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Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer

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  Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2016-07-07 15:18 -0700
    Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-10 21:54 +1000
      Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-10 14:43 -0700
        Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-10 18:05 -0400
          Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-10 18:59 -0700
            Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2016-07-10 20:56 -0700
              Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-10 22:07 -0700
              Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2016-07-11 10:55 -0400
                Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer John Doe <always.look@message.header> - 2016-07-11 15:28 +0000
                  Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-11 08:36 -0700
                    Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2016-07-11 12:07 -0400
                Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-11 20:31 -0400
                  Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-11 17:35 -0700
                    Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-11 20:59 -0400
                      Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2016-07-12 09:24 -0400
                        Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-12 20:05 -0400
                    Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2016-08-27 01:06 -0400
                  Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2016-07-11 23:32 -0400
                Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-07-12 10:13 +0800
                  Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2016-07-12 10:09 -0700
        Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2016-07-12 10:19 -0700
          Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-07-12 13:57 -0500
          Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-12 12:12 -0700
            Re: Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-12 20:08 -0400

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#6001 — Making precision PCBs with Sharpie and 3D printer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh0ubRcTYU

Pretty creative method. Still involves etchant, though...

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#6002

On 8/07/2016 8:18 AM, DaveC wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh0ubRcTYU
>
> Pretty creative method. Still involves etchant, though...
>

In my experience, etching is the easy bit. Getting a good mask is what 
gives trouble, takes time, and is generally frustrating.

Sylvia.

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#6003

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:54:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

>On 8/07/2016 8:18 AM, DaveC wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh0ubRcTYU
>>
>> Pretty creative method. Still involves etchant, though...
>>
>
>In my experience, etching is the easy bit. Getting a good mask is what 
>gives trouble, takes time, and is generally frustrating.
>
>Sylvia.

The entire process is messy and time consuming, and you can't
reasonably do double-sided boards. If your time is worth anything,
order a proper plated-through, solder-masked, 2 or 4 layer board from
a quick-turn proto house, and work on something else until it arrives.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#6004

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:43:35 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:54:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
><sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>
>>On 8/07/2016 8:18 AM, DaveC wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh0ubRcTYU
>>>
>>> Pretty creative method. Still involves etchant, though...
>>>
>>
>>In my experience, etching is the easy bit. Getting a good mask is what 
>>gives trouble, takes time, and is generally frustrating.
>>
>>Sylvia.
>
>The entire process is messy and time consuming, and you can't
>reasonably do double-sided boards. If your time is worth anything,
>order a proper plated-through, solder-masked, 2 or 4 layer board from
>a quick-turn proto house, and work on something else until it arrives.

That's when I make sure my CM has everything they need to do the job
and order any last minute parts that may have fallen through the
cracks (sometimes literally).  

I have three six layer boards (mother, daughter, and a simple
oscillator test board - didn't take two decades to design) going out
Monday or Tuesday.  I'll probably take a trip up to see the CM
Wednesday or Thursday to bring up most of the remainder of the parts.

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#6005

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:05:53 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:43:35 -0700, John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:54:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
>><sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/07/2016 8:18 AM, DaveC wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh0ubRcTYU
>>>>
>>>> Pretty creative method. Still involves etchant, though...
>>>>
>>>
>>>In my experience, etching is the easy bit. Getting a good mask is what 
>>>gives trouble, takes time, and is generally frustrating.
>>>
>>>Sylvia.
>>
>>The entire process is messy and time consuming, and you can't
>>reasonably do double-sided boards. If your time is worth anything,
>>order a proper plated-through, solder-masked, 2 or 4 layer board from
>>a quick-turn proto house, and work on something else until it arrives.
>
>That's when I make sure my CM has everything they need to do the job
>and order any last minute parts that may have fallen through the
>cracks (sometimes literally).  

I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.


>
>I have three six layer boards (mother, daughter, and a simple
>oscillator test board - didn't take two decades to design) going out
>Monday or Tuesday.  I'll probably take a trip up to see the CM
>Wednesday or Thursday to bring up most of the remainder of the parts.

-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#6006

On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:

> I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
> dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.

Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.

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#6007

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 20:56:39 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

>On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>
>> I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>> dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>
>Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.

Sadly, the floor under my workbench is carpeted. That carpet must be
some significant fraction-by-weight of electronic components by now.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#6008

In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
september.org>, not@home.cow says...
> 
> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
> 
> > I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
> > dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
> 
> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.

I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need 
only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually 
loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more 
and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of 
time looking for it.

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#6009

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote: 

> not@home.cow says... 
>> John Larkin writ: 
>> 
>> > I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's 
>> > dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down. 
>> 
>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with 
>> empty bag. 
> 
> I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I 
> need only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't 
> usually loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars 
> or more and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and 
> spend lots of time looking for it. 

Do you use a modern LED headlamp? If not, you should. 

Fenix HL-55. Best thing I have bought in ages. Seems the headband too
frequently needs adjusting, but that's nothing compared to its
usefulness. 

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#6010

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 15:28:11 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

>Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote: 
>
>> not@home.cow says... 
>>> John Larkin writ: 
>>> 
>>> > I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's 
>>> > dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down. 
>>> 
>>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with 
>>> empty bag. 
>> 
>> I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I 
>> need only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't 
>> usually loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars 
>> or more and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and 
>> spend lots of time looking for it. 
>
>Do you use a modern LED headlamp? If not, you should. 
>
>Fenix HL-55. Best thing I have bought in ages. Seems the headband too
>frequently needs adjusting, but that's nothing compared to its
>usefulness. 

Mantis.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Mantis/Bench_Mantis.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Mantis/Mantis2.JPG



-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#6011

In article <b4f7ob9intcd4d1778cvbvbk1g02d1pfbe@4ax.com>, 
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com says...
> 
>
> >
> >Do you use a modern LED headlamp? If not, you should. 
> >
> >Fenix HL-55. Best thing I have bought in ages. Seems the headband too
> >frequently needs adjusting, but that's nothing compared to its
> >usefulness. 
> 
> Mantis.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Mantis/Bench_Mantis.jpg
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Mantis/Mantis2.JPG


I think he is just referring to a light that goes over your head, not a 
magnifying one.

I am sure the Mantis is very nice,but just for my hobby they are out of 
the price range.  I did get an Amscope SE 400 for about  10% of the 
Mantis cost that works well for my hobby.

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#6012

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 10:55:22 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:

>In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
>september.org>, not@home.cow says...
>> 
>> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>> 
>> > I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>> > dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>> 
>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.
>
>I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need 
>only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually 
>loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more 
>and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of 
>time looking for it.

I keep spares of most of the values I use in anti-static bags.  I
never put fewer than a hundred in them.  If one leaves the playing
field, I don't spend a second on it.  I don't want it back because
I'll probably get the one I lost last year, instead.  I don't want
that one.

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#6013

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:31:36 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 10:55:22 -0400, Ralph Mowery
><rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
>>september.org>, not@home.cow says...
>>> 
>>> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>>> 
>>> > I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>>> > dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>>> 
>>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.
>>
>>I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need 
>>only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually 
>>loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more 
>>and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of 
>>time looking for it.
>
>I keep spares of most of the values I use in anti-static bags.  I
>never put fewer than a hundred in them.  If one leaves the playing
>field, I don't spend a second on it.  I don't want it back because
>I'll probably get the one I lost last year, instead.  I don't want
>that one.

It's worse now that many resistors have goofy alphanumeric codes.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#6014

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:35:34 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:31:36 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 10:55:22 -0400, Ralph Mowery
>><rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
>>>september.org>, not@home.cow says...
>>>> 
>>>> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>>>> 
>>>> > I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>>>> > dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>>>> 
>>>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.
>>>
>>>I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need 
>>>only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually 
>>>loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more 
>>>and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of 
>>>time looking for it.
>>
>>I keep spares of most of the values I use in anti-static bags.  I
>>never put fewer than a hundred in them.  If one leaves the playing
>>field, I don't spend a second on it.  I don't want it back because
>>I'll probably get the one I lost last year, instead.  I don't want
>>that one.
>
>It's worse now that many resistors have goofy alphanumeric codes.

Or nothing.

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#6017

On 07/11/2016 08:59 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:35:34 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:31:36 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 10:55:22 -0400, Ralph Mowery
>>> <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
>>>> september.org>, not@home.cow says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>>>>>> dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.
>>>>
>>>> I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need
>>>> only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually
>>>> loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more
>>>> and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of
>>>> time looking for it.
>>>
>>> I keep spares of most of the values I use in anti-static bags.  I
>>> never put fewer than a hundred in them.  If one leaves the playing
>>> field, I don't spend a second on it.  I don't want it back because
>>> I'll probably get the one I lost last year, instead.  I don't want
>>> that one.
>>
>> It's worse now that many resistors have goofy alphanumeric codes.
>
> Or nothing.
>

I've got a pair of Smart Tweezers that pretty much fixes that problem.

$400 last time I checked, but worth it.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

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#6022

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:24:06 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 07/11/2016 08:59 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:35:34 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:31:36 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 10:55:22 -0400, Ralph Mowery
>>>> <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
>>>>> september.org>, not@home.cow says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>>>>>>> dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty bag.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need
>>>>> only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually
>>>>> loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more
>>>>> and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of
>>>>> time looking for it.
>>>>
>>>> I keep spares of most of the values I use in anti-static bags.  I
>>>> never put fewer than a hundred in them.  If one leaves the playing
>>>> field, I don't spend a second on it.  I don't want it back because
>>>> I'll probably get the one I lost last year, instead.  I don't want
>>>> that one.
>>>
>>> It's worse now that many resistors have goofy alphanumeric codes.
>>
>> Or nothing.
>>
>
>I've got a pair of Smart Tweezers that pretty much fixes that problem.
>
>$400 last time I checked, but worth it.
>
I have a pair of them, too, but they don't work very well on 0402s,
which account for >90% of the passives on my boards.  To be a little
more clear, they work to measure the widget but aren't worth a damn
placing them.  Too many motions to use both.  The cleaning service
will get the spillage.  Eventually.

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#6030

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:35:34 -0700, the renowned John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>
>It's worse now that many resistors have goofy alphanumeric codes.

Much better than nothing at all, which seems to be the trend. 8-( 


--sp

-- 
Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition:            http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8

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#6016

In article <ude8ob152pe5m93fm2bi9ghb6uerrsb3kp@4ax.com>, krw@attt.bizz 
says...
> 
>
> 
> I keep spares of most of the values I use in anti-static bags.  I
> never put fewer than a hundred in them.  If one leaves the playing
> field, I don't spend a second on it.  I don't want it back because
> I'll probably get the one I lost last year, instead.  I don't want
> that one.

I bought one of the China component checkers.  Then modified some of the 
normally closed tweezers.  I glued a small piece of printed circuit 
board to the inside of each 'prong' of the tweezer.  Then soldered a 
foot or so of some small wire to them.  Good for holding and checking 
resisors and capacitors of over a few hundred pico farads.

Those $ 15 component testers seem to work very well if the value of the 
device under test is high of enough value the leads don't upset the 
value.

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#6015

Ralph Mowery wrote:

> In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
> september.org>, not@home.cow says...
>> 
>> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>> 
>> > I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>> > dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>> 
>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty
>> bag.
> 
> I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need
> only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually
> loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more
> and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of
> time looking for it.

We call that here the "umbrella effect". If you have an umbrella with you it 
does not rain. 

-- 
Reinhardt

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#6018

On 7/11/2016 7:13 PM, Reinhardt Behm wrote:
> Ralph Mowery wrote:
>
>> In article <0001HW.1D33507700174B6A10BAE03CF@news.eternal-
>> september.org>, not@home.cow says...
>>>
>>> On 10 Jul 2016, John Larkin writ:
>>>
>>>> I always pull a few extra of the smaller surface-mount parts. It's
>>>> dependable that I'll lose a few before I get them soldered down.
>>>
>>> Required SMD tool: vacuum cleaner (hoover to you Empire boys) with empty
>>> bag.
>>
>> I am glad the resistors and capacitors are only a few cents.  If I need
>> only one or several, I always get atleast 10 of them.  Don't usually
>> loose any if I do.  If I don't or the part is several dollars or more
>> and I get just the required ammount I usually drop one and spend lots of
>> time looking for it.
>
> We call that here the "umbrella effect". If you have an umbrella with you it
> does not rain.

Plus most distributors won't sell you less than 10 at a time.

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