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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #461193 > unrolled thread

Time Travel Is Not Possible

Started byThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
First post2016-12-30 11:19 -0800
Last post2017-01-01 20:45 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 80 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-30 11:19 -0800
    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-30 13:13 -0800
    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-30 13:20 -0800
    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-12-30 21:30 +0000
      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 15:24 -0700
        Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-30 20:25 -0800
          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-30 20:28 -0800
    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-31 13:03 +1100
      How to travel in time Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-12-31 02:38 +0000
        Re: How to travel in time William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-01 20:48 -0800
          Re: How to travel in time Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 00:02 -0600
            Re: How to travel in time Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2017-01-02 13:02 -0800
      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-30 20:21 -0800
        Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-31 15:32 +1100
          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-30 23:05 -0800
            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-31 19:07 +1100
              Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-31 10:51 -0800
                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-01 11:44 +1100
                  Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-31 17:26 -0800
                    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-01 13:10 +1100
                      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Yuri Kretin <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2017-01-01 11:18 -0600
                    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-01 16:48 -0800
                      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-02 12:03 +1100
                        Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-01 21:07 -0800
                          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-02 16:25 +1100
                            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-02 10:19 -0800
                              Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-03 14:54 +1100
                                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-03 21:18 -0800
                                  Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-04 16:45 +1100
                                    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-03 21:53 -0800
                                      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-05 11:38 -0800
                                        Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-06 11:18 +1100
                                          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 16:45 -0700
                                          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-05 17:50 -0800
                                            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-06 13:29 +1100
                                              Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-06 09:13 -0800
                                                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-07 11:57 +1100
                                                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-10 11:34 +1100
                                                  Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-10 09:14 -0800
                                                    Re: Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2017-01-10 17:12 -0500
                                                    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-11 22:40 +1100
                                            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-06 00:37 -0800
                                              Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-06 09:06 -0800
                                              Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 09:18 -0700
                                                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-06 09:24 -0800
                                                  Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 10:00 -0700
                                                Gutless whining (was Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-06 09:50 -0800
                                                  Re: Gutless whining (was Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 10:00 -0700
                                              Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2017-01-08 09:11 -0700
                                                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 11:55 -0600
                                                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2017-02-04 10:12 -0500
                                                  Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2017-02-06 13:27 +0000
                                          Re: Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2017-01-07 21:43 -0500
                                        Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 16:44 -0700
          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-31 12:56 -0500
          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2017-01-01 15:07 +0000
            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-01 16:50 -0800
            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-01 16:52 -0800
    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-31 11:21 -0800
      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2017-01-01 16:00 -0800
      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2017-01-01 23:20 -0700
    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2017-01-01 19:15 -0500
      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-01 16:56 -0800
        Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-02 12:14 +1100
          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-10 09:29 -0800
            Re: Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2017-01-10 14:04 -0500
              Re: Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-10 11:19 -0700
          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-11 23:21 -0800
            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-12 15:11 +0000
              Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-12 08:55 -0800
                Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-12 22:09 +0000
                  Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-13 10:39 -0800
                    Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-13 22:37 +0000
                      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-13 22:41 -0800
                      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-13 23:00 -0800
                        Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-14 15:25 +0000
                          Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-14 10:16 -0800
                            Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-14 21:28 +0000
                      Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-13 23:44 -0800
        Re: Re: Time Travel Is Not Possible Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2017-01-01 20:45 -0500

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#461439

FromGreg Goss <gossg@gossg.org>
Date2017-01-01 23:20 -0700
Message-ID<ecu9pmF93n8U5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#461319
Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> wrote:

>*** I want to travel back in time, so that I can
>get back my girlfriend, my dog and my pickem-up
>truck ...

That's easy.  You play your country music backwards.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#461410

FromMichael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net>
Date2017-01-01 19:15 -0500
Message-ID<fo6j6cl983qptq87vcgee3bi4p8g10nheg@4ax.com>
In reply to#461193
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 11:19:46 -0800, The Starmaker
<starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>lets say
>you travel back in time
>in a time machine and your
>time machine lands on your
>grandfather and kills him...
>
>
>Time Travel Is Not Possible.

And...?

I don't claim (or know) if "time travel" back in time is possible, I'm
just pointing out that your evidence/argument does not preclude it.

Your old "grandfather/father/? paradox" is easily disposed of but
there are some other difficulties which have to be overcome if you
travel to the past and then return to the present.

In your example, if your grandfather is alive in the present before
you leave for the past, the grandfather you fall on in the past dies
but that doesn't affect the grandfather you have when you return to
the present. He is a separate entity. He is just as you left him
(alive). Obviously he could have coincidentally died while you were
"neglecting/relieving" him by traveling in time (lol) but it would
have nothing to do with anything you did in the past to his earlier
entity.

Say you "go" back in time 20 years. This probably requires non-zero
time. Two versions of your grandfather (entities) must exist (a
present and a past version) while you are in transit. Any changes made
in the past normally propagate forward in time at the speed of time (1
second per second). They would normally take 20 years to arrive at
(affect) the present you left.

I believe the only way to experience changes made in the past is to
remain in that past. The present you start from is a different part of
the timeline. The past is also a different part of the timeline. These
two separate timeline segments do not normally interact directly. Btw,
"my" timeline is infinite in both directions. 

As I replied about 20 years ago (in sci.physics) to a similar
statement/question, one way of looking at it is to assign every object
in the universe a location in space (x, y, z). Btw, "my" universe is
an  x, y, z coordinate grid of infinite size (volume). Each location
is specified by a location in space (x, y, z) along with a location in
time (t, s). "s", the second time coordinate, describes its "shift" or
distance from you on the timeline. At s = -20 years on the timeline,
you find the universe as it was 20 years ago. Your "time machine" must
also change x, y, & z (spatial location) since these usually change
with time for anything that's moving (like a planet and everything on
it). The "s" gives your time machine's "time shift" from its start
time (present) and the t gives its current location (in time).

Also, the fact that you are going into the past implies you are going
into a different past (one with a different "s") because, let's face
it, in the original past, no one popped in with a time machine, now
did they.

So when you go back 20 years into the past, your coordinates change
from (x, y, z, t, s) to (x, y, z, t', s'). Normally, when not time
traveling, "s" remains constant and "t" increases at the normal "speed
of time" which is 1 second per second as we are currently traveling
inexorably into the future at 1 second per second.

I've tried to give you a "theory" without resorting to what you said
you didn't want to hear. Your welcome.

P.S. Killing your grandfather won't help - lol.

Mike
See you at the show trials - lol.
---------------------------------------------------
Michael J. Strickland			Reston, VA
---------------------------------------------------

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#461415

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-01 16:56 -0800
Message-ID<5869A521.5FCE@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#461410
Michael J. Strickland wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 11:19:46 -0800, The Starmaker
> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
> >lets say
> >you travel back in time
> >in a time machine and your
> >time machine lands on your
> >grandfather and kills him...
> >
> >
> >Time Travel Is Not Possible.
> 
> And...?
> 
> I don't claim (or know) if "time travel" back in time is possible, I'm
> just pointing out that your evidence/argument does not preclude it.
> 
> Your old "grandfather/father/? paradox" is easily disposed of but
> there are some other difficulties which have to be overcome if you
> travel to the past and then return to the present.
> 
> In your example, if your grandfather is alive in the present before
> you leave for the past, the grandfather you fall on in the past dies
> but that doesn't affect the grandfather you have when you return to
> the present. He is a separate entity. He is just as you left him
> (alive). Obviously he could have coincidentally died while you were
> "neglecting/relieving" him by traveling in time (lol) but it would
> have nothing to do with anything you did in the past to his earlier
> entity.

THAT IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I EVER HEARD! 


I guess it gets more ridiculous if i continue reading..(if you follow
the second law)



> 
> Say you "go" back in time 20 years. This probably requires non-zero
> time. Two versions of your grandfather (entities) must exist (a
> present and a past version) while you are in transit. Any changes made
> in the past normally propagate forward in time at the speed of time (1
> second per second). They would normally take 20 years to arrive at
> (affect) the present you left.
> 
> I believe the only way to experience changes made in the past is to
> remain in that past. The present you start from is a different part of
> the timeline. The past is also a different part of the timeline. These
> two separate timeline segments do not normally interact directly. Btw,
> "my" timeline is infinite in both directions.
> 
> As I replied about 20 years ago (in sci.physics) to a similar
> statement/question, one way of looking at it is to assign every object
> in the universe a location in space (x, y, z). Btw, "my" universe is
> an  x, y, z coordinate grid of infinite size (volume). Each location
> is specified by a location in space (x, y, z) along with a location in
> time (t, s). "s", the second time coordinate, describes its "shift" or
> distance from you on the timeline. At s = -20 years on the timeline,
> you find the universe as it was 20 years ago. Your "time machine" must
> also change x, y, & z (spatial location) since these usually change
> with time for anything that's moving (like a planet and everything on
> it). The "s" gives your time machine's "time shift" from its start
> time (present) and the t gives its current location (in time).
> 
> Also, the fact that you are going into the past implies you are going
> into a different past (one with a different "s") because, let's face
> it, in the original past, no one popped in with a time machine, now
> did they.
> 
> So when you go back 20 years into the past, your coordinates change
> from (x, y, z, t, s) to (x, y, z, t', s'). Normally, when not time
> traveling, "s" remains constant and "t" increases at the normal "speed
> of time" which is 1 second per second as we are currently traveling
> inexorably into the future at 1 second per second.
> 
> I've tried to give you a "theory" without resorting to what you said
> you didn't want to hear. Your welcome.
> 
> P.S. Killing your grandfather won't help - lol.
> 
> Mike
> See you at the show trials - lol.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Michael J. Strickland                   Reston, VA
> ---------------------------------------------------

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#461418

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2017-01-02 12:14 +1100
Message-ID<ectnrnF5fvnU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#461415
On 2/01/2017 11:56 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Michael J. Strickland wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 11:19:46 -0800, The Starmaker
>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> lets say
>>> you travel back in time
>>> in a time machine and your
>>> time machine lands on your
>>> grandfather and kills him...
>>>
>>>
>>> Time Travel Is Not Possible.
>>
>> And...?
>>
>> I don't claim (or know) if "time travel" back in time is possible, I'm
>> just pointing out that your evidence/argument does not preclude it.
>>
>> Your old "grandfather/father/? paradox" is easily disposed of but
>> there are some other difficulties which have to be overcome if you
>> travel to the past and then return to the present.
>>
>> In your example, if your grandfather is alive in the present before
>> you leave for the past, the grandfather you fall on in the past dies
>> but that doesn't affect the grandfather you have when you return to
>> the present. He is a separate entity. He is just as you left him
>> (alive). Obviously he could have coincidentally died while you were
>> "neglecting/relieving" him by traveling in time (lol) but it would
>> have nothing to do with anything you did in the past to his earlier
>> entity.
>
> THAT IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I EVER HEARD!

It's the outcome if a time traveller causes a branch in the past, but 
returns to his original time line when he goes back to the future.

Such behaviour could also explain the lack of time travellers visiting 
us from the future - it would just mean that we are on the original time 
line for all of them.

Sylvia.


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#462026

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-10 09:29 -0800
Message-ID<58751A0B.6D@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#461418
Sylvia Else wrote:
> 
> On 10/01/2017 8:20 AM, Sharilyn Vore wrote:
> > Sylvia Else wrote:
> >
> >>>> It's the outcome if a time traveller causes a branch in the past, but
> >>>> returns to his original time line when he goes back to the future.
> >>>
> >>> Cant go back to a future. Absurd contradiction.
> >>>
> >> Are you under the impression that arguing about semantics (or even just
> >> the meaning of words) contributes anything to our knowledge in this
> >> area?
> >
> > That's not semantics, lady. Read again. The thing is absurd, end of story.
> >
> 
> You're not advancing your position very much. What exactly is it that
> you think is absurd, and why?
> 
> Sylvia.


Ever heard the expression...never look back?



It's very simple, traveling back in time is not possible because Nature does not allow it.


It doesn't even encourage you to look back...

and if you try..bad things happen.

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#462036

FromMichael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net>
Date2017-01-10 14:04 -0500
Message-ID<cv9a7clkknm83dov2cktheldt9p6f4seur@4ax.com>
In reply to#462026
...

>It's very simple, traveling back in time is not possible because Nature does not allow it.

Starmaker:

You seem to have some sort of "a priori" objection to the possibility
of time travel backward (and forward?).

You say nature does not allow it, but we don't know the entirety of
what nature does and does not allow currently not to mention what it
might allow in the future. Some of nature (e.g. the future) has yet to
exist. You could say that the whole point of having science/physics is
to discover some inviolable "rules" that do not change in time. I
agree with that goal, but we don't know that we have discovered all of
those "rules" and/or that we have specified them precisely (i.e got
them all correct).

Let me put it this way. Suppose I am designing a "nature/universe" or
watching it be designed. Time travel adds options so I would include
it if I could. Being able to travel in time does not mean anyone or
anything must travel in time so the consistency of the
universe/timeline could be safeguarded by putting restrictions on time
travel (backward) without completely eliminating it. I've spent
considerable time trying to determine what those restrictions might be
in order to maintain a consistent timeline/universe.

>It doesn't even encourage you to look back...
>
>and if you try..bad things happen.

Is one of the "bad things" that happen when you look back, learning
and refining knowledge obtained in the past? Would you rather not be
able to "look back" (i.e. have memories) that help you avoid repeating
past mistakes so that you can have only "good things happening"
constantly. How do you measure the "goodness" of these present things
if you have no memory of "bad things" to compare them too (lol).

Mike
See you at the show trials - lol.
---------------------------------------------------
Michael J. Strickland			Reston, VA
---------------------------------------------------

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#462038

FromGutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com>
Date2017-01-10 11:19 -0700
Message-ID<XnsA6F9734838678taustingmail@69.16.179.42>
In reply to#462036
You are arguing with a retard who likely can't tie his own shows.

You're feeding the troll.

-- 
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland: 
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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#462175

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-11 23:21 -0800
Message-ID<58772E85.4B09@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#461418
Ned Latham wrote:
> 
> mlwozniak wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > >
> > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> >
> > So is the distance.
> 
> Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> 
> > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> 
> Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.

Isn't space and time the same....space? 


If the earth is traveling around in circles..
then i'm traveling in space...
but in circles...

that's why it's the same day every day...today.

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#462192

FromNed Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
Date2017-01-12 15:11 +0000
Message-ID<slrno7f75o.ekf.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
In reply to#462175
The Starmaker wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > >
> > > So is the distance.
> >
> > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> >
> > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> >
> > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
>
> Isn't space and time the same....space?

Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
different than space.

> If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> then i'm traveling in space...
> but in circles...

You do that standing still.

> that's why it's the same day every day...today.

Wrong.

Todays' today today;
Today's tomorrow yesterday;
Today's yesterday tomorrow;
Tomorrow's today tomorrow.

...

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#462205

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-12 08:55 -0800
Message-ID<5877B4EC.4771@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#462192
Ned Latham wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > >
> > > > So is the distance.
> > >
> > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > >
> > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > >
> > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> >
> > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> 
> Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> different than space.
> 
> > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > then i'm traveling in space...
> > but in circles...
> 
> You do that standing still.
> 
> > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> Todays' today today;
> Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> 
> ...

it's today now..


come back tomorrow, it's still be today.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462251

FromNed Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
Date2017-01-12 22:09 +0000
Message-ID<slrno7fvki.p41.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
In reply to#462205
The Starmaker wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > >
> > > > > So is the distance.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > >
> > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > >
> > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > >
> > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> >
> > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > different than space.
> >
> > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > but in circles...
> >
> > You do that standing still.
> >
> > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> >
> > Wrong.
> >
> > Todays' today today;
> > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> >
> > ...
>
> it's today now..

In your mind.

> come back tomorrow, it's still be today.

In your mind.

You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
of man. And the occasional wannbe.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462324

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-13 10:39 -0800
Message-ID<58791EF0.3C31@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#462251
Ned Latham wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > >
> > > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > > different than space.
> > >
> > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > but in circles...
> > >
> > > You do that standing still.
> > >
> > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > >
> > > Wrong.
> > >
> > > Todays' today today;
> > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > >
> > > ...
> >
> > it's today now..
> 
> In your mind.
> 
> > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> 
> In your mind.
> 
> You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
> of man. And the occasional wannbe.


I just looked again, it's still today...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462366

FromNed Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
Date2017-01-13 22:37 +0000
Message-ID<slrno7ilko.u6q.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
In reply to#462324
The Starmaker wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > > >
> > > > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > > > different than space.
> > > >
> > > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > > but in circles...
> > > >
> > > > You do that standing still.
> > > >
> > > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Todays' today today;
> > > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > >
> > > it's today now..
> > 
> > In your mind.
> > 
> > > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> > 
> > In your mind.
> > 
> > You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
> > of man. And the occasional wannbe.
>
> I just looked again, it's still today...

In your mind.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462403

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-13 22:41 -0800
Message-ID<5879C824.335F@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#462366
Ned Latham wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > > > > different than space.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > > > but in circles...
> > > > >
> > > > > You do that standing still.
> > > > >
> > > > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays' today today;
> > > > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > it's today now..
> > >
> > > In your mind.
> > >
> > > > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> > >
> > > In your mind.
> > >
> > > You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
> > > of man. And the occasional wannbe.
> >
> > I just looked again, it's still today...
> 
> In your mind.

well, tommorow never seems to come...

everytime i look, it's today.

it's always....now.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462406

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-13 23:00 -0800
Message-ID<5879CC8E.7706@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#462366
Ned Latham wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > > > > different than space.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > > > but in circles...
> > > > >
> > > > > You do that standing still.
> > > > >
> > > > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays' today today;
> > > > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > it's today now..
> > >
> > > In your mind.
> > >
> > > > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> > >
> > > In your mind.
> > >
> > > You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
> > > of man. And the occasional wannbe.
> >
> > I just looked again, it's still today...
> 
> In your mind.



No, I don't get it.


It's either in my mind, or...it is independent of the observer, which is
it????

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462417

FromNed Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
Date2017-01-14 15:25 +0000
Message-ID<slrno7kgmp.n9f.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
In reply to#462406
The Starmaker wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > > > > > different than space.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > > > > but in circles...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You do that standing still.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Todays' today today;
> > > > > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > > > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > > > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > it's today now..
> > > >
> > > > In your mind.
> > > >
> > > > > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> > > >
> > > > In your mind.
> > > >
> > > > You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
> > > > of man. And the occasional wannbe.
> > >
> > > I just looked again, it's still today...
> > 
> > In your mind.
>
> No, I don't get it.

That's because it's in your mind.

> It's either in my mind,

That's it: in your nind.

> or...it is independent of the observer,

Not possible. It's all in the mind.

> which is it????

In your mind.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462422

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-14 10:16 -0800
Message-ID<587A6AEE.2BF6@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#462417
Ned Latham wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > > > > > > different than space.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > > > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > > > > > but in circles...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You do that standing still.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Todays' today today;
> > > > > > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > > > > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > > > > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > it's today now..
> > > > >
> > > > > In your mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> > > > >
> > > > > In your mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
> > > > > of man. And the occasional wannbe.
> > > >
> > > > I just looked again, it's still today...
> > >
> > > In your mind.
> >
> > No, I don't get it.
> 
> That's because it's in your mind.
> 
> > It's either in my mind,
> 
> That's it: in your nind.
> 
> > or...it is independent of the observer,
> 
> Not possible. It's all in the mind.
> 
> > which is it????
> 
> In your mind.


So, what you are saying is that  Time is not physics, it's psychology, psychological, physlosphy.


Then, what is this Time twin paradox talk about...older and younger twins...that's phyics isn't it?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462439

FromNed Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
Date2017-01-14 21:28 +0000
Message-ID<slrno7l5vl.j9.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>
In reply to#462422
The Starmaker wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the
> > > > > > > > > > idea of number travel.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel.
> > > > > > > > > > Any distance at all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Of course not. Even the comedian One Stone had to
> > > > > > > > postulate time as different than space.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > > > > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > > > > > > but in circles...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You do that standing still.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wrong.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Todays' today today;
> > > > > > > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > > > > > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > > > > > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > it's today now..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In your mind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In your mind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in
> > > > > > the mind of man. And the occasional wannbe.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just looked again, it's still today...
> > > >
> > > > In your mind.
> > >
> > > No, I don't get it.
> > 
> > That's because it's in your mind.
> > 
> > > It's either in my mind,
> > 
> > That's it: in your nind.
> > 
> > > or...it is independent of the observer,
> > 
> > Not possible. It's all in the mind.
> > 
> > > which is it????
> > 
> > In your mind.
>
> So, what you are saying is that Time is not physics,

Yep.

> it's psychology, psychological, physlosphy.

No, no, and no (love that third one). Like number, it is a mental
tool we use for organizing our weltanshaung.

> Then, what is this Time twin paradox talk about...older and younger
> twins...that's phyics isn't it?

What paradox? Twins don't emerge from the birth canal simultaneously.

Ned

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#462408

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2017-01-13 23:44 -0800
Message-ID<5879D6F3.331F@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#462366
Ned Latham wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > mlwozniak wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Twaddle. Time is a noumenon. It has no substance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So is the distance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong. Distance is length, a dimension of space.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The idea of time travel is as absurd as the idea of number travel.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nothing absurd about space travel. Any distance at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Isn't space and time the same....space?
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course not. Evewn the comedian One Stone had to postulate time as
> > > > > different than space.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If the earth is traveling around in circles..
> > > > > > then i'm traveling in space...
> > > > > > but in circles...
> > > > >
> > > > > You do that standing still.
> > > > >
> > > > > > that's why it's the same day every day...today.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays' today today;
> > > > > Today's tomorrow yesterday;
> > > > > Today's yesterday tomorrow;
> > > > > Tomorrow's today tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > it's today now..
> > >
> > > In your mind.
> > >
> > > > come back tomorrow, it's still be today.
> > >
> > > In your mind.
> > >
> > > You just don't get it, do you? It's what I said: all in the mind
> > > of man. And the occasional wannbe.
> >
> > I just looked again, it's still today...
> 
> In your mind.


My clock tells me the time it is now...i don't have a....tomorrow clock.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#461423

FromMichael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net>
Date2017-01-01 20:45 -0500
Message-ID<mcbj6cl8igf2c53jbva1thum67uo8lkijg@4ax.com>
In reply to#461415
On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 16:56:01 -0800, The Starmaker
<starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Michael J. Strickland wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 11:19:46 -0800, The Starmaker
>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >lets say
>> >you travel back in time
>> >in a time machine and your
>> >time machine lands on your
>> >grandfather and kills him...
>> >
>> >
>> >Time Travel Is Not Possible.
>> 
>> And...?
>> 
>> I don't claim (or know) if "time travel" back in time is possible, I'm
>> just pointing out that your evidence/argument does not preclude it.
>> 
>> Your old "grandfather/father/? paradox" is easily disposed of but
>> there are some other difficulties which have to be overcome if you
>> travel to the past and then return to the present.
>> 
>> In your example, if your grandfather is alive in the present before
>> you leave for the past, the grandfather you fall on in the past dies
>> but that doesn't affect the grandfather you have when you return to
>> the present. He is a separate entity. He is just as you left him
>> (alive). Obviously he could have coincidentally died while you were
>> "neglecting/relieving" him by traveling in time (lol) but it would
>> have nothing to do with anything you did in the past to his earlier
>> entity.
>
>THAT IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I EVER HEARD! 
>
>
>I guess it gets more ridiculous if i continue reading..(if you follow
>the second law)

Second Law of Thermodynamics (Google/Wikipedia):

The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an
isolated system always increases over time, or remains constant in
ideal cases where the system is in a steady state or undergoing a
reversible process.


Entropy decreases with time regularly in closed systems (non-infinite
regions enclosing a time machine and its "range" of operation). The
only price is some energy (provided by maybe a ... time machine?).

Maybe we would call it a "Negative Entropy Machine" for the
imagination deficient such as you Mr. "RIDICULOUS" (lol).

My theory avoids those worrisome and terrifying possibilities of
someone going into the past and destroying something you cherish (like
your glorious record of total bullshit, regurgitated half-truths, and
invalid assumptions censored by whatever brand of self-brainwashing
you have willingly inflicted on yourself - lol.


----------------------------------------------------------------
My canned last word post:

This is my last post/reply on this subject so if you want the last
word, read no further. 

Please don't construe this as a sign of surrender or defeat. Let's
just consider it a temporary truce and we can resume the "debate"
later on another thread/topic.

Feel free to add any number of additional posts below. This is just a
notice that I will not read them. I'm sure any wider audience that may
be interested will be highly entertained as you "vanquish" me in my
absence (lol).

See you at the show trials - lol.
---------------------------------------------------
Michael J. Strickland			Reston, VA
---------------------------------------------------

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