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Semi-YASID - independence

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  Semi-YASID - independence mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-24 10:54 -0700
    Re: Semi-YASID - independence "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-06-24 20:15 -0400
      Re: Semi-YASID - independence djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-25 00:17 +0000
      Re: Semi-YASID - independence Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-24 18:22 -0700
        Re: Semi-YASID - independence Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-26 23:39 -0700
          Re: Semi-YASID - independence Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2016-06-29 15:01 +0000
    Re: Semi-YASID - independence ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-25 04:00 +0000
      Re: Semi-YASID - independence mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-24 21:47 -0700
    Re: Semi-YASID - independence nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) - 2016-06-25 18:14 +0000
      Re: Semi-YASID - independence Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-26 00:55 +0000

#442991 — Semi-YASID - independence

I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if my memory is playing tricks on me.

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#442994

On 6/24/16 1:54 PM, mcdowell_ag@sky.com wrote:
> I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if my memory is playing tricks on me.
>


	In one form or another that was in more than one episode of Trek. 
Probably the best example is "The Apple" which has Kirk say something 
like that to the former servants of Vaal.


	


-- 
                      Sea Wasp
                        /^\
                        ;;;	
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com  Blog: 
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

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#442998

In article <nkkie6$hrr$1@dont-email.me>,
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 6/24/16 1:54 PM, mcdowell_ag@sky.com wrote:
>> I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at
>the end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have
>to face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous
>state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this
>is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if
>my memory is playing tricks on me.
>>
>
>
>	In one form or another that was in more than one episode of Trek. 
>Probably the best example is "The Apple" which has Kirk say something 
>like that to the former servants of Vaal.
>
I was going to say "The Machine Stops," but that wasn't ST.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#443000

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 6:15:05 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 6/24/16 1:54 PM, mcdowell_ag@sky.com wrote:
> > I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if my memory is playing tricks on me.
 
> 	In one form or another that was in more than one episode of Trek. 
> Probably the best example is "The Apple" which has Kirk say something 
> like that to the former servants of Vaal.

I can't *really* recall an episode of the original Star Trek which meets that 
description, even though, in addition to "The Apple", "The Omega Glory" might 
also fit that description. Or even "The Gamesters of Triskelion", but I'm not 
sure.

John Savard

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#443105

On Saturday, 25 June 2016 02:22:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc  wrote:
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 6:15:05 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> > On 6/24/16 1:54 PM, mcdowell_ag@sky.com wrote:
> > > I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if my memory is playing tricks on me.
>  
> > 	In one form or another that was in more than one episode of Trek. 
> > Probably the best example is "The Apple" which has Kirk say something 
> > like that to the former servants of Vaal.
> 
> I can't *really* recall an episode of the original Star Trek which meets that 
> description, even though, in addition to "The Apple", "The Omega Glory" might 
> also fit that description. Or even "The Gamesters of Triskelion", but I'm not 
> sure.

Indeed there is a speech by Kirk at the end of 
"The Gamesters of Triskelion", specifically that 
the freed gladiators have a lot to learn in order
to govern themselves - although not that it's
harder than their previous situation, of fighting
each other to the death (you presume /occasionally/) 
to amuse the glowing brains.

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#443238

On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:39:57 in article <f64b615c-a386-4271-8ef6-720de6f28938@googlegroups.com> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 25 June 2016 02:22:15 UTC+1, Quadibloc  wrote:
>> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 6:15:05 PM UTC-6, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> > On 6/24/16 1:54 PM, mcdowell_ag@sky.com wrote:
>> > > I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if my memory is playing tricks on me.
>>  
>> >     In one form or another that was in more than one episode of Trek. 
>> > Probably the best example is "The Apple" which has Kirk say something 
>> > like that to the former servants of Vaal.
>> 
>> I can't *really* recall an episode of the original Star Trek which meets that 
>> description, even though, in addition to "The Apple", "The Omega Glory" might 
>> also fit that description. Or even "The Gamesters of Triskelion", but I'm not 
>> sure.
> 
> Indeed there is a speech by Kirk at the end of 
> "The Gamesters of Triskelion", specifically that 
> the freed gladiators have a lot to learn in order
> to govern themselves - although not that it's
> harder than their previous situation, of fighting
> each other to the death (you presume /occasionally/) 
> to amuse the glowing brains.

And at the end of "The Omega Glory" Kirk tells Cloud William that
it isn't enough for the Yangs to worship freedom.  Now that they've
finally achieved freedom, they must work to apply their "holy words"
(the Preamble to the US Constitution) to *everyone* -- including the
enemies they've just defeated -- or else they mean nothing.

-- 
F. Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net>

      ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)

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#443007

In article <142e1024-aeee-429a-bf24-2c28d1896e8a@googlegroups.com>,
 <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the
>end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to
>face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous
>state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this
>is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if
>my memory is playing tricks on me.

Didn't that just happen last night?

Oh.. SF..

Well, in Trek, you could make a case for Kirk's "I will not kill today"
speech in "A Taste of Armageddon".  Also a theme of _Animal Farm_ I suppose.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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#443012

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 5:00:28 AM UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <142e1024-aeee-429a-bf24-2c28d1896e8a@googlegroups.com>,
>  <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
> >I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the
> >end of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to
> >face up to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous
> >state. Can anybody point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this
> >is a hackneyed cliche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if
> >my memory is playing tricks on me.
> 
> Didn't that just happen last night?
> 
> Oh.. SF..
> 
> Well, in Trek, you could make a case for Kirk's "I will not kill today"
> speech in "A Taste of Armageddon".  Also a theme of _Animal Farm_ I suppose.
> -- 
> ------
> columbiaclosings.com
> What's not in Columbia anymore..

The query was indeed triggered by me thinking about (in fact talking about) recent events. However I wanted to concentrate on the SF aspects here. Those of you deprived by geography of referendum related invective could do worse than http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2016/06/tomorrow-belongs-to-me.html and the comments to it, but you may find your own local invective no less/no more illuminating.

Thanks to all who answered

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#443024

In <142e1024-aeee-429a-bf24-2c28d1896e8a@googlegroups.com> mcdowell_ag@sky.com writes:

>I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the en=
>d of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to face up=
> to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous state. Can any=
>body point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this is a hackneyed c=
>liche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if my memory is playi=
>ng tricks on me.

        You're likely thinking of 'The Return Of The Archons'.  As Kirk 
gets closer to blowing up the (SPOILER) all-powerful computer-god ruling 
over the planet, the members of the local resistance that he's teamed up 
with in the one episode that *has* such a movement get cold feet and fear 
they've destroyed themselves.  Kirk slaps them, possibly only as a 
metaphor, explaining to them it isn't that easy.  And in the end, indeed, 
the locals have what they wanted: instead of a peaceful, prosperous, and 
contented world they've got public brawls and domestic abuse again.  



-- 
                                                                Joseph Nebus
 Math: Theorem Thursday: A First Fixed Point Theorem   http://wp.me/p1RYhY-12h
Humor: Stuff In Town That I Won't See                  http://wp.me/p37lb5-1h7 
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------

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#443040

Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
> In <142e1024-aeee-429a-bf24-2c28d1896e8a@googlegroups.com> mcdowell_ag@sky.com writes:
>
>>I think I can remember Star Trek episodes or possibly SF in which at the en=
>>d of the story a population is free, but they get told they have to face up=
>> to the fact that freedom is harder work than their previous state. Can any=
>>body point to anything specific? I'm happy to be told this is a hackneyed c=
>>liche, or bad politics, or both, but I'd like to know if my memory is playi=
>>ng tricks on me.
>
>        You're likely thinking of 'The Return Of The Archons'.  As Kirk
> gets closer to blowing up the (SPOILER) all-powerful computer-god ruling
> over the planet, the members of the local resistance that he's teamed up
> with in the one episode that *has* such a movement get cold feet and fear
> they've destroyed themselves.  Kirk slaps them, possibly only as a
> metaphor, explaining to them it isn't that easy.  And in the end, indeed,
> the locals have what they wanted: instead of a peaceful, prosperous, and
> contented world they've got public brawls and domestic abuse again.

It was hardly all sweetness and light when the computer ran the show.
Everybody walked around like zombies. After a while they all moaned
about how the Enterprise crew was not of the body. Then there was an
augmented Orwellian two minute hate called Festival. Anything went
during Festival, including rape and mayhem.

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU


See the little phrases go,
  Watch their funny antics.
The men who make them wiggle so
  Are teachers of Semantics.

The words go up, the words go round
  And make a great commotion,
But all that lies behind the sound
  Is hebetude Boeotian.

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