Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > sci.electronics.design > #518255 > unrolled thread

really fast buffers

Started byJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
First post2018-10-03 15:03 -0700
Last post2018-10-05 10:44 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 96 — 26 participants

Back to article view | Back to sci.electronics.design


Contents

  really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-03 15:03 -0700
    Re: really fast buffers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-03 15:23 -0700
      Re: really fast buffers Andy Bennet <andyb@andy.com> - 2018-10-04 08:20 +0100
        Re: really fast buffers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-04 08:45 -0700
    Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-03 15:52 -0700
      Re: really fast buffers George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2018-10-03 18:08 -0700
        Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-03 20:02 -0700
    Re: really fast buffers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-03 21:54 -0400
      Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <9fe142ac@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 20:10 -0700
        Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-03 20:40 -0700
          Re: really fast buffers pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 05:00 -0700
            Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <9fe142ac@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 08:39 -0700
              Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-04 12:38 -0400
                Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <9fe142ac@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 14:35 -0700
                  Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-04 18:27 -0400
                    Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-05 03:21 +0000
                      Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-05 10:38 -0400
              Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-04 11:50 -0700
                Re: really fast buffers Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-05 09:26 +1000
                  Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-04 17:09 -0700
                    Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-05 03:12 +0000
                      Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 14:18 -0700
                        Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-05 23:42 +0000
                          Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-06 14:41 -0400
                Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-05 03:09 +0000
                  Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-05 10:40 -0400
                    Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-05 11:06 -0400
                      Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 19:16 -0700
                    Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 14:26 -0700
                      Re: really fast buffers George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2018-10-05 18:36 -0700
                        Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 19:22 -0700
                        Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-06 02:28 +0000
                          Re: really fast buffers <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 06:03 +0000
                            Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <9fe142ac@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 23:41 -0700
                              Re: really fast buffers <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 08:12 +0000
                          Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-06 14:46 -0400
                            Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-06 19:03 +0000
                              Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-06 15:32 -0400
                                Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-06 20:08 +0000
                              Re: really fast buffers Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-06 22:19 +0200
                                Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-06 21:02 +0000
                                  Re: really fast buffers tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 16:57 -0700
                                    Re: really fast buffers krw@notreal.com - 2018-10-06 22:30 -0400
                                  Re: really fast buffers Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-07 04:30 +0200
                                  Re: really fast buffers <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-07 07:15 +0000
                                  Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-07 08:24 -0700
                                    Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-07 18:51 -0700
                                    Re: really fast buffers tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-08 08:16 -0700
                                Re: really fast buffers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2018-10-07 07:19 -0700
                                  Re: really fast buffers Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2018-10-10 00:38 -0700
                                    Re: really fast buffers tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 03:02 -0700
                                      Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-10 04:07 -0700
                                        Re: really fast buffers DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-10 11:28 +0000
                                        Re: really fast buffers Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2018-10-11 22:06 -0700
                                          Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-12 00:08 -0700
                                            Re: really fast buffers Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2018-10-13 22:29 -0700
                                              Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-14 00:30 -0700
                                                Re: really fast buffers Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2018-10-15 19:38 -0700
                                                  Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-15 20:55 -0700
                                              Re: really fast buffers tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-14 04:31 -0700
                                                Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-14 07:29 -0700
                                                  Re: really fast buffers Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2018-10-15 19:42 -0700
                                                    Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-15 20:57 -0700
                                                    Re: really fast buffers tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-16 08:41 -0700
                                                      Re: really fast buffers krw@notreal.com - 2018-10-16 17:38 -0400
                                                        Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-16 19:37 -0700
                                                      Re: really fast buffers bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-16 19:40 -0700
                                                Re: really fast buffers Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2018-10-15 19:40 -0700
                                      Re: really fast buffers Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2018-10-11 22:04 -0700
                                        Re: really fast buffers tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 08:02 -0700
                                  Re: really fast buffers Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-10 14:06 +0200
                                    Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-10 08:31 -0700
                                      Re: really fast buffers Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-11 01:49 +0200
                                        Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-10 17:41 -0700
                                    Re: really fast buffers "John Miles, KE5FX" <jmiles@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 20:53 -0700
                                      Re: really fast buffers Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2018-10-11 05:47 +0000
                                      Re: really fast buffers Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-11 12:35 +0200
                          Re: really fast buffers George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2018-10-06 12:39 -0700
                            Re: really fast buffers Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-06 20:11 +0000
                              Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-08 20:26 -0700
                        Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-06 14:45 -0400
                          Re: really fast buffers George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2018-10-06 12:46 -0700
                          Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-08 21:00 -0700
                            Re: really fast buffers Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-09 07:11 +0200
                              Re: really fast buffers Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2018-10-09 23:20 +1100
                                Re: really fast buffers Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2018-10-09 15:17 +0200
            Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-04 09:18 -0700
              Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-04 12:39 -0400
                Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-04 11:51 -0700
          Re: really fast buffers Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2018-10-08 13:19 +0200
            Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-08 08:52 -0700
    Re: really fast buffers whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 11:57 -0700
    Re: really fast buffers David Nadlinger <david@klickverbot.at> - 2018-10-04 23:05 +0100
      Re: really fast buffers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-04 17:23 -0700
        Re: really fast buffers Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-05 11:26 +0200
          Re: really fast buffers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-05 10:44 -0400

Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →


#518255 — really fast buffers

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2018-10-03 15:03 -0700
Subjectreally fast buffers
Message-ID<gnaardpdk6o2lvfm2fd10d0b15mj8lpkgv@4ax.com>
I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.

But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
delay.

Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.

Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.

Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?

ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.

One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?



CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
tempcos.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#518259

FromLasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk>
Date2018-10-03 15:23 -0700
Message-ID<5c855309-15a9-448a-b48d-3cdf3c066cde@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#518255
torsdag den 4. oktober 2018 kl. 00.03.49 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
> fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
> some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
> probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.
> 
> But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
> at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
> Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
> delay.
> 
> Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
> the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
> reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.
> 
> Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.
> 
> Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?
> 
> ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.
> 
> One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?
> 
> 
> 
> CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
> tempcos.
> 

clock buffers ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518308

FromAndy Bennet <andyb@andy.com>
Date2018-10-04 08:20 +0100
Message-ID<C-ednYzQ5oqkIijGnZ2dnUU78eOdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
In reply to#518259
On 03/10/2018 23:23, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> torsdag den 4. oktober 2018 kl. 00.03.49 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>> I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
>> fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
>> some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
>> probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.
>>
>> But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
>> at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
>> Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
>> delay.
>>
>> Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
>> the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
>> reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.
>>
>> Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.
>>
>> Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?
>>
>> ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.
>>
>> One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?
>>
>>
>>
>> CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
>> tempcos.
>>
> 
> clock buffers ?
> 

All the low prop/zero prop clock buffers I know are PLL based and are no 
good for random signal buffering.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518330

FromLasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk>
Date2018-10-04 08:45 -0700
Message-ID<5dd78f95-c26e-4787-a4b6-921ed4fe6bdd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#518308
torsdag den 4. oktober 2018 kl. 09.20.30 UTC+2 skrev Andy Bennet:
> On 03/10/2018 23:23, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> > torsdag den 4. oktober 2018 kl. 00.03.49 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> >> I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
> >> fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
> >> some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
> >> probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.
> >>
> >> But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
> >> at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
> >> Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
> >> delay.
> >>
> >> Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
> >> the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
> >> reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.
> >>
> >> Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.
> >>
> >> Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?
> >>
> >> ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.
> >>
> >> One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
> >> tempcos.
> >>
> > 
> > clock buffers ?
> > 
> 
> All the low prop/zero prop clock buffers I know are PLL based and are no 
> good for random signal buffering.

would they list a minimum frequency then?

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cdc111.pdf

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518262

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2018-10-03 15:52 -0700
Message-ID<elhardpeogu58b9e1se34b13jufriqhub0@4ax.com>
In reply to#518255
On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:03:38 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:

>I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
>fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
>some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
>probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.
>
>But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
>at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
>Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
>delay.
>
>Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
>the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
>reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.
>
>Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.
>
>Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?
>
>ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.
>
>One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?
>
>
>
>CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
>tempcos.

TI's BUF602 looks pretty good for this. It's designed to be a
gain-of-one buffer. Weird pinout, not like an opamp.

GBW is 1 GHZ, pretty good, but the slew rate is 8 v/ns.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518285

FromGeorge Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
Date2018-10-03 18:08 -0700
Message-ID<b741cdb2-b7a8-4f2c-8ae1-b1cb1801e169@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#518262
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 6:52:28 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:03:38 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
> 
> >I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
> >fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
> >some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
> >probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.
> >
> >But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
> >at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
> >Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
> >delay.
> >
> >Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
> >the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
> >reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.
> >
> >Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.
> >
> >Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?
> >
> >ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.
> >
> >One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?
> >
> >
> >
> >CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
> >tempcos.
> 
> TI's BUF602 looks pretty good for this. It's designed to be a
> gain-of-one buffer. Weird pinout, not like an opamp.
> 
> GBW is 1 GHZ, pretty good, but the slew rate is 8 v/ns.
8 v/ns is too slow? how much voltage do you need? 
(sorry I mostly live in 'audio' land, ~10 v/us.)

George H.   

> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
> picosecond timing   precision measurement 
> 
> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
> http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518295

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2018-10-03 20:02 -0700
Message-ID<g70brddun7h6vonn4idmk79ks5pnq6isi9@4ax.com>
In reply to#518285
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 6:52:28 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:03:38 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
>> >fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
>> >some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
>> >probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.
>> >
>> >But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
>> >at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
>> >Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
>> >delay.
>> >
>> >Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
>> >the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
>> >reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.
>> >
>> >Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.
>> >
>> >Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?
>> >
>> >ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.
>> >
>> >One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
>> >tempcos.
>> 
>> TI's BUF602 looks pretty good for this. It's designed to be a
>> gain-of-one buffer. Weird pinout, not like an opamp.
>> 
>> GBW is 1 GHZ, pretty good, but the slew rate is 8 v/ns.
>8 v/ns is too slow? how much voltage do you need? 

No, the 1 GHz is mediocre. The 8v/ns is great.

I'll be following about a 4 volt logic swing from the DUT. This is a
real analog buffer, so if I route the buffered signal to a scope I'll
see pretty much what's there, not a digitally cleaned-up or attenuated
version. I'm guessing it won't add much jitter.

>(sorry I mostly live in 'audio' land, ~10 v/us.)

How do you tolerate waiting around?


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518289

Frombitrex <user@example.net>
Date2018-10-03 21:54 -0400
Message-ID<GpetD.55761$6y.30486@fx09.iad>
In reply to#518255
On 10/03/2018 06:03 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> I'm designing a test board for a laser controller. Incoming signals,
> fast 5 volt pulses, will need to get routed to scopes, counters, and
> some other stuff. It will be kind a maze of connectors and traces and
> probably relays; it's hard to beat a relay as a test path switch.
> 
> But life would be a lot better if I could fan out some of the signals
> at their input connector. I want a zero-delay, zero-jitter buffer.
> Under 1 ns delay might be a reasonable target, with very stable prop
> delay.
> 
> Just resistors could work, but that loses amplitude, and the ends of
> the fanout traces would have to be always terminated to avoid
> reflections. Something unilateral would be easier.
> 
> Fast opamp? THS3201 maybe. I'll have to Spice the prop delay.
> 
> Some sort of source follower, bipolar or phemt or something?
> 
> ECL/Eclips gate? 10EP89 or something.
> 
> One of the screaming Analog Devices comparators?
> 
> 
> 
> CMOS parts are probably all too slow, and they have terrible delay
> tempcos.
> 
> 

My intuition thinks to skip the op amp and CMOS gates and go directly 
for the source follower, maybe using like a phemt and fast bipolar or 
phemt and mosfet in a compound arrangement, will get there.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518296

FromSteve Wilson <9fe142ac@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-03 20:10 -0700
Message-ID<389c8897-eca4-4dcd-843a-f3406f3d23d7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#518289
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:54:51 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

> My intuition thinks to skip the op amp and CMOS gates and go directly 
> for the source follower, maybe using like a phemt and fast bipolar or 
> phemt and mosfet in a compound arrangement, will get there.

I'm with you on the follower, perhaps a 42GHz BFP650, $0.285CAD @QTY100 at Arrow:

https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0

How would you use these in a compound arrangement? (LTspice ASC wellcome for the schematic. I wouldn't expect it to run.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518299

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2018-10-03 20:40 -0700
Message-ID<3j2brdlncd0dsn48vkv3e8cfu96el9k9at@4ax.com>
In reply to#518296
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 20:10:43 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wilson
<9fe142ac@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:54:51 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
>
>> My intuition thinks to skip the op amp and CMOS gates and go directly 
>> for the source follower, maybe using like a phemt and fast bipolar or 
>> phemt and mosfet in a compound arrangement, will get there.
>
>I'm with you on the follower, perhaps a 42GHz BFP650, $0.285CAD @QTY100 at Arrow:
>
>https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0

That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out my
incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 100 mA
(driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms).

The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a phemt.
I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want unpredictable
offsets.

>
>How would you use these in a compound arrangement? (LTspice ASC wellcome for the schematic. I wouldn't expect it to run.)

You could servo out the Vbe offset with an opamp, but that would be a
hassle to do lots of times on my board.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518319

Frompcdhobbs@gmail.com
Date2018-10-04 05:00 -0700
Message-ID<2ac37dbb-2c85-4351-94de-8d8bb2e4e7a7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#518299
>>https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0 

>That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out my 
>incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 100 mA 
>(driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms). 

>The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a phemt. 

Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower. 

>I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want unpredictable 
offsets.

You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let anybody hang a cable on it.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518327

FromSteve Wilson <9fe142ac@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-04 08:39 -0700
Message-ID<41a5fdec-97e2-495c-95a3-2ba9d316fd09@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#518319
On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:00:30 AM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0 
> 
> >That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out my 
> >incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 100 mA 
> >(driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms). 
> 
> >The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a phemt. 
> 
> Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower. 
> 
> >I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want unpredictable 
> offsets.
> 
> You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let anybody hang a cable on it.

I hope that anyone playing with 42GHz GBW would automatically add a base resistor to kill parasitic oscillations. Even a lowly 2N3904 can go into parasitics with a long base lead.

Often the real problem with parasitics is they can occur at a frequency above your fastest scope, so you can't see them. Sometimes even touching part of a circuit can kill weak oscillations, making you believe the circuit is safe. 

Don't believe it. Add a base resistor to any circuit connected to the outside world, or any place where fast transistors are connected together.

Often, a simple hand wave above a circuit can change the operating conditions, or a circuit may only go into oscillation at a certain point on the input waveform. Both issues are hit or miss. Add a base resistor.

The value may range from 100 ohms for low frequency circuits, to perhaps 5 or 10 ohms for fast circuits. You can easily change the value as needed when you gain more experience with the circuit. But it is extremely difficult to add a base resistor to a smd transistor when you have forgotten to include it in the layout. Add a base resistor.

> Cheers
> 
> Phil Hobbs

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518340

FromPhil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>
Date2018-10-04 12:38 -0400
Message-ID<gZSdndBi0eBs3CvGnZ2dnUU7-SnNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#518327
On 10/4/18 11:39 AM, Steve Wilson wrote:
> On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:00:30 AM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>>> https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0
>> 
>>> That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out
>>>  my incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 
>>> 100 mA (driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms).
>> 
>>> The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a 
>>> phemt.
>> 
>> Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as 
>> followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented 
>> ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower.
>> 
>>> I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want 
>>> unpredictable
>> offsets.
>> 
>> You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let
>>  anybody hang a cable on it.
> 
> I hope that anyone playing with 42GHz GBW would automatically add a 
> base resistor to kill parasitic oscillations. Even a lowly 2N3904 can
> go into parasitics with a long base lead.
> 
> Often the real problem with parasitics is they can occur at a 
> frequency above your fastest scope,

Well, I have a couple of 40-50 GHz ones, so that probably won't be an
issue. ;)

> so you can't see them. Sometimes even touching part of a circuit can
>  kill weak oscillations, making you believe the circuit is safe.> 
> Don't believe it. Add a base resistor to any circuit connected to the
> outside world, or any place where fast transistors are connected 
> together.
> 
> Often, a simple hand wave above a circuit can change the operating 
> conditions,

I've posted a few times about my "manual wavemeter".  From July 2015, 
concerning a pHEMT bootstrapped with a SiGe:C BJT:

"The first proto oscillated at around 12 GHz.  I didn't have a microwave
spectrum analyzer at the time, so I measured the frequency by an
interesting manual wavemeter method: if I held my hand over the board at
different heights, the oscillation amplitude varied periodically, with a
period of a bit less than half an inch."

"The actual board was fine, after a bit of Dremelling and adding a bunch
of parallelled bypass caps.  With 40-50 GHz transistors and lots of gain
in a small space, half a nanohenry here and there can ruin your whole day."

> or a circuit may only go into oscillation at a certain point on the 
> input waveform. Both issues are hit or miss.

AKA a snivet.

> Add a base resistor.
> 
> The value may range from 100 ohms for low frequency circuits, to 
> perhaps 5 or 10 ohms for fast circuits. You can easily change the 
> value as needed when you gain more experience with the circuit. But 
> it is extremely difficult to add a base resistor to a smd transistor
>  when you have forgotten to include it in the layout. Add a base 
> resistor.

That blanket rule doesn't cover all the bases, so to speak. ;)  Base
resistors trash the speed and noise performance, so a tight layout and
close attention to minimum-inductance bypassing help a lot.  Then I use 
a zero-ohm jumper as a placeholder for a possibly-needed resistor or bead.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518365

FromSteve Wilson <9fe142ac@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-04 14:35 -0700
Message-ID<69ab9041-df1e-4d9a-a574-6120aaa3b93e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#518340
On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 12:38:20 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 10/4/18 11:39 AM, Steve Wilson wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:00:30 AM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> >>>> https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0
> >> 
> >>> That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out
> >>>  my incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 
> >>> 100 mA (driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms).
> >> 
> >>> The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a 
> >>> phemt.
> >> 
> >> Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as 
> >> followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented 
> >> ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower.
> >> 
> >>> I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want 
> >>> unpredictable
> >> offsets.
> >> 
> >> You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let
> >>  anybody hang a cable on it.
> > 
> > I hope that anyone playing with 42GHz GBW would automatically add a 
> > base resistor to kill parasitic oscillations. Even a lowly 2N3904 can
> > go into parasitics with a long base lead.
> > 
> > Often the real problem with parasitics is they can occur at a 
> > frequency above your fastest scope,
> 
> Well, I have a couple of 40-50 GHz ones, so that probably won't be an
> issue. ;)
> 
> > so you can't see them. Sometimes even touching part of a circuit can
> >  kill weak oscillations, making you believe the circuit is safe.> 
> > Don't believe it. Add a base resistor to any circuit connected to the
> > outside world, or any place where fast transistors are connected 
> > together.
> > 
> > Often, a simple hand wave above a circuit can change the operating 
> > conditions,
> 
> I've posted a few times about my "manual wavemeter".  From July 2015, 
> concerning a pHEMT bootstrapped with a SiGe:C BJT:
> 
> "The first proto oscillated at around 12 GHz.  I didn't have a microwave
> spectrum analyzer at the time, so I measured the frequency by an
> interesting manual wavemeter method: if I held my hand over the board at
> different heights, the oscillation amplitude varied periodically, with a
> period of a bit less than half an inch."
> 
> "The actual board was fine, after a bit of Dremelling and adding a bunch
> of parallelled bypass caps.  With 40-50 GHz transistors and lots of gain
> in a small space, half a nanohenry here and there can ruin your whole day."
> 
> > or a circuit may only go into oscillation at a certain point on the 
> > input waveform. Both issues are hit or miss.
> 
> AKA a snivet.
> 
> > Add a base resistor.
> > 
> > The value may range from 100 ohms for low frequency circuits, to 
> > perhaps 5 or 10 ohms for fast circuits. You can easily change the 
> > value as needed when you gain more experience with the circuit. But 
> > it is extremely difficult to add a base resistor to a smd transistor
> >  when you have forgotten to include it in the layout. Add a base 
> > resistor.
> 
> That blanket rule doesn't cover all the bases, so to speak. ;)  Base
> resistors trash the speed and noise performance, so a tight layout and
> close attention to minimum-inductance bypassing help a lot.  Then I use 
> a zero-ohm jumper as a placeholder for a possibly-needed resistor or bead.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Phil Hobbs
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr Philip C D Hobbs
> Principal Consultant
> ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
> Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
> Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
> 
> http://electrooptical.net
> http://hobbs-eo.com

A zero ohm short may not be the best idea. You have to pay

1. to install the part.

2. to remove it when you find a problem. This can damage the pads.

3. to install a base resistor. This can also damage the pads.

When you multiply the costs by the number of transistor involved, it can mean a substantial amount of money and time lost.

If you install the resistor in the first place, you can eliminate these costs.

After you gain some experience, you can pretty much tell how much resistance to use for each type of transistor and the kind of circuit used. I recommend using the highest value that won't degrade the performance of the circuit. 

Also remember you may have a slow transistor in this production run. The next batch may be on the hot side.

Here's a problem you may not see often. This was in an audio amp. The top trace in blue is the input signal. The bottom trace in red is the parasitic oscillation.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o0YZiXfmORF-yvekNMp3W7Ny6iS8nJQg

Just because you are working in the audio range doesn't prevent a circuit from oscillating at VHF.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518372

FromPhil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>
Date2018-10-04 18:27 -0400
Message-ID<noWdnW-q4aF1DivGnZ2dnUU7-f3NnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#518365
On 10/4/18 5:35 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
> On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 12:38:20 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> On 10/4/18 11:39 AM, Steve Wilson wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:00:30 AM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0
>>>>
>>>>> That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out
>>>>>   my incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even
>>>>> 100 mA (driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms).
>>>>
>>>>> The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a
>>>>> phemt.
>>>>
>>>> Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as
>>>> followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented
>>>> ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower.
>>>>
>>>>> I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want
>>>>> unpredictable
>>>> offsets.
>>>>
>>>> You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let
>>>>   anybody hang a cable on it.
>>>
>>> I hope that anyone playing with 42GHz GBW would automatically add a
>>> base resistor to kill parasitic oscillations. Even a lowly 2N3904 can
>>> go into parasitics with a long base lead.
>>>
>>> Often the real problem with parasitics is they can occur at a
>>> frequency above your fastest scope,
>>
>> Well, I have a couple of 40-50 GHz ones, so that probably won't be an
>> issue. ;)
>>
>>> so you can't see them. Sometimes even touching part of a circuit can
>>>   kill weak oscillations, making you believe the circuit is safe.>
>>> Don't believe it. Add a base resistor to any circuit connected to the
>>> outside world, or any place where fast transistors are connected
>>> together.
>>>
>>> Often, a simple hand wave above a circuit can change the operating
>>> conditions,
>>
>> I've posted a few times about my "manual wavemeter".  From July 2015,
>> concerning a pHEMT bootstrapped with a SiGe:C BJT:
>>
>> "The first proto oscillated at around 12 GHz.  I didn't have a microwave
>> spectrum analyzer at the time, so I measured the frequency by an
>> interesting manual wavemeter method: if I held my hand over the board at
>> different heights, the oscillation amplitude varied periodically, with a
>> period of a bit less than half an inch."
>>
>> "The actual board was fine, after a bit of Dremelling and adding a bunch
>> of parallelled bypass caps.  With 40-50 GHz transistors and lots of gain
>> in a small space, half a nanohenry here and there can ruin your whole day."
>>
>>> or a circuit may only go into oscillation at a certain point on the
>>> input waveform. Both issues are hit or miss.
>>
>> AKA a snivet.
>>
>>> Add a base resistor.
>>>
>>> The value may range from 100 ohms for low frequency circuits, to
>>> perhaps 5 or 10 ohms for fast circuits. You can easily change the
>>> value as needed when you gain more experience with the circuit. But
>>> it is extremely difficult to add a base resistor to a smd transistor
>>>   when you have forgotten to include it in the layout. Add a base
>>> resistor.
>>
>> That blanket rule doesn't cover all the bases, so to speak. ;)  Base
>> resistors trash the speed and noise performance, so a tight layout and
>> close attention to minimum-inductance bypassing help a lot.  Then I use
>> a zero-ohm jumper as a placeholder for a possibly-needed resistor or bead.

> A zero ohm short may not be the best idea. You have to pay
> 
> 1. to install the part.
> 
> 2. to remove it when you find a problem. This can damage the pads.
> 
> 3. to install a base resistor. This can also damage the pads.

You only have to do it on the first article.  Then you change the BOM 
and birds chirp.

> 
> When you multiply the costs by the number of transistor involved, it can mean a substantial amount of money and time lost.
> 
> If you install the resistor in the first place, you can eliminate these costs.

And wind up with crap performance needlessly.

> 
> After you gain some experience, you can pretty much tell how much resistance to use for each type of transistor and the kind of circuit used. I recommend using the highest value that won't degrade the performance of the circuit.

Right, which is my zero-ohm jumper. ;)
> 
> Also remember you may have a slow transistor in this production run. The next batch may be on the hot side.
> 
> Here's a problem you may not see often. This was in an audio amp. The top trace in blue is the input signal. The bottom trace in red is the parasitic oscillation.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o0YZiXfmORF-yvekNMp3W7Ny6iS8nJQg

Sure.  Transistors get faster (up to a point) at higher I_C.

> 
> Just because you are working in the audio range doesn't prevent a circuit from oscillating at VHF.

The slowest scope I use regularly is 1 GHz, 4 GS/s, so those don't get 
by me.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518402

FromSteve Wilson <no@spam.com>
Date2018-10-05 03:21 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA971ED88C3F9Eidtokenpost@69.16.179.22>
In reply to#518372
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

> On 10/4/18 5:35 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
>> A zero ohm short may not be the best idea. You have to pay
 
>> 1. to install the part.
 
>> 2. to remove it when you find a problem. This can damage the pads.
 
>> 3. to install a base resistor. This can also damage the pads.
 
> You only have to do it on the first article.  Then you change the BOM 
> and birds chirp.

Then you find you have a problem in the field. You have to rework all the 
units you have shipped. Why not add a suitable base suppression resistor to 
critical circuits in the first place.
 
>> When you multiply the costs by the number of transistor involved, it
>> can mean a substantial amount of money and time lost. 
 
>> If you install the resistor in the first place, you can eliminate these
>> costs. 
 
> And wind up with crap performance needlessly.
 
I specified a value that does not degrade performance.

There is absolutely no value in having a wider bandwith than you really 
need.

>> After you gain some experience, you can pretty much tell how much
>> resistance to use for each type of transistor and the kind of circuit
>> used. I recommend using the highest value that won't degrade the
>> performance of the circuit. 
 
> Right, which is my zero-ohm jumper. ;)
 
>> Also remember you may have a slow transistor in this production run.
>> The next batch may be on the hot side. 
 
> Cheers
> 
> Phil Hobbs
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518415

FromPhil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>
Date2018-10-05 10:38 -0400
Message-ID<rYSdnc50g5jD6irGnZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#518402
On 10/4/18 11:21 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/4/18 5:35 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
>>> A zero ohm short may not be the best idea. You have to pay
>   
>>> 1. to install the part.
>   
>>> 2. to remove it when you find a problem. This can damage the pads.
>   
>>> 3. to install a base resistor. This can also damage the pads.
>   
>> You only have to do it on the first article.  Then you change the BOM
>> and birds chirp.
> 
> Then you find you have a problem in the field. You have to rework all the
> units you have shipped. Why not add a suitable base suppression resistor to
> critical circuits in the first place.
>   
>>> When you multiply the costs by the number of transistor involved, it
>>> can mean a substantial amount of money and time lost.
>   
>>> If you install the resistor in the first place, you can eliminate these
>>> costs.
>   
>> And wind up with crap performance needlessly.
>   
> I specified a value that does not degrade performance.

In your circuits, maybe.  I often care very much about fractional 
nanovolts of noise.

> 
> There is absolutely no value in having a wider bandwith than you really
> need.

In an audio amp, very true.  In instruments, not so much.  One of my 
main support headaches is people using the log output of the laser noise 
canceller, and adjusting the feedback bandwidth to set their measurement 
bandwidth.    Causes all sorts of mayhem when the beam power ratios vary 
by order unity at frequencies near the feedback bandwidth.  Running it 
fast fixes that, and it's easy to put an RC on the output if you like.

It's usually best to have lots of bandwidth and then put in a good 
quality filter near the end.  For instance, several of my gizmos use 
THS3091 CFAs as the output stage, configured as a two-pole Sallen-Key 
lowpass, and with a 50-ohm resistor in series with the output.  The amp 
is 100 times faster than some of those circuits need, but it's super 
beefy (and hence student-resistant), and the extra speed keeps the S-K 
rolloff well controlled.

> 
>>> After you gain some experience, you can pretty much tell how much
>>> resistance to use for each type of transistor and the kind of circuit
>>> used. I recommend using the highest value that won't degrade the
>>> performance of the circuit.
>   
>> Right, which is my zero-ohm jumper. ;)
>   
>>> Also remember you may have a slow transistor in this production run.
>>> The next batch may be on the hot side.

Or it might have lower beta, in which case your procedure has the same 
problem.

I generally go for about a factor of 1.5x to 2x more resistance than 
needed to cure the oscillation, and have never had an oscillation 
problem in the field.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518357

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2018-10-04 11:50 -0700
Message-ID<04ocrddpiae33n4nl4pnd4llspimlg180o@4ax.com>
In reply to#518327
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:39:11 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wilson
<9fe142ac@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:00:30 AM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0 
>> 
>> >That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out my 
>> >incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 100 mA 
>> >(driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms). 
>> 
>> >The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a phemt. 
>> 
>> Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower. 
>> 
>> >I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want unpredictable 
>> offsets.
>> 
>> You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let anybody hang a cable on it.
>
>I hope that anyone playing with 42GHz GBW would automatically add a base resistor to kill parasitic oscillations. Even a lowly 2N3904 can go into parasitics with a long base lead.

Or as an emitter follower with the base well bypassed to ground. The
wire bonds inside are nice high-Q inductors.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518378

FromClifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
Date2018-10-05 09:26 +1000
Message-ID<wkxtD.55207$LL1.25705@fx23.iad>
In reply to#518357
On 05/10/18 04:50, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:39:11 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wilson
> <9fe142ac@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:00:30 AM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0
>>>
>>>> That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out my
>>>> incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 100 mA
>>>> (driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms).
>>>
>>>> The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a phemt.
>>>
>>> Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower.
>>>
>>>> I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want unpredictable
>>> offsets.
>>>
>>> You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let anybody hang a cable on it.
>>
>> I hope that anyone playing with 42GHz GBW would automatically add a base resistor to kill parasitic oscillations. Even a lowly 2N3904 can go into parasitics with a long base lead.
> 
> Or as an emitter follower with the base well bypassed to ground. The
> wire bonds inside are nice high-Q inductors.

How does an emitter follower do anything useful if the base is tied to 
ground?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#518383

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com>
Date2018-10-04 17:09 -0700
Message-ID<6radrdlhndgq53euojt6jpr8dqjbq4tcrp@4ax.com>
In reply to#518378
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 09:26:17 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

>On 05/10/18 04:50, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:39:11 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wilson
>> <9fe142ac@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:00:30 AM UTC-4, pcdh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> https://octopart.com/search?q=BFP650&oq=BFP650&start=0
>>>>
>>>>> That would work, as a couple or few emitter followers to fan out my
>>>>> incoming signal. It has decent beta at, say, 50 mA or even 100 mA
>>>>> (driving something like 5 volts into 50 ohms).
>>>>
>>>>> The Vbe offset would be more predictable than the turn-on of a phemt.
>>>>
>>>> Their low drain impedances make pHEMTs very disappointing as followers, unless you bootstrap the drain. The late lamented ATF38148 could have a gain of 0.5 as a follower.
>>>>
>>>>> I'll be timing edges to picoseconds so I don't want unpredictable
>>>> offsets.
>>>>
>>>> You'll need a base resistor to keep it from oscillating. Don't let anybody hang a cable on it.
>>>
>>> I hope that anyone playing with 42GHz GBW would automatically add a base resistor to kill parasitic oscillations. Even a lowly 2N3904 can go into parasitics with a long base lead.
>> 
>> Or as an emitter follower with the base well bypassed to ground. The
>> wire bonds inside are nice high-Q inductors.
>
>How does an emitter follower do anything useful if the base is tied to 
>ground?

I said "bypassed to ground." But an emitter follower can certainly
work, and oscillate, if its base is really grounded.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.electronics.design


csiph-web