post2017-05-16 14:05 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 134 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 13:50 -0400
    Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 11:27 -0700
      Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-14 19:19 +0000
        Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 15:24 -0400
        Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 12:54 -0700
          Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 16:02 -0400
            Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 13:10 -0700
              Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 16:16 -0400
                Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 16:18 -0400
                Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 14:14 -0700
                Re: Fast buffer idea "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 19:51 +0100
                  Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 13:17 -0700
                    Re: Fast buffer idea Clifford Heath <clifford.heath@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 09:14 +1000
                      Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 16:26 -0700
                        Re: Fast buffer idea "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-17 02:04 -0500
          Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-14 20:26 +0000
            Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 16:31 -0400
            Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 16:43 -0400
            Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 14:17 -0700
              Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-14 21:53 +0000
                Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 16:14 -0700
                  Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 19:59 -0400
                    Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 20:06 -0700
                  Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 00:16 +0000
                    Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 20:10 -0700
                      Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 03:28 +0000
                        Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 20:48 -0700
                          Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 04:17 +0000
          Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 07:56 +0000
            Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 06:58 -0400
              Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 12:59 +0000
            Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-15 07:01 -0700
              Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 10:09 -0400
                Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 10:18 -0400
                  Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-15 08:56 -0700
                    Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 16:02 +0000
                      Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 10:33 -0700
                        Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 18:15 +0000
                          Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 14:25 -0400
                            Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 14:26 -0400
                  Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 16:24 +0000
                    Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 16:36 +0000
                      Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 17:18 +0000
                        Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 13:30 -0400
                          Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 18:07 +0000
                            Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 19:19 +0000
                              Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 19:45 +0000
                                Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 08:33 +0000
                          Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 19:13 +0000
                            Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 15:33 -0400
                              Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 08:16 +0000
                                Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-16 22:10 -0400
                        Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 19:10 +0000
                Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-15 08:55 -0700
                  Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 12:51 -0400
                    Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 12:56 -0400
                      Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 13:05 -0400
                    Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 10:28 -0700
                      Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 13:38 -0400
                        Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 11:29 -0700
                          Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 18:41 +0000
                            Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 13:19 -0700
                              Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 20:46 +0000
                                Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 13:56 -0700
                                  Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 21:00 +0000
                                    Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 16:46 -0700
                                      Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-16 01:22 +0000
                                        Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 11:16 -0700
                                          Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-16 18:55 +0000
                                            Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 12:21 -0700
                                              Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-16 20:33 +0000
                                                Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 14:00 -0700
                                                  Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-16 21:21 +0000
                                                    Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 16:15 -0700
                                                      Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-16 23:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-16 17:51 -0700
                                                    Re: Fast buffer idea pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 16:30 -0700
                                                      Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-17 00:16 +0000
                                                        Re: Fast buffer idea pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 18:05 -0700
                                                          Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 20:05 -0700
                                                          Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-25 01:13 +0000
                                                            Re: Fast buffer idea Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-24 21:43 -0400
                                                              Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-30 03:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Fast buffer idea Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> - 2017-05-17 02:26 +0000
                                                    Re: Fast buffer idea Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2017-05-17 08:34 +0200
                                                      Re: Fast buffer idea Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> - 2017-05-17 14:31 +0000
                                                        Re: Fast buffer idea Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-17 10:39 -0400
                                                          Re: Fast buffer idea Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:02 +0800
                                          Re: Fast buffer idea Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2017-05-16 21:24 +0200
                                            Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 20:12 -0700
                                    Re: Fast buffer idea Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-25 04:38 -0700
                                      Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-25 07:28 -0700
                                        Re: Fast buffer idea "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-26 08:54 -0500
                                          Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-26 14:14 +0000
                                          Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-26 07:21 -0700
                                Re: Fast buffer idea "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 20:27 +0100
                          Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 15:05 -0400
                            Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 15:19 -0400
                            Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 13:21 -0700
                              Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 20:56 +0000
                              Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 17:37 -0400
                Re: Fast buffer idea "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 19:50 +0100
                  Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 19:25 +0000
                    Re: Fast buffer idea "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 20:19 +0100
              Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 14:33 +0000
                Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 13:15 -0400
                  Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 19:05 +0000
                    Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-15 15:38 -0400
                      Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 08:12 +0000
                        Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 18:47 +0000
                          Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-16 21:52 -0400
                            Re: Fast buffer idea Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-25 05:05 -0700
                              Re: Fast buffer idea pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-25 05:42 -0700
                                Re: Fast buffer idea Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-25 05:49 -0700
                                  Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-25 08:10 -0700
                              Re: Fast buffer idea Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2017-05-25 15:01 +0200
        Re: Fast buffer idea "John Miles, KE5FX" <jmiles@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 18:53 -0700
          Re: Fast buffer idea Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 02:45 +0000
      Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 15:23 -0400
    Re: Fast buffer idea "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-14 20:28 +0100
      Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 16:00 -0400
      Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 16:10 -0400
        Re: Fast buffer idea Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-14 17:58 -0700
          Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-14 23:13 -0400
          Re: Fast buffer idea Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-16 17:27 -0700
            Re: Fast buffer idea Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-16 17:34 -0700
        Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 20:14 -0700
          Re: Fast buffer idea "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 19:42 +0100
    Re: Fast buffer idea "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-16 03:29 -0500
      Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 06:57 -0700
        Re: Fast buffer idea bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-16 22:47 -0400
          Re: Fast buffer idea John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 20:18 -0700
            Re: Fast buffer idea "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-17 02:22 -0500
      Re: Fast buffer idea Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 14:05 +0000

Page 2 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7  Next page →


#460297

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-05-14 16:14 -0700
Message-ID<qoohhct3d12od74tmv1g3p4887mvrilebb@4ax.com>
In reply to#460288
On Sun, 14 May 2017 21:53:32 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> 
>> The TI THS series really screams. There are parts with 1.8 GHz GBW and
>> huge output currents. Or the Analog Devices AD800x parts.
>
>Both are slow. 2GHz or so.

But the TI parts have huge voltage swing and current capability.
Everyone else is ratcheting down voltage as speed goes up.

>
>These look interesting:
>
>  LTC6268 4GHz
>  http://www.linear.com/docs/46371

Impressive, except for the 5 volt supply.

>
>  LTC6409 10GHz  1.1nV/rt(Hz)
>  http://www.linear.com/docs/29893
>
>

I used a similar part, LTC6402 differential ADC driver. It was flakey,
so we had to redesign with an ADA4950.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#460298

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-05-14 19:59 -0400
Message-ID<Wb6SA.117727$ef.47896@fx34.iad>
In reply to#460297
On 05/14/2017 07:14 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 14 May 2017 21:53:32 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The TI THS series really screams. There are parts with 1.8 GHz GBW and
>>> huge output currents. Or the Analog Devices AD800x parts.
>>
>> Both are slow. 2GHz or so.
>
> But the TI parts have huge voltage swing and current capability.
> Everyone else is ratcheting down voltage as speed goes up.
>
>>
>> These look interesting:
>>
>>  LTC6268 4GHz
>>  http://www.linear.com/docs/46371
>
> Impressive, except for the 5 volt supply.
>
>>
>>  LTC6409 10GHz  1.1nV/rt(Hz)
>>  http://www.linear.com/docs/29893
>>
>>
>
> I used a similar part, LTC6402 differential ADC driver. It was flakey,
> so we had to redesign with an ADA4950.
>
>

For 6 bucks they better be hand-crafted by the Gnomes of Zurich!

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#460310

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-05-14 20:06 -0700
Message-ID<qo6ihc5diuu084u5kf2d5uhl5rskiipuh6@4ax.com>
In reply to#460298
On Sun, 14 May 2017 19:59:50 -0400, bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 05/14/2017 07:14 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 May 2017 21:53:32 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The TI THS series really screams. There are parts with 1.8 GHz GBW and
>>>> huge output currents. Or the Analog Devices AD800x parts.
>>>
>>> Both are slow. 2GHz or so.
>>
>> But the TI parts have huge voltage swing and current capability.
>> Everyone else is ratcheting down voltage as speed goes up.
>>
>>>
>>> These look interesting:
>>>
>>>  LTC6268 4GHz
>>>  http://www.linear.com/docs/46371
>>
>> Impressive, except for the 5 volt supply.
>>
>>>
>>>  LTC6409 10GHz  1.1nV/rt(Hz)
>>>  http://www.linear.com/docs/29893
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I used a similar part, LTC6402 differential ADC driver. It was flakey,
>> so we had to redesign with an ADA4950.
>>
>>
>
>For 6 bucks they better be hand-crafted by the Gnomes of Zurich!

A part like that would generally feed an $80 ADC.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#460300

FromSteve Wilson <no@spam.com>
Date2017-05-15 00:16 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA775CE41D90Aidtokenpost@69.16.179.22>
In reply to#460297
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
 
>>  LTC6409 10GHz  1.1nV/rt(Hz)
>>  http://www.linear.com/docs/29893

> I used a similar part, LTC6402 differential ADC driver. It was flakey,
> so we had to redesign with an ADA4950.
 
The LTC6402 is nowhere near similar to the LTC6409. 

Fixed 20db gain, 300MHz BW vs unity gain stable, 10GHz GBW. Totally 
different devices.

I'm surprised you had problems with LTC. They usually have a petty good 
reputation for quality.

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#460312

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-05-14 20:10 -0700
Message-ID<us6ihc15rjpaoj4iumashjhu8gicgi8n1g@4ax.com>
In reply to#460300
On Mon, 15 May 2017 00:16:33 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> 
>>>  LTC6409 10GHz  1.1nV/rt(Hz)
>>>  http://www.linear.com/docs/29893
>
>> I used a similar part, LTC6402 differential ADC driver. It was flakey,
>> so we had to redesign with an ADA4950.
> 
>The LTC6402 is nowhere near similar to the LTC6409. 
>
>Fixed 20db gain, 300MHz BW vs unity gain stable, 10GHz GBW. Totally 
>different devices.

12 db gain. It tended to oscillate at large swings.

>
>I'm surprised you had problems with LTC. They usually have a petty good 
>reputation for quality.

We were surprised too. And annoyed that we had to spin the board.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#460316

FromSteve Wilson <no@spam.com>
Date2017-05-15 03:28 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA775EEDFA105Aidtokenpost@69.16.179.22>
In reply to#460312
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

> 12 db gain. It tended to oscillate at large swings.
 
Are you talking about a different device? There doesn't seem to be any way 
to change the gain of the LTC6402 except by adding external feedback. This 
may cause enough phase shift to produce the oscillations.

>>I'm surprised you had problems with LTC. They usually have a petty good 
>>reputation for quality. 
 
> We were surprised too. And annoyed that we had to spin the board.

Did you send your data to LTC? 

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#460318

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-05-14 20:48 -0700
Message-ID<039ihch59phkovcecuolghnoi1lnmevvvt@4ax.com>
In reply to#460316
On Mon, 15 May 2017 03:28:56 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>> 12 db gain. It tended to oscillate at large swings.
> 
>Are you talking about a different device? There doesn't seem to be any way 
>to change the gain of the LTC6402 except by adding external feedback. This 
>may cause enough phase shift to produce the oscillations.

We used the LT6402-12.

>
>>>I'm surprised you had problems with LTC. They usually have a petty good 
>>>reputation for quality. 
> 
>> We were surprised too. And annoyed that we had to spin the board.
>
>Did you send your data to LTC? 

No, we just spun the board.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#460321

FromSteve Wilson <no@spam.com>
Date2017-05-15 04:17 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA77630C34193idtokenpost@69.16.179.23>
In reply to#460318
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
 
> We used the LT6402-12.
 
Aha! I didn't even know that version existed. Thanks.

The response curves show peaking around 200MHz, especially with capacitive 
load. The small signal and large signal response shows severe ringing and 
overshoot with square wave input on Page 7 and Page 8 in 

http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/640212fa.pdf

Looks like there is enough information in the datasheet to steer you away 
from this device.

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#460328

FromJan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
Date2017-05-15 07:56 +0000
Message-ID<ofbmuh$s3t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460267
On a sunny day (Sun, 14 May 2017 12:54:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
<auchhcp4h0898t9hatrh3017esf6dve1n5@4ax.com>:

>If the object is to buffer a logic level, some 13-cent TinyLogic gate,
>like an NL37WZ16US or something.
>
>If it needs to be linear, there are tons of opamps to consider:
>THS4222, AD8007, whatever.

THS4222 datasheet says open loop gain 0dB at 100 MHz?
With a free 80 degrees phase shift?
Fig 17, see also Fig 1 for 500 Ohm load.

It won't drive a 50 Ohm coax either..
Maybe good for a 5 to 10 MHz wide video amp...


But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
 

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#460332

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-05-15 06:58 -0400
Message-ID<cRfSA.95424$se.10515@fx38.iad>
In reply to#460328
On 05/15/2017 03:56 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 14 May 2017 12:54:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin
> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
> <auchhcp4h0898t9hatrh3017esf6dve1n5@4ax.com>:
>
>> If the object is to buffer a logic level, some 13-cent TinyLogic gate,
>> like an NL37WZ16US or something.
>>
>> If it needs to be linear, there are tons of opamps to consider:
>> THS4222, AD8007, whatever.
>
> THS4222 datasheet says open loop gain 0dB at 100 MHz?
> With a free 80 degrees phase shift?
> Fig 17, see also Fig 1 for 500 Ohm load.
>
> It won't drive a 50 Ohm coax either..
> Maybe good for a 5 to 10 MHz wide video amp...
>
>
> But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
>
>

Yeah, and a fast diamond buffer has a very small amount of phase shift, 
maybe a couple 10s of degrees in the worst case.

You can certainly wrap a a fast unity gain op-amp feedback loop around 
such a structure without any extra compensation; it doesn't even need to 
be a blindingly-fast $7 op-amp, just a regular-fast op amp. It'll handle 
DC to 5MHz say, and then anything higher gets bypassed around it and 
pushed straight through.

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#460335

FromJan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
Date2017-05-15 12:59 +0000
Message-ID<ofc8o2$1s4b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460332
On a sunny day (Mon, 15 May 2017 06:58:15 -0400) it happened bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote in <cRfSA.95424$se.10515@fx38.iad>:

>On 05/15/2017 03:56 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 14 May 2017 12:54:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
>> <auchhcp4h0898t9hatrh3017esf6dve1n5@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> If the object is to buffer a logic level, some 13-cent TinyLogic gate,
>>> like an NL37WZ16US or something.
>>>
>>> If it needs to be linear, there are tons of opamps to consider:
>>> THS4222, AD8007, whatever.
>>
>> THS4222 datasheet says open loop gain 0dB at 100 MHz?
>> With a free 80 degrees phase shift?
>> Fig 17, see also Fig 1 for 500 Ohm load.
>>
>> It won't drive a 50 Ohm coax either..
>> Maybe good for a 5 to 10 MHz wide video amp...
>>
>>
>> But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
>>
>>
>
>Yeah, and a fast diamond buffer has a very small amount of phase shift, 
>maybe a couple 10s of degrees in the worst case.
>
>You can certainly wrap a a fast unity gain op-amp feedback loop around 
>such a structure without any extra compensation; it doesn't even need to 
>be a blindingly-fast $7 op-amp, just a regular-fast op amp. It'll handle 
>DC to 5MHz say, and then anything higher gets bypassed around it and 
>pushed straight through.

For video, out of habit let's say:
From:
 http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/hud.html
 the circuit diagram:
  http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/hud-0.1_circuit_diagram_IMG_5984.JPG
  bottom left:
that has a gain of 2, so can drive a 75 Ohm cable with reasonable Zi.
The DC path requires an other 75 Ohm at the end of the cable.
No specs.. What's a few MHz among video freaks...:-)
I had it in spice once and it oscillated.... Not in reality :-).
That was actually the first time I ever used spice.... many decades ago.
Wonder how high it would go with some of them modern transistors.
Spice not online here ATM...

Now I was in the garden sitting in the sun, the wind,
good time to get a sailboat and forget about it all.

<disclaimer>
 
</disclaimer>

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#460337

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-05-15 07:01 -0700
Message-ID<dpcjhclpajjafaf2nq0q7l7nt17jl40spo@4ax.com>
In reply to#460328
On Mon, 15 May 2017 07:56:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 14 May 2017 12:54:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
><auchhcp4h0898t9hatrh3017esf6dve1n5@4ax.com>:
>
>>If the object is to buffer a logic level, some 13-cent TinyLogic gate,
>>like an NL37WZ16US or something.
>>
>>If it needs to be linear, there are tons of opamps to consider:
>>THS4222, AD8007, whatever.
>
>THS4222 datasheet says open loop gain 0dB at 100 MHz?

Where does it say that?

>With a free 80 degrees phase shift?
>Fig 17, see also Fig 1 for 500 Ohm load.
>
>It won't drive a 50 Ohm coax either..
>Maybe good for a 5 to 10 MHz wide video amp...
>

BW is 230 MHz as a unity-gain buffer. Each half of the dual will
source and sink 88 mA. And there are lots of faster THS-series parts.

>
>But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
> 

Post it.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#460340

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-05-15 10:09 -0400
Message-ID<EEiSA.74451$bl5.68044@fx25.iad>
In reply to#460337
On 05/15/2017 10:01 AM, John Larkin wrote:

> BW is 230 MHz as a unity-gain buffer. Each half of the dual will
> source and sink 88 mA. And there are lots of faster THS-series parts.
>
>>
>> But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
>>
>
> Post it.

With discretes you can have:

1) wide bandwidth

2) low parts count

3) low quiescent current draw

Pick two.

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#460343

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-05-15 10:18 -0400
Message-ID<IMiSA.118013$ef.91898@fx34.iad>
In reply to#460340
On 05/15/2017 10:09 AM, bitrex wrote:
> On 05/15/2017 10:01 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> BW is 230 MHz as a unity-gain buffer. Each half of the dual will
>> source and sink 88 mA. And there are lots of faster THS-series parts.
>>
>>>
>>> But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
>>>
>>
>> Post it.
>
> With discretes you can have:
>
> 1) wide bandwidth
>
> 2) low parts count
>
> 3) low quiescent current draw
>
> Pick two.

The two transistor circuit Jan posted does have a pretty wide bandwidth 
and a low parts count. It has a pretty nice small signal output 
impedance, but its large-signal output impedance is bad. It also draws a 
relatively large amount of quiescent current.

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#460356

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-05-15 08:56 -0700
Message-ID<6sjjhc1mm6atuu3ovmnnmtpke1iu2t4fgh@4ax.com>
In reply to#460343
On Mon, 15 May 2017 10:18:16 -0400, bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 05/15/2017 10:09 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 05/15/2017 10:01 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> BW is 230 MHz as a unity-gain buffer. Each half of the dual will
>>> source and sink 88 mA. And there are lots of faster THS-series parts.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post it.
>>
>> With discretes you can have:
>>
>> 1) wide bandwidth
>>
>> 2) low parts count
>>
>> 3) low quiescent current draw
>>
>> Pick two.
>
>The two transistor circuit Jan posted does have a pretty wide bandwidth 
>and a low parts count. It has a pretty nice small signal output 
>impedance, but its large-signal output impedance is bad. It also draws a 
>relatively large amount of quiescent current.

Iq is undefined, and this is a poster child for thermal runaway. It
needs more parts!


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#460359

FromJan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
Date2017-05-15 16:02 +0000
Message-ID<ofcjfa$jc6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460356
On a sunny day (Mon, 15 May 2017 08:56:58 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
<6sjjhc1mm6atuu3ovmnnmtpke1iu2t4fgh@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 15 May 2017 10:18:16 -0400, bitrex
><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>On 05/15/2017 10:09 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 05/15/2017 10:01 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> BW is 230 MHz as a unity-gain buffer. Each half of the dual will
>>>> source and sink 88 mA. And there are lots of faster THS-series parts.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Post it.
>>>
>>> With discretes you can have:
>>>
>>> 1) wide bandwidth
>>>
>>> 2) low parts count
>>>
>>> 3) low quiescent current draw
>>>
>>> Pick two.
>>
>>The two transistor circuit Jan posted does have a pretty wide bandwidth 
>>and a low parts count. It has a pretty nice small signal output 
>>impedance, but its large-signal output impedance is bad. It also draws a 
>>relatively large amount of quiescent current.
>
>Iq is undefined, and this is a poster child for thermal runaway. It
>needs more parts!

????
TWO transistor ????

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#460379

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2017-05-15 10:33 -0700
Message-ID<pipjhc9dhi9ma87kr2s9mldcgdtm8osav1@4ax.com>
In reply to#460359
On Mon, 15 May 2017 16:02:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Mon, 15 May 2017 08:56:58 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
><6sjjhc1mm6atuu3ovmnnmtpke1iu2t4fgh@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 15 May 2017 10:18:16 -0400, bitrex
>><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 05/15/2017 10:09 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> On 05/15/2017 10:01 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BW is 230 MHz as a unity-gain buffer. Each half of the dual will
>>>>> source and sink 88 mA. And there are lots of faster THS-series parts.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But indeed you can do that with a few NPNs of the old days,
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Post it.
>>>>
>>>> With discretes you can have:
>>>>
>>>> 1) wide bandwidth
>>>>
>>>> 2) low parts count
>>>>
>>>> 3) low quiescent current draw
>>>>
>>>> Pick two.
>>>
>>>The two transistor circuit Jan posted does have a pretty wide bandwidth 
>>>and a low parts count. It has a pretty nice small signal output 
>>>impedance, but its large-signal output impedance is bad. It also draws a 
>>>relatively large amount of quiescent current.
>>
>>Iq is undefined, and this is a poster child for thermal runaway. It
>>needs more parts!
>
>????
>TWO transistor ????

I was referring to this one:

http://panteltje.com/pub/maybe_this_amp_IMG_6183.JPG



-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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#460390

FromSteve Wilson <no@spam.com>
Date2017-05-15 18:15 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA7769101ADEA8idtokenpost@69.16.179.23>
In reply to#460379
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:

>>TWO transistor ????
 
> I was referring to this one:
 
> http://panteltje.com/pub/maybe_this_amp_IMG_6183.JPG

Old idea. I used that in a product in 1979, which won the admiration of 
engineers at HP, and some orders. The drive capability depends on the 
pullup resistors in the bases. Quescent current depends on the output 
emitter resistors, which are not shown in the link.

These issues could be observed in a simple LTspice analysis.

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#460394

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-05-15 14:25 -0400
Message-ID<XomSA.86613$sS7.31036@fx40.iad>
In reply to#460390
On 05/15/2017 02:15 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>
>>> TWO transistor ????
>
>> I was referring to this one:
>
>> http://panteltje.com/pub/maybe_this_amp_IMG_6183.JPG
>
> Old idea. I used that in a product in 1979, which won the admiration of
> engineers at HP, and some orders. The drive capability depends on the
> pullup resistors in the bases. Quescent current depends on the output
> emitter resistors, which are not shown in the link.
>
> These issues could be observed in a simple LTspice analysis.
>

"Diamond buffers are kind of cool, emitter feedback makes them linear 
and they don't have much phase shift, but they kind of suck balls 
whenever you want to actually move appreciable current with them which 
unfortunately is exactly what you'd want to do with a buffer."

The circuit I posted is exactly the same topology, except with the 
following "refinements"

MOSFET first stage for higher input impedance

Feedback taken to MOSFET drains from the output collectors to keep their 
Vds approximately constant

Output quiescent current is primarily set by the (bypassed for AC) input 
stage source resistors, not the output emitter resistors

"Boosting transistors" which slide the bias up in response to signal so 
it doesn't draw 150mA sitting around doing nothing.

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#460395

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-05-15 14:26 -0400
Message-ID<opmSA.86614$sS7.18389@fx40.iad>
In reply to#460394
On 05/15/2017 02:25 PM, bitrex wrote:

> Feedback taken to MOSFET drains from the output collectors to keep their
> Vds approximately constant

Output emitters, rather

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