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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #502566 > unrolled thread

YASID: Different value for pi

Started byeichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice)
First post2018-11-17 15:22 +0000
Last post2019-01-04 09:02 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 134 — 32 participants

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  YASID: Different value for pi eichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice) - 2018-11-17 15:22 +0000
    YASID: Different value for pi andrewelovejr@msn.com - 2018-11-17 08:49 -0800
      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2018-11-17 17:08 +0000
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi eichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice) - 2018-11-18 00:42 +0000
          Re: YASID: Different value for pi andrewelovejr@msn.com - 2018-11-17 16:47 -0800
    YASID: Different value for pi andrewelovejr@msn.com - 2018-11-17 08:51 -0800
      YASID: Different value for pi andrewelovejr@msn.com - 2018-11-17 08:52 -0800
    Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-17 09:37 -0800
      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> - 2018-11-17 11:41 -0700
      Re: YASID: Different value for pi djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-11-17 20:02 +0000
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 16:48 -0500
          Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 16:22 -0600
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-11-18 13:17 -0500
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-11-18 21:02 +0000
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-11-19 11:40 -0600
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 17:01 -0600
          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-18 07:31 -0800
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-11-18 16:26 +0000
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-11-18 19:52 -0700
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-19 03:33 +0000
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-19 01:33 -0800
                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-19 15:01 +0000
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-19 16:23 +0000
                        Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-19 13:48 -0800
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-19 22:32 +0000
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-11-19 23:55 +0100
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 15:36 -0700
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-20 00:57 +0000
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-11-20 01:47 +0000
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-20 04:41 +0000
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 17:21 -0600
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-20 00:35 +0000
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 13:36 -0600
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-18 23:04 -0800
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-18 11:44 -0500
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-19 01:41 -0800
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 08:49 -0500
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-17 22:46 +0000
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com> - 2018-11-17 18:38 -0600
      Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 15:58 -0500
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-11-18 19:55 -0700
          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-18 23:08 -0800
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-19 01:37 -0800
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi andrewelovejr@msn.com - 2018-11-19 03:58 -0800
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-19 07:42 -0800
          Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 08:56 -0500
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-19 14:32 +0000
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-19 07:45 -0800
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 14:56 -0500
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 12:28 -0700
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 12:58 -0800
                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 15:26 -0700
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-11-19 15:42 -0800
                        Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 20:25 -0500
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-11-19 20:45 -0800
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-19 22:29 -0800
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 06:52 +0000
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-12-04 14:23 -0600
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 21:47 -0600
                        Re: YASID: Different value for pi Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 06:53 +0000
                        Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 06:13 -0500
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 06:56 -0800
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 14:26 -0700
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-24 19:49 +0000
                                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2018-11-24 21:44 +0000
                                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-24 14:36 -0800
                                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-11-25 01:24 +0000
                                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-24 13:58 -0700
                                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-11-24 23:20 -0700
                                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-24 22:51 -0800
                                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-11-25 11:13 -0600
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-12-04 14:21 -0600
                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 12:30 -0700
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-12-05 00:13 -0800
                        Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-12-05 08:10 -0700
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-12-05 08:56 -0800
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-12-05 11:01 -0700
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-12-05 15:56 -0800
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-12-06 17:54 -0600
                                Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 17:32 -0600
                                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-12-14 00:34 -0600
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2019-01-01 15:39 -0800
                                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2019-01-01 18:36 -0800
                                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2019-01-01 20:45 -0800
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2019-01-01 15:50 -0800
                              Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 19:13 -0500
                                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2019-01-01 16:41 -0800
                                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2019-01-02 04:09 +0100
                                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2019-01-03 14:56 -0800
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-12-06 10:19 -0700
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 12:32 -0800
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-19 15:20 -0800
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 15:44 -0700
      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-11-18 10:39 -0700
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-11-18 12:58 -0700
    Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-17 19:14 +0000
      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 18:34 -0800
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 22:44 -0500
          Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-18 05:12 +0000
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-18 03:43 -0800
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-11-18 09:56 -0800
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-11-18 14:19 -0500
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-18 19:23 +0000
                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-11-18 15:36 -0500
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-18 21:06 +0000
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-11-18 13:06 -0800
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-11-18 21:04 +0000
                      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-18 18:08 -0800
                        Re: YASID: Different value for pi djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-11-19 03:22 +0000
                          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2018-11-19 17:57 +0000
                            Re: YASID: Different value for pi djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-11-19 20:39 +0000
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-18 21:14 +0000
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-11-19 10:07 -0800
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-18 17:59 -0800
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2018-11-19 21:57 +1100
          Re: YASID: Different value for pi Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-26 16:43 -0500
            Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-26 22:07 +0000
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 14:10 -0800
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-26 23:00 +0000
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-11-26 15:11 -0800
                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-26 15:38 -0800
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-26 17:52 -0500
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 00:27 +0000
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-27 00:53 +0000
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-26 22:11 -0500
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-27 04:09 +0000
                    Re: YASID: Different value for pi Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-27 10:03 -0800
              Re: YASID: Different value for pi David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-12-04 14:28 -0600
                Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-12-05 18:35 -0500
                  Re: YASID: Different value for pi "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2018-12-07 22:44 +1100
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-11-18 04:57 +0000
        Re: YASID: Different value for pi Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-11-18 03:27 -0800
    Re: YASID: Different value for pi eichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice) - 2019-01-03 22:05 +0000
      Re: YASID: Different value for pi Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2019-01-04 09:02 -0700

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#502566 — YASID: Different value for pi

Fromeichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice)
Date2018-11-17 15:22 +0000
SubjectYASID: Different value for pi
Message-ID<5bf03249.292650156@localhost>
I used to joke that my memory is weaker than a Commodore 64's.  After
this incident, I may have to downgrade that to Vic 20.

As I mentioned on this newsgroup several months ago, I've been slowly
working my way through all the Hugo winning novels in chronological
order.  Last month I got to 1974 and Rendezvous With Rama.

I had previously read it decades ago, probably sometime in the late
1980s or early 90s.  I distinctly remembered a scene where the group
exploring Rama found a circular object, measured its circumference and
radius and determined that it had a different value of pi (i.e. not
3.14159etc).

But my current re-read turned up no such scene.  I even slogged my way
through the three Gentry Lee sequels, and it's not in those either.

So anyone know where I might have read that?  There's a tiny chance
that my brain took a joke from the Simpsons where Professor Frink is
trying to get the attention of a group of unruly scientists and shouts
out "Gentleman, pi is exactly three!" and convinced itself that I had
read it in a book.  But I'm almost sure that I actually did read such
a scene somewhere.

  -- Bob

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#502568

Fromandrewelovejr@msn.com
Date2018-11-17 08:49 -0800
Message-ID<62afc8ef-8e82-4a60-b393-b9c8e6b3ff12@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#502566
You're probably thinking of Greg Bear's Eon; in that book, during an exploration of a cylindrical structure reminiscent of Rama, a pi-measuring device is used.

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#502574

FromJaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org>
Date2018-11-17 17:08 +0000
Message-ID<sli0vd9qd5oijlolmgja98hrri5tp3sag7@4ax.com>
In reply to#502568
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 08:49:51 -0800 (PST), andrewelovejr@msn.com wrote:

>You're probably thinking of Greg Bear's Eon; in that book, during an exploration of a cylindrical structure reminiscent of Rama, a pi-measuring device is used.

That's the one I was going to suggest.

I have a vague memory that one is mentioned as part of the 'what the
heck is this universe then' kit in _The Number of the Beast_ but I can't
find it on a quick flick through.

	Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
#include "clue.h"

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#502601

Fromeichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice)
Date2018-11-18 00:42 +0000
Message-ID<5bf0b46b.325961406@localhost>
In reply to#502574
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 17:08:45 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
<jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 08:49:51 -0800 (PST), andrewelovejr@msn.com wrote:
>
>>You're probably thinking of Greg Bear's Eon; in that book, during an 
>>exploration of a cylindrical structure reminiscent of Rama, a 
>>pi-measuring device is used.
>
>That's the one I was going to suggest.


That's probably it.  I read Eon about four or five years ago.  I was
thinking this pi thing was something that I'd read decades ago, but
like I said my memory is crap.  It could easily be Eon that I'm
thinking of.

Thanks.

  -- Bob

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#502602

Fromandrewelovejr@msn.com
Date2018-11-17 16:47 -0800
Message-ID<46c9c942-ad8e-4720-b322-3e1b566cfe83@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#502601
> 
> Thanks.
> 
Happy to help. 

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#502569

Fromandrewelovejr@msn.com
Date2018-11-17 08:51 -0800
Message-ID<ba002bd9-921a-4cf9-b545-bc1624c0de9d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#502566
In Greg Bear's Eon, there's a pi-measuring device.

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#502571

Fromandrewelovejr@msn.com
Date2018-11-17 08:52 -0800
Message-ID<57e14be0-401a-4d36-ba01-0562a8dfa5d9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#502569
Sorry about the duplicate response.  

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#502579

FromRobert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com>
Date2018-11-17 09:37 -0800
Message-ID<53fdd436-77ae-4fad-b843-1245cea897c4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#502566
Pi is 3 in Bob Shaw's _The Ragged Astronauts_, which I think 
I've complained about before - specifically the pi thing,
though I also found the monsters very unpleasant.  Pi isn't 
a choice, and it bothers me when a story says that it is.
Another story, in a twentieth century setting, has a character 
making their computer search in digits of pi for a message 
from God.  And I think Star Trek's _Memory Prime_ has a 
community of super-computers that happen to have worked out
several interesting facts that they weren't asked for and
haven't told their human associates, one being that their
pi is eventually a repeating decimal.

I wonder if <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_formula_for_π>
will link since the last symbol of the URL is the letter pi.
This shows that a deceptively simple formula with no geometry
produces the exact value of pi... gradually!  So there isn't
really room to change it - although Jesus had an interesting 
way with math if you gave him enough small loaves and fish 
to work with.

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#502581

FromSteve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com>
Date2018-11-17 11:41 -0700
Message-ID<ieSdnVKGPp0g_W3GnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#502579
On 11/17/2018 10:37 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> Pi is 3 in Bob Shaw's _The Ragged Astronauts_, which I think
> I've complained about before - specifically the pi thing,
> though I also found the monsters very unpleasant.  Pi isn't
> a choice, and it bothers me when a story says that it is.
> Another story, in a twentieth century setting, has a character
> making their computer search in digits of pi for a message
> from God.  And I think Star Trek's _Memory Prime_ has a
> community of super-computers that happen to have worked out
> several interesting facts that they weren't asked for and
> haven't told their human associates, one being that their
> pi is eventually a repeating decimal.
> 
> I wonder if <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_formula_for_π>
> will link since the last symbol of the URL is the letter pi.
> This shows that a deceptively simple formula with no geometry
> produces the exact value of pi... gradually!  So there isn't
> really room to change it - although Jesus had an interesting
> way with math if you gave him enough small loaves and fish
> to work with.
> 
The message from God thing was from Contact by Carl Sagen.  They had a 
computer calculate PI after a while it started spitting out 1 and 0's. 
When graphed made a perfect circle.

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#502585

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-11-17 20:02 +0000
Message-ID<pICt00.1CL@kithrup.com>
In reply to#502579
In article <53fdd436-77ae-4fad-b843-1245cea897c4@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>Pi is 3 in Bob Shaw's _The Ragged Astronauts_, which I think 
>I've complained about before - specifically the pi thing,
>though I also found the monsters very unpleasant.  Pi isn't 
>a choice, and it bothers me when a story says that it is.

Except when it's close enough for government work^H^H^H^H^H^H^H...
estimating.  If I'm making a garment and I know what I want the circumference of
the neckline to be, and I need to find the radius to set the
compass to, I calculate pi-D for pi=3, halve D, and it's close
enough.

You'll recall the story of some dumb State legislature that
wanted to make pi=3 official; fortunately it was shot down.  They
were going by the Biblical description of a fbason" (a vat of
some kind) that was ten cubits across and had thirty decorative
"bosses" on its rim, each a cubit from the next.  That equates to
pi=3, but when it's something that size (a cubit is the length of a
man's forearm from elbow to fingertip), that's close enough.

Modern engineers, making a ballpark estimate, use pi=3 before
they get down to the actual design, where they have to be more
accurate.

>Another story, in a twentieth century setting, has a character 
>making their computer search in digits of pi for a message 
>from God.

Yeah, that was Sagan's novel, I forget its title [Hal has just
told me it was _Contact_].  You got down into the zillionth digit
and it formed a circle on the printout.  Cute, but tongue-in-cheek.

> And I think Star Trek's _Memory Prime_ has a 
>community of super-computers that happen to have worked out
>several interesting facts that they weren't asked for and
>haven't told their human associates, one being that their
>pi is eventually a repeating decimal.

That would knock a lot of socks off, yes.  I never saw/read that
one.

>I wonder if <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_formula_for_π>
>will link since the last symbol of the URL is the letter pi.
>This shows that a deceptively simple formula with no geometry
>produces the exact value of pi... gradually!  

Hey, you build your vat approximately 10 cubits across, and you
take your 30 bosses and lay them out till they look symmetrical
to the Mark 1 eyeball, and then weld them on.  When my daughter
was small, I made her a gown with daisies ~evenly spaced around
the hem.  I stuck pins in the hem, and moved them here and there
till they *looked* even, and then started embroidering.

> So there isn't
>really room to change it - although Jesus had an interesting 
>way with math if you gave him enough small loaves and fish 
>to work with.

And supernatural powers.  Any theist will argue that g/God made
the laws of nature in the first place, and caused grain and fish
to be fruitful and multiply on their own hook; this time he just
did it manually.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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#502590

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-11-17 16:48 -0500
Message-ID<7801vddsct9gc8ejaqhhgegvta8qk95l49@4ax.com>
In reply to#502585
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 20:02:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <53fdd436-77ae-4fad-b843-1245cea897c4@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>Pi is 3 in Bob Shaw's _The Ragged Astronauts_, which I think 
>>I've complained about before - specifically the pi thing,
>>though I also found the monsters very unpleasant.  Pi isn't 
>>a choice, and it bothers me when a story says that it is.
>
>Except when it's close enough for government work^H^H^H^H^H^H^H...
>estimating.  If I'm making a garment and I know what I want the circumference of
>the neckline to be, and I need to find the radius to set the
>compass to, I calculate pi-D for pi=3, halve D, and it's close
>enough.
>
>You'll recall the story of some dumb State legislature that
>wanted to make pi=3 official; fortunately it was shot down.  They
>were going by the Biblical description of a fbason" (a vat of
>some kind) that was ten cubits across and had thirty decorative
>"bosses" on its rim, each a cubit from the next.  That equates to
>pi=3, but when it's something that size (a cubit is the length of a
>man's forearm from elbow to fingertip), that's close enough.

Where does that appear in the Bible?  The only description I can find
says that it was ten cubits in diameter and a line 30 meters long
could be passed around it.  Not all versions of the Bible mention the
line.

It was pointed out way back in Rabbinical history that the rim was a
"handsbreadth" in width and if you assume that the ancient Hebrews
would have as much trouble as we do keeping the rope on the rim and
instead passed it around underneath the rim, the numbers actually work
out pretty close.

Further, the only serious attempt to enact any legislation regarding
pi that I can find is the famous one in Indiana, which has absolutely
nothing to do with the Bible and everything to do with a crackpot who
was convinced that he had found a way to square the circle and managed
to get a bunch of legislators to support legislating his method.

According to Snopes there was a story started as an April Fool joke
that Alabama was trying to legislate Pi but that's all it was, an
April Fool joke, that would have gained no traction at all if it had
not been started by someone at the Associated Press.

>Modern engineers, making a ballpark estimate, use pi=3 before
>they get down to the actual design, where they have to be more
>accurate.

Depends on what we're measuring.  If we're pouring concrete with a
hole in it we might assume 3, if we're pouring a column we might
assume 4--in each case our first guess of the amount of concrete
required is high so no idiot manager goes of lowballing.

>>Another story, in a twentieth century setting, has a character 
>>making their computer search in digits of pi for a message 
>>from God.
>
>Yeah, that was Sagan's novel, I forget its title [Hal has just
>told me it was _Contact_].  You got down into the zillionth digit
>and it formed a circle on the printout.  Cute, but tongue-in-cheek.
>
>> And I think Star Trek's _Memory Prime_ has a 
>>community of super-computers that happen to have worked out
>>several interesting facts that they weren't asked for and
>>haven't told their human associates, one being that their
>>pi is eventually a repeating decimal.
>
>That would knock a lot of socks off, yes.  I never saw/read that
>one.
>
>>I wonder if <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_formula_for_?>
>>will link since the last symbol of the URL is the letter pi.
>>This shows that a deceptively simple formula with no geometry
>>produces the exact value of pi... gradually!  
>
>Hey, you build your vat approximately 10 cubits across, and you
>take your 30 bosses and lay them out till they look symmetrical
>to the Mark 1 eyeball, and then weld them on.  When my daughter
>was small, I made her a gown with daisies ~evenly spaced around
>the hem.  I stuck pins in the hem, and moved them here and there
>till they *looked* even, and then started embroidering.
>
>> So there isn't
>>really room to change it - although Jesus had an interesting 
>>way with math if you gave him enough small loaves and fish 
>>to work with.
>
>And supernatural powers.  Any theist will argue that g/God made
>the laws of nature in the first place, and caused grain and fish
>to be fruitful and multiply on their own hook; this time he just
>did it manually.

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#502592

From"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com>
Date2018-11-17 16:22 -0600
Message-ID<psq4bq$fv9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#502590
On 17/11/2018 15.48, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 20:02:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>> In article <53fdd436-77ae-4fad-b843-1245cea897c4@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>> Pi is 3 in Bob Shaw's _The Ragged Astronauts_, which I think 
>>> I've complained about before - specifically the pi thing,
>>> though I also found the monsters very unpleasant.  Pi isn't 
>>> a choice, and it bothers me when a story says that it is.

>> You'll recall the story of some dumb State legislature that
>> wanted to make pi=3 official; fortunately it was shot down.

> Further, the only serious attempt to enact any legislation regarding
> pi that I can find is the famous one in Indiana, which has absolutely
> nothing to do with the Bible and everything to do with a crackpot who
> was convinced that he had found a way to square the circle and managed
> to get a bunch of legislators to support legislating his method.

You can get more details in:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_Pi>

Apparently, the crackpot's writeup was so incoherent that it could be
read as supporting 3, 4, and others.

-- 
Michael F. Stemper
Exodus 22:21

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#502631

FromJoy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid>
Date2018-11-18 13:17 -0500
Message-ID<33b3vdhutiprbas6jvilinoo36va0kaiut@4ax.com>
In reply to#502592
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 16:22:30 -0600, "Michael F. Stemper"
<michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apparently, the crackpot's writeup was so incoherent that it could be
> read as supporting 3, 4, and others.

Pi is 4 when you are knitting from the middle out.


-- 
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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#502644

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-11-18 21:02 +0000
Message-ID<pIEqG5.s2x@kithrup.com>
In reply to#502631
In article <33b3vdhutiprbas6jvilinoo36va0kaiut@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 16:22:30 -0600, "Michael F. Stemper"
><michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Apparently, the crackpot's writeup was so incoherent that it could be
>> read as supporting 3, 4, and others.
>
>Pi is 4 when you are knitting from the middle out.

/thinks

Right.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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#502706

FromDavid DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net>
Date2018-11-19 11:40 -0600
Message-ID<NtKdne_8QbQHaG_GnZ2dnUU7-RWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#502644
On 2018-11-18, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 16:22:30 -0600, "Michael F. Stemper"
>><michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently, the crackpot's writeup was so incoherent that it could be
>>> read as supporting 3, 4, and others.
>>
>>Pi is 4 when you are knitting from the middle out.
>
> /thinks
>
> Right.

Pi is 3 when you're crocheting a hexagonal afghan.

Dave, and it wouldn't lay flat, so q.e.d.
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible	:( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#502804

From"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com>
Date2018-11-20 17:01 -0600
Message-ID<pt23o8$pv7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#502706
On 19/11/2018 11.40, David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2018-11-18, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 16:22:30 -0600, "Michael F. Stemper"
>>> <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apparently, the crackpot's writeup was so incoherent that it could be
>>>> read as supporting 3, 4, and others.
>>>
>>> Pi is 4 when you are knitting from the middle out.
>>
>> /thinks
>>
>> Right.
> 
> Pi is 3 when you're crocheting a hexagonal afghan.
> 
> Dave, and it wouldn't lay flat, so q.e.d.

Speaking of hyperbolic crochet:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTfviv_aZYI>

-- 
Michael F. Stemper
There's no "me" in "team". There's no "us" in "team", either.

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#502624

FromRobert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com>
Date2018-11-18 07:31 -0800
Message-ID<1c7cdeff-f60a-4002-99e9-533d79196dfb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#502590
The round thing in the bible could be oval, as far as I can tell.
But religious apologists, as they're called, don't have that amongst
their various explanations, possibly because it doesn't allow you
to deny that the original statement is in any way peculiar.
A flavour of anti-scepticism that probably contributed, a bit, 
to my eventually abandoning religious belief.

Another interpretation that fits the context, I think, is that
the object never existed but is being included in an insurance
claim after the first destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
The redundant measurements possibly are on the insurance form...

How does salt lose its savour anyway?  Sodium chloride isn't
transmuted to a different substance in everyday use.  And if it
is, then it isn't much good for clearing paths, either.

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#502625

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-11-18 16:26 +0000
Message-ID<pIEDo1.BJ2@kithrup.com>
In reply to#502624
In article <1c7cdeff-f60a-4002-99e9-533d79196dfb@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>The round thing in the bible could be oval, as far as I can tell.
>But religious apologists, as they're called, don't have that amongst
>their various explanations, possibly because it doesn't allow you
>to deny that the original statement is in any way peculiar.
>A flavour of anti-scepticism that probably contributed, a bit, 
>to my eventually abandoning religious belief.
>
>Another interpretation that fits the context, I think, is that
>the object never existed but is being included in an insurance
>claim after the first destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
>The redundant measurements possibly are on the insurance form...

Heh.
>
>How does salt lose its savour anyway?  Sodium chloride isn't
>transmuted to a different substance in everyday use.  And if it
>is, then it isn't much good for clearing paths, either.

Probably by picking up impurities.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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#502664

FromJoe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu>
Date2018-11-18 19:52 -0700
Message-ID<1b1s7hixs8.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>
In reply to#502625
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> In article <1c7cdeff-f60a-4002-99e9-533d79196dfb@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>The round thing in the bible could be oval, as far as I can tell.
>>But religious apologists, as they're called, don't have that amongst
>>their various explanations, possibly because it doesn't allow you
>>to deny that the original statement is in any way peculiar.
>>A flavour of anti-scepticism that probably contributed, a bit, 
>>to my eventually abandoning religious belief.
>>
>>Another interpretation that fits the context, I think, is that
>>the object never existed but is being included in an insurance
>>claim after the first destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
>>The redundant measurements possibly are on the insurance form...
>
> Heh.
>>
>>How does salt lose its savour anyway?  Sodium chloride isn't
>>transmuted to a different substance in everyday use.  And if it
>>is, then it isn't much good for clearing paths, either.
>
> Probably by picking up impurities.

Googling, the likeliest bet (other than noting that it wasn't a
chemistry lesson) is the salt itself being dissolved in water, and
eventually leaving nothing but the impurities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:13

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#502667

FromD B Davis <g@crcomp.net>
Date2018-11-19 03:33 +0000
Message-ID<20181118a@crcomp.net>
In reply to#502664
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>> In article <1c7cdeff-f60a-4002-99e9-533d79196dfb@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>The round thing in the bible could be oval, as far as I can tell.
>>>But religious apologists, as they're called, don't have that amongst
>>>their various explanations, possibly because it doesn't allow you
>>>to deny that the original statement is in any way peculiar.
>>>A flavour of anti-scepticism that probably contributed, a bit,
>>>to my eventually abandoning religious belief.
>>>
>>>Another interpretation that fits the context, I think, is that
>>>the object never existed but is being included in an insurance
>>>claim after the first destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
>>>The redundant measurements possibly are on the insurance form...
>>
>> Heh.
>>>
>>>How does salt lose its savour anyway?  Sodium chloride isn't
>>>transmuted to a different substance in everyday use.  And if it
>>>is, then it isn't much good for clearing paths, either.
>>
>> Probably by picking up impurities.
>
> Googling, the likeliest bet (other than noting that it wasn't a
> chemistry lesson) is the salt itself being dissolved in water, and
> eventually leaving nothing but the impurities.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:13

Dissolution's first definition involves the breakdown of minerals such 
as salt. Its second definition concerns debauched living.
    Can anyone cite the Biblical book, chapter, and verse that talks 
about ?fbason? ? 

✍

Thank you,

-- 
Don

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