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ali GMAW common practice North America

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  ali GMAW common practice North America Richard Smith <null@void.com> - 2026-06-23 08:12 +0100
    Re: ali GMAW common practice North America Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> - 2026-06-23 12:14 -0700

#543414 — ali GMAW common practice North America

Hi there
Been surprised by what is and is not stocked in the UK.
What's recommended in the Lincoln "bible" of welding conditions isn't
doable here it seems due to what's never been heard of.

For ali boats in the few metres / very few tens of foot range - what are
the usual techiques?
You use 5083 Al-Mg for boats?
In BC, Canada, about 17 years ago I saw push-pull guns in some places and
spool-guns in other places.  I've only known a conventional GMAW/MIG
with a "push" feeder used.  That isn't the problem with 5000-series as
I've known - the wire is hard and slippery.  Why spool-gun?  The boats
are made from 4000-series?

Any using 4000-series? (Al-Si)
Can you push-feed 4043?  With larger wire diameters?

I've only known welding 5083 plate ali, and 6000-series extrusions, with
5356 (and sometimes higher-strength 5183) welding-wire, with a
"conventional" push-feed MIG/GMAW welding machine as you would use for
steel.

Thanks if anyone can give me some idea on this.

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#543415

On 6/23/2026 12:12 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
> Hi there
> Been surprised by what is and is not stocked in the UK.
> What's recommended in the Lincoln "bible" of welding conditions isn't
> doable here it seems due to what's never been heard of.
> 
> For ali boats in the few metres / very few tens of foot range - what are
> the usual techiques?
> You use 5083 Al-Mg for boats?
> In BC, Canada, about 17 years ago I saw push-pull guns in some places and
> spool-guns in other places.  I've only known a conventional GMAW/MIG
> with a "push" feeder used.  That isn't the problem with 5000-series as
> I've known - the wire is hard and slippery.  Why spool-gun?  The boats
> are made from 4000-series?
> 
> Any using 4000-series? (Al-Si)
> Can you push-feed 4043?  With larger wire diameters?
> 
> I've only known welding 5083 plate ali, and 6000-series extrusions, with
> 5356 (and sometimes higher-strength 5183) welding-wire, with a
> "conventional" push-feed MIG/GMAW welding machine as you would use for
> steel.
> 
> Thanks if anyone can give me some idea on this.


Most of what I know about welding aluminum I learned from this group, 
the s.e.j.welding group, YouTube videos, and direct experience (very 
small scale hobby level only.) Most of the people who were most versed 
and taught me the most on Usenet are yourself, gunner (deceased), and a 
host of others whom I have not seen on the groups in a long time.  I do 
occasionally ask a question on the Miller welds forum, where there is a 
lot of useful knowledge, but often get no responses or have to wade 
through responses from people trying to look for a reason to show they 
are better than (me).

I may be the one most likely (and probably least qualified) to respond 
because I have direct interest in aluminum boat building.

What I was taught is use 5052 for hulls, bulkheads etc, and 5083 or 5086 
for structural, but I think that is mostly for larger watercraft.  Not 
modest boats (under 30 feet ~ 10 meters).  I was told not to use 6061, 
but it is stronger than 5052, and I was surprised to learn it is 
considered by many to be a marine grade aluminum.  Maybe just fresh 
water marine.  Do your own research and make your own decisions.

 From a practical standpoint I can buy 5052 sheet and plate in modest 
quantities as a back yard boat builder from a number of sources, but I 
was not able to find any decent sources for my likely quantities of 5083 
or 5086.  I also was able to find some limited marine type extrusions 
suitable for boat construction in 6061.  I suspect most domestic small 
craft are all 5052, although companies like Tracker who are big enough 
to have custom extrusions made can get it in whatever alloy they want.

On to the welding process, 4043 was pretty much frowned upon by 
everybody in marine grade applications.  Everybody said just use 5356, 
so that is what I have used for my own aluminum destruction.  5356 seems 
to be a more "universal" wire capable of strong (strong enough) welds in 
6061, 5052, and the stronger 5000 series alloys.

The actually processes probably vary dramatically from shop to shop 
depending on their size and capitalization.

At the bottom end is torch rod like Muggy Weld, Alumaweld, and some of 
the Blue Demon products.  I have actually made useful parts that are 
still in service using that process.  Its slow, tedious, and for those 
reasons I find it very hard to do without burning up stock work pieces. 
Due to the fact that you are melting the welding rod with the heat put 
into the base metal its my opinion its not suitable for anything but 
small jobs.  The theory is the torch rod melts at a lower temperature 
than the base metal so you are functionally soldering or "brazing," but 
the reality is the melting temperatures are to close for me to manage 
very well with a torch.  I have never heard of anybody using it for more 
than small repairs or making small (relatively) parts.

At the top end for production speed is probably a push pull system with 
a teflon liner and a pulse MIG power plant.  A push pull gun is 
typically smaller than a spool gun, so welding position and access is 
better.  Pulse reduces excess heat input and allows a skilled welder to 
make longer welds without using stitch and fill methods.

I had heard of an AC pulse MIG process for production aluminum welding, 
but when I mentioned it to a local welding instructor he said I was full 
of shit.

For quality welds AC TIG seems to be the answer being able to break the 
oxide layer with one side of the wave, and weld with the other.  Pro 
welders seem to be split about whether or not pulse is necessary.  I 
suspect its probably more a function of how they learned to weld, the 
equipment they have, and that attitude sometimes showing through I 
mentioned about the Miller Welds forum. My personal opinion is that 
pulse TIG may help an amateur hack like myself manage heat input a 
little better, but a highly skilled pro who can feed and travel fast 
with confidence may not need that to make adequate TIG welds in 
aluminum.  I have zero success rate TIG welding aluminum, although I do 
have a machine with AC pulse variable balance variable frequency 
capability.  My only attempts at TIG aluminum just blew up 6063 
extrusions.  My gas hose was probably bad the almost whole time I have 
owned the machine.  I have since repairing it made usable if not pretty 
stainless welds with it.  I expect my next attempts to TIG aluminum with 
it might be better if not good.

In between are guys using a short stinger suitcase welder with a teflon 
liner and a regular push only mig gun to weld aluminum on simple DCEP 
with argon, and guys like myself with a decent DC welder and a spool gun 
who just stitch and fill with lots of cleaning with a stainless wire 
brush in between every weld.  The spool gun reduces bird nesting over a 
plain jane MIG stinger.  The short stinger regular mig gun gets into the 
tightest spaces.  The key for using a regular MIG gun is keep it very 
short, and keep your cable as straight as possible.

There are stick aluminum rods out there, but I've never seen any 
information on real commercial use.  Just YouTube famous welders showing 
they can burn the stuff.

If you are going to build boats remember that they break at "hard 
points" and boats flex a lot in use.  Aluminum and fiberglass both crack 
and break at hard points.  That is where two different pieces, 
structures or sections come together with a sharp corner to concentrate 
force, and sharp is relative.  There are a heck of a lot of 
professionally designed, engineered, and built boats out there that have 
needed to be repaired without being in a wreck.    I'm not saying don't 
do it.  I am saying build with repair in mind, reinforce your hard 
points, and spread the loads where you can.

Now that I have exhausted my meager knowledge have a good laugh at my 
expense, and get to work on your project.

-- 
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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