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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #490212 > unrolled thread

Undeservedly famous

Started byThe Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com>
First post2018-04-13 21:44 -0700
Last post2018-05-05 18:03 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 290 — 42 participants

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Contents

  Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 21:44 -0700
    Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-13 23:30 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-14 03:44 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 10:16 -0400
          Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-14 21:40 +0300
          Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 19:28 -0700
            Re: Undeservedly famous Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-04-15 15:19 +1200
              Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 09:10 -0700
            Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-15 20:11 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:37 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:38 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:43 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-16 13:53 +0000
              Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:32 -0700
                Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 22:21 -0700
                  Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-21 01:39 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:26 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:35 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 18:44 -0600
          Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 23:03 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:35 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-15 16:21 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2018-04-15 23:39 +0000
    Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 06:16 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 11:28 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:34 -0500
      Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 07:45 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 18:59 +0000
    Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-14 16:37 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 16:57 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-14 14:15 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 21:32 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:37 -0700
              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:42 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:25 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:45 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-15 01:01 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:46 -0500
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:47 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:40 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:49 +0000
          Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 16:31 -0700
            Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-15 19:17 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:40 -0600
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:56 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 13:07 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-04-16 21:54 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 15:09 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 22:23 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 16:28 -0700
    Re: Undeservedly famous Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> - 2018-04-14 13:26 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 21:36 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:36 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:46 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:38 -0500
          Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-15 03:53 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:12 +0000
              Re: Undeservedly famous D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-16 00:55 +0000
                Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-16 15:46 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:45 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 13:01 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:02 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:13 +0000
              Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:56 -0600
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:09 +0000
          Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:43 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-15 16:45 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:42 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:41 -0600
        Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:46 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous eichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice) - 2018-04-16 13:05 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 13:19 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-16 19:31 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:29 -0700
    Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:30 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:49 -0400
        Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:17 -0600
          Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:49 -0500
            Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 08:13 -0400
              Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:47 -0600
                Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-15 17:50 +0000
                  Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 14:30 -0600
                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 20:20 +0000
                    Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 15:04 -0600
                      Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-15 14:16 -0700
                        Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:19 -0400
                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:20 +0000
                            Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 16:51 -0600
                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 23:18 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:07 -0600
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-15 19:25 -0700
                                Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 21:12 -0400
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-04-15 22:02 -0300
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-15 22:15 -0700
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-16 17:07 +0300
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2018-04-16 15:25 +0100
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 14:39 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 09:04 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-16 10:29 -0700
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 11:32 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 21:54 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 17:50 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:33 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 14:19 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-16 12:35 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 09:02 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:56 +0300
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 13:45 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 21:56 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 19:16 -0700
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:33 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 21:00 -0600
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:36 +0000
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-16 01:03 -0600
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 22:59 -0500
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 13:37 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 19:09 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 19:45 +0000
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 21:15 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 16:11 -0700
                                                Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 14:34 -0700
                                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 17:31 -0700
                                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-20 05:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 22:41 -0700
                                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 08:41 -0700
                                                          Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:03 -0700
                                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:40 -0700
                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 08:40 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2018-04-18 20:04 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:17 -0500
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 06:27 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-21 10:37 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:38 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-18 21:15 -0600
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:15 -0500
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:26 +0100
                                Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 05:25 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 13:35 +0000
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 19:32 +0000
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:28 -0400
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 01:06 -0400
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 22:58 -0400
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 03:40 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-19 04:45 +0000
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-19 04:51 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:24 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:23 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-19 19:13 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:32 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:35 +0000
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:05 -0600
                                Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:37 -0600
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 19:24 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 04:54 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 16:04 -0500
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 13:34 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:26 -0500
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:37 +0000
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 10:03 -0700
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 17:07 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 19:12 +0000
                                                Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 12:34 -0700
                                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-04-21 23:13 +0200
                                                    Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 21:18 +0000
                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 15:19 -0700
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 16:03 -0500
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-04-20 22:02 -0300
                            Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:58 -0400
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:12 -0600
                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:05 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 05:29 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 23:07 -0500
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:36 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 08:00 -0700
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:38 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 22:54 -0500
                              Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 22:59 -0400
                              Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:10 -0500
                                Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 06:25 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:41 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-21 09:39 -0600
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-21 15:24 -0700
                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:17 +0000
                          Re: Undeservedly famous Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:10 -0400
                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:01 +0000
                          Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 21:15 -0400
                          Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:15 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:38 +0000
                            Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:41 +0100
                          Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-16 15:23 -0700
                            Re: Undeservedly famous Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-16 15:36 -0700
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 16:27 -0700
                                Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:40 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 13:10 -0700
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 22:00 +0000
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 15:36 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-17 17:20 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:39 +0000
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:31 -0400
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 02:41 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:41 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-19 16:14 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 17:33 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:28 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:05 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 20:19 +0000
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-18 05:16 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:52 -0700
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                                          Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-20 02:33 +0000
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                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:38 +0000
                              Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-16 19:07 -0600
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                                        Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-18 23:48 +0000
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                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 19:04 +0000
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                                  Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-18 05:23 +0000
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                                      Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-19 04:30 +0000
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                                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:41 +0000
                                                Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-23 15:56 -0500
                                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-23 21:24 +0000
                                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 02:25 -0700
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                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-27 05:25 +0000
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                  Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 13:47 -0600
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#490412

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-04-16 01:03 +0000
Message-ID<p796x7.17wz@kithrup.com>
In reply to#490399
In article <0001HW.208421DA03ABF2C770000942D2CF@news.supernews.com>,
Wolffan  <akwolffan@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 15 Apr 2018, Dorothy J Heydt wrote
>(in article <p78z87.sKv@kithrup.com>):
>
>> In article<pb0eok$u1d$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>> > On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> > > In article<fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>> > > Ted Nolan <tednolan>  <tednolan>  wrote:
>> > > > In article<pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> > > > David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>> > > > > On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> > > > > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>> > > > > > <daviddelaney@earthlink.net>  wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On 2018-04-15, David Johnston<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>> > > > > > > > On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > And it seems we are heading in that direction, with
>bigger and bigger
>> > > > > > > > > televisions with more and more channels of crappier
>and crappier
>> > > > > > > > > entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > *bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now,
>rather than in
>> > > > > > > paper
>> > > > > > > books, newspapers, and magazines.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>> > > >
>> > > > I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.
>> > > > Despite
>> > > > being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got
>> > > > my
>> > > > kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>> > > > collections and reference books.
>> > >
>> > > I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>> > > Amazon felt like it.
>> >
>> > ...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
>> > done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
>> > because I don't synch my Kindle.
>>
>> Heh. Since I don't *have* a Kindle -- and if I had, have no idea
>> how one would "synch" it
>
>don’t let it connect to the internet. Same applies with Kindle software on 
>Android or Apple tablets, or on desktops or laptops.
>
Hm.  That would also mean you couldn't download anything from
Kindle (or other source) onto it in the first place, which makes
it even safer.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
>

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#490423

FromDavid Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>
Date2018-04-15 20:53 -0600
Message-ID<pb136c$1o61$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#490412
On 2018-04-15 7:03 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <0001HW.208421DA03ABF2C770000942D2CF@news.supernews.com>,
> Wolffan  <akwolffan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2018, Dorothy J Heydt wrote
>> (in article <p78z87.sKv@kithrup.com>):
>>
>>> In article<pb0eok$u1d$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>> On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article<fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>> Ted Nolan <tednolan>  <tednolan>  wrote:
>>>>>> In article<pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>>>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>>>>>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with
>> bigger and bigger
>>>>>>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier
>> and crappier
>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now,
>> rather than in
>>>>>>>>> paper
>>>>>>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.
>>>>>> Despite
>>>>>> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>>>>>> collections and reference books.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>>>>> Amazon felt like it.
>>>>
>>>> ...don't synch your Kindle. That's all it takes. Even if Amazon had
>>>> done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
>>>> because I don't synch my Kindle.
>>>
>>> Heh. Since I don't *have* a Kindle -- and if I had, have no idea
>>> how one would "synch" it
>>
>> don’t let it connect to the internet. Same applies with Kindle software on
>> Android or Apple tablets, or on desktops or laptops.
>>
> Hm.  That would also mean you couldn't download anything from
> Kindle (or other source) onto it in the first place, which makes
> it even safer.
> 

Actually if you have a Kindle you can download all your books via your 
computer move them through a cable to to the KIndle without ever 
synching.  I turned off the wireless connection on my Kindle after first 
setting it up and never used it again.

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#490372

Fromted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
Date2018-04-15 21:07 +0000
Message-ID<fjht9fF22gaU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490365
In article <p78ttv.HG5@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
>>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>>> 
>>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>>> 
>>>
>>>http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>>
>>I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.  Despite
>>being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
>>kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>>collections and reference books.
>
>I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>Amazon felt like it.  The only books I've bought online are
>Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
>

Well,

a) I have all my books unlocked and backed up.

and

b) If that happened, I would just have to buy a hardcopy of whatever I wanted
to re-read.  It's not like I wasn't doing that.  I probably have half a
dozen copies of different books in boxes because it was too much trouble to
locate it over three moves and easier to just order a fresh $0.25 used copy.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#490374

FromWolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-15 17:17 -0400
Message-ID<0001HW.2083F8F503A25D0E70000942D2CF@news.supernews.com>
In reply to#490365
On 15 Apr 2018, Dorothy J Heydt wrote
(in article <p78ttv.HG5@kithrup.com>):

> In article<fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
> Ted Nolan <tednolan>  <tednolan>  wrote:
> > In article<pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
> > David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> > > On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
> > > > <daviddelaney@earthlink.net>  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2018-04-15, David Johnston<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> > > > > > On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > > > > > > And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
> > > > > > > televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
> > > > > > > entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading.
> > > > >
> > > > > Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in
> > > > > paper
> > > > > books, newspapers, and magazines.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
> > > >
> > > > Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
> > >
> > > http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
> >
> > I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print. Despite
> > being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
> > kindle. The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
> > collections and reference books.
>
> I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
> Amazon felt like it. The only books I've bought online are
> Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.

I de-DRM books and park them in calibre (desktop/laptop) or Marvin (iPad) or 
both. Amazon, or Apple, or whoever, can _try_ to evaporate them.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#490379

FromGreg Goss <gossg@gossg.org>
Date2018-04-15 15:32 -0600
Message-ID<fjhunkF2bv1U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490374
Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 15 Apr 2018, Dorothy J Heydt wrote

>> I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>> Amazon felt like it. The only books I've bought online are
>> Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
>
>I de-DRM books and park them in calibre (desktop/laptop) or Marvin (iPad) or 
>both. Amazon, or Apple, or whoever, can _try_ to evaporate them.

I never really finished getting comfortable with Calibre.  The
incentive for Calibre was as a server for my (now-ex-) wife's i-pod
reader.  But an OS upgrade broke the reader, and I don't know if my
wife ever did get back into e-reading at all.

Other than the textbooks provided on a free iPad for her college
courses.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#490378

FromGreg Goss <gossg@gossg.org>
Date2018-04-15 15:29 -0600
Message-ID<fjhuiqF2bv1U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490365
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>Amazon felt like it.  The only books I've bought online are
>Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.


I don't like the kindle or kobo readers on the phone.  So if I buy
books (most often from Kobo, because I've figured out the crack) I
turn them into unlocked ePubs that nobody can take back from me.

Over the past decade, most of my book purchases have been from Baen,
because they make getting books into my phone easy.

(I never "cracked" the Palin biography.  But I never got more than 2/3
of the way through it, either.)
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#490475

Fromwollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman)
Date2018-04-16 19:34 +0000
Message-ID<pb2trh$1k9u$2@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>
In reply to#490365
In article <p78ttv.HG5@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:

>I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>Amazon felt like it.  The only books I've bought online are
>Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.

Gradon's books are DRM-free, so you can download the .epub files
(which are really just specially formatted ZIP files) and back them up
as you wish.  FWIW, the only e-only books I'll buy are non-DRM.

-GAWollman

-- 
Garrett A. Wollman    | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future.  This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers.         | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

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#490488

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-04-16 21:57 +0000
Message-ID<p7At0L.pyw@kithrup.com>
In reply to#490475
In article <pb2trh$1k9u$2@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
Garrett Wollman <wollman@bimajority.org> wrote:
>In article <p78ttv.HG5@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>>Amazon felt like it.  The only books I've bought online are
>>Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.
>
>Gradon's books are DRM-free, so you can download the .epub files
>(which are really just specially formatted ZIP files) and back them up
>as you wish.  FWIW, the only e-only books I'll buy are non-DRM.

Hm.  I may try that ... or get Hal to try it, if he has the time
to experiment.  (Between the Raspberry Pi forums, twenty or so
characters on LotRO, and reading lots of political comment, he
gets kind of busy.)

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490351

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-15 15:04 -0400
Message-ID<8g87dd5ocbidiekqsu4cnme00e2ag0gtfg@4ax.com>
In reply to#490324
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 08:47:09 -0600, David Johnston
<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>
>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>
>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>
>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>> 
>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>> 
>
>http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/

Which shows a decline in reading in all forms, and that is just over 5
years.  Do  you have statistics that go back to, say, the '60s?

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#490354

FromDavid Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>
Date2018-04-15 13:47 -0600
Message-ID<pb0a98$mlf$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#490351
On 2018-04-15 1:04 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 08:47:09 -0600, David Johnston
> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>
>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>>
>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>>
>>
>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
> 
> Which shows a decline in reading in all forms, 

No.  It doesn't.

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#490311

FromGreg Goss <gossg@gossg.org>
Date2018-04-15 05:37 -0600
Message-ID<fjgrr4Fp2b7U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490212
The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

>I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book.  I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
>
>One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_.  And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
>
>I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story.  I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates.  A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.   I prefer to just avoid them.
>
>But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.

Entire authors.  I grew up in a "drought" era for SF, so my
read-everything reflex kept coming back to these.

Bradbury never resonated well with me.  Norton seemed overrated.
Anything by Van Vogt was horrid.  

Nothing by Zelazny really worked for me, except "Doorways in the Sand"
which my internal indexing scheme continues to insist was a Robinette.
(Maybe that's why I liked it?)
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#490335

From"artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com>
Date2018-04-15 09:13 -0700
Message-ID<e59ff22b-ba52-47b6-b451-4e1ceca45150@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490212
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:44:44 AM UTC-4, The  Zygon wrote:
> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap.

Blood Music. I suppose it doesn't help that I am a biologist. (I didn't care for Jurassic Park either). Then there was Darwin's Radio, which IIRC, did not get a good reception here because of the science. The science I ignored. The main characters disappointed me by not dying.

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#490529

FromRichard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-17 08:33 -0700
Message-ID<547ddc8d-9eaa-441b-a1f1-b9398b700361@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490212
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:44:44 AM UTC-4, The  Zygon wrote:
> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book.  I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
> 
> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_.  And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
> 
> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story.  I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates.  A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.   I prefer to just avoid them.
> 
> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.

Harry Potter.  It's not that I hate it with the heat of a thousand supernovae or anything.  I read my niece's copy of the first one over a Christmas holiday visit back in the '90s.  My response was that it was solidly in the tradition of British children's literature that an adult could enjoy reading, but nothing extraordinary.  I read half of the second one the following year's visit, but didn't have time to finish it.  I have never bothered to finish it.

My ten-year old daughter just last week asked for a copy.  She is into Hunger Games, which is very current with her generation.  (It can't be a good thing that a ten year old knows the word "dystopia" and can use it correctly in a sentence.)  My sense was that Harry Potter was passe with the elementary school set.  She has known about it all along, but never was interested.  So I was surprised when she asked for it, but happily got her a copy.  Maybe I will borrow it to see if my opinion changes.

Richard R. Hershberger

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#490530

Fromted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
Date2018-04-17 16:06 +0000
Message-ID<fjmkbmF3ojmU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490529
In article <547ddc8d-9eaa-441b-a1f1-b9398b700361@googlegroups.com>,
Richard Hershberger  <rrhersh@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:44:44 AM UTC-4, The  Zygon wrote:
>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is
>quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see
>what is so great about the story or book.  I suspect that many people
>know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they
>think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
>> 
>> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is
>_Spider Robinson_.  And one story whose fame I don't quite get is
>_Fahrenheit 451_.
>> 
>> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this
>story.  I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological
>debates.  A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other,
>other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.   I prefer to just avoid
>them.
>> 
>> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
>
>Harry Potter.  It's not that I hate it with the heat of a thousand
>supernovae or anything.  I read my niece's copy of the first one over a
>Christmas holiday visit back in the '90s.  My response was that it was
>solidly in the tradition of British children's literature that an adult
>could enjoy reading, but nothing extraordinary.  I read half of the
>second one the following year's visit, but didn't have time to finish
>it.  I have never bothered to finish it.
>
>My ten-year old daughter just last week asked for a copy.  She is into
>Hunger Games, which is very current with her generation.  (It can't be a
>good thing that a ten year old knows the word "dystopia" and can use it
>correctly in a sentence.)  My sense was that Harry Potter was passe with
>the elementary school set.  She has known about it all along, but never
>was interested.  So I was surprised when she asked for it, but happily
>got her a copy.  Maybe I will borrow it to see if my opinion changes.
>
>Richard R. Hershberger

IMHO, Rowling is a much better storyteller than writer, and when her story
is on (Harry & Dumbledore in the cavern) it's awesome.

She's also very good at layering and reveals in HP.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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#490533

FromKevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
Date2018-04-17 10:35 -0700
Message-ID<f1562974-0fc3-468c-9273-2516f7f36296@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490529
On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:33:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Hershberger wrote:
> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:44:44 AM UTC-4, The  Zygon wrote:
> > I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book.  I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them.
> > 
> > One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_.  And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_.
> > 
> > I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story.  I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates.  A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.   I prefer to just avoid them.
> > 
> > But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others.
> 
> Harry Potter.  It's not that I hate it with the heat of a thousand supernovae or anything.  I read my niece's copy of the first one over a Christmas holiday visit back in the '90s.  My response was that it was solidly in the tradition of British children's literature that an adult could enjoy reading, but nothing extraordinary.  I read half of the second one the following year's visit, but didn't have time to finish it.  I have never bothered to finish it.
> 
> My ten-year old daughter just last week asked for a copy.  She is into Hunger Games, which is very current with her generation.  (It can't be a good thing that a ten year old knows the word "dystopia" and can use it correctly in a sentence.)  My sense was that Harry Potter was passe with the elementary school set.  She has known about it all along, but never was interested.  So I was surprised when she asked for it, but happily got her a copy.  Maybe I will borrow it to see if my opinion changes.


I give credit to Rowling and her editors for launching a series where
the child characters age with the target reading audience.  OK, so
others have done that, but I am much more familiar with multi-
volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to the same
age, maybe aging one or two years over the entire series.

Whether we are talking Ramona Quimby or Rabbit Angstrom, detailing 
the long unfolding* of a person's life can be tricky.

The US doesn't have as strong a "school story" tradition as the UK 
has, though most "kids my age" might have at least seen a movie
version of "Tom Brown's Schooldays" or "Goodbye, Mr Chips." Then
there was Knowles' "A Separate Peace," assigned reading for us in
second year of High school. ["...my knees bent, and I jounced the limb."
See, Sr Evelyn, I still remember it!] 

Perhaps kids in the US respond as much or more to the unusual-
to-them boarding school setting as they do to the magickal schtick?

Kevin R

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#490540

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-04-17 19:10 +0000
Message-ID<p7CFyA.1yJ@kithrup.com>
In reply to#490533
In article <f1562974-0fc3-468c-9273-2516f7f36296@googlegroups.com>,
Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:33:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Hershberger wrote:
>> 
>> My ten-year old daughter just last week asked for a copy.  She is into
>Hunger Games, which is very current with her generation.  (It can't be a
>good thing that a ten year old knows the word "dystopia" and can use it
>correctly in a sentence.)  My sense was that Harry Potter was passe with
>the elementary school set.  She has known about it all along, but never
>was interested.  So I was surprised when she asked for it, but happily
>got her a copy.  Maybe I will borrow it to see if my opinion changes.
>
>
>I give credit to Rowling and her editors for launching a series where
>the child characters age with the target reading audience.  OK, so
>others have done that, but I am much more familiar with multi-
>volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to the same
>age, maybe aging one or two years over the entire series.

Laura Ingalls Wilder did the same thing.

....
>
>The US doesn't have as strong a "school story" tradition as the UK 
>has ....

Most of us don't go to boarding schools, and have less to
identify with.  That's another thing Rowling accomplished:
getting USian kids interested in a milieu with which they are
unfamiliar.

Of course, Narnia does much the same.

....
>
>Perhaps kids in the US respond as much or more to the unusual-
>to-them boarding school setting as they do to the magickal schtick?

Maybe they do.  I was never attracted to boarding-school stories,
but I was born in 1942 and have spent my whole life in the US; I
don't think I ever encountered many of them.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490549

FromKevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
Date2018-04-17 13:24 -0700
Message-ID<36083577-6412-478c-8c8e-220d2a80669f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490540
On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 3:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <f1562974-0fc3-468c-9273-2516f7f36296@googlegroups.com>,
> Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:33:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Hershberger wrote:
> >> 
> >> My ten-year old daughter just last week asked for a copy.  She is into
> >Hunger Games, which is very current with her generation.  (It can't be a
> >good thing that a ten year old knows the word "dystopia" and can use it
> >correctly in a sentence.)  My sense was that Harry Potter was passe with
> >the elementary school set.  She has known about it all along, but never
> >was interested.  So I was surprised when she asked for it, but happily
> >got her a copy.  Maybe I will borrow it to see if my opinion changes.
> >
> >
> >I give credit to Rowling and her editors for launching a series where
> >the child characters age with the target reading audience.  OK, so
> >others have done that, but I am much more familiar with multi-
> >volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to the same
> >age, maybe aging one or two years over the entire series.
> 
> Laura Ingalls Wilder did the same thing.

Of course, Wilder's* works were autobiographical

> 
> ....
> >
> >The US doesn't have as strong a "school story" tradition as the UK 
> >has ....
> 
> Most of us don't go to boarding schools, and have less to
> identify with.  That's another thing Rowling accomplished:
> getting USian kids interested in a milieu with which they are
> unfamiliar.
> 
> Of course, Narnia does much the same.
> 
> ....
> >
> >Perhaps kids in the US respond as much or more to the unusual-
> >to-them boarding school setting as they do to the magickal schtick?
> 
> Maybe they do.  I was never attracted to boarding-school stories,
> but I was born in 1942 and have spent my whole life in the US; I
> don't think I ever encountered many of them.

The boarding school setting removes those dedicated enemies
of adventure: parents!  As you know, Bob, missing parents,
or dead ones, or ones living in Deepest Peru while one stays
with relatives or is sent off to school, is almost an requirement
of childrens' adventure stories.  Not every kid is lucky
enough to be a Quest or a Hardy, scoffing at the DCF or CPS
bureaucrats' notions of what is "good clean fun" for kids
or teens v "child endangerment."

Edward Stratemeyer had huge success with the much imitated
"Rover Boys." They were 14-16 when sent to military school.
ES made a mint on them, and others that followed: Hardy Boys,
Nancy Drew, Bobbsey Twins, and, of course, Tom Swift.

I think I first encountered the Rover Boys in the Warner 
cartoon parody, "The Dover Boys."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dover_Boys

The Rovers grew up, had kids, and the 2nd generation
had their own book series. Same for Tom Swift and TS, Jr.

Kevin R

* With the editorial contributions of her daughter, Rose Wilder Lane, 
  being significant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Wilder_Lane

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#490551

FromRichard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-17 13:46 -0700
Message-ID<1c9f1ad8-5180-445f-b90f-25e704b98334@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490540
On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 3:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <f1562974-0fc3-468c-9273-2516f7f36296@googlegroups.com>,
> Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:33:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Hershberger wrote:
> >> 
> >> My ten-year old daughter just last week asked for a copy.  She is into
> >Hunger Games, which is very current with her generation.  (It can't be a
> >good thing that a ten year old knows the word "dystopia" and can use it
> >correctly in a sentence.)  My sense was that Harry Potter was passe with
> >the elementary school set.  She has known about it all along, but never
> >was interested.  So I was surprised when she asked for it, but happily
> >got her a copy.  Maybe I will borrow it to see if my opinion changes.
> >
> >
> >I give credit to Rowling and her editors for launching a series where
> >the child characters age with the target reading audience.  OK, so
> >others have done that, but I am much more familiar with multi-
> >volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to the same
> >age, maybe aging one or two years over the entire series.
> 
> Laura Ingalls Wilder did the same thing.

See also:  Anne of Green Gables.

Richard R. Hershberger

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#491398

FromJoe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-01 00:44 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA8D4B482CE23Kdeuramagmailcom@85.214.115.223>
In reply to#490551
Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> wrote in 
news:1c9f1ad8-5180-445f-b90f-25e704b98334@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 3:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

>> In article <f1562974-0fc3-468c-9273-2516f7f36296@googlegroups.com>,
>> Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:

>> >I give credit to Rowling and her editors for launching a series where
>> >the child characters age with the target reading audience.  OK, so
>> >others have done that, but I am much more familiar with multi-
>> >volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to the same
>> >age, maybe aging one or two years over the entire series.

>> Laura Ingalls Wilder did the same thing.

I have the horrible suspicion that both the most recent posters were 
using unclear antecedents.  I read these posts as saying that Wilder 
and the "Anne of Green Gables" series did the same thing as the 
"multi-volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to the 
same age", not the same thing as "the child characters age with the 
target reading audience".

That said.  I bailed after Wilder's first book.  I'm not sure either 
reading of Ms. Heydt's post correctly describes the series, from what 
I remember of the inquiries I made *before* reading that book, but 
years later I have no business arguing.

On the other hand:

> See also:  Anne of Green Gables.

I haven't re-read these in some time, so can't go by memory here, but 
I remember paying a lot of attention to chronology when I wrote about 
Montgomery's series in my book log, and remembered right.  Here's 
what I said back in 2007, with publication years inserted:

| <Anne of Green Gables> [1908] ...  Other men not fathers of girls 
| may need to be told that it's the story, ages 11 to 16, of an 
| extraordinary orphan girl (Anne Shirley) and the ordinary people 
| who adopt her.  These sequels, while none as good, don't let down 
| the side.  <Avonlea> [1909] shows Anne as a young teacher; in 
| <Island> [1915], she's in college and in love; <Rainbow Valley> 
| [1919] has her kids young, <Rilla> [1921] older and involved in 
| both love and war; <House of Dreams> [1922] covers the first year 
| or two of Anne's marriage ...

(Later in the log I discussed the other two sequels published in the 
1930s, but without similar attention to chronology.  They're both 
infill books, however, so problematic for any claim Montgomery used 
Rowling's strategy; <House of Dreams> is also an infill book.)

Anyway, what I said isn't consistent with either reading of your post.  
Montgomery didn't keep Anne the same age even in the first book; nor  
did she age her a year per book, *nor* publish a book per year.

Can you show that I was wrong?  Otherwise, could you please explain 
what you meant?

Joe Bernstein

-- 
Joe Bernstein                                    <Kdeurama@gmail.com>

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#491434

From"Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com>
Date2018-05-01 16:00 +0000
Message-ID<pca2u4$f5m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#491398
Joe Bernstein wrote:

> Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> wrote in 
> news:1c9f1ad8-5180-445f-b90f-25e704b98334@googlegroups.com:
> 
> > On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 3:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt
> > wrote:
> 
> >> In article <f1562974-0fc3-468c-9273-2516f7f36296@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
> 
> >> >I give credit to Rowling and her editors for launching a series
> where >> >the child characters age with the target reading audience.
> OK, so >> >others have done that, but I am much more familiar with
> multi- >> >volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to
> the same >> >age, maybe aging one or two years over the entire series.
> 
> >> Laura Ingalls Wilder did the same thing.
> 
> I have the horrible suspicion that both the most recent posters were 
> using unclear antecedents.  I read these posts as saying that Wilder 
> and the "Anne of Green Gables" series did the same thing as the 
> "multi-volume kids' series where the protagonists stay close to the 
> same age", not the same thing as "the child characters age with the 
> target reading audience".

I think the lack of clarity is in your own mind. The paragraph had a
special credit to Rowling, so this was (to me) clearly the "thing" to
which Dorothy indicated when she said that Wilder did the same. And of
course, the most basic of research would have told you that.

> That said.  I bailed after Wilder's first book.  I'm not sure either 
> reading of Ms. Heydt's post correctly describes the series, from what 
> I remember of the inquiries I made before reading that book, but 
> years later I have no business arguing.

Wilder's books were roughly autobiographical. Reportedly she changed
the age of her character in the first book at the suggestion of the
publisher (to make her a few years older) but skipped some events
before the next book so that the ages were basically correct from that
point on.


Brian

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