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Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

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On 2017-05-16 14:05, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:43:41 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:14:48 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:03:35 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:55:11 PM UTC+10, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 11:10:17 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 12:22:23 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:20:02 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 11:55:25 PM UTC+10, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>   
>>>>> The permafrost will make the greatest contribution, but soil worldwide will be releasing more CO2 (or the equivalent in methane) just due to increased microbial activity with temperature. It ends up being substantial.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps. But over most of the world the methane won't have had the chance to accumulate for the last ten thousand years (perhaps longer if there are chunks of methane ice in the permafrost hanging over from the previous interglacial).
>>>
>>> Microbes produce methane from biomatter in the soil, this is ongoing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanogenesis
>>
>> But when they do it in permafrost, in contact with freezing water, they can lock it up as methane ice which is stable until the climate warms up further. If the methane ice gets buried under more biomatter - as in peat bogs - it can stick around for millions of years.
>>
>> The planet has been cycling between cool - interglacials - and cold - ice ages - for the past few million years. Our enthusiasm for digging up fossil carbon and burning it as fuel has pushed up the atmospheric CO2 content to levels that haven't been seen for 20 million years.
>>
>> The planet hasn't yet warmed up beyond the peak reached in occasional previous interglacials, but it won't take long before we start getting back all the methane that got stored under permafrost during all the previous interglacials.
>>
>> This could be interesting, in the sense of the Chinese curse, "may you live interesting times". It may not kill off all of us, but some kind of population crash can't be ruled out.
>>  
>> Bill Sloman, Sydney
> 
> Apparently carbon locked up in undecomposed biomatter in the permafrost is as great a danger as the methane clathrate. And this accumulates to significant levels over a period of just a few thousand years, it doesn't take millions of years. When the permafrost thaws, the decomposition produces both methane and CO2 depending on the environment. This latest study of the Alaska emissions looks like it proves the dreaded "tipping point" has been reached. This National Snow and Ice Data Center has a lot of information- looks like it was written for children- so even Larkin can understand it. https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/frozenground/methane.html

Another thing he might not grasp is that there is a relatively narrow
band of CO2 concentration which is good for plants. If the concentration
is too high, almost all plants will die off.
Then we have the CO2 uptake capacity vs. temperature. How does that work
out?
Then we have plant habitat. How well do plants deal with higher
temperatures? Will the more chaotic weather play nice with plant habitats?
Small details like that, a lot of small details like that.

So are we going to listen John Larkin's sources, who more often than not
are not climatologists, who if they admit climate change is occuring, do
not think it's human origin. Or do we listen to actual climatologists,
some of which are discretely waving to us to grab our ankles?

/Teo.
-- 
Teodor Väänänen            | Don't meddle in the affairs of wizards,
teostupiditydor@algonet.se | for you are good and crunchy with
Remove stupidity to reply  | ketchup.

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'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-14 06:55 -0700
  Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-14 07:19 -0700
    Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-14 07:22 -0700
      Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-14 20:10 -0700
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 05:55 -0700
          Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-15 07:03 -0700
            Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 09:14 -0700
              Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-15 19:43 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 05:05 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air "Teodor V." <teodor-see-signature@invalid.invalid> - 2017-05-16 15:30 +0200
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 05:55 -0700
  Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 10:10 -0700
    Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-14 12:08 -0700
      Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 13:07 -0700
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-05-14 13:53 -0700
          Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-14 19:52 -0700
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 06:04 -0700
          Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-15 07:07 -0700
            Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 09:27 -0700
              Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 11:15 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 13:10 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-15 19:52 -0700
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 17:55 +0100
          Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-15 11:15 -0700
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 05:27 -0700
          Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 06:56 -0700
            Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-16 07:08 -0700
              Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 08:01 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 08:26 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 09:26 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-16 09:47 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-16 20:13 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-16 20:05 -0700
    Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-05-14 18:53 -0700
      Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 20:05 -0700
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-14 20:28 -0700
        Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 03:36 +0000
          Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 21:00 -0700
            Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-05-15 04:39 +0000
              Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-14 22:08 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-15 01:04 -0700
            Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-15 00:54 -0700
              Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-05-15 07:22 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-15 20:05 -0700
            Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 02:26 -0700
              Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-15 07:10 -0700
                Re: 'We all knew this was coming’: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-15 20:19 -0700

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