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Creative Political Systems in SF

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  Creative Political Systems in SF michael <me@here.com> - 2016-05-01 00:26 -0500
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-01 08:01 +0100
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-01 21:29 +0000
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 14:55 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:20 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 20:57 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 19:11 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:47 -0700
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 21:06 -0700
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-03 08:32 +0800
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:33 -0400
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 20:02 +0300
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 20:48 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:51 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-03 08:35 +0800
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 20:14 +0300
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-05-04 12:17 -0700
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 12:30 -0700
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 20:03 +0000
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-04 13:57 -0700
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-05 10:24 +0800
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 22:38 -0400
                      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-05 06:03 +0300
                        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 07:08 -0400
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-05 15:14 -0700
                            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 15:54 -0700
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 17:03 -0700
                            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 20:27 -0400
                        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-06 10:16 +0800
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:15 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-05-01 23:52 -0400
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 21:10 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "cycjec"<cycjec@freeshell.INVALID> - 2016-05-04 13:32 +0000
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-01 07:41 -0500
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 10:24 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 11:23 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 11:56 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 16:57 -0400
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:12 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-02 07:32 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 19:59 +0300
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 17:00 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-10 14:23 +0000
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:05 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-01 18:30 -0500
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF michael <me@here.com> - 2016-05-03 19:32 -0500
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 19:56 +0300
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-07 13:50 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:17 +0200
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 14:15 -0500
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-09 22:56 +0300
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 15:02 -0500
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-09 13:57 -0700
                      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-05-09 21:00 +0000
                        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-09 18:09 -0700
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-09 18:52 -0700
                            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-09 19:35 -0700
                              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-11 21:29 -0400
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 09:37 -0400
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-10 12:06 -0500
                      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 16:06 -0500
                        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-09 19:11 -0500
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 09:36 -0400
                            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-10 12:04 -0500
                              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 13:11 -0400
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-09 21:45 -0600
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-09 21:39 -0600
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 15:26 -0700
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 18:14 -0500
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 13:56 -0600
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-01 13:07 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:10 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 17:00 -0600
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 16:11 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 18:12 -0600
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:26 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-02 08:56 +0800
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:40 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-01 18:21 -0500
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-01 22:57 -0300
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 21:33 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 22:33 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:54 -0400
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-06 17:18 +0000
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-06 17:58 +0000
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:14 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:27 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-05-07 10:05 -0700
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-07 17:29 +0000
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:04 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2016-05-06 23:04 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 04:53 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2016-05-07 20:55 -0700
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 00:07 -0400
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-09 10:11 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-09 10:08 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-07 14:25 -0600
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-08 04:52 -0500
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 15:37 -0700
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-09 02:20 -0700
                      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 17:44 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:06 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-06 22:08 +0000
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-07 00:19 -0300
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-07 00:21 -0300
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:22 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-07 08:37 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-07 14:29 -0600
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 16:34 +0000
                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-10 08:52 +0800
                      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-09 18:48 -0700
                      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-05-09 20:31 -0700
                        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-11 08:33 +0800
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-11 05:42 -0700
                            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-12 08:29 +0800
                              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-12 02:51 -0700
                                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Stephen Allcroft <stephenallcroft@lycos.co.uk> - 2016-05-12 07:59 -0700
                                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-12 15:17 -0700
                                    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 00:35 -0700
                          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-11 18:31 +0000
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 16:30 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-05-07 00:09 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-07 11:48 +0000
                  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:28 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-07 09:43 +0800
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-02 03:55 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 16:56 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-07 19:30 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-02 08:47 +0800
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-02 11:23 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-02 15:18 -0600
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-03 02:11 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-03 21:35 +0100
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 17:44 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-03 03:57 +0000
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-05-03 04:10 +0000
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-06 22:48 +0000
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 11:52 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-04 17:12 -0500
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-04 17:51 -0500
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-05-04 16:56 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 16:45 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:09 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-07 14:40 -0700

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#439830

On 5/9/2016 3:57 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Monday, 9 May 2016 21:02:32 UTC+1, Lynn McGuire  wrote:
>> On 5/9/2016 2:56 PM, Juho Julkunen wrote:
>>> In article <ngqnel$7pu$1@dont-email.me>, lmc@winsim.com says...
>>>>
>>>> On 5/4/2016 11:56 AM, Juho Julkunen wrote:
>>>>> In article <2dgiib5h3fomsv9p68r0e0qkom7oqjvcra@4ax.com>, me@here.com
>>>>> says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2016 18:30:56 -0500, David DeLaney
>>>>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (We've had one 'nuclear disaster' that I know of so far, everyone knows the
>>>>>>> word, Chernobyl. Nobody remembers Three Mile Island any more, and the tsunami-
>>>>>>> caused recent 'disaster' in Japan is relatively minor even at this short time
>>>>>>> later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not quite true, Dave.   Fukushima may not have gotten the press that
>>>>>> TMI and Chernobyl did, but it is still an ongoing, major problem.  It
>>>>>> is complicated by the close proximity to both the ocean and large
>>>>>> population centers, and still has the potential to get out of control
>>>>>> again pretty quickly.    My background is in physics, and I spent
>>>>>> many years working in the power industry.  I'm pro nuclear power, and
>>>>>> Fukushima makes me uneasy.   "relatively minor?"   Not really.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ironically, the moratorium on building new nuclear power plants is
>>>>> partly to blame. The reactors at Fukushima were, I understood, 40 years
>>>>> old, and the company was asking for extension on their operating time.
>>>>> Newer plants would be safer.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anybody could build them anymore, that is. There's an ongoing
>>>>> tragicomic effort to build a new reactor here in Finland. Part of the
>>>>> problem is likely corruption, but lack of current know-how probably
>>>>> plays a role.
>>>>
>>>> No.  The problem was that they were storing old fuel rods in pools on top of the reactor buildings.  The pools went dry due to
>>>> earthquake / tsunami induced leaks and the old rods went critical.
>>>
>>> Is that a common feature in current designs?
>>
>> I have no idea.  I severely hope not.
>
> I have only the vaguest idea of what I've got in my attic.
> I /think/ I can rule out nuclear fuel rods.

Your house would be long gone.  A 1500 ??? 2000 ??? F heat source in your attic would have burned your house down very quickly.

Lynn

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#439842

On 2016-05-09, Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> wrote:
> On 5/9/2016 3:57 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> I have only the vaguest idea of what I've got in my attic.
>> I /think/ I can rule out nuclear fuel rods.
>
> Your house would be long gone.  A 1500 ??? 2000 ??? F heat source in your
> attic would have burned your house down very quickly.

ObSF (since that IS what we're all here for, right?): _The Finches' Fabulous
Furnace_, children's book by Drury from some decades back.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/	-net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#439886

On 5/9/16 8:11 PM, David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2016-05-09, Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> wrote:
>> On 5/9/2016 3:57 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> I have only the vaguest idea of what I've got in my attic.
>>> I /think/ I can rule out nuclear fuel rods.
>>
>> Your house would be long gone.  A 1500 ??? 2000 ??? F heat source in your
>> attic would have burned your house down very quickly.
>
> ObSF (since that IS what we're all here for, right?): _The Finches' Fabulous
> Furnace_, children's book by Drury from some decades back.
>

	Is that the one also titled in a spoilery way "Volcano in the Basement"?


-- 
                      Sea Wasp
                        /^\
                        ;;;	
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com  Blog: 
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

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#439902

On 2016-05-10, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 5/9/16 8:11 PM, David DeLaney wrote:
>> On 2016-05-09, Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> wrote:
>>> Your house would be long gone.  A 1500 ??? 2000 ??? F heat source in your
>>> attic would have burned your house down very quickly.
>>
>> ObSF (since that IS what we're all here for, right?): _The Finches' Fabulous
>> Furnace_, children's book by Drury from some decades back.
>
> 	Is that the one also titled in a spoilery way "Volcano in the Basement"?

I'm guessing it is, though I never saw it with that particular marketing
scheme attached. That is in fact the One Unbelievable Thing in this short SF
novel (well, and the house NOT burning down or melting from the bottom up in
lava).

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/	-net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#439904

On 5/10/16 1:04 PM, David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2016-05-10, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 5/9/16 8:11 PM, David DeLaney wrote:
>>> On 2016-05-09, Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> wrote:
>>>> Your house would be long gone.  A 1500 ??? 2000 ??? F heat source in your
>>>> attic would have burned your house down very quickly.
>>>
>>> ObSF (since that IS what we're all here for, right?): _The Finches' Fabulous
>>> Furnace_, children's book by Drury from some decades back.
>>
>> 	Is that the one also titled in a spoilery way "Volcano in the Basement"?
>
> I'm guessing it is, though I never saw it with that particular marketing
> scheme attached. That is in fact the One Unbelievable Thing in this short SF
> novel (well, and the house NOT burning down or melting from the bottom up in
> lava).
>
> Dave
>

	Well, the book had it as a tiny vent (whole cone was like three feet 
across and one high, IIRC) that mostly just radiated heat. The problem 
with that being that if it was venting that much hot gas (since 
obviously there wasn't sufficient lava exposed to do the job) it 
wouldn't have been breathable.

	Still, I thought it was a fun book, even if there was no way to 
actually justify the existence of a volcano there.



-- 
                      Sea Wasp
                        /^\
                        ;;;	
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com  Blog: 
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

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#439867

Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> wrote:
>On 5/9/2016 2:56 PM, Juho Julkunen wrote:

>>> No.  The problem was that they were storing old fuel rods in pools on top of the reactor buildings.  The pools went dry due to
>>> earthquake / tsunami induced leaks and the old rods went critical.
>>
>> Is that a common feature in current designs?
>
>I have no idea.  I severely hope not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_BWR

The "containment' chapter of the wiki doesn't talk about the storage
pool, but i think most of the "cube" building GE BWRs were pretty much
identical to each other.

(I'm not a nuclear expert, just a widely read member of the general
public -- take my "I think" with appropriate saline.)
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#439865

Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> No.  The problem was that they were storing old fuel rods in pools on top of the reactor buildings.  The pools went dry due to 
>> earthquake / tsunami induced leaks and the old rods went critical.
>
>Is that a common feature in current designs?

There were a LOT of this design of reactor.   The reactor itself was
quite a bit cheaper to build than previous designs and thus was quite
popular.  The layout with the storage pools etc didn't need to be
identical at every installation, but hey, why not.  It's been designed
once, so why not just use the existing blueprints.

Lynn says that the water in the storage ponds leaked away.  I thought
it evaporated -- without new cool water being pumped in and through.
Either way, it went to zero.

But the reactor cores themselves melted down, too.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#439835

On 5/9/16 12:15 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> The problem was that they were storing old fuel rods in pools on top of
> the reactor buildings.

I'd like to read about that. Can you provide a link?

American designs that I've seen show storage pools as deep wells 
adjacent to and descending from the base level.

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#439837

On 5/9/2016 5:26 PM, lal_truckee wrote:
> On 5/9/16 12:15 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> The problem was that they were storing old fuel rods in pools on top of
>> the reactor buildings.
>
> I'd like to read about that. Can you provide a link?
>
> American designs that I've seen show storage pools as deep wells adjacent to and descending from the base level.

One minute of googling got me these:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_units_4,_5_and_6
and
    http://allthingsnuclear.org/dwright/spent-fuel-pools-at-fukushima?

Lynn

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#439305

On 5/1/2016 12:23 PM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> Many political systems of SF are based on the Roman Empire, as is the
> political systems of the USA.
>
> I have long thought this was sort of silly, that mankind would have
> all this technical progress but somehow retrogress in the political
> arena.

And yet we've seen over 2000 years of technical progress and what we see 
politically are monarchies and variations on the Roman Republic model.

>I guess that is what teenage boys want to read about.
>
> The only exception I know about is Iain Banks' "Culture."  The system
> produces abundant goods and sustains itself, so work is obsolete.
> What then?

Banks avoids the question by never describing the government.  He also 
assumes that the organics have all been genetically engineered for 
docility.

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#439306

On 5/1/16 12:56 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>
> Banks avoids the question by never describing the government.  He also
> assumes that the organics have all been genetically engineered for docility.

Docility would naturally develop, I would imagine. Being a Culture 
organic living among Minds and AIs must be something lie being Greek 
when Olympians wandered the land. It must have been a good idea not to 
stir them up.

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#439324

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 3:56:21 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 5/1/2016 12:23 PM, pwrote:
> > Many political systems of SF are based on the Roman Empire, as is the
> > political systems of the USA.
> >
> > I have long thought this was sort of silly, that mankind would have
> > all this technical progress but somehow retrogress in the political
> > arena.
> 
> And yet we've seen over 2000 years of technical progress and what we see 
> politically are monarchies and variations on the Roman Republic model.
> 

I lived in Bali for ten years and saw people living very well under a system that had no resemblance to the Roman Republic model.  Indonesia IS an empire, but local government is truly democratic.  Believe me, it is very different from what we are used to.

> >I guess that is what teenage boys want to read about.
> >
> > The only exception I know about is Iain Banks' "Culture."  The system
> > produces abundant goods and sustains itself, so work is obsolete.
> > What then?
> 
> Banks avoids the question by never describing the government.  He also 
> assumes that the organics have all been genetically engineered for 
> docility.

I read "Look to Windward" and "The Master of Games."  It was a while ago, but I  thought that the economy was automated and the government was democratic.   I don't recall anything about docility, rather I remember the "don't fuck with the Culture" motto and their effectiveness in war.  No other force can withstand them.  I would say that "fierce" is more like it.

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#439344

On 5/1/2016 4:10 PM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 3:56:21 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 5/1/2016 12:23 PM, pwrote:
>>> Many political systems of SF are based on the Roman Empire, as is
>>> the political systems of the USA.
>>>
>>> I have long thought this was sort of silly, that mankind would
>>> have all this technical progress but somehow retrogress in the
>>> political arena.
>>
>> And yet we've seen over 2000 years of technical progress and what
>> we see politically are monarchies and variations on the Roman
>> Republic model.
>>
>
> I lived in Bali for ten years and saw people living very well under a
> system that had no resemblance to the Roman Republic model.

That's beside the point which is that monarchy and bicameral 
legislatures with the "upper" house less democratic than the popular 
assembly have not become obsolete over the course of 2,000 years of 
advancement.


> Indonesia IS an empire, but local government is truly democratic.
> Believe me, it is very different from what we are used to.
>
>>> I guess that is what teenage boys want to read about.
>>>
>>> The only exception I know about is Iain Banks' "Culture."  The
>>> system produces abundant goods and sustains itself, so work is
>>> obsolete. What then?
>>
>> Banks avoids the question by never describing the government.  He
>> also assumes that the organics have all been genetically engineered
>> for docility.
>
> I read "Look to Windward" and "The Master of Games."  It was a while
> ago, but I  thought that the economy was automated and the government
> was democratic.   I don't recall anything about docility, rather I
> remember the "don't fuck with the Culture" motto and their
> effectiveness in war.  No other force can withstand them.  I would
> say that "fierce" is more like it.
>

I said organics.  The Minds are something very different and of course 
they do almost all of the work.

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#439346

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 6:59:57 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 5/1/2016 4:10 PM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I lived in Bali for ten years and saw people living very well under a
> > system that had no resemblance to the Roman Republic model.
> 
> That's beside the point which is that monarchy and bicameral 
> legislatures with the "upper" house less democratic than the popular 
> assembly have not become obsolete over the course of 2,000 years of 
> advancement.
> 
> 

Not obsolete, yes.   Universally adopted, no.

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#439360

On 5/1/2016 5:11 PM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 6:59:57 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 5/1/2016 4:10 PM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I lived in Bali for ten years and saw people living very well under a
>>> system that had no resemblance to the Roman Republic model.
>>
>> That's beside the point which is that monarchy and bicameral
>> legislatures with the "upper" house less democratic than the popular
>> assembly have not become obsolete over the course of 2,000 years of
>> advancement.
>>
>>
>
> Not obsolete, yes.   Universally adopted, no.
>

Still beside the point.

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#439385

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 8:12:25 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 5/1/2016 5:11 PM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 6:59:57 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 5/1/2016 4:10 PM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> I lived in Bali for ten years and saw people living very well under a
> >>> system that had no resemblance to the Roman Republic model.
> >>
> >> That's beside the point which is that monarchy and bicameral
> >> legislatures with the "upper" house less democratic than the popular
> >> assembly have not become obsolete over the course of 2,000 years of
> >> advancement.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Not obsolete, yes.   Universally adopted, no.
> >
> 
> Still beside the point.

If you say so.  

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#439364

On 2/05/2016 6:10 AM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 3:56:21 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 5/1/2016 12:23 PM, pwrote:
>>> Many political systems of SF are based on the Roman Empire, as is
>>> the political systems of the USA.
>>>
>>> I have long thought this was sort of silly, that mankind would
>>> have all this technical progress but somehow retrogress in the
>>> political arena.
>>
>> And yet we've seen over 2000 years of technical progress and what
>> we see politically are monarchies and variations on the Roman
>> Republic model.
>>
>
> I lived in Bali for ten years and saw people living very well under a
> system that had no resemblance to the Roman Republic model.
> Indonesia IS an empire, but local government is truly democratic.
> Believe me, it is very different from what we are used to.

How can you have an empire without an emperor? I'd've thought it was 
more like a federation with the federal president at the top.

-- 
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

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#439386

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 8:56:30 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 2/05/2016 6:10 AM, patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 3:56:21 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> >> On 5/1/2016 12:23 PM, pwrote:
> >>> Many political systems of SF are based on the Roman Empire, as is
> >>> the political systems of the USA.
> >>>
> >>> I have long thought this was sort of silly, that mankind would
> >>> have all this technical progress but somehow retrogress in the
> >>> political arena.
> >>
> >> And yet we've seen over 2000 years of technical progress and what
> >> we see politically are monarchies and variations on the Roman
> >> Republic model.
> >>
> >
> > I lived in Bali for ten years and saw people living very well under a
> > system that had no resemblance to the Roman Republic model.
> > Indonesia IS an empire, but local government is truly democratic.
> > Believe me, it is very different from what we are used to.
> 
> How can you have an empire without an emperor? I'd've thought it was 
> more like a federation with the federal president at the top.
> 

Indonesia was the Dutch East Indies until 1953-60.  The various islands have very different cultures.  Some of them would rather be independent. Nasty wars are fought to keep various parts from seceding.  

The only difference from a true empire is that the dissatisfied, rebellious citizens have citizenship and the vote, for whatever good it does them.  The island of Java has a third of the population and rules the remainder, exploiting their natural resources.   In particular Java has made most of Borneo uninhabitable via logging. 

So...IMO it is more like an empire than a federation.  It began as an empire, not by the consent of the governed.  For half of its history it was a dictatorship, about as close to an emperor as you can get.  

Things are better now.  I was jealous of their 25 political parties.  When I told them about our "lesser evil" voting system they would always laugh.  Vote for evil?  Who could imagine such a thing!

BUT all this is pretty much irrelevant to what I was trying to say.  LOCAL government is quite different from the West.  It is truly democratic.  The federal government is much weaker than ours, so local government is what matters.  Very different.

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#439347

On 2016-05-01, patmpowers@gmail.com <patmpowers@gmail.com> wrote:
> Our current system is part the way there. There are more people than there
> is work to do. This "suplus labor" is supposed to "reinvent themselves".

> Yeah right. It is such a strange problem for a system to have: abundance and
> surplus leads to conflict. Everybody is supposed to work hard, but they
> can't. There is not enough work to be done. I think this is the basis of
> the current unrest.

Cue John Savard in three, two, phi, one...

Dave, will investigate integers for food
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/	-net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#439392

On Sun, 1 May 2016 11:23:40 -0700 (PDT), patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:

> There is not enough work to be done.  

Any housewife will tell you that there is *never* a shortage of work
that needs to be done.  

(There is always a shortage of people able to pay you to do the work
that needs doing.)

My mother went farther, and asserted that there is no such thing as a
labor-saving gadget:  buy one, and you end up working harder than
before.

I have yet to find an exception to her rule.  

Take this here computer thingy I bought to replace my typewriter -- I
never spent all evening every evening poking the keys of my
typewriter.

On the other hand, I never got a fan letter calling me a genius when I
wrote on a typewriter.


-- 
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post. 
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

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