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The Fourth Dimension

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  The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 12:04 -0700
    Re: The Fourth Dimension gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-09-17 14:07 -0500
    Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 13:31 -0700
    Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 14:40 -0700
      Re: The Fourth Dimension benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 01:05 -0400
        Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 22:42 -0700
        Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 23:01 -0700
          Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:40 +0200
            Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-17 23:59 -0700
              Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 10:28 +0200
              Re: The Fourth Dimension The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-18 10:56 -0700
    Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 08:20 +0200
      Re: The Fourth Dimension Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 11:19 +0200

#422954 — The Fourth Dimension

Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?

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#422957

On 9/17/2015 2:04 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
>

Al Gore.

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#422963

Koobee Wublee wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 12:04:28 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> > Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells
> 
> In
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Machine



Are you saying that Albert Einstein got his relativity Time and Fourth Dimension idea from reading a ...science fiction book????

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#422965

Sam Wormley wrote:
> 
> On 9/17/15 2:04 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
> >
> 
>    Nature is the way she is, and we humans are, through observation and
>    experiment discovering how she works. Three spacial and one temporal
>    dimension fit the observations.
> 


Sorry, I'm not aware of any "observation and experiment" of  Three
spacial and one temporal
dimension fit *any* observations or experiments.


Are you gettin your info from...a science fiction story? I didn't read
the book The Time Machine. I saw it on teevee..

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#422970

On 09/17/2015 05:40 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Sam Wormley wrote:
>>
>> On 9/17/15 2:04 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>> Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
>>>
>>
>>     Nature is the way she is, and we humans are, through observation and
>>     experiment discovering how she works. Three spacial and one temporal
>>     dimension fit the observations.
>>
>
>
> Sorry, I'm not aware of any "observation and experiment" of  Three
> spacial and one temporal
> dimension fit *any* observations or experiments.
>
>
> Are you gettin your info from...a science fiction story? I didn't read
> the book The Time Machine. I saw it on teevee..

It's true "Starmaker". A rotating umbrella can make you travel time!

Go read the book "flatland" and then come back here and discuss dimensions.



-- 
         ___           ___           ___            ___
        /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
       /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
      /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
     /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
    /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
    \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
     \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
      \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
       \_:/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
                      \/__/         \/__/

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#422971

benj wrote:
> 
> On 09/17/2015 05:40 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Sam Wormley wrote:
> >>
> >> On 9/17/15 2:04 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>> Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
> >>>
> >>
> >>     Nature is the way she is, and we humans are, through observation and
> >>     experiment discovering how she works. Three spacial and one temporal
> >>     dimension fit the observations.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not aware of any "observation and experiment" of  Three
> > spacial and one temporal
> > dimension fit *any* observations or experiments.
> >
> >
> > Are you gettin your info from...a science fiction story? I didn't read
> > the book The Time Machine. I saw it on teevee..
> 
> It's true "Starmaker". A rotating umbrella can make you travel time!
> 
> Go read the book "flatland" and then come back here and discuss dimensions.


Haven't you heard, i don't read 'science fiction' books...

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#422973

benj wrote:
> 
> On 09/17/2015 05:40 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Sam Wormley wrote:
> >>
> >> On 9/17/15 2:04 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>> Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
> >>>
> >>
> >>     Nature is the way she is, and we humans are, through observation and
> >>     experiment discovering how she works. Three spacial and one temporal
> >>     dimension fit the observations.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not aware of any "observation and experiment" of  Three
> > spacial and one temporal
> > dimension fit *any* observations or experiments.
> >
> >
> > Are you gettin your info from...a science fiction story? I didn't read
> > the book The Time Machine. I saw it on teevee..
> 
> It's true "Starmaker". A rotating umbrella can make you travel time!
> 
> Go read the book "flatland" and then come back here and discuss dimensions.


It's about only three dimensions, not a fourth and Time.


Go read the book "flatland" and then come back here ...

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#422975

Dne 18/09/2015 v 08:01 The Starmaker napsal(a):

> 
> It's about only three dimensions, not a fourth and Time.
> 
Where did you come to 4 dimensions and time ?
where are they used ?

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#422976

Poutnik wrote:
> 
> Dne 18/09/2015 v 08:01 The Starmaker napsal(a):
> 
> >
> > It's about only three dimensions, not a fourth and Time.
> >
> Where did you come to 4 dimensions and time ?
> where are they used ?
> 


I asked the question: Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that Time is in it?


The reason why I asked is because timeline wise, the earliest mentioned was H.G. Wells in his
science fiction book The Time Machine, 1895. The, next in the timeline is Albert Einstein relativity ten lears later 1905.



Now, I'm wondering timeline wise, who was before H.G. Wells? Or, is it a fact this whole 
"4 dimensions and time" the foundation is just ...science fiction.


In other words, 4 dimensions and time is not Science, it's science fiction.


Unelss of course you can come up with '4 dimensions and time' before H.G. Wells. 

Who invented 4 dimensions and time?


I'll repeat the original question: "Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?" 


Was it H.G Wells, or was it somebody before him?

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#422977

On 09/18/2015 08:59 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Poutnik wrote:
>>
>>>
>> Where did you come to 4 dimensions and time ?
>> where are they used ?
> 
> I asked the question: Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that Time is in it?

what exactly do you mean by "fourth dimension and that Time is in it"


> 
> In other words, 4 dimensions and time is not Science, it's science fiction.

I agree, it's science fiction that neither SR nor GR uses.
SR/GR uses 4 dimensions, when the fourth dimension is time,
recalculated to path length of the light in vacuum.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes a great man humble, but a small man arrogant.

Eventual Wikipedia articles are provided with intention
of a convenient reference, not as an evidence, argument,
and usually not as a primary source of my knowledge.

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#423004

Sam Wormley wrote:
> 
> On 9/18/15 1:59 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Wells in his science fiction book The Time Machine, 1895.
> 
>    Just hold on a minute -- you said in an earlier posting that you don't
>    read science fiction books.
> 
>    Which is it, do you or don't you?


I don't read sceince fiction books or any fiction books for that matter.

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#422974

Dne 17/09/2015 v 21:04 The Starmaker napsal(a):

> Who invented this thing called the fourth dimension and that time is in it?
> 
One popular SR book ( Spacetime physics I guess )

comes with the analogy
there was once upon the time a weird city,
where East West distances were measured in metres,
while North south ones in the sacred units.

And that there were 2 groups of surveyors that hated each other.
the day one using compass, the night one using stars.

And that was problem, as "day north" was not "night north"

The data and maps of both groups were not compatible,
as N-S and E-W distances they measured did not fit each other
and maps of the city were rotated.

It was a big problem, until came one surveyor,
that secretly studied in both surveyor schools.

And this guy came with deadly heretic idea
to recalculate the value in sacred units into meters.

Using unified calculations he found interesting invariants ,
values being the same in both systems, and transformations,
comparing data from both groups.

It is funny, until one realizes,
this weird city is Earth
the sacred unit is second.
Not fitting distances are length contraction and time dilation
Not fitting maps are reality in different inertial frames
and the transformation is the Lorentz one.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#422978

On 09/18/2015 08:20 AM, Poutnik wrote:

P.S.:
Citizens in that weird city could not calculate general distances
as invariant wrt used surveyor system
as we can do

D = sqrt( (delta_x)2 + (delta_y)2 ) .

They could just calculate differences in N-S and E-W coordinates
that differ for different surveyor systems.

But with smart guy invention,
they could do it after using
D = sqrt((E-W-metres)2 + (N-S-sacred-units . meters_per_sacred_unit)2 )

---
Similarly, our space-intervals and time-intervals differs
in different surveyor systems of different inertial frames.

We are with our different inertial frames in the similar position
as the weird city with their metering and surveying systems.
the values do not match each other.

But if we recalculate sacred unit 1s to equivalent length 299 792 458 m
and if we define this length as the 4th dimension of now called
space-time, we can define space-time interval
sqrt ( delta_x^2 + delta_y^2 + delta_z^2 - c^2. delta_t^2 ).

This distance is invariant wrt Lorentz transformation,
and not depend on used inertial system.

Similarly as distance D is invariant
wrt to translation and rotation of used cartesian coordinates.



-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes a great man humble, but a small man arrogant.

Eventual Wikipedia articles are provided with intention
of a convenient reference, not as an evidence, argument,
and usually not as a primary source of my knowledge.

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