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Groups > sci.astro > #57945 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-04-03 12:52 -0400 |
| Last post | 2016-04-15 21:39 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 408 — 15 participants |
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:52 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-03 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-04 15:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-04 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 12:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2016-04-05 03:50 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-05 18:47 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:10 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-08 14:23 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 09:57 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Gothar the Undending, Dreaded by Darkness, Soul Eater and Destroyer of Stars" <Gothar@the.end.of.time> - 2016-04-14 23:59 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:53 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 19:38 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 00:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mandy Liefbowitz <mandyliefbowitz@the.port.side> - 2016-04-14 23:20 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 00:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Gothar the Undending, Dreaded by Darkness, Soul Eater and Destroyer of Stars" <Gothar@the.end.of.time> - 2016-04-15 01:03 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:58 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:24 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Gothar the Undending, Dreaded by Darkness, Soul Eater and Destroyer of Stars" <Gothar@the.end.of.time> - 2016-04-15 00:25 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 19:53 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 23:06 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 19:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 13:04 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 21:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 17:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 21:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-09 13:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 10:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 22:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 04:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:53 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 12:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 14:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 08:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 16:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-11 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:04 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 22:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 21:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 05:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 00:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 13:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 21:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 02:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 21:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 15:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 04:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 22:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:04 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:21 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 22:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 01:33 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 20:44 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 05:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Gothar the Undending, Dreaded by Darkness, Soul Eater and Destroyer of Stars" <Gothar@the.end.of.time> - 2016-04-15 01:21 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:11 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 00:01 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-04-09 09:21 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 10:09 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:31 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:42 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 15:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 14:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 18:17 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 00:37 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 16:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mandy Liefbowitz <mandyliefbowitz@the.port.side> - 2016-04-14 22:56 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-05 17:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:09 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-05 18:54 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 19:57 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-07 08:28 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:43 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 20:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 16:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 23:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 19:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 03:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 22:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 06:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:45 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:08 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 22:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 17:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 04:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 23:31 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 01:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:18 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 22:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:57 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:44 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:09 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 16:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:43 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 01:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 05:49 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:27 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-07 21:40 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:37 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 08:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:53 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:31 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 18:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 03:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 21:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:01 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:53 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 01:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 20:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 04:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 22:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:43 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 17:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 05:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:43 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hpe.com> - 2016-04-11 18:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:09 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-13 15:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 09:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:15 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:25 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 02:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 21:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:46 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 02:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:57 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 20:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 05:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-14 16:46 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:31 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:27 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 02:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 21:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:17 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 16:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 02:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:15 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:18 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 18:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 13:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:21 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:39 +0000
Page 2 of 21 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 21 Next page →
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-18 00:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <acv8hb54l4sherk2398bt6f6vnsffe3vlu@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #58452 |
Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>On 4/17/2016 3:01 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/9/2016 12:20 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/8/2016 3:25 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> silly boy,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the moon and mar have NO AIR, NO WATER, NO FOOD, NOTHING but sand and
>>>>>>>>>> rocks, and high radiation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The key here is the horrendous cost of getting things to the Moon or Mars
>>>>>>>> in the first place and that any equipment used there will likely be a
>>>>>>>> one off custom design that will come at another huge expense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> take O2, how do you extract that from rocks ? What is needed rate of
>>>>>>> production? What does it take ? how much does the O2 plant weigh ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oven. Whatever is needed. Oven. Whatever it needs to.
>>>>>
>>>>> no answer ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I gave you an answer. You just don't like it.
>>>
>>> your mom's microwave oven ?
>>>
>>
>> Good lord, just go look it up for yourself, then.
>
>unresponsive
>
Dipshit.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> try to think it through.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great advice. You should follow it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I dont expect any real answers or thoughts from you, you are an airhead.
>>> an airy-fairy new age pupa,
>>>
>>
>> That's really quite amusing and I'm afraid just shows what a stupid
>> shite you actually are.
>>
>
>unresponsive
>
Dipshit
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> man needs 500 liters of O2 per day
>>>>> there are 10 men up there, 2 are needed to run the O2 plant,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why? It's automated.
>>>>
>>>
>>> how big is your magic O2 plant ? how much molten salt does it have ?
>>>
>>
>> What is your fixation with 'molten salt'? There are electrolytic
>> processes that would use molten salt, but it's not 'used up' so it's
>> not a big deal.
>
>wrong. and again answer the question you evasive twit! what "magic"
>technology are you proposing to extract O2 from your moon rocks ?
>
>you have no clue.
>
You wouldn't know a clue if it was formally introduced to you and wore
a nametag.
>>
>>>
>>> how many tons of rock must it decompose per hour ?
>>>
>>
>> Asked and answered. Martian rocks are largely oxides and are about a
>> third oxygen by weight. So how many tons of oxygen do you think you
>> need per hour? Multiply that by three.
>
>again, no numbers, no math, because it is fiction.
>
I gave you numbers, dipshit. Three tons of rocks gets you one ton of
oxygen.
>
>Make it real. how are you going to decompose moon rocks into O2 ?
>
>Your version.
>
>Answer NOW !
>
Who the fuck do you think died and left you in charge, dipshit?
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and 2 are needed to run the Water plant,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why? It's automated.
>>>>
>>>
>>> how do you get water out of a almost perfect vacuum ?
>>>
>>
>> Uh, you know there's lots of water on Mars, right? It exists as both
>> frozen ice and as liquid brines.
>>
>
>so you are going to have your men on mars hunt for frozen ice ? and
>liquid bribes ?
>
No, dipshit. You find those BEFORE people arrive.
>
>How much O2 and water does that take ?
>
None.
>
>you haven't thought any of this through, Polly.
>
You don't think at all, do you Wog?
>
>How many hours a day can they stay on the surface without getting too
>much radiation exposure ? (hint: 2 hours MAX)
>
You need to shove that hint back up your ass where it belongs. Surface
exposure on Mars is 0.67 mSv per day. What that means is that you can
spend a day, a month, or even a year on the surface and be fine (I'm
using Earth times because that's what the exposure limits are
enumerated in). You could spend 16 or so Earth years continually on
the surface before you'd hit career limits.
So the answer to your question is that they can stay on the surface
continuously.
Here. This is intended for school kids. Maybe you can have someone
explain it to you.
https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/284273main_Radiation_HS_Mod1.pdf
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and 2 are needed to run the N2 plant.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why? It's automated.
>>>>
>>>
>>> where do you get N2 from ?
>>>
>>
>> N2, as has been pointed out to you several times, is not consumed so I
>> don't need to 'get it' from anywhere.
>>
>
>because you cant melt rocks to get N2 dummy.
>
Who said you could, dipshit? Who said you NEEDED TO, dipshit?
As you've been told repeatedly, N2 is not 'used up', so you don't need
to produce a bunch to replenish it.
>>
>>>>
>>>>> so your O2 flow rate is 5,000 liters per day,
>>>>> your N2 flow rate is 15,000 liters per day (assume a 25% O2)
>>>>> and about 7.5 liters of water per day per person
>>>>>
>>>>> so how many tons rocks do you cook per day ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Figure it out. A person needs less than a kilogram of oxygen per day.
>>>> Lunar rocks are typically about 40% oxygen by weight. So given your
>>>> specified crew size (which you didn't bother with before when you
>>>> asked the question) you need to cook about .01 tons of rock per day.
>>>
>>> try again, you are off by 10,000 tones per day. you suck at simple math
>>>
>>
>> Jesus, son, take your bloody shoes off and try again.
>>
>
>you may call me Jesus, and you may worship me now. It is OK.
>
Well, let's look at that a second. Your claim is now that I need 3300
tons of oxygen per day (which is what you'd get out of 10,000 tons or
rock)? Whatever the hell for?
>>
>>>
>>> how do you grind up the rocks ? how much energy does that take ?
>>>
>>
>> We've had pulping mills for centuries.
>
>you havent. you are assuming earth energy available on mars and moon,
>which is lunacy.
>
I'm assuming no such thing, dipshit. I can't be responsible for your
delusions. Oh, and just by the way, solar flux available at the Moon
pretty much is what's available on Earth. It's a bit more because of
the lack of air, but that's quibbling.
>>
>>>
>>> how do you clean the salt ?
>>>
>>
>> What's with you and this fixation with salt and what do you think you
>> need to 'clean' out of it?
>
>Ok, how are you going to decompose your rocks to get O2.
>
>Answer the Question. NOW
>
Piss off, dipshit. NOW
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How much energy is needed to run the rock cooking plant?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What does it matter? You have shitloads available from the Sun.
>>>>
>>>
>>> wrong answer, but it is what I expect from you, and airy-fairy hippie
>>> trippy baboon.
>>>
>>> you got 400 watts from the sun, the water and O2 plants take 400,000 watts.
>>>
>>
>> Which orifice did you pull that power requirement number out of? I've
>> got 400 watts from the Sun PER METER OF PHOTOVOLTAIC CELLS.
>
>nope, 200 max
>
Uh, *YOU* just said 400 watts. Now you're cutting it in half? You
need to pull your dick out so you can count to 'one'?
>
> So I lay
>> out a 1000x1000 meter area of cells. Multiply it out; 1000x1000x0.4
>> gives 400kW, so if that's what you need (and that's a stupidly high
>> number, by the way, unless you need something like a quarter ton of
>> oxygen per day) that's what you do.
>
>so you put out a square mile of solar cells, how much did it cost to do
>that, and now you have to have another man up there cleaning off the
>solar cells all the time, cheaper to put a nuke battery up there.
>
No, I put out a square kilometer of solar cells, not a square mile.
Since the cells are locally produced, 'cost' is sort of irrelevant.
What do you think is getting on the cells that requires them to be
constantly cleaned?
A 'nuke battery' (aka RTG) is a horrible idea. Their power density
sucks. You want real reactors.
>
>>
>>>
>>> you gonna use your D cell battery ? you going to use your generator on
>>> a bike and pedale 400,000 watts ?
>>>
>>
>> Is that how you get your electricity here? In situ solar and (if
>> necessary) imported nuclear reactors is what I'd use on Mars, but what
>> you do is your problem.
>>
>
>Im not going to Mars, no air, no water no food, live in a can 22 hours a
>day to survive the radiation.
>
You're not going because you're an ignorant twat.
>
>But you deserve to go up there.
>
Yes, I do, but that sort of thing is for younger men.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What type of rocks work for O2 that are on the surface ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Almost any of them. Lunar rock is largely oxides of various types.
>>>>
>>>
>>> answer the question you evasive twit. what type of rocks ?
>>>
>>
>> Asked and answered multiple times, you ignorant twat. Why is Mars
>> red?
>
>liar. what type of rocks ? can you google and find out ? why would
>there be oxide rocks of any kind if no air was on mars ?
>
Uh, where do you think a lot of the oxygen on Mars WENT? It didn't
just run down to WalMart and get mugged. It's in the rocks. Why do
you think Mars is red?
>
>or did you forget again and assume earth rocks are on mars ?
>
Jesus, but you're an ignorant twat. Once again, your delusions are
YOURS and I'm not responsible for them.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> where do you get 24 liters of water per day ? (assume a 25% recapture rate)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why is the recapture rate so low? Why does your math not work out?
>>>> Your earlier claim was 10 people times 7.5 liters per day (which is
>>>> high, by the way) which gives a 75 liter per day requirement with 25%
>>>> recapture (around 19 liters) which leaves a 56 liter per day
>>>> requirement. Now that's down to 24 liters for some reason. It's
>>>> simple arithmetic, dude. Keep it straight.
>>>>
>>>
>>> the question is WHERE do you get 24 liters of water per day ? answer
>>> the questions!
>>>
>>
>> There's all sorts of water all over Mars. Listen to the answers!
>
>liar, in any given location there may be up to 4 atoms of water.
>
>it is a stinking vacuum, Polly.
>
You're way too ignorant to be in this conversation. Go learn
something and get back to me, Wog.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are several thousand ppm water in typical lunar rock, but you
>>>> don't need to mess with that. You get the water from ice deposits. At
>>>> the rate you're talking there's plenty.
>>>>
>>>
>>> so the astronoughts have to go out and look for and mine "ice deposits"
>>> ? sure, that is a winner, how many men go out and look for your moon ice
>>> cubes?
>>>
>>
>> No, moron. You locate the ice first. DOH!
>
>no you do it, you say there is water all over mars, where ? got URL ?
>
>or are you just making this stuff up ? (yes polly, you are dreaming
>full time)
>
Here, dipshit.
http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-evidence-that-liquid-water-flows-on-today-s-mars
Google "mars water" and go read the 121,000,000 hits you get.
>>
>>>
>>> air-head.
>>>
>>
>> Dipshit.
>
>twerker
>
ignorant delusional twat.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Biofilm questions: where does the lost water go? will the biofilm cause
>>>>> dammage to the electronics? How much energy is used to keep the
>>>>> Humidity down to below 70% ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Never heard of a dehumidifier? They're all the rage here on Earth.
>>>> Again, how much power doesn't matter because there is shitloads lying
>>>> around for free.
>>>>
>>>
>>> wrong again, go find out what they do for the space station, it is huge
>>> problem.
>>>
>>
>> Wrong again. Gravity makes a lot of problems easier.
>
>google for it Dumbass.
>
Google for it yourself, dumbass.
>
>vacuum of space on mars, moon, between your ears causes lots of problems
>
Yeah, but this ain't one of them.
>>
>>>
>>> you oversimplify everything,
>>>
>>
>> Nope. I simplify it just enough. You, meanwhile, don't think
>> anything can be done that hasn't been done and that a lot of things
>> that HAVE been done cannot be done.
>
>non responsive
>
non sequitur
>
>>
>>>
>>> you should voulenteer for moon or mars and go there for 3 years.
>>>
>>
>> You should learn to spell.
>
>they need Engrlish teachers on Mars to find ice chips and suck the O2
>out of rocks.
>
They'd be better at almost anything than you apparently are.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> how do you reprocess the salt bath used for cooking the rocks ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Uh, the what? Think 'oven', not 'crock pot'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you have no idea how to cook rocks to get O2, you are a simple parrot
>>> with no brain at all
>>>
>>
>> Lots of people have already done lots of research about this. I'd
>> give you cites to some, but I think you're too stupid to read.
>
>liar, you have no cites.
>
dipshit, you read no cites.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What rocks do you cook to get N2 ???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any of them. Content is fairly low (on the order of 10 ppm).
>>>>
>>>
>>> wrong, answer the question. what rocks do you cook to get N2 ?
>>>
>>
>> Asked and answered. You not liking the answer doesn't make it
>> invalid.
>
>liar, again you do not know, you are making stuff up.
>
Again, I'm not responsible for your delusions. That's all you.
>
>>
>>>
>>> gonna look for SiN ?? another mining adventure for your astronuts.
>>>
>>
>> Which part of 'any of them' and 'nitrogen isn't consumed so does not
>> have to be replenished' is it that's confusing you?
>
>of course it is consumed, all gases in space vehicles lose gas, but you
>dont know that. or much of anything else, right Polly ? SwAwKK !
>
Nitrogen is a big fucking molecule, you ignorant twat. At normal
pressures you'd lose practically none over a span of years. Where do
you think it goes?
Hint: ISS requires some make up N2, but only because the docking
adapters lose it. That's not really a problem for a settlement.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> now, where do you get the N2 ? not from rocks...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why not? Does Google not work on your machine, either?
>>>>>
>>>>> you cannot find any common rocks with N in them, right ?
>>>>>
>>>>> you have not thought this through have you?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nitrogen isn't consumed the way oxygen is, so you don't need to
>>>> produce it at the rates you claim. In fact, your whole atmospheric
>>>> calculation is wonky.
>>>>
>>>
>>> where is yours ? oh, you dont have any. Polly want a thought ?
>>>
>>
>> Oh, I see. I note that YOU are fucked up and that's my fault? Yeah,
>> sure.
>
>your projecting again, nothing from you crank. as expected.
>
>wild clames, no thought behind any of them.
>
Wild clams? There's clams on Mars?
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> go look on the NASA site, you wont see answers to the hard problems
>>>>> either, although there are lots of studies on these issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Radiation! requires men on either moon or mars to live below ground 20
>>>>> feet, and only go to surface 5% of the time. 95% of the time they must
>>>>> be in the underground shelter, large tin can, to keep the radiation from
>>>>> making them all go blind.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cite for your preceding claims?
>>>>
>>>
>>> NASA web site.
>>>
>>
>> Not a cite. Try again, dipshit. Point to the page.
>
>here you go;
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0e9cPB08Y
>
So NOT the NASA web site, then. Liar. And nothing to do with your
claim, then. Liar.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what is the rate of water you can get from the vaccuum of moon/mars
>>>>>>> surface ? 100 grams per day ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As much as you need. Both have lots of ice deposits
>>>>>
>>>>> dream on, tell your moon men to go suck on ice cubes at the poles.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesus, but you're a stupid troll. Perhaps you should pull your head
>>>> out of the Chimp's ass? I assume it's up his, because you don't seem
>>>> able to find your own ass with both hands.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you give in to insulting, because I win, you cannot do the math at all,
>>> you just an airhead parrot.
>>>
>>
>> Irony. It's not at all like goldy or silvery.
>
>Airhead Polly Parrot crank. No science at all.
>
Thanks for validating my opinion, dipshit.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mandy Liefbowitz <mandyliefbowitz@the.port.side> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-14 23:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <3m40hb1vg3ridn0js8li6s0hpcsmapi7bi@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #58051 |
On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:25:45 -0700, Fred J. McCall
<fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>On 4/7/2016 1:51 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> In sci.physics Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <ne1iqr$mb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, invalid@invalid.com says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/5/2016 6:14 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and
>>>>>>>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the
>>>>>> skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best
>>>>>> technology available at the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> silly boy,
>>>>>
>>>>> the moon and mar have NO AIR, NO WATER, NO FOOD, NOTHING but sand and
>>>>> rocks, and high radiation.
>>>>
>>>> Both the moon and Mars have water. Mars has a very thin atmosphere of
>>>> CO2. Other chemicals, such as oxygen on the moon, can be extracted from
>>>> the local "soil". No, there are no animals or plants to eat, but the
>>>> raw materials are definitely there to make them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are no raw materials off the Earth to make Jello.
>>>
>>> Sure you can theoretically do all that, all it takes is very large, very
>>> sophisticated, very heavy, very expensive, and very expensive to transport
>>> equipment along with a very expensive power system to make it all work.
>>>
>>> The key here is the horrendous cost of getting things to the Moon or Mars
>>> in the first place and that any equipment used there will likely be a
>>> one off custom design that will come at another huge expense.
>>>
>>
>>take O2, how do you extract that from rocks ? What is needed rate of
>>production? What does it take ? how much does the O2 plant weigh ?
>>
>
>Oven. Whatever is needed. Oven. Whatever it needs to.
One obtains O2, and anything else one needs, from the environment. In
a lunar colony that would stretch from the lunar core to the frozen
zone of comets some distance from Sol and include the Earth.
It would also include such places as Ceres, Vesta, Ida, Eros and
Mercury. The only place it may *not* include is Venus. Venus is
utterly useless.
Mostly. It would make a nice garbage dump.
>
>>
>>now, where do you get the N2 ? not from rocks...
Some rocks do have nitrates in them. Even if not, landing a ton of
frozen nitrogen on the lunar surface is little if any more difficult
than landing a ton of humans, bulldozers, RTG's and other kit. Earth
has rather a lot of nitrogen to spare, certainly more than a ton.
Once nitrogen is found, however it is found, binding it to hydrogen
isn't difficult, that's been done for many decades. Once ammonia is
made, feeding it to plants is rather simple. Even farmers can manage
that trick. They've been doing it for quite a while, now.
If Earth gets fussy and needy and terribly stupid, as Earth's
politicians have a great tendency to do, one cometary fragment would
supply sufficient nitrogen to cover the Moon in forest.
It is a vast cosmos out there and it is stuffed with stuff that would
come in handy to an expanding civilisation. The great shame is that
humans will never have one of those.
>>
>
>Why not? Does Google not work on your machine, either?
>
>>
>>what is the rate of water you can get from the vaccuum of moon/mars
>>surface ? 100 grams per day ?
>>
>
>As much as you need. Both have lots of ice deposits
Even if not, landing a comet onto the lunar surface is not difficult.
It just takes a bit of time and the willingness to waste some of the
body as reaction mass. Whether the landing is hard or soft depends on
the then currently available recovery technologies. Personally, I'd
prefer a very wasteful soft landing. I've wanted to see that since I
read "The Martian Way" many years ago.
Landing a cometary fragment "as the gods and Lt. Heinlein intended"
would be ever so very cool.
And the colonists could sell the videos to movie makers on Earth. It
would be a *gorgeous* SFX.
Ten years, or less, and the Moon could have *lakes*.
It's such a shame that humans will never do any of this.
M.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 00:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #57962 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote: >>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com> >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> >>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>> > For your reference, records indicate that >>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote: >>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy becomes >>>> >> > operational: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just $10 >>>> >> > billion. >>>> >> > What are we waiting for? >>>> >> >>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose? >>>> > >>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a >>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that >>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like >>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035. >>>> > >>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen >>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting. >>>> > >>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I >>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and >>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a >>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource >>>> > to have. >>>> >>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and >>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. .... >>> >>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland? >>> >>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the >>> Winter is not likely. >>> >>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter >>> they would probably not have survived long. >>> >>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical >>> colonies. >>> >> >>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat. >> > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > bullshit. I never said anything like that. However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and repair parts for high tech equipment. For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such manufacturing could be established in the colonies. In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. >> > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > technology available at the time. And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates back to at least the 10th Century. And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans appeared. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ne1r84$9eo$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57966 |
Some experiments suggest we might be able to grow food on Mars if we add the organics commonly found in Earth soils: Scientists just grew vegetables in ‘Martian’ soil — but there’s a catch. By Rachel Feltman March 9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/03/09/scientists-just-grew-vegetables-in-martian-soil-but-theres-a-catch/ But Mars Curiosity, finally, has shown Mars soils do contain organics. Then we may be able to produce the needed organics from those already there. Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wrote in message news:nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com... In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote: >>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com> >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> >>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>> > For your reference, records indicate that >>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy >>>> >> > becomes >>>> >> > operational: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just >>>> >> > $10 >>>> >> > billion. >>>> >> > What are we waiting for? >>>> >> >>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose? >>>> > >>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a >>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that >>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like >>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035. >>>> > >>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen >>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting. >>>> > >>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I >>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and >>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a >>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource >>>> > to have. >>>> >>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and >>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. .... >>> >>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland? >>> >>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the >>> Winter is not likely. >>> >>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter >>> they would probably not have survived long. >>> >>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical >>> colonies. >>> >> >>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat. >> > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > bullshit. I never said anything like that. However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and repair parts for high tech equipment. For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such manufacturing could be established in the colonies. In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. >> > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > technology available at the time. And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates back to at least the 10th Century. And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans appeared. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 03:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tucetc-5hd.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #57970 |
In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote: > > Some experiments suggest we might be able to grow food on Mars if we add the > organics commonly found in Earth soils: And nitrogen for the air, nitrates for the soil and water and put them under a heated pressure dome. As long as they are plants that don't require a lot of sunlight, in which case you have to add grow lights. Don't forget the pumps to keep the dome pressurized and the huge power source for the pumps and possible grow lights. Of course, you will need most of that stuff anyway, except for the nitrogen and nitrates, to keep humans alive. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | "Gothar the Undending, Dreaded by Darkness, Soul Eater and Destroyer of Stars" <Gothar@the.end.of.time> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-15 01:03 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <uo90hb5jiptc0lp953775iat2c2qn6gdts@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #57971 |
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:38:37 -0000, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Some experiments suggest we might be able to grow food on Mars if we add the
>> organics commonly found in Earth soils:
>
>And nitrogen for the air, nitrates for the soil and water and put them
>under a heated pressure dome.
Why?
Plants can grow on Mars outside of human technology. All they need is
a little GM, a bit of hybridisation and *FARMING* and plants will grow
wild.
Greening Mars is easy.
Greening Venus would take more effort.
Greening Luna would be almost effortless, once a vacuum-resistant
cactoid was developed.
Seed the soils with nutrients, adapt plants to the local conditions
and step back.
No, the long lunar nights, and the cold of Mars and Moon when not in
direct sunlight would no more be a problem than is Winter in Europe.
All it takes is a little help from humans and plants could happily
wait out the cold, dark nights and recover at dawn.
And plants don't give a toss about radiation or meteorites.
Indeed, both would be beneficial to the species in the long term.
>
>As long as they are plants that don't require a lot of sunlight, in which
>case you have to add grow lights.
Why?
Plants grow more slowly with low light levels but they do grow. All
the colonists need to do is plant two acres of food where Earthly
farms would only have needed one. *Farming* wouldn't change it would
only need larger farms.
If an acre could supply a human on Earth, it would only take a
hundred to support the same human out by Saturn.
Try, by the time one gets past Saturn the numbers are starting to get
ridiculous but by the time vast numbers of what once were humans are
living out that way they would certainly know this and have formulated
solutions.
You are, as little minds often do, re-inventing the same bogeymen the
evil forces of darkness use to frighten the children in our
parliaments.
It is so very sad that people can still think in so limited and petty
a fashion.
>
>Don't forget the pumps to keep the dome pressurized and the huge power
>source for the pumps and possible grow lights.
Small thinking from limited minds. These issues were considered and
disposed of in the 1950's, over *SIXTY* *YEARS* *AGO*.
Three generations of Man and more and you are still spouting the same
idiocies of those who told Wilbur and Orville their contraption would
never fly and Stephenson that travelling at more than the speed of a
running horse would suffocate people.
*Learn* something. Go out and find a part of the library and read
some books.
Read some research papers by O'Neill and others.
Hell, read some SF. Most of it is utter shite but some authors have
done their research and use their engineering, physics and other
degrees to tell tales of wonder.
Try expanding your horizon instead of cramping those of everyone else
with your tiny, petty, little world view.
>
>Of course, you will need most of that stuff anyway, except for the nitrogen
>and nitrates, to keep humans alive.
"The essential difference between the pro- and anti- WRT space travel
is that those who believe in it are supporting the notion that Earth
is Mankind's cradle, and those who do not are supporting the notion
that the Earth is Mankind's tomb."
Rusty the bookman
Religions see the Earth as a filter, nothing more than a sieve to
separate out the good bits of soul-stuff from the rubbish. They see
the function of Earth as being no more than a handkerchief.
Most religions see the ultimate fate of Earth and all living on her
as ending either in a single great conflagration or in everlasting
war.
Most politics is even less sophisticated and far more childish.
The Dream Of Stars saw Earth as the cradle, the seeding ground for a
vast, eternal, ubiquitously cosmic civilisation of many species of
Sons Of Man.
The Dream was beautiful
It is over.
Thanks to you and your like.
Congratulations.
M.
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| From | "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-16 11:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <netn8l$q6q$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57970 |
There is also this: Chinese Use Space Radiation to Mutate Food Crops. http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-hazards/radiation/chinese-space-radiation-mutate-food-crops/ Six foot cucumbers. Yum! Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Robert Clark" wrote in message news:ne1r84$9eo$2@dont-email.me... Some experiments suggest we might be able to grow food on Mars if we add the organics commonly found in Earth soils: Scientists just grew vegetables in ‘Martian’ soil — but there’s a catch. By Rachel Feltman March 9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/03/09/scientists-just-grew-vegetables-in-martian-soil-but-theres-a-catch/ But Mars Curiosity, finally, has shown Mars soils do contain organics. Then we may be able to produce the needed organics from those already there. Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wrote in message news:nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com... In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote: >>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com> >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> >>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>> > For your reference, records indicate that >>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy >>>> >> > becomes >>>> >> > operational: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just >>>> >> > $10 >>>> >> > billion. >>>> >> > What are we waiting for? >>>> >> >>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose? >>>> > >>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a >>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that >>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like >>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035. >>>> > >>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen >>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting. >>>> > >>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I >>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and >>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a >>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource >>>> > to have. >>>> >>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and >>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. .... >>> >>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland? >>> >>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the >>> Winter is not likely. >>> >>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter >>> they would probably not have survived long. >>> >>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical >>> colonies. >>> >> >>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat. >> > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > bullshit. I never said anything like that. However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and repair parts for high tech equipment. For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such manufacturing could be established in the colonies. In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. >> > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > technology available at the time. And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates back to at least the 10th Century. And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans appeared. -- Jim Pennino --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-16 16:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <j55auc-2dk.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #58412 |
In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote: > There is also this: > > Chinese Use Space Radiation to Mutate Food Crops. > http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-hazards/radiation/chinese-space-radiation-mutate-food-crops/ > > Six foot cucumbers. Yum! > > Bob Clark Given all the hoopla over GMO, I'm sure this would be well received... -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 00:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <l4d9gbd9lgupq29j4muavomosib6gecl06@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #57966 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote:
>>>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>>>>> > For your reference, records indicate that
>>>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy becomes
>>>>> >> > operational:
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just $10
>>>>> >> > billion.
>>>>> >> > What are we waiting for?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a
>>>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that
>>>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like
>>>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen
>>>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I
>>>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and
>>>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a
>>>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource
>>>>> > to have.
>>>>>
>>>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and
>>>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. ....
>>>>
>>>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland?
>>>>
>>>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the
>>>> Winter is not likely.
>>>>
>>>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter
>>>> they would probably not have survived long.
>>>>
>>>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical
>>>> colonies.
>>>>
>>>
>>>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat.
>>>
>>
>> Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to
>> disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily
>> successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be
>> bullshit.
>>
>
>I never said anything like that.
>
Of course you did.
>
>However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and
>repair parts for high tech equipment.
>
Lots of that last one so that they could do those first three. Just
like what a modern colony would require.
>
>For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such
>manufacturing could be established in the colonies.
>
You mean that 'high tech equipment. That wasn't 'luxuries' and
colonies that didn't get it tended to fail.
>
>In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things
>like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber.
>
Mostly Spanish and French colonies were like that. There's a reason
why those tended to fail and North American is largely derived from
English colonies which didn't behave that way.
Pleased to see that Jimp the Chimp hasn't changed over the years....
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 06:24 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.316fff733ac66c419899a8@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #57966 |
In article <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com says... > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > > bullshit. > > I never said anything like that. > > However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and > repair parts for high tech equipment. Water is available on both the moon and Mars at at least one of the poles on each. Oxygen is also available on both the moon and Mars; it just needs to be extracted. Food can therefore be grown. Repair parts for high tech equipment is exactly the sort of thing that Fred is talking about when he says "support". For early earth colonies, things which are difficult to manufacture locally, like anything made of metal, had to be shipped in, unless there was a readily available source of metal at the colony and all of the tools to smelt and then process and work with it. > For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such > manufacturing could be established in the colonies. > > In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things > like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. > Agreed that this pattern would often continue with even well established colonies. The colony would mostly ship back raw materials, or goods easily manufactured locally, and the "old world" would send the colony finished "hard" goods. > There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the > shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. Depends. If the fuel is largely made locally (on the moon or Mars), the cost is local too. It may be more difficult to extract, but the supply (the entire planet or moon) versus demand (a fledgling colony) would be quite favorable. > >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century > >>technology to survive. > >> > > > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > > technology available at the time. > > And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates > back to at least the 10th Century. Most certainly, but even that early tech (e.g. metal knives, axes, and etc) would be quite difficult to manufacture at many early colonies which may lack readily available raw materials (e.g. iron ore right on the surface). > And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established > were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans > appeared. "Just fine" is a stretch, depending on the technological level of the indigenous populations. (Primitive) technologies like farming and domestication and selective breeding of animals *greatly* increased the potential population density of even indigenous populations. Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 19:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tgnitc-mir.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #58001 |
In sci.physics Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote: > In article <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com > says... >> > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to >> > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily >> > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be >> > bullshit. >> >> I never said anything like that. >> >> However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and >> repair parts for high tech equipment. > > Water is available on both the moon and Mars at at least one of the > poles on each. Oxygen is also available on both the moon and Mars; it > just needs to be extracted. Food can therefore be grown. Sure, all this is theoretically posible at a horrendous cost that no one will ever want to finance. > Repair parts for high tech equipment is exactly the sort of thing that > Fred is talking about when he says "support". For early earth colonies, > things which are difficult to manufacture locally, like anything made of > metal, had to be shipped in, unless there was a readily available source > of metal at the colony and all of the tools to smelt and then process > and work with it. Repair parts take more than metal. Concider all the bits and pieces needed to make something as simple as a relay to control a blower motor. You need several different kinds of metal and alloys as well as wire and insulators. >> For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such >> manufacturing could be established in the colonies. >> >> In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things >> like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. >> > > Agreed that this pattern would often continue with even well established > colonies. The colony would mostly ship back raw materials, or goods > easily manufactured locally, and the "old world" would send the colony > finished "hard" goods. > >> There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the >> shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. > > Depends. If the fuel is largely made locally (on the moon or Mars), the > cost is local too. It may be more difficult to extract, but the supply > (the entire planet or moon) versus demand (a fledgling colony) would be > quite favorable. Cost is cost no matter where it comes from and again, there is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost. >> >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >> >>technology to survive. >> >> >> > >> > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the >> > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best >> > technology available at the time. >> >> And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates >> back to at least the 10th Century. > > Most certainly, but even that early tech (e.g. metal knives, axes, and > etc) would be quite difficult to manufacture at many early colonies > which may lack readily available raw materials (e.g. iron ore right on > the surface). Totally misses the point; the colonies could buy such things until local production was establishe with things like timber, fur, and spices. >> And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established >> were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans >> appeared. > > "Just fine" is a stretch, depending on the technological level of the > indigenous populations. (Primitive) technologies like farming and > domestication and selective breeding of animals *greatly* increased the > potential population density of even indigenous populations. Point missed yet again. The indigenous populations were able to live, in some cases for thousands of years, without any resupply from Europe. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | "Gothar the Undending, Dreaded by Darkness, Soul Eater and Destroyer of Stars" <Gothar@the.end.of.time> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-15 00:25 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <k880hbpm62acgpf9um8lu4r4v8u1ifcd2d@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #57966 |
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:28:39 -0000, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
<snipped>
>
>There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the
>shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth.
Information.
Movies sell. Even movies about super-beings, fantasy lands and
schools full of obnoxious children make many, many dollars.
Music sells. Books sell. Research products sell lots.
Hollywood spends milliards of dollars pretending humans are having
adventures in off-Earth environments. The SFX budgets are huge. Any
thriving lunar or Martin colony could do better, more realistic SFX
(because they would be *real*) far cheaper.
And SF movies are only a tiny sliver of the possibilities. There
would have been movie, book and music genres no one had ever dreamed
of.
No?
How many people wrote Western novels before the USAlien colonies
sprung up?
How many SF writers in Europe even *imagined* gunslingers, cowboys
and Calamity Jane's?
Extrapolate to thousands of colonies featuring many sub-species of
Man on and in many worlds. The possibilities for intercultural
cross-fertilisation would have been staggering and beautiful.
To the Europeans of the 18th Century, the Americans were a New Breed
Of Man. Their culture was, and indeed still is in many ways, utterly
alien and interesting and often fun and entertaining.
Think of the effect that thousands of USAlias would have had.
And what we would have discovered with so many aliens.
Barren?
Off world would have been the most fertile part of human civilisation
ever created.
It would have been so beautiful.
Now, ignore the vast economy of information in its many forms and
look at what a successful lunar colony could send to Earth in the form
of stuff: refined metals to enable the Terrans to close their mines
and to cease polluting their living world (no, Greenpeace would not
have any reason to picket a lunar mining operation, the Loonies would
not be polluting anything *living*), drugs, food, new substances made
possible by lunar or off-Moon environments. All of hose could be
dropped onto Earth in large lumps quite gently.
You think not? Meteorites land on this planet all day, every day and
many are intact. Shape a meteor aerodynamically and it could land in
the Atlantic safely and softly.
Shape it efficiently enough and one could pack hens eggs in it and
deliver them intact. It is only engineering and we have *loads* of
able engineers.
>
>>>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century
>>>technology to survive.
>>>
>>
>> Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the
>> skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best
>> technology available at the time.
>
>And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates
>back to at least the 10th Century.
>
>And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established
>were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans
>appeared.
True, but the Europeans did not have the skills or knowledge
necessary to adapt and their social structures and strictures,
including their hierarchical control of knowledge and information and
the lack of the ability to apply innovative thinking, hindered their
efforts considerably.
That should not be the case with Martians and Lunar colonists.
Though, of course, knowing humans and their endless stupidities, it
may well have been had there ever been such things.
It's a shame we'll never know.
M.
>
>
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 19:53 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <dmj8haFnrsnU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57959 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >technology to survive. Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of the Pacific islands. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 03:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q5detc-5hd.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #57968 |
In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. > > Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of > the Pacific islands. Greenland has been populated to varying degrees for over 4,000 years. All but the smallest Pacific islands were populated by people with Stone Age technology. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 23:06 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <dmjjq0Fqd26U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57972 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: >> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> >>>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>>technology to survive. >> >> Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of >> the Pacific islands. > >Greenland has been populated to varying degrees for over 4,000 years. But the Viking colony failed. >All but the smallest Pacific islands were populated by people with Stone >Age technology. And a fair number of those colonies failed. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 18:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <dnvftc-moi.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #57973 |
In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>>>technology to survive. >>> >>> Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of >>> the Pacific islands. >> >>Greenland has been populated to varying degrees for over 4,000 years. > > But the Viking colony failed. Which one over the over 4,000 years of habitation? >>All but the smallest Pacific islands were populated by people with Stone >>Age technology. > > And a fair number of those colonies failed. No colony on Earth ever failed for lack of oxygen. Very few failed for lack of water. A fair number in less warm climates failed for lack of storing food for the winter. A few failed due to hostile indigenous people. All this is irrelevant. Attempting to compare any colony on the Earth to a colony off the Earth is starry eyed nonsense. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 12:34 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jnnagbhj5de3chapk06jgrn50te0tlseu9@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #57979 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
>No colony on Earth ever failed for lack of oxygen.
>
>Very few failed for lack of water.
>
>A fair number in less warm climates failed for lack of storing food for
>the winter.
>
>A few failed due to hostile indigenous people.
>
So now you care what you die from? We've found water both on the Moon
and on Mars. Oxygen isn't that difficult a problem, either, given an
oven to bake it out of rocks.
>
>All this is irrelevant.
>
>Attempting to compare any colony on the Earth to a colony off the Earth
>is starry eyed nonsense.
>
Colonies always need supply and support initially. Colonies off the
Earth will be no different.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 19:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ne6bpd$k90$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #57982 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > Colonies always need supply and support initially. Colonies off the > Earth will be no different. The main problem I see for space coloies is the complexity of the technology that is needed for survival, if spare parts cannot be imported. Take a simple O-ring used as a seal as as an example. Currently, this is made from an elastomer. If it needs to withstand oil, you will probably need NBR, a rubber made from 1-3-Butadiene and Acrylonitrile. So, you need 1-3-Butadiene. You can get that from a C4 stream coming from a steam cracker, which needs a hydrocarbon feedstock and is an enormously complex chemical plant, requiring catalysts and dozens of distillation columns. To separate it from the other C4 products, you usually use a sulfuric acid extraction. A steam cracker also produces dozens of other products, which you will have to dispose of (wasteful) or use (for what?) Hmm... maybe not that, dehydrogenation of n-Butane may be better. Dehydrogenation catalyst needed, typically Platinum. To get n-Butane, you need a steam cracker. Or maybe dehydrogenate Ethanol (a catalytic reaction, of course). OK, let's assume we have Butadiene. Next, we need acrylonitrile, which is made from Propylene and Ammonia. Propylene you get from that steam cracker (see above). Ammonia manufacture is a high-pressure process requiring nitrogen and hydrogen. Nitrogen on the Moon will be hard to get, on Mars it could be done. Because NBR is made by emulsion polymerization, you need emulsifiers (and water). Emulsifiers are basically soap, so please set up your soap factory somewhere. Now you've got the basic polymer, please also set up your plants for making all the additives which make it into a usable rubber. And set up the plants for making the catalysts that the different processes above require. You can't really use the latex produced in the polymerizaion, so please use your ready-made plant for precipitation and washing of the latex and drying (which could involve both a screw and a dryer). Think of a way to deal with the huge amount of waste water this will generate, and don't forget the Polyethylene film to wrap it in. Now you've got your rubber bale, but it is not yet an O-Ring. You need to compound and vulcanize it. Just grabbing a random recipe from the net, please also have ready your Zinc Oxide, Magnesium oxide, Stearic acid, Styrenated Phenol, Benzothiazol Disulfide (an accelerator), Tetramethyl Thiuram Disulfide (another accelerator), Carbon Black, Sulfur and Dioctyl phtalate. Also put some old motor oil in, and Add a few anti-aging and anti-oxydizing chemicals while you're at it. And this is just to make one simple everyday part that you could order for a few cents on Earth. So, is there a way around this? You can try to restrict yourself to the materials that you really, really need. This will mean that your solutions will be much worse than what you could get on Earth by just ordering the products you needed. I am not sure that this will be easy given the harshness of your environment, where your solutions should be good if you want to survive. So, a self-sufficient space colony would have to be quite large to support something like our technological base.
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 13:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <p4fdgbd35tfptkdmt71p337b7klalq3khc@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #58012 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> Colonies always need supply and support initially. Colonies off the
>> Earth will be no different.
>
>The main problem I see for space coloies is the complexity of the
>technology that is needed for survival, if spare parts cannot be
>imported.
>
Baby steps, Tom. Baby steps.
>
>Take a simple O-ring used as a seal as as an example.
>
>Currently, this is made from an elastomer. If it needs to
>withstand oil, you will probably need NBR, a rubber made from
>1-3-Butadiene and Acrylonitrile.
>
>So, you need 1-3-Butadiene.
>
<snip petrochemical description>
Or instead of cracking down complex hydrocarbons you don't have, you
build up what you need out of the pieces. Please read up on in situ
resource utilization.
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 21:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ne6i6a$nua$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #58017 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >>Take a simple O-ring used as a seal as as an example. >> >>Currently, this is made from an elastomer. If it needs to >>withstand oil, you will probably need NBR, a rubber made from >>1-3-Butadiene and Acrylonitrile. >> >>So, you need 1-3-Butadiene. ><snip petrochemical description> > > Or instead of cracking down complex hydrocarbons you don't have, you > build up what you need out of the pieces. Please read up on in situ > resource utilization. What in situ resources could I use on the Moon (or Mars) to make an O-ring capable of withstanding oil?
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