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Bark damage on lemon tree

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  Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-19 19:39 +0000
    Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-19 16:03 -0400
      Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-20 01:11 +0000
        Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-20 09:55 -0400
      Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2024-03-20 15:13 +0000
    Re: Bark damage on lemon tree "David E. Ross" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2024-03-19 14:18 -0700
      Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-20 01:23 +0000
        Re: Bark damage on lemon tree songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-03-20 00:31 -0400
          Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2024-03-19 21:50 -0700
            Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-20 17:14 +0000
              Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-20 14:33 -0400
                Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-20 19:40 +0000
                  Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-20 16:52 -0400
                  Re: Bark damage on lemon tree songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-03-20 20:14 -0400
                    Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-23 18:38 +0000
                      Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-23 14:55 -0400
                        Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-24 05:17 +0000
                          Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-24 08:21 -0400
                            Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-03-24 17:16 +0000
      Re: Bark damage on lemon tree "David E. Ross" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2024-03-20 16:45 -0700
        Re: Bark damage on lemon tree <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2024-04-03 02:12 +0000
          Re: Bark damage on lemon tree Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> - 2024-04-03 08:31 -0400
          Re: Bark damage on lemon tree "cshenk" <cshenk@virginia-beach.net> - 2024-04-03 14:57 +0000

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#32632 — Bark damage on lemon tree

Significant amount of bark have been stripped from a mature lemon
tree, apparently in the last several hours. Both squirrels and rats
are abundant in the area, but in sixteen years I've never seen the
lemon tree damaged at all. I've observed squirrels feeding on mulberry
buds each spring, but they quit once the trees leaf out and haven't
done serious damage.

The lemon tree is a different story; large areas of bark are gone, maybe
20% of the main stem surface area. Trunk seems to be left alone, foliage
hasn't been touched. One major limb is entirely debarked, all seemingly
overnight. 

I'm suspecting squirrels primarily, but roof rats are present also. 
Are there any other likely suspects, and any potential control measures?
The tree is in a small back yard surrounded by larger trees, the house
and fences. Denying jump access will be very difficult.  

If anybody's got ideas please share them. 

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

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#32633

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:39:15 -0000 (UTC)
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

>Significant amount of bark have been stripped from a mature lemon
>tree, apparently in the last several hours. Both squirrels and rats
>are abundant in the area, but in sixteen years I've never seen the
>lemon tree damaged at all. I've observed squirrels feeding on mulberry
>buds each spring, but they quit once the trees leaf out and haven't
>done serious damage.
>
>The lemon tree is a different story; large areas of bark are gone, maybe
>20% of the main stem surface area. Trunk seems to be left alone, foliage
>hasn't been touched. One major limb is entirely debarked, all seemingly
>overnight. 
>
>I'm suspecting squirrels primarily, but roof rats are present also. 
>Are there any other likely suspects, and any potential control measures?
>The tree is in a small back yard surrounded by larger trees, the house
>and fences. Denying jump access will be very difficult.  
>
>If anybody's got ideas please share them. 
>
>Thanks for reading,
>
>bob prohaska
>
>

Gray squirrels are known for this but mainly in the UK. Do you have any
Porcupines around? See:

https://www.google.com/search?q=porcupine+bark+damage

-- 
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids  MI

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#32635

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:39:15 -0000 (UTC)
> <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
> 
>>
>>I'm suspecting squirrels primarily, but roof rats are present also. 
>>Are there any other likely suspects, and any potential control measures?
>>The tree is in a small back yard surrounded by larger trees, the house
>>and fences. Denying jump access will be very difficult.  
> 
> Gray squirrels are known for this but mainly in the UK. Do you have any
> Porcupines around? See:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=porcupine+bark+damage
> 
Well, I was hoping for out of the box ideas, and you scored big 8-)
The images of damage shown in the photos don't match the damage I
see very well (photos show short, circumferential chewing, mine 
is along the branch and only partway around), but that might be
a matter of chance and tree shape.


No idea if there are porcupines in the southern Sacramento Valley.
It looks like they're found in the Sierras to the east, so it isn't
absurd to think they might be here, especially if an interested 
human brought one in as a prickly pet. Folks plant cactus here 8-)

I'll try to find out if porcupines have been seen; I think it's
very unlikely but they'd do well if introduced.  

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

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#32639

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 01:11:45 -0000 (UTC)
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

<snip>
>I'll try to find out if porcupines have been seen; I think it's
>very unlikely but they'd do well if introduced.  

Around my area the number one culprit would be the Cottontail Rabbit.
Especially when and where there is snow cover. I didn't mention it
earlier because I felt it was too obvious and didn't know if you had
them about. If you were in an area that got hit with all the recent snow
and have rabbits... that's your likely culprit. Especially if the snow
depth would have enabled them to reach the damaged area.

Quite often you can make out the teeth marks in gnawings. I put a
recent picture here of some smaller branches that show Eastern
Cottontail work:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/217Prpr

Close examination of the work can give more clues by noting the
width of the teeth marks. Those are apple tree branches, which
they seem to like okay. Nom-nom...

-- 
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids  MI

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#32640

> 
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:39:15 -0000 (UTC)
> <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
> 
> >Significant amount of bark have been stripped from a mature lemon
> >tree, apparently in the last several hours. Both squirrels and rats
> >are abundant in the area, but in sixteen years I've never seen the
> >lemon tree damaged at all. I've observed squirrels feeding on mulberry
> >buds each spring, but they quit once the trees leaf out and haven't
> >done serious damage.
> >
> >The lemon tree is a different story; large areas of bark are gone, maybe
> >20% of the main stem surface area. Trunk seems to be left alone, foliage
> >hasn't been touched. One major limb is entirely debarked, all seemingly
> >overnight.

  Deer rubbing, common in spring, done to help them shed 
last year's antlers.

  Janet UK

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#32634

On 3/19/2024 12:39 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
> Significant amount of bark have been stripped from a mature lemon
> tree, apparently in the last several hours. Both squirrels and rats
> are abundant in the area, but in sixteen years I've never seen the
> lemon tree damaged at all. I've observed squirrels feeding on mulberry
> buds each spring, but they quit once the trees leaf out and haven't
> done serious damage.
> 
> The lemon tree is a different story; large areas of bark are gone, maybe
> 20% of the main stem surface area. Trunk seems to be left alone, foliage
> hasn't been touched. One major limb is entirely debarked, all seemingly
> overnight. 
> 
> I'm suspecting squirrels primarily, but roof rats are present also. 
> Are there any other likely suspects, and any potential control measures?
> The tree is in a small back yard surrounded by larger trees, the house
> and fences. Denying jump access will be very difficult.  
> 
> If anybody's got ideas please share them. 
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> 
> bob prohaska
> 
> 

Is it possible that the sun was shining on the affected limbs?  Citrus
bark is very sensitive to sunburn.  Commercial orchards often paint the
trunks and large limbs with whitewash.  I merely prune my dwarf citrus
in a way that the foliage shades the branches.

-- 
David E. Ross
Climate:  California Mediterranean, see
<http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html>
Gardening diary at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary>

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#32636

David E. Ross <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> 
> Is it possible that the sun was shining on the affected limbs?  Citrus
> bark is very sensitive to sunburn.  Commercial orchards often paint the
> trunks and large limbs with whitewash.  I merely prune my dwarf citrus
> in a way that the foliage shades the branches.

Sun damage seems implausible to happen overnight, or a few nights. There
are also lots of chips on the ground. This is rather certainly mechanical
damage, much of it on the underside of the branches.

There have been episodes of squirrels vigorously chewing inedible objects,
(plastic recycling bins) perhaps as a territory marking behavior. Why one
might start now is obscure, but I'm no squirrel psychologist. 

For the moment I've put out a WCS tube trap, mostly for lack of a better
idea. It's baited with walnut kernel, which works for rats. Never tried
for squirrels before. I don't really want to kill the critter, whatever
it might be, but the tree won't survive much more damage at the present
rate. 

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska
 

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#32637

<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
...
> For the moment I've put out a WCS tube trap, mostly for lack of a better
> idea. It's baited with walnut kernel, which works for rats. Never tried
> for squirrels before. I don't really want to kill the critter, whatever
> it might be, but the tree won't survive much more damage at the present
> rate. 

  rat traps baited with peanut butter and a bit of apricot
stuck on the trip pan (be sure to secure it well because
you want them to have to work to get it and that will set
off the trap).  an additional approach is to make sure 
there is enough peanut butter under the trip pan to
encourage them to go for it and set off the trap.

  as much as i hate harming any creature at times i've had
to trap chipmunks and mice and these sorts of things can
really make a difference in how effective the traps can
be.

  i really hate using poisons.

  good luck, i hope you figure out what kind of creature
you're up against.  that always helps.  :)  if anything
you might be able to distract them by feeding them things
they like a lot more than lemon tree bark.


  songbird

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#32638

On 3/19/2024 9:31 PM, songbird wrote:
> <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
> ...
>> For the moment I've put out a WCS tube trap, mostly for lack of a better
>> idea. It's baited with walnut kernel, which works for rats. Never tried
>> for squirrels before. I don't really want to kill the critter, whatever
>> it might be, but the tree won't survive much more damage at the present
>> rate.
> 
>    rat traps baited with peanut butter and a bit of apricot
> stuck on the trip pan (be sure to secure it well because
> you want them to have to work to get it and that will set
> off the trap).  an additional approach is to make sure
> there is enough peanut butter under the trip pan to
> encourage them to go for it and set off the trap.
> 
>    as much as i hate harming any creature at times i've had
> to trap chipmunks and mice and these sorts of things can
> really make a difference in how effective the traps can
> be.
> 
>    i really hate using poisons.
> 
>    good luck, i hope you figure out what kind of creature
> you're up against.  that always helps.  :)  if anything
> you might be able to distract them by feeding them things
> they like a lot more than lemon tree bark.

I had a rat problem once. They would quickly steel the bait. I separated 
the 2 layers of a couple squares of TP, and covered the trap with 1 
layer of TP, and attached the bait to the trigger arm over the TP. That 
fooled them and got them.

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#32641

I should have mentioned a few details.

The damage starts about four feet from the ground and and goes up to maybe
eight feet or a little more.  Last I checked rabbits don't climb trees 8-)

The tree is in a fenced suburban back yard. Deer would be astonishing but
there is one low gate that could be easily jumped. If porcupines are
present at all they're not common in the southern Sacramento Valley.  
 
There aren't obvious tooth marks in the wood; the bark is slipping, so
it peels easily. There are tooth marks in the bark around the edges
of the damaged area. They appear to be small, 3-5 mm wide. There are a
few wider marks, but that might just be how the bark peels. Lots of
chips on the ground, also 3-5 mm wide. 

Much of the area damaged is on the lower side of horizontal limbs, it's
more circumferential  on vertial limbs. In most cases there is a narrow
strip of surviving bark, but it looks too small for the limbs to survive.

This morning I didn't see obvious new damage. The tree will likely
replace the existing damange. I can save most of the crop by harvesting 
and processing it now. It probably won't hold long. 

One neighbor showed me a polyethylene recycling bin where a squirrel 
had been observed methodically chewing along the exposed edges of the 
lid. I tend to think squirrels are the most likely suspects, but they're
active in daytime and I've not seen them in action on the lemon.  

Thanks for all the replies! 

bob prohaska

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#32642

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 17:14:18 -0000 (UTC)
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

<snip>
>If porcupines are
>present at all they're not common in the southern Sacramento Valley.  

They're roughly in the area per GBIF sightings:

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?taxon_key=6066824&geometry=POLYGON((-122.00359%2038.45378,-121.37917%2038.45378,-121.37917%2039.31235,-122.00359%2039.31235,-122.00359%2038.45378))

Thanks for the detailed description. Big help in making guesses...

Did some quick searching on Western Grey Squirrels. They're in your
area and can strip bark but it's not usual for them. May have something
to do with the crazy weather of late, I'm sure the animals aren't
dealing with it the best either...

-- 
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids  MI

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#32643

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> They're roughly in the area per GBIF sightings:
> 
> https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?taxon_key=6066824&geometry=POLYGON((-122.00359%2038.45378,-121.37917%2038.45378,-121.37917%2039.31235,-122.00359%2039.31235,-122.00359%2038.45378))
> 

The map's a little peculiar, but if I'm seeing right the photos are from
near Yuba City. I'm west of Sacramento about twenty miles.  

> Thanks for the detailed description. Big help in making guesses...
>
Here are some photos of the damage, requested by another correspondent:
http://www.zefox.net/~rprohask/lemon_damage/
 
> Did some quick searching on Western Grey Squirrels. They're in your

Greys are in undisturbed rural areas, but not in town. Only fox sqirrels,
an introduced species, have been seen in my yard. In a sense that's good:
Greys are rare and protected, fox squirrels are pests and unprotected. 

My money is that it's fox squirrels. The question is what, if anything,
can be done. Excluding squirrels is harder than excluding birds. For now
I'm just going to pay more attention and try to learn. 

Thanks for replying!

bob prohaska

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#32644

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 19:40:25 -0000 (UTC)
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

<snip>
>The map's a little peculiar, but if I'm seeing right the photos are from
>near Yuba City. I'm west of Sacramento about twenty miles.  

Yeah, I limited the area guessing where you were located... GBIF can be
fun (for me, anyway) to play with. No use speculating about plants,
fungi, animals... if there are no sightings in your area. Can
quite often find a lot more images to look over while trying to ID
stuff too...

Your pictures made me cringe😬 Never seen anything so bad on a tree
that far up. There are some squirrels that will use bark for their
nest. Like Abert's, but I didn't find any sightings in your area. Was
going to mention putting out a TrailCam too if you have one. If not
they aren't too expensive and kinda fun to see what's around when you
aren't watching.

Suspect a Porcupines bite marks would be a bit wider than a Squirrels.
I didn't find any solid numbers... maybe 8-9 mm for top incisor.

-- 
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids  MI

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#32646

<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
> Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>> They're roughly in the area per GBIF sightings:
>> 
>> https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?taxon_key=6066824&geometry=POLYGON((-122.00359%2038.45378,-121.37917%2038.45378,-121.37917%2039.31235,-122.00359%2039.31235,-122.00359%2038.45378))
>> 
>
> The map's a little peculiar, but if I'm seeing right the photos are from
> near Yuba City. I'm west of Sacramento about twenty miles.  
>
>> Thanks for the detailed description. Big help in making guesses...
>>
> Here are some photos of the damage, requested by another correspondent:
> http://www.zefox.net/~rprohask/lemon_damage/

  wow, so sorry to see that.  there's some age to that
tree, but the creatures really went after the more tender
younger growth when they could easily get at it.

  sprinkle some flour around and see if you can get
some prints.

  set traps all over the place.

  do you have groundhogs around there?

  
>> Did some quick searching on Western Grey Squirrels. They're in your
>
> Greys are in undisturbed rural areas, but not in town. Only fox sqirrels,
> an introduced species, have been seen in my yard. In a sense that's good:
> Greys are rare and protected, fox squirrels are pests and unprotected. 
>
> My money is that it's fox squirrels. The question is what, if anything,
> can be done. Excluding squirrels is harder than excluding birds. For now
> I'm just going to pay more attention and try to learn. 
>
> Thanks for replying!
>
> bob prohaska

  good luck!


  songbird

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#32647

songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>> Here are some photos of the damage, requested by another correspondent:
>> http://www.zefox.net/~rprohask/lemon_damage/
> 
>   wow, so sorry to see that.  there's some age to that
> tree, but the creatures really went after the more tender
> younger growth when they could easily get at it.
> 
>   sprinkle some flour around and see if you can get
> some prints.
> 

The area under the tree is unprepared, weeds and fallen leaves mostly. 
Very hard to get tracks without a snowstorm-like covering.

>   set traps all over the place.
> 

I tried the WCS tube trap on the ground near the trunk, baited with
a fresh walnet kernel. No takers afer several days. The trap is now
wired to the top of a limb where most of the bark underneath has been 
chewed off. Given that the critter is already focused on bark it
seems unlikely it'll pay much attention to bait. It might find the 
trap a convenient place to rest. There does seem to be evidence
of a little new damage, so maybe the trap will score.

>   do you have groundhogs around there?
>

Not that I know of. Are groundhogs climbers?
 
>   
>   good luck!

Thank you!

bob prohaska

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#32648

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 18:38:00 -0000 (UTC)
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

<snip>
>Not that I know of. Are groundhogs climbers?

They can climb but somehow I don't think they fit what I've seen in
your images...

Here's another possibility you might find of interest, Ground Squirrels:

https://ipm.ucanr.edu/agriculture/citrus/california-ground-squirrels/

-- 
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids  MI

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#32649

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> Here's another possibility you might find of interest, Ground Squirrels:
> 
> https://ipm.ucanr.edu/agriculture/citrus/california-ground-squirrels/
> 

The banner photo on that page shows a squirrel with a much more luxurious
tail than is seen on the ground squirrels around here. Apart from color, it 
could be mistaken for a tree squirrel.  

Ground squirrels aren't seen in town, only fox squirrels.  Out of town ground 
squirrels are seen along roadsides in agricultural areas, grey squirrels are 
seen in riparian areas and in small numbers near orchards.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska

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#32650

On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 05:17:51 -0000 (UTC)
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

<snip>
>The banner photo on that page shows a squirrel with a much more luxurious
>tail than is seen on the ground squirrels around here. Apart from color, it 
>could be mistaken for a tree squirrel.  

I took it for a stock photo and not representative to the articles
content. Think somebody made a poor decision in website design here...

-- 
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids  MI

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#32651

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> 
> I took it for a stock photo and not representative to the articles
> content. Think somebody made a poor decision in website design here...

I'm seeing more and more of that lately, both on websites and in print.....

Meanwhile, the damage seems to have gotten noticeably worse since yesterday.
Still haven't caught a glimpse of the culprit, the trap is unvisited. Makes
me think it's nocturnal. Squirrels very obviously aren't shy.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska
 

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#32645

On 3/19/2024 2:18 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 3/19/2024 12:39 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
>> Significant amount of bark have been stripped from a mature lemon
>> tree, apparently in the last several hours. Both squirrels and rats
>> are abundant in the area, but in sixteen years I've never seen the
>> lemon tree damaged at all. I've observed squirrels feeding on mulberry
>> buds each spring, but they quit once the trees leaf out and haven't
>> done serious damage.
>>
>> The lemon tree is a different story; large areas of bark are gone, maybe
>> 20% of the main stem surface area. Trunk seems to be left alone, foliage
>> hasn't been touched. One major limb is entirely debarked, all seemingly
>> overnight. 
>>
>> I'm suspecting squirrels primarily, but roof rats are present also. 
>> Are there any other likely suspects, and any potential control measures?
>> The tree is in a small back yard surrounded by larger trees, the house
>> and fences. Denying jump access will be very difficult.  
>>
>> If anybody's got ideas please share them. 
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>>
>> bob prohaska
>>
>>
> 
> Is it possible that the sun was shining on the affected limbs?  Citrus
> bark is very sensitive to sunburn.  Commercial orchards often paint the
> trunks and large limbs with whitewash.  I merely prune my dwarf citrus
> in a way that the foliage shades the branches.
> 

From your photos and description, your problem might have multiple causes.

Snails love citrus bark.  Several decades ago, snails killed my mother's
;lemon tree by eating the bark complete around the trunk.

I already cited sunburn.  If the tree was indeed affected, the bark
might not fall away until there is a wind or rain storm.

Yes, squirrels can cause such damage as shown in your photos.  They
nearly kills large white mulberry trees in a public garden near my
house.  They prefer eating new shoots instead of bark.  It is still
possible, however, that they damaged the bark while eating shoots.

-- 
David E. Ross
Climate:  California Mediterranean, see
<http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html>
Gardening diary at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary>

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