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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #423869 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Ronald Bruck <rbruck@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-09-29 17:53 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-10-03 16:39 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 153 — 39 participants |
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Can anyone remember...? Ronald Bruck <rbruck@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:53 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-09-30 01:31 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Adamastor Glace Mortimer <nospam@no.invalid> - 2015-10-02 18:09 +0200
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-02 16:24 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-10-02 14:43 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-02 22:17 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-10-02 18:56 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-02 20:36 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 16:06 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 02:24 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 23:08 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 05:29 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:35 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 23:19 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-02 23:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2015-10-03 00:23 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-03 10:09 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-03 08:59 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:39 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 21:49 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 22:53 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 13:16 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 09:59 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:30 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:41 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-04 15:10 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-10-07 14:50 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-07 13:58 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-07 07:21 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-08 04:36 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-08 07:40 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-07 18:20 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-08 00:22 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-08 02:55 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2015-10-09 02:03 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-09 19:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-10 08:17 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-07 23:15 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-08 04:41 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-08 00:29 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-08 08:24 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-08 07:31 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-08 00:19 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 18:26 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 16:49 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 13:24 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 17:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:37 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 10:45 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:47 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 17:57 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 06:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-10-04 09:25 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:32 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 10:52 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-10-04 21:58 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan) - 2015-10-05 03:15 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 00:10 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 05:31 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-06 19:48 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-06 21:54 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-07 09:27 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-07 11:50 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-07 13:49 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 13:52 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 19:10 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-05 08:14 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:41 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 18:37 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 15:34 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 02:38 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-04 03:38 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 06:26 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 13:19 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2015-10-04 15:26 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 16:20 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-04 10:46 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-05 04:30 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-04 08:26 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-04 12:54 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 13:49 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:37 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:43 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 18:12 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 22:06 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-04 15:08 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-10-05 17:18 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-07 07:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-06 20:11 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-07 04:26 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-04 15:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-10-13 16:15 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-10-03 09:09 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 13:54 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 11:24 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:35 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 17:27 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:28 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 14:47 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:45 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 07:22 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 13:20 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 13:51 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:54 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2015-10-05 11:38 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-05 11:56 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-05 14:35 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-10-05 23:08 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 01:03 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 09:39 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 16:59 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 16:49 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:42 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 21:51 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 15:32 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-05 08:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 16:48 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan) - 2015-10-03 22:29 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-03 06:31 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 14:57 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-03 16:19 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 18:50 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 19:14 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? - Slight thread drift BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:54 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-10-13 16:15 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-13 10:33 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-13 13:25 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-13 17:57 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-05 08:45 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-05 11:54 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-06 01:10 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:30 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2015-10-03 00:30 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 06:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-03 14:37 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 06:34 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2015-10-04 15:04 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:57 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-02 23:58 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 15:08 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-02 23:52 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 15:10 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-05 08:34 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con> - 2015-09-29 19:07 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-09-30 13:42 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-10-01 03:25 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 19:22 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 23:03 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-09-29 21:15 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-09-29 22:20 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-09-30 13:46 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2015-10-03 16:39 +0000
Page 3 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-08 08:24 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mv5nab$468$1@panix3.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #424296 |
In article <mv5613$g4q$1@speranza.aioe.org>, BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> said: > William December Starr wrote: > >> I'm not saying that that's the case here, but with Lockheed >> being a major defense contractor it's certainly a possibility. >> (Assuming that the report is accurate in the first place.) > > Are you doubting my veracity? > > And at one time I worked as a software engineer for Lockheed > (until the MFs laid me off) but not up at the Rocket > Ranch. This particular facility is/was used for various > explosive testings and such. It used to be much more active > than it is now. No offense intended... it was hard to tell whether you were reporting personally known facts or just passing on something you'd once heard. (I don't know whether you've previously mentioned your Lockheed experience here; if you have it obviously slipped my mind.) -- wds
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| From | petertrei@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-08 07:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e43136ae-f23e-49aa-bd0d-bb05099f6d21@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #424304 |
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 8:24:46 AM UTC-4, William December Starr wrote: > In article <mv5613$g4q$1@speranza.aioe.org>, > BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> said: > > > William December Starr wrote: > > > >> I'm not saying that that's the case here, but with Lockheed > >> being a major defense contractor it's certainly a possibility. > >> (Assuming that the report is accurate in the first place.) > > > > Are you doubting my veracity? > > > > And at one time I worked as a software engineer for Lockheed > > (until the MFs laid me off) but not up at the Rocket > > Ranch. This particular facility is/was used for various > > explosive testings and such. It used to be much more active > > than it is now. > > No offense intended... it was hard to tell whether you were > reporting personally known facts or just passing on something > you'd once heard. (I don't know whether you've previously > mentioned your Lockheed experience here; if you have it obviously > slipped my mind.) Just feel like mentioning that last week I got a tour of the Lockheed facility where they perform final assembly on F-35s. Cool beans indeed. pt
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| From | BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-08 00:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mv55fr$djf$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #424262 |
On 10/7/15 6:50 AM, Raymond Daley wrote: > Somebody wrote>> >>> [stuff deleted] And we have unmarked trucks going to the Lockheed >>> facility up on the hill carrying God Knows What (perclorates anyone?) >>> with a placard saying only "Dangerous" on it. > > Yeah, that sounds SERIOUSLY illegal. I'm also stunned no-one immediately > commented about this either, don't mobile potential health hazards concern > your average American? My guess would be your EPA would be the Department > who regulate this. Your DMV might have a slight involvement too. > > I'm shocked that the US doesn't have similar laws to the UK where you aren't > allowed to drive any hazardous chemicals anywhere at all without displaying > clear signage around the vehicle as to what's aboard. It makes no odds if > this is moving stuff for the Military or Government. There are still rules, > they still apply. The Military are pretty keen on the same labelling rule in > the UK. > >>> I don't know if the driver carries a manifest. > See, under the same UK law, it doesn't matter if he does or not. The vehicle > needs to be the warning. There's not much help the driver knowing what > they're carrying if they end up in any condition where they are unable to > speak. A fire crew needs to know WTF they are dealing with on arrival. So > the vehicle signage removes the needs for any fannying about with manifests. > > Well, since the trucks are in reality US government trucks, they don't have to play by the rules, or so I'm told. DOD classified shipments play by a whole different set of rules. -- Dave Scruggs Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
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| From | Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-19 18:26 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <proto-1EB3AA.18262119102015@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #424166 |
In article <mus2fg$ctv$4@speranza.aioe.org>,
BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On 10/4/15 9:59 AM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 4, 2015 at 6:30:05 AM UTC-7, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <edfccab0-0d24-4bd5-9c09-65a0b150ec19@googlegroups.com>,
> >> nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
> >>> I recommend reading as much of the blog as you can handle (the style
> >>> is quite engaging, at least for this broadly-defined tech geek). There
> >>> are other recurring themes- I will now never be comfortable around
> >>> molecules with lots of nitrogen atoms in them.
> >>
> >> Golly, that must be a problem, considering you are chiefly made
> >> up of such molecules.
> >
> > I was perhaps unclear. Two or more nitrogen atoms can be induced to bond
> > together
> > but they're sort of fickle about staying together. Proteins have lots of
> > nitrogens
> > but they also have lots of carbon to hold the nitrogens together and
> > hydrogen to
> > take up dangling bonds.
> >
> > I meant compounds that are mostly nitrogen, and lots of it at that:
> >
> > http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2013/01/09/things_i_wont_
> > work_with_azidoazide_azides_more_or_less
> >
> > "...the question is not whether such things are going to be explosive
> > hazards...
>
> > The question is whether you're going to be able to get a long enough look
> > at the
> > material before it realizes its dream of turning into an expanding cloud of
> > hot nitrogen gas."
> >
> > C2N14 is described thusly, in part:
> >
> > "The compound exploded in solution, it exploded on any attempts to touch
> > or
> > move the solid, and (most interestingly) it exploded when they were trying
> > to get an
> > infrared spectrum of it."
> >
> > Exploding *in solution*... that's a damned good trick.
> >
> >
> > Mark L. Fergerson
> >
>
> What he said. I ended up spending more time than I should have
> rereading the older parts of the blog and reading the new parts.
> Even though a lot of it is over my head ("I'm a software engineer,
> damn it, not a chemist!") he is quite entertaining. My wife was
> inquiring when I was coming to bed, I said shortly, and a great
> while later, I finally did. She woke up and said, "Was that what
> you think shortly means?", and went back to sleep. She gets me after
> all these years. And stuff like cyanides and thiols and asbestos are
> why I HATE hazmat calls in my other job. There is too much stuff that
> will FUBAR you right now. And we have unmarked trucks going to the
> Lockheed facility up on the hill carrying God Knows What (perclorates
> anyone?) with a placard saying only "Dangerous" on it. I don't know if
> the driver carries a manifest. They may also use hydrazine up there
> too, but I am just guessing. It also has a bad sense of humor.
Evidently to a dangerous chemical specialist, shortly means
milliseconds if not microseconds.
--
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
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| From | William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 16:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mus38f$c59$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424146 |
nuny@bid.nes wrote: > > C2N14 is described thusly, in part: > > "The compound exploded in solution, it exploded on any attempts to touch or > move the solid, and (most interestingly) it exploded when they were trying to > get an infrared spectrum of it." > > Exploding *in solution*... that's a damned good trick. > Not so unusual. Think *organic* solution like in kersosene. Most any strong oxidant will do that.
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| From | "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-05 13:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d13053b1-f925-440f-a593-5737e5fbc2c6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #424170 |
On Sunday, October 4, 2015 at 1:49:16 PM UTC-7, William Vetter wrote: > nuny@bid.nes wrote: > > > > C2N14 is described thusly, in part: > > > > "The compound exploded in solution, it exploded on any attempts to touch > > or move the solid, and (most interestingly) it exploded when they were > > trying to get an infrared spectrum of it." > > > > Exploding *in solution*... that's a damned good trick. > > > Not so unusual. Think *organic* solution like in kersosene. Most any > strong oxidant will do that. The original source papers are paywalled, but the supporting information mentions only DMSO and chloroform as solvents (I find that both are listed as "mild oxidants"): http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/anie.201100300/asset/supinfo/anie_201100300_sm_miscellaneous_information.pdf?v=1&s=a96be433f57c9a4b71ffb1b523d59e9808b77a24 Mark L. Fergerson
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| From | William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-05 17:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <muurbr$1a4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424210 |
nuny@bid.nes wrote: > On Sunday, October 4, 2015 at 1:49:16 PM UTC-7, William Vetter wrote: >> nuny@bid.nes wrote: >>> >>> C2N14 is described thusly, in part: >>> >>> "The compound exploded in solution, it exploded on any attempts to touch >>> or move the solid, and (most interestingly) it exploded when they were >>> trying to get an infrared spectrum of it." >>> >>> Exploding *in solution*... that's a damned good trick. >>> >> Not so unusual. Think *organic* solution like in kersosene. Most any >> strong oxidant will do that. > > The original source papers are paywalled, but the supporting information > mentions only DMSO and chloroform as solvents (I find that both are listed as > "mild oxidants"): > Kerosene and ammonium nitrate is famous, right? Dimethyl sulfoxide and chloroform will burn like hydrocarbon solvents, but not as well. If you mixed them with a strong oxidant it's gonna be dangerous. Like for example, if you condense ozone into a solid with a dry ice bath, and there's much dirt in it, it's gonna explode as soon as it warms.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 21:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nvptDv.J20@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #424146 |
In article <2b01b621-a655-4d55-b78c-ee39129a0b68@googlegroups.com>, nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: >On Sunday, October 4, 2015 at 6:30:05 AM UTC-7, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >> In article <edfccab0-0d24-4bd5-9c09-65a0b150ec19@googlegroups.com>, >> nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: >> >On Saturday, October 3, 2015 at 3:00:15 PM UTC-7, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >> >> In article <XnsA528951D7A943taustingmail@69.16.179.42>, >> >> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> wrote in >> >> >news:muntak$8pu$1@speranza.aioe.org: >> >> > >> >> >> On 10/2/15 11:19 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote: >> >> >>> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 10:35:48 PM UTC-7, Gutless >> >> >>> Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: >> >> >>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in >> >> >>>> news:nvMpww.L4n@kithrup.com: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>, >> >> >>>>> William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >> >> >>>>>>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>, >> >> >>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian >> >> >>>>>>>> and military leadership, in which a political crisis is >> >> >>>>>>>> simulated that could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the >> >> >>>>>>>> military commanders _never_ fire their nukes, even in >> >> >>>>>>>> response to the other side doing so. And the civilian >> >> >>>>>>>> commanders _always_ do so, even with other clear paths to >> >> >>>>>>>> resolve the crisis being available. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might >> >> >>>>>>> have been used after 1945. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General >> >> >>>>>>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. >> >> >>>>>>> MacArthur told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, >> >> >>>>>>> he didn't understand military matters. Truman recalled >> >> >>>>>>> him. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to >> >> >>>>>>> remember when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I >> >> >>>>>>> was in fourth grade." >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the >> >> >>>>>>> circumstances, and he made a speech to Congress: "They say >> >> >>>>>>> old soldiers never die, they just fade away; I am an old >> >> >>>>>>> soldier, and now I shall fade away." >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been >> >> >>>>>>> used, it was the military man who wanted to use them, and >> >> >>>>>>> the lifelong civilian who wouldn't let him. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of >> >> >>>>>> the French at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> There may have been talk. Nobody used them. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared >> >> >>>>> against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. >> >> >>>>> They had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of >> >> >>>>> following a change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, >> >> >>>>> not the enemy's. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>> And was dangerous to handle when not in actual use, and really >> >> >>>> pissed off the enemy, and a variety of other reasons aginst >> >> >>>> it. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> The Nazis made, literally, tons of chlorine triflouride at one >> >> >>>> point, to use as both a weapon and a rocket fuel. But the >> >> >>>> stuff is so dangerous, and a better oxidizer than pure >> >> >>>> oxygen[1], that they decided that wasn't a good idea. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> [1]If you spill it in your lab, whatever you spill it on, >> >> >>>> including the concrete floor, will catch on fire. If you grab >> >> >>>> your handy bucket of sand (no chem lab is complete without >> >> >>>> several) and dump that on it, the sand will catch on fire. If >> >> >>>> you douse it with water, the water will catch on fire. If you >> >> >>>> scoop it into a vacuum chamber and smother it in asbestos, the >> >> >>>> asbestos will catch on fire _in the absence of any atmostphere >> >> >>>> at all_. There is no known way to extinguish it. And the main >> >> >>>> byproducts of it reacting with stuff is chlorine and fluorine >> >> >>>> gas. (And it's not *nearly* as dangerous as dioxygen >> >> >>>> diflouride, which causes ice to catch on fire at 270 degrees >> >> >>>> below zero.) >> >> >>> >> >> >>> And then there's the appropriately named FOOF. This guy >> >> >>> details those and other truly terrifying chemicals: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/ >> >> >>> >> >> >>> It's the sort of stuff some hard SF author ought to use, but >> >> >>> editors would probably not believe it. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Mark L. Fergerson >> >> >>> >> >> >> I have read the link, and a bunch of other stuff there. There >> >> >> seems to be a recurring theme there: fluorine. Nasty stuff. I >> >> >> got the impression that FOOF would explode if someone in the >> >> >> next room even thought about it. At least ClF3 has an industrial >> >> >> use. >> >> >> >> >> >It's used to clean circuit boards in some kinds of electronics >> >> >manufacturing, and to clean uranium oxides from the inside of >> >> >reactor chambers. Industrial use, but not in industrial quantities >> >> >(thankfully). >> >> > >> >> Hmmmm. Saved to disk, because I may have fictional use for this. >> > >> > :>) >> > >> > I recommend reading as much of the blog as you can handle (the style >> >is quite engaging, at least for this broadly-defined tech geek). There >> >are other recurring themes- I will now never be comfortable around >> >molecules with lots of nitrogen atoms in them. >> >> Golly, that must be a problem, considering you are chiefly made >> up of such molecules. > > I was perhaps unclear. Two or more nitrogen atoms can be induced to >bond together but they're sort of fickle about staying together. >Proteins have lots of nitrogens but they also have lots of carbon to >hold the nitrogens together and hydrogen to take up dangling bonds. > > I meant compounds that are mostly nitrogen, and lots of it at that: > >http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2013/01/09/things_i_wont_work_with_azidoazide_azides_more_or_less > > "...the question is not whether such things are going to be explosive >hazards... The question is whether you're going to be able to get a long >enough look at the material before it realizes its dream of turning into >an expanding cloud of hot nitrogen gas." > > C2N14 is described thusly, in part: > > "The compound exploded in solution, it exploded on any attempts to >touch or move the solid, and (most interestingly) it exploded when they >were trying to get an infrared spectrum of it." > > Exploding *in solution*... that's a damned good trick. Yup. I may want something toxic in my fictional chip factory, but not something that explodes *quite* that readily. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress. Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
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| From | Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 10:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA5296D71EDC13taustingmail@69.16.179.42> |
| In reply to | #424114 |
"nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote in
news:edfccab0-0d24-4bd5-9c09-65a0b150ec19@googlegroups.com:
> I recommend reading as much of the blog as you can handle (the
> style is quite engaging, at least for this broadly-defined
> tech geek). There are other recurring themes- I will now never
> be comfortable around molecules with lots of nitrogen atoms in
> them.
>
In particular, the "things I won't work with" section. The rest is
interesting, but less entertaining.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
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| From | William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-05 15:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <muuk1i$2ll$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424114 |
nuny@bid.nes wrote: > > I recommend reading as much of the blog as you can handle (the style is > quite engaging, at least for this broadly-defined tech geek). There are other > recurring themes- I will now never be comfortable around molecules with lots > of nitrogen atoms in them. > I read a few of them. I saw some mistakes. He said nickel carbonyl is toxic because the carbonyls are labile and carbon monoxide bonds to hemoglobin. That's certainly not the mechanism of toxicity, and I don't think the carbon monoxide comes off so easily at body temperature. These kind of fantastic lab accidents are rare; the common ones being like somebody boils a liquid inside a sealed tube until it the pressure exceeds the bursting force of the glass, or somebody condenses a gas inside a pressure vessel and hangs around until it boils. Or somebody dumps water into dried-up looking residue left from drying solvents with metallic sodium and it explodes. That can make you just as dead as FOOF. When you talk like a braggart about these things, especially to young students, they often laugh in your face, and then you need to fire them to protect yourself liability.
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| From | Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-19 17:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <proto-EB362F.17572919102015@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #424114 |
In article <edfccab0-0d24-4bd5-9c09-65a0b150ec19@googlegroups.com>, "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: > I recommend reading as much of the blog as you can handle (the style is > quite engaging, at least for this broadly-defined tech geek). There are > other recurring themes- I will now never be comfortable around molecules > with lots of nitrogen atoms in them. > > > Mark L. Fergerson Remember that Texas fertilizer factory explosion. Oklahoma Federal Building bombing, fertilizer and oil, IIRC. Consider some peroxide of nitrogen and fluoride or a peroxide of that. -- Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
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| From | wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 06:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mur0em$780$1@panix3.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #424092 |
In article <XnsA528951D7A943taustingmail@69.16.179.42>,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> said:
> It's used to clean circuit boards in some kinds of electronics
> manufacturing, and to clean uranium oxides from the inside of
> reactor chambers. Industrial use, but not in industrial quantities
> (thankfully).
Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine
trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of Fame...
-- wds (if only there was some way to work
'carcinogenic' into the equation too)
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| From | "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 09:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mur97i$166$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424122 |
On 10/4/15 6:53 AM, William December Starr wrote:
> In article <XnsA528951D7A943taustingmail@69.16.179.42>,
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> said:
>
>> It's used to clean circuit boards in some kinds of electronics
>> manufacturing, and to clean uranium oxides from the inside of
>> reactor chambers. Industrial use, but not in industrial quantities
>> (thankfully).
>
> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine
> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of Fame...
>
> -- wds (if only there was some way to work
> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too)
>
Radiation of that nature IS carcinogenic.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
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| From | BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 13:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mus2j9$ctv$5@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #424126 |
On 10/4/15 6:25 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote: > On 10/4/15 6:53 AM, William December Starr wrote: >> In article <XnsA528951D7A943taustingmail@69.16.179.42>, >> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> said: >> >>> It's used to clean circuit boards in some kinds of electronics >>> manufacturing, and to clean uranium oxides from the inside of >>> reactor chambers. Industrial use, but not in industrial quantities >>> (thankfully). >> >> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine >> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of Fame... >> >> -- wds (if only there was some way to work >> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too) >> > > Radiation of that nature IS carcinogenic. > > Mike Rowe's old show "Dirty Jobs" would have been perfect for this. Maybe his new show, "Somebody's Gotta Do It"? -- Dave Scruggs Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
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| From | Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 10:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA5296E8C3119Dtaustingmail@69.16.179.42> |
| In reply to | #424122 |
wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
news:mur0em$780$1@panix3.panix.com:
> In article <XnsA528951D7A943taustingmail@69.16.179.42>,
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> said:
>
>> It's used to clean circuit boards in some kinds of electronics
>> manufacturing, and to clean uranium oxides from the inside of
>> reactor chambers. Industrial use, but not in industrial
>> quantities (thankfully).
>
> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine
> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of
> Fame...
>
> -- wds (if only there was some way to work
> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too)
I'm given to understand it pays *very* well.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
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| From | leif.roar@dimnakorr.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 21:58 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <yqqdnfNKCZfDeozLnZ2dnUU78Q2dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #424155 |
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: > wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in > news:mur0em$780$1@panix3.panix.com: > >> >> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine >> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of >> Fame... >> >> -- wds (if only there was some way to work >> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too) > > I'm given to understand it pays *very* well. > "Once." -- Leif Roar Moldskred
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| From | ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-05 03:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <d7e89uFbknU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #424185 |
In article <yqqdnfNKCZfDeozLnZ2dnUU78Q2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, <leif.roar@dimnakorr.com> wrote: >Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: >> wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in >> news:mur0em$780$1@panix3.panix.com: >> >>> >>> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine >>> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of >>> Fame... >>> >>> -- wds (if only there was some way to work >>> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too) >> >> I'm given to understand it pays *very* well. >> > >"Once." > Puts me in the mind of this classic bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEYYYMuwCyA
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| From | Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-05 00:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA52A1C2BD6A4taustingmail@69.16.179.42> |
| In reply to | #424186 |
ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan) wrote in news:d7e89uFbknU1
@mid.individual.net:
> In article <yqqdnfNKCZfDeozLnZ2dnUU78Q2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> <leif.roar@dimnakorr.com> wrote:
>>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
>>> news:mur0em$780$1@panix3.panix.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine
>>>> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of
>>>> Fame...
>>>>
>>>> -- wds (if only there was some way to work
>>>> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too)
>>>
>>> I'm given to understand it pays *very* well.
>>>
>>
>>"Once."
>>
>
> Puts me in the mind of this classic bit:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEYYYMuwCyA
>
I was thinking more Danny Vermin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad9mlvyA84E
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-05 05:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.307c0d89db3721e3989b98@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #424186 |
In article <d7e89uFbknU1@mid.individual.net>, ted@loft.tnolan.com says... > > In article <yqqdnfNKCZfDeozLnZ2dnUU78Q2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, > <leif.roar@dimnakorr.com> wrote: > >Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: > >> wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in > >> news:mur0em$780$1@panix3.panix.com: > >> > >>> > >>> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine > >>> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of > >>> Fame... > >>> > >>> -- wds (if only there was some way to work > >>> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too) > >> > >> I'm given to understand it pays *very* well. > >> > > > >"Once." > > > > Puts me in the mind of this classic bit: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEYYYMuwCyA Flashing on Tigger the Obnoxious Tomcat who would at any opportunity eat gunpowder.
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-06 19:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d0291bdgvls4dptb7e3logq1nnil2609rf@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #424155 |
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 10:52:02 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
>news:mur0em$780$1@panix3.panix.com:
>
>> In article <XnsA528951D7A943taustingmail@69.16.179.42>,
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> said:
>>
>>> It's used to clean circuit boards in some kinds of electronics
>>> manufacturing, and to clean uranium oxides from the inside of
>>> reactor chambers. Industrial use, but not in industrial
>>> quantities (thankfully).
>>
>> Cleaning the inside of a nuclear reactor chamber with chlorine
>> trifluoride... wow. If there was a Hazardous Job Hall of
>> Fame...
>>
>> -- wds (if only there was some way to work
>> 'carcinogenic' into the equation too)
>
>I'm given to understand it pays *very* well.
For how long?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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